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Thread: Kaaren ragland

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    Kaaren ragland

    Kaaren Ragland has keeping The Supremes live and alive since the late 70s
    by PAUL CASHMERE on FEBRUARY 8, 2019

    Since the late 70s Kaaren Ragland has been performing the song of The Supremes, firstly with Supremes Mary Wilson, and since 1989 without her and she is still doing so with The Sound of the Supremes.


    Wilson left in 1989 but Kaaren continued. Kareen tells noise11.com, “I came over [[to Australia) with [[Mary Wilson) in the middle of 89 on the Legends of Rock tour for MTV with Chuck Berry and the Everly Brothers. That was her last real tour doing these hits. She is out there still doing her solo career”.

    Initially Mary Wilson fought Kaaren’s right to perform her Supremes show. “She felt a little intimated because we had become so successful,” Kaaren said. “We all went to court and the Judge said ‘You can call yourself this, you can call yourself that’. She tried to suspend all the former Supremes which is kind of silly looking back at it. We prevailed because Motown and Universal liked the fact that we were still performing so they promoted our shows. They liked that we were still performing the material and doing a good job of it, so here we are”.

    Kaaren’s incarnation of The Supremes almost didn’t happen. “I never knew Diana [[Ross) because she left in 1970 to pursue a movie career and they moved Motown around that time to LA from Detroit. I came into play in the late 70s. So many people wanted to hear the material when they wanted to suspend it. A promoter in England decided to tour us and it was a wonderful experience,” she said.

    40 years on, and another Australian tour is on the way. “I would be bored to tears if I stopped,” Kaaren said. “I love what I do. It is such a privilege to perform and to travel to different countries. It is wonderful”.






    http://www.noise11.com/news/kaaren-r...e-70s-20190208

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    A lot of typo’s in there but it’s her side of the story

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Kaaren Ragland has keeping The Supremes live and alive since the late 70s
    by PAUL CASHMERE on FEBRUARY 8, 2019

    Since the late 70s Kaaren Ragland has been performing the song of The Supremes, firstly with Supremes Mary Wilson, and since 1989 without her and she is still doing so with The Sound of the Supremes.


    Wilson left in 1989 but Kaaren continued. Kareen tells noise11.com, “I came over [[to Australia) with [[Mary Wilson) in the middle of 89 on the Legends of Rock tour for MTV with Chuck Berry and the Everly Brothers. That was her last real tour doing these hits. She is out there still doing her solo career”.

    Initially Mary Wilson fought Kaaren’s right to perform her Supremes show. “She felt a little intimated because we had become so successful,” Kaaren said. “We all went to court and the Judge said ‘You can call yourself this, you can call yourself that’. She tried to suspend all the former Supremes which is kind of silly looking back at it. We prevailed because Motown and Universal liked the fact that we were still performing so they promoted our shows. They liked that we were still performing the material and doing a good job of it, so here we are”.

    Kaaren’s incarnation of The Supremes almost didn’t happen. “I never knew Diana [[Ross) because she left in 1970 to pursue a movie career and they moved Motown around that time to LA from Detroit. I came into play in the late 70s. So many people wanted to hear the material when they wanted to suspend it. A promoter in England decided to tour us and it was a wonderful experience,” she said.

    40 years on, and another Australian tour is on the way. “I would be bored to tears if I stopped,” Kaaren said. “I love what I do. It is such a privilege to perform and to travel to different countries. It is wonderful”.






    http://www.noise11.com/news/kaaren-r...e-70s-20190208
    Whilst i am in no doubt that Karen's voice is better suited to the Supremes tunes than Mary Wilson's ever was i am not sure if i approve of this. No doubting her talent though.

  4. #4
    *yawn*
    It's funny how in her interviews, she words things in such a way to mislead readers. I believe it's called lying by omission. Even going as far as saying, "I never knew Diana Ross because she left in 1970 and they moved Motown from Detroit to LA..." Kaaren never was a Motown artist. I'm also surprised that she goes as far to say that Motown and Universal endorse her group. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Her legacy will always be that of belonging to a Supremes tribute group and singing backup for a former Supreme, but never a Supreme herself.

  5. #5
    Yawn indeed. I couldn't care less if she stood in for Alvin of the Chipmunks! She is of no importance whatsoever!

