The Supremes Sing Country Western & Pop

[jobucats]

First of all of, I love this album. I wondered from the time I gained possession of it around 1965 [[understanding that it had been recorded several years earlier) why Motown invested money and energy into such a project for the "No Hits" Supremes. They were pretty much in the bottom tier of the company at that time. Was Berry looking for a sound that might just connect with the public [[a young, black trio of girls singing C&W) or was he looking at the big picture and could foresee that great potential this group had for the future? I don't recall other acts, prior to already having hit records, to record a 'specialty' album.

[reese]

After the success of Ray Charles' country albums as well as hits by Solomon Burke and Little Esther, Berry might have thought that a country-influenced sound could give the girls some success.

Also, Berry did have a soft spot for the Supremes and admired their abilities and work ethics. Other articles I've read suggest that other people at the company as well as some djs and distributors also thought that the girls were special and that it was only a matter of time before they got a hit. Getting the hit was the problem.

[jobucats]

After the success of Ray Charles' country albums as well as hits by Solomon Burke and Little Esther, Berry might have thought that a country-influenced sound could give the girls some success.

Also, Berry did have a soft spot for the Supremes and admired their abilities and work ethics. Other articles I've read suggest that other people at the company as well as some djs and distributors also thought that the girls were special and that it was only a matter of time before they got a hit. Getting the hit was the problem.

Reese, I had forgotten about the artists you mentioned and how they had some success with C&W material which could have been one of the motivating factors to have the Supremes to try the same.

Considering Motown itself was less that 5 years ago, that was, in my opinion, quite a leap of faith for a record company just beginning to some have some success to invest the finances necessary in a group that was only locally known. Although recorded around 1962 and 1963, wasn't this shelved until after the Where Did Our Love Go album? The young ladies' potential must indeed have been evident to more than just Berry to simply be allowed to go into the studio and record an album to be placed on hold.

[PeaceNHarmony]

After the success of Ray Charles' country albums as well as hits by Solomon Burke and Little Esther, Berry might have thought that a country-influenced sound could give the girls some success.

Also, Berry did have a soft spot for the Supremes and admired their abilities and work ethics. Other articles I've read suggest that other people at the company as well as some djs and distributors also thought that the girls were special and that it was only a matter of time before they got a hit. Getting the hit was the problem.

The Ray Charles et al tie-in is an interesting point that I never considered; I think you are on to something. I find it a cute lp.

[bradsupremes]

A majority of those tracks were cut in 1963 for the shelved Sing Ballads & Blues. When that album was put aside the girls just kept recording with a variety of producers hoping to find some magic combination. After “Where Did Our Love Go” hit and then “Baby Love” as well as the success of Ray Charles’ country album, Motown revived the project as a country-themed album with new vocals added in November 1964 plus various overdubs. I don’t have the recording session annotations so I’m not sure if anything new was cut for the project. The group was becoming white hot at this time so Motown saw this as a worthy investment especially since a majority of the tracks had been completed a year before.

[sup_fan]

in the pre WDOLG days, Berry was sure that the Supremes [[and especially Diana Ross) had IT. i'm greatly paraphrasing here but he was looking for a female singer that he could develop and mold into a mega star. One that would cross over into the "white" pop world as that was were the major money was to be made. So his goal was always to have an ingenue to launch into superstardom.

Mable John was an early potential candidate but was much more a blues singer and Berry wanted pop. Freda Payne was another candidate but her mother wouldn't let her sign. I think he was hoping Mary Wells would be one but at the same time, he was growing more and more enamored with the Supremes and Diana. even at a young age, Diana possessed a star ability. she was a consummate performer and had amazing drive. She also really developed in the studio. All of these kept berry's interest peaked. Plus she was equally an enamored with him and so they both quickly developed a strong rapport and bond.

