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  1. #1

    New Michael Jackson Documentary - A Controversial Lynching?


  2. #2
    The family gotta stop calling everything a lynching...

    Regardless if he did it or not, saying things like that don't help their case.

  3. #3
    This is something theyíve said regarding other stories?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    This is something theyíve said regarding other stories?
    During the second round of allegations, Jermaine said MJ's arraignment was "a media lynching". It's either a lynching or a "conspiracy".

  5. #5
    It's a lynching and conspiracy. Dragging someone through the mud for money is nothing if but a lynching.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by biggestfourtops fan View Post
    It's a lynching and conspiracy. Dragging someone through the mud for money is nothing if but a lynching.
    That is exactly what is happening. Sadly, I am not surprised that this is happening.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by biggestfourtops fan View Post
    It's a lynching and conspiracy. Dragging someone through the mud for money is nothing if but a lynching.
    Presumably you are referring to the producer Dan Reed when you talk of 'making money'. If so, you must also take into account the fact that, since he genuinely believes in these allegations, he is out to give the victims a voice.

    It's not always about 'making money'

    You may not know the name 'Jimmy Saville'. Google him. He left a trail of victims in his life who only found atonement because there were people like Dan Reed who had the guts to speak out.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by biggestfourtops fan View Post
    It's a lynching and conspiracy. Dragging someone through the mud for money is nothing if but a lynching.
    Unless itís true

  9. #9
    Michael Jackson may of had inappropriate relationships with young boys, but I donít think he molested any of them. I donít think he had the moral compass to go through with such behavior even if he wanted to!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lakedistrictlad1 View Post
    Presumably you are referring to the producer Dan Reed when you talk of 'making money'. If so, you must also take into account the fact that, since he genuinely believes in these allegations, he is out to give the victims a voice.

    It's not always about 'making money'

    You may not know the name 'Jimmy Saville'. Google him. He left a trail of victims in his life who only found atonement because there were people like Dan Reed who had the guts to speak out.
    I know exactly who Jimmy Saville. He was a monster that was never brought to trial and acquitted. He was uptight with the British Royal Family.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Unless it’s true
    It is not true. Ask Diana Ross

  12. #12
    Here is what I'm gonna say about this...

    And hear me out because I'm not trying to say he's guilty.

    I admit I've struggled with this since the first allegations