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    It's amazing how many half truths and lies you can fit into one interview.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    *yawn*
    It's funny how in her interviews, she words things in such a way to mislead readers. I believe it's called lying by omission. Even going as far as saying, "I never knew Diana Ross because she left in 1970 and they moved Motown from Detroit to LA..." Kaaren never was a Motown artist. I'm also surprised that she goes as far to say that Motown and Universal endorse her group. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Her legacy will always be that of belonging to a Supremes tribute group and singing backup for a former Supreme, but never a Supreme herself.
    ABSOLUTELY. She may have talent [[not interested in watching the video, thanks), but her career has been built upon co-opting someone else’s legacy. And she’s definitely twisting her story so that it implies and omits things to give a certain impression to the *average* reader. She was an employee of Mary Wilson and her company—not Motown, not a Supreme...not interested. Reading this, she strikes me as the type who would say during a concert, “we recorded this song in 1966...” She’s just Shantel Baker with a better wardrobe—and that’s not saying much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    It's amazing how many half truths and lies you can fit into one interview.
    Ever listened to the current “President” of the United States?

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    Kaaren never was a Motown artist. I'm also surprised that she goes as far to say that Motown and Universal endorse her group. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Her legacy will always be that of belonging to a Supremes tribute group and singing backup for a former Supreme, but never a Supreme herself.
    Clearly she ignored Universal's statement on the last page of the Final Sessions collection listing the nine ladies who were Supreme.

    I always found it funny a court ruled she had the right to call herself a Supreme, yet Motown owns the name and she was never signed to the label.

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    Let’s not forget Shantel said in an interview she took Freda Payne’s place. I think Universal needs to look at its documents more closely!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    Clearly she ignored Universal's statement on the last page of the Final Sessions collection listing the nine ladies who were Supreme.

    I always found it funny a court ruled she had the right to call herself a Supreme, yet Motown owns the name and she was never signed to the label.
    I believe all the Court relied on was that she was in the group for a while and the group was called some version of Supremes, Mary Wilson's Supremes, Mary Wilson and the Supremes and she was held out to the public as a Supreme - so she was entitled to call herself a Supreme. It's much like all the guys that have gone through the Temptations with just Otis Williams - they seem to call themselves Temptations.

    And I've heard this story before - that in the 80's and 90's, Motown didn't mind a bunch of Supremes groups around because it sold REAL Supremes CDs. And of course now, there are next to no sales.

    For people generally, the Supremes disappeared from public view around 1976 or 1977 at the latest; and if you know anything, you find it a bit odd that some person who was a Supreme in a time period after that [[when the Supremes had pretty much disappeared from public view) and who nobody really knows, can be a Supreme.

    Maybe she can sing reasonably; I haven't listened in years. And maybe she sounds more like the Supremes sound than Mary - it wouldn't be hard.

    But she had nothing REAL to do with them. She just participated for a short time in an effort to patch things up and wind things down and move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    I believe all the Court relied on was that she was in the group for a while and the group was called some version of Supremes, Mary Wilson's Supremes, Mary Wilson and the Supremes and she was held out to the public as a Supreme - so she was entitled to call herself a Supreme. It's much like all the guys that have gone through the Temptations with just Otis Williams - they seem to call themselves Temptations.

    And I've heard this story before - that in the 80's and 90's, Motown didn't mind a bunch of Supremes groups around because it sold REAL Supremes CDs. And of course now, there are next to no sales.

    For people generally, the Supremes disappeared from public view around 1976 or 1977 at the latest; and if you know anything, you find it a bit odd that some person who was a Supreme in a time period after that [[when the Supremes had pretty much disappeared from public view) and who nobody really knows, can be a Supreme.

    Maybe she can sing reasonably; I haven't listened in years. And maybe she sounds more like the Supremes sound than Mary - it wouldn't be hard.

    But she had nothing REAL to do with them. She just participated for a short time in an effort to patch things up and wind things down and move on.
    But if Motown owned the name and Mary didn't then how can she call herself a Supreme when the ownership belonged to Motown? Otis owns the name Temptations so anyone in his group can call themselves a legitimate Temptation and the courts would agree with that. Mary didn't own the name Supremes so I don't understand how a court could rule that Kaaren can legitimately call herself Supreme when the ownership belonged to Motown and she was never signed to Motown under that name.

    Kaaren can call herself a Supreme all she wants, but the fact is she never was one and I don't care what a court ruled.

    I've heard Kaaren and her group. They don't sound anything like Supremes. I know you're not a Mary fan, but there's no need to jab her with the comment that it wouldn't be hard for Kaaren to sound like the Supremes than her.

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    ^motown owns the name but didn't care that Lynda and scherrie used the name [[plus at times Freddie, Sundray) as the Former Ladies of the Supremes.

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    Her talent for what? Conning the public. This is all Wilson's fault. It's appalling that this has been allowed to continue. Just because someone tells lies repeatedly doesn't make it the truth. Wilson called Ragland 'Delusional'. LIAR is more appropriate. The Supremes final show took place on Sunday, June 12th 1977 at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, London and I was there. To claim to become a member of The Supremes after their last performance took place is not only delusional - it's a downright LIE.