M and F also had real showmanship and abilities and so he was taken with the whole group. and with the possibilities of what they could achieve. When so many of their releases struggled, it was sort of a contest to see who could strike gold first. They did "girl group" songs such as Never Again and I Want a Guy, sultry bosa nova tunes a la Mary wells with Breathtaking Guy and Your Heart Belongs to me, harder edged r&B with Let Me Go and You Bring Back Memories. and then country with the Clarence Paul stuff.

it was just sort of an approach of turning over every stone trying to find SOMETHING that would hit. cuz berry knew once they could unlock the hits with Diana, there would be no stopping it

[Boogiedown]

in the pre WDOLG days, Berry was sure that the Supremes [[and especially Diana Ross) had IT. i'm greatly paraphrasing here but he was looking for a female singer that he could develop and mold into a mega star. One that would cross over into the "white" pop world as that was were the major money was to be made. So his goal was always to have an ingenue to launch into superstardom.

Mable John was an early potential candidate but was much more a blues singer and Berry wanted pop. Freda Payne was another candidate but her mother wouldn't let her sign. I think he was hoping Mary Wells would be one but at the same time, he was growing more and more enamored with the Supremes and Diana. even at a young age, Diana possessed a star ability. she was a consummate performer and had amazing drive. She also really developed in the studio. All of these kept berry's interest peaked. Plus she was equally an enamored with him and so they both quickly developed a strong rapport and bond.

M and F also had real showmanship and abilities and so he was taken with the whole group. and with the possibilities of what they could achieve. When so many of their releases struggled, it was sort of a contest to see who could strike gold first. They did "girl group" songs such as Never Again and I Want a Guy, sultry bosa nova tunes a la Mary wells with Breathtaking Guy and Your Heart Belongs to me, harder edged r&B with Let Me Go and You Bring Back Memories. and then country with the Clarence Paul stuff.

it was just sort of an approach of turning over every stone trying to find SOMETHING that would hit. cuz berry knew once they could unlock the hits with Diana, there would be no stopping it

Very good post.

It may seem obvious now looking back, but at the time Diana Ross was a diamond in the rough, had Berry not seen it, and not had the patience....
For me the Diana Ross story is one of music's best , if not the best. I think The whole thing defied all odds , and without exaggeration , was an extremely meaningful part of our cultural advancement.

She is a very important American figure which I think just becomes more and more apparent the more time passes.

[bradsupremes]

Freda Payne was another candidate but her mother wouldn't let her sign. I think he was hoping Mary Wells would be one but at the same time, he was growing more and more enamored with the Supremes and Diana.

Gordy tried to get Freda signed twice. The first time was at the start of Motown to which her mother wouldn't let her sign. The second time was around 1965. From what I heard, she had her own people/lawyers review or negotiate her contract [[very smart of her part) which Gordy/Motown wasn't happy about and it fell through. I don't know if with that second potential signing he wanted to craft her to be the crossover superstar like he imagined or if he wanted to sign her so she wouldn't be competition for Diana.

[danman869]

Gordy tried to get Freda signed twice. The first time was at the start of Motown to which her mother wouldn't let her sign. The second time was around 1965. From what I heard, she had her own people/lawyers review or negotiate her contract [[very smart of her part) which Gordy/Motown wasn't happy about and it fell through. I don't know if with that second potential signing he wanted to craft her to be the crossover superstar like he imagined or if he wanted to sign her so she wouldn't be competition for Diana.

Interesting info about Freda being courted again in 1965 [[and the deal fell through). It makes me wonder whether Barbara McNair was sort of “second choice” after Freda? I can see that they both had similar approaches to a song and of general material. The Supremes could [[and eventually did) sing standards, but perhaps Freda was thought of as having a voice that could easily deliver standards—and also wouldn’t be direct competition for Diana/The Supremes. If they’d pursued it, I can see Freda being heavily marketed to white audiences in the ‘60s and having the beauty, poise, and vocal delivery to achieve it...but I think Barbara McNair was slotted into that [[especially after the Payne deal fell through). Just theories, but learning about Freda being pursued again in ‘65 makes McNair’s signing in ‘65 more understandable.

[thommg]

Freda recorded her first album in 1964. It was a jazz release on Impulse. It appears that she went with MGM rather than Motown, as she released another jazz album on MGM in 1966.

[sup_fan]

very interesting about Freda #2. hadn't heard that!

makes for an interesting "what if" - what if Freda HAD signed the first time? do you think it would have resulted in Mary Wells or the Sups having different successes?