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    The difference there is that it's in their Motown contracts that [[after leaving the group) they refer to themselves as former Supremes and that's why Scherrie's group is called Former Ladies of The Supremes [[FLOS). I've seen both Scherrie and Lynda's Motown contracts.

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    Shantel Baker. Another woman who suffered from serious delusions of grandeur. Isn't she dead? Whatever...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ^motown owns the name but didn't care that Lynda and scherrie used the name [[plus at times Freddie, Sundray) as the Former Ladies of the Supremes.
    This is right; Motown didn't care; after Berry left, it was all totally "how they could make money off the name etc.; which is why at times, the reissues were so infrequent

    It's not a jab at Mary to say she doesn't sound like the "sound of the Supremes", which is the sound of Diana to the public. Mary is more of a jazz singer and did her best job on those songs that came after Touch. A lady with a higher voice tends to replicate the Supremes sound better.

    Mary was my favorite Supreme in the day. I don't think she helped the ladies after her as much as she could have; I think that's what Susaye alludes to on Facebook; I think there could have been a decent reunion which would have benefited Cindy and Mary a lot; while I don't think Diana did much to help, Mary wanted to have the pull of the "star" so she ended up getting nothing and the fans got not very much.

    As a fan, I think that's kind of a shame. But she's been able to keep her career going which is a credit to her; she got a college degree; she survived a bad marriage and divorce and the loss of her son. She's a survivor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyfield View Post
    Her talent for what? Conning the public. This is all Wilson's fault. It's appalling that this has been allowed to continue. Just because someone tells lies repeatedly doesn't make it the truth. Wilson called Ragland 'Delusional'. LIAR is more appropriate. The Supremes final show took place on Sunday, June 12th 1977 at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, London and I was there. To claim to become a member of The Supremes after their last performance took place is not only delusional - it's a downright LIE.
    I would agree with that analysis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyfield View Post
    The difference there is that it's in their Motown contracts that [[after leaving the group) they refer to themselves as former Supremes and that's why Scherrie's group is called Former Ladies of The Supremes [[FLOS). I've seen both Scherrie and Lynda's Motown contracts.
    So Lynda and Scherrie had a contractual right with Motown.

    A judge found that Kaaren's right was a legal common law right. A bit odd to fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyfield View Post
    Shantel Baker. Another woman who suffered from serious delusions of grandeur. Isn't she dead? Whatever...
    Whatever is going on with her is completely bizarre. But Motown doesn't give one crap about this anymore. This woman creates no sales but there are no sales to be made. So she is just allowed to go out and pedal anything she wants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyfield View Post
    Shantel Baker. Another woman who suffered from serious delusions of grandeur. Isn't she dead? Whatever...
    Shantel Baker dead???? Oh Lord....that IS the end of an era.

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    She looked still alive on January 12 on her Facebook page; I guess that is her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    She looked still alive on January 12 on her Facebook page; I guess that is her.
    Whew! I guess the Supremes legacy can continue.

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    The difference between Scherrie and Lynda to Kaaren is that Scherrie and Lynda were legitimate, contractually signed Supremes. Kaaren wasn't. Kaaren was merely a background singer to Mary Wilson. Yes, in those few years after leaving the group the image was blurred but I can't begin to tell you how many different names Mary was marketed. I've seen The Supremes' Mary Wilson, Mary Wilson of the Supremes, Mary Wilson and the Supremes, etc. Isn't that in the hands of the advertisers? I still think the court was wrong in its ruling regaring Kaaren especially if they didn't weigh in the Motown name ownership factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    Whew! I guess the Supremes legacy can continue.
    What a relief!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    The difference between Scherrie and Lynda to Kaaren is that Scherrie and Lynda were legitimate, contractually signed Supremes. Kaaren wasn't. Kaaren was merely a background singer to Mary Wilson. Yes, in those few years after leaving the group the image was blurred but I can't begin to tell you how many different names Mary was marketed. I've seen The Supremes' Mary Wilson, Mary Wilson of the Supremes, Mary Wilson and the Supremes, etc. Isn't that in the hands of the advertisers? I still think the court was wrong in its ruling regaring Kaaren especially if they didn't weigh in the Motown name ownership factor.
    I'm sure the name ownership would have been raised by the lawyers.

    But I'm also sure the judge didn't know much about Motown or the Supremes.

    As I've heard this history about various groups from the 60's and 70's recited, I conclude that when the hits stop, when the money slows up, when the bookings dwindle, those left do what they have to in order to survive and meet their obligations; then they try and keep the money coming in. In order to do those things, they made very bad legal and financial decisions that compromise them for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately, a lot of things went wrong for Mary Wilson in the 70's and 80's and she just plugged holes in the dikes and they've haunted her since and cost her bookings and money for lawyers - until she just gave up chasing people. Kaaren Ragland is an unfortunate part of that legacy.

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    I've met her before. It wasn't interesting.........hehehehehehe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I've met her before. It wasn't interesting.........hehehehehehe.
    I bet she said the exact same thing about meeting you. hehehehehehehehehehe,

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    Ms. Ragland has not and will never be part of the legacy that is the Supremes. Only nine women can really claim it:

    Florence Ballard [[RIP)
    Diana Ross
    Mary Wilson
    Barbara Martin
    Cindy Birdsong
    Jean Terrell
    Lynda Laurence
    Scherrie Payne
    Susaye Greene

    That's it!

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    I still say EIGHT. WHY? Because the Supremes iconic image and group format is that of a trio. It's Eight ladies who contributed to the hits and it's those Eight ladies whose images appear on the YouTube ever-growing performances from '62 thru '77. I always refer journalists/media to the beautiful montaged cover which clearly shows all Eight.
    Name:  DD81E97A-D617-4432-84AF-895ECE1E8983-741-00000110B8A9844D.jpg
Views: 704
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    Last edited by ivyfield; 02-09-2019 at 03:36 AM. Reason: Duplicated image

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    I booked to see Kaaren's group a couple of years ago in Milton Keynes UK, but unfortunately the tour was cancelled.

    I'd still like to see the group. At the end of the day Kaaren has been performing the songs for 40 years and has to have credit for that. I don't think most people attending the shows care much about contracts in the 1970's. To most people who was actually in the Supremes in the last few years is a bit blurred anyway.

    Many of these groups are just tributes or perhaps have some really tenuous link to the originals. I'm sure most people understand that and just go to the shows for good entertainment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyfield View Post
    I still say EIGHT. WHY? Because the Supremes iconic image and group format is that of a trio. It's Eight ladies who contributed to the hits and it's those Eight ladies whose images appear on the YouTube ever-growing performances from '62 thru '77. I always refer journalists/media to the beautiful montaged cover which clearly shows all Eight.
    Name:  DD81E97A-D617-4432-84AF-895ECE1E8983-741-00000110B8A9844D.jpg
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    It’s nine. So you’re purposely excluding Barbara Martin because she wasn’t apart of the group’s iconic image and hits when they were a trio? You just can’t exclude someone from history. She’s an original Supreme. She was there with them when they auditioned for Motown. She was there with them everyday after school when they went down to Hitsville. She was there with them when Motown gave the group a chance and allowed them to record even before they signed the group. She was there when they did sign the group and when the name was changed from Primettes to Supremes. She was there all throughout those early days of recording and touring when the group was trying to make a name for themselves. Don’t dismiss her because she didn’t wear a beaded gown or sang on a hit record. Barbara put in the hard work in those early days and she shouldn’t be excluded because of it. By the way, she was with the group longer than Lynda was.

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    Well said, Brad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    It’s nine. So you’re purposely excluding Barbara Martin because she wasn’t apart of the group’s iconic image and hits when they were a trio? You just can’t exclude someone from history. She’s an original Supreme. She was there with them when they auditioned for Motown. She was there with them everyday after school when they went down to Hitsville. She was there with them when Motown gave the group a chance and allowed them to record even before they signed the group. She was there when they did sign the group and when the name was changed from Primettes to Supremes. She was there all throughout those early days of recording and touring when the group was trying to make a name for themselves. Don’t dismiss her because she didn’t wear a beaded gown or sang on a hit record. Barbara put in the hard work in those early days and she shouldn’t be excluded because of it. By the way, she was with the group longer than Lynda was.
    Exactly Brad. Barbara was there during the early hard times and Mary Wilson never forgets her when she talks about the Supremes history. If the original Supremes had not gone through the rough stages in their career, there would not have been a group for the other ladies to join later on.