IMO i don't think it would have. Freda is great but no Diana Ross, in terms of overall entertainer talents. If you put both a 1965 Diana and a 1965 Freda on the stage, there's just no way F could compete. sure she was very beautiful and talented. but there really aren't many women entertainers that have that DR magic when they hit the stage

[bradsupremes]

very interesting about Freda #2. hadn't heard that!

makes for an interesting "what if" - what if Freda HAD signed the first time? do you think it would have resulted in Mary Wells or the Sups having different successes?

IMO i don't think it would have. Freda is great but no Diana Ross, in terms of overall entertainer talents. If you put both a 1965 Diana and a 1965 Freda on the stage, there's just no way F could compete. sure she was very beautiful and talented. but there really aren't many women entertainers that have that DR magic when they hit the stage

It makes you wonder how Freda on Motown would have affected the Supremes material. Freda had gone to school and was good friends with HDH. They could insisted they record her and given her first try on songs like “My World Is Empty Without You” or “I Hear A Symphony.”

[sup_fan]

i can hear her doing some of those. although she has a big voice, like Scherrie. and might have been a bit too powerful. But so interesting to consider!

[RanRan79]

A majority of those tracks were cut in 1963 for the shelved Sing Ballads & Blues. When that album was put aside the girls just kept recording with a variety of producers hoping to find some magic combination. After “Where Did Our Love Go” hit and then “Baby Love” as well as the success of Ray Charles’ country album, Motown revived the project as a country-themed album with new vocals added in November 1964 plus various overdubs. I don’t have the recording session annotations so I’m not sure if anything new was cut for the project. The group was becoming white hot at this time so Motown saw this as a worthy investment especially since a majority of the tracks had been completed a year before.

Brad I can't remember all off the top of my head, but "Sunset" and "Baby Doll" were all new recordings in 1964. I think there may have been one or two others as well.

[sup_fan]

^ interesting. i hadn't heard of specifics regarding completely new songs recorded. I know they obviously added supplemental vocals and the Andantes. but wasn't sure of any other full recording sessions.

[bradsupremes]

Brad I can't remember all off the top of my head, but "Sunset" and "Baby Doll" were all new recordings in 1964. I think there may have been one or two others as well.

I wish I had the recording information for those, but it's very possible they were recorded in '64 for the project to fill out the album.

[sup_fan]

wish we had more of the dates too. the bootlets and Sup Timelines from the expanded editions have been great. the WDOLG booklet was a one of the earliest and included tons of great info on WDOLG but maybe they didn't think [[at the time) to include what else was being recorded for other projects simultaneously.

Much of the WDOLG lp i think would have also worked for Ballads and Blues. my proposed lineup for that lp would have been:

My heart can't take it no more
Breathtaking guy
he means the world to me
i'm the exception to the rule
long gone lover
bye baby
mr blues
come on boy
I'm giving you your freedom
lazybones
makes no difference now
sunset

[RanRan79]

I wish I had the recording information for those, but it's very possible they were recorded in '64 for the project to fill out the album.

"You Need Me" and "Tumblin Tumbleweeds" were the other two songs, in addition to "Sunset" and "Baby Doll", recorded in Nov 1964 that were brand new recordings. Although it's possible that the backing tracks themselves were created during the original sessions in 1963 but didn't get vocals until that Nov 64 session. All except "Baby Doll", which has always sounded to me like it was from a different sound than the other cuts. And then of course the rest of the tracks on the album were re-recorded vocals from 1963 [[except for "My Heart Can't Take It No More").

[RanRan79]

Much of the WDOLG lp i think would have also worked for Ballads and Blues. my proposed lineup for that lp would have been:

My heart can't take it no more
Breathtaking guy
he means the world to me
i'm the exception to the rule
long gone lover
bye baby
mr blues
come on boy
I'm giving you your freedom
lazybones
makes no difference now
sunset

Sup I always wished that the group had released the album. Mine might look like this:

1) My Heart Can't Take It No More [[not the single version but a new non C&W version, more like what the girls did at the Apollo that year)
2) A Breath Taking Guy
3) I'm the Exception to the Rule
4) Mr. Blues
5) Come On Boy
6) I'm Giving You Your Freedom
7) Funny How Time Slips Away [[Florence lead)
8) Makes No Difference Now
9) Sunset
10) Lazybones
11) My Imagination
12) Standing At the Crossroads of Love