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    Totally agree. I do believe Diana has talked about her,

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Totally agree. I do believe Diana has talked about her,
    She has. During RTL, when she was on Oprah she said there were 10. She was including Betty McGlown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post

    Kaaren can call herself a Supreme all she wants, but the fact is she never was one and I don't care what a court ruled.
    Does anyone know if in fact this ruling was in US courts vs somewhere else? Does Rags ever appear in the US? I was under the impression that her imposter act took place outside of this country. Am I wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyfield View Post
    I still say EIGHT. WHY? Because the Supremes iconic image and group format is that of a trio. It's Eight ladies who contributed to the hits and it's those Eight ladies whose images appear on the YouTube ever-growing performances from '62 thru '77. I always refer journalists/media to the beautiful montaged cover which clearly shows all Eight.
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    You can say what you want to say, as that is your right. But if we're talking facts and not opinions there were indeed nine contracted Supremes, including Ms. Barbara Martin. And I think if you were to ever suggest Barbara's illegitimacy to either Mary or Diana [[and Flo if she were still with us) you'd get an earful, and rightfully so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    It’s nine. So you’re purposely excluding Barbara Martin because she wasn’t apart of the group’s iconic image and hits when they were a trio? You just can’t exclude someone from history. She’s an original Supreme. She was there with them when they auditioned for Motown. She was there with them everyday after school when they went down to Hitsville. She was there with them when Motown gave the group a chance and allowed them to record even before they signed the group. She was there when they did sign the group and when the name was changed from Primettes to Supremes. She was there all throughout those early days of recording and touring when the group was trying to make a name for themselves. Don’t dismiss her because she didn’t wear a beaded gown or sang on a hit record. Barbara put in the hard work in those early days and she shouldn’t be excluded because of it. By the way, she was with the group longer than Lynda was.
    You got it Brad! Well mostly anyway. For the record, Barbara didn't audition with the girls for Motown, that was Betty. By the time Barbara came into the group, the Primettes were already fixtures at the label without a recording contract. But everything else is spot on!

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    What a lot of people don't know....is Kaaren studied law....she was a law student while touring with Mary....I don't know if she got her license to practice, but Mary introduced her from the stage several times when I saw them telling the crowd this info and adding "I sure do wish I knew her in 1964"...to me, she closely resembled Scherrie Payne, and when I first saw MW in 1986 I thought she was Scherrie….short, good looks, very charismatic stage presence...I believe what she did in court concerning entitlement and association was produce promo material for performances that included her image where Mary was billed either as The Supremes, or And The Supremes...if the agreement for MW to appear included information about the presentation of the name, and it was ignored by either the venue or the promoter, Mary was legally off the hook...Both Kaaren and Mary are well aware of the pitfalls concerning improper billing.

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    Just like all of us, you can’t just do whatever you want, whatever is easiest and cheapest - you create legal obligations by your behaviour at times and when you sign documents calling people Supremes

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Just like all of us, you can’t just do whatever you want, whatever is easiest and cheapest - you create legal obligations by your behaviour at times and when you sign documents calling people Supremes
    Billing like this Mary should have stopped. She basically gave Raagland all the amunition she needed.

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    Mary paid real expensive legal fees and Ragland also got money along with the right to bill herself a Supreme all because of shady billing which Mary should and could have stopped.

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    could it be that something as simple as the ' at the end of the wording Supremes' makes all the difference? grammatically, doesn't it indicate "belonging to"? Scherrie was the English major...lets ask her! even if the word "of" appears [[MW "of" the Supremes) she is still not being billed as the Supremes...at one point wasn't there a clause saying her own name had to be 50% larger in type/print than the groups when she was allowed to use the name?...the first appearance I saw was NYC Parks dept. outdoor show and the poster giving the dates for the entire summers list of events read The Supremes [[and underneath it...slightly smaller text) with or featuring Mary Wilson.

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    Generally rather than being rigidly legalistic, a court will look at the intent behind something-and it’s fairly clear Mary needed some Supremes

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyfield View Post
    I still say EIGHT. WHY? Because the Supremes iconic image and group format is that of a trio. It's Eight ladies who contributed to the hits and it's those Eight ladies whose images appear on the YouTube ever-growing performances from '62 thru '77. I always refer journalists/media to the beautiful montaged cover which clearly shows all Eight.
    Name:  DD81E97A-D617-4432-84AF-895ECE1E8983-741-00000110B8A9844D.jpg
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    Barbara was with them for two years and was there when they signed as the Supremes on January 15, 1961. So she counts.

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    I fixed the photo. Use this from now on.
    Name:  Supremes Nine.jpg
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Size:  15.6 KB

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I fixed the photo. Use this from now on.
    Name:  Supremes Nine.jpg
Views: 570
Size:  15.6 KB
    That's great Brad, although I always hated that album cover, at least now it is accurate!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I fixed the photo. Use this from now on.
    Name:  Supremes Nine.jpg
Views: 570
Size:  15.6 KB
    Much better.

  50. #50
    I don't know if I remember seeing that photo of Barbara before. Is it from a year book?

    Where is Shantel?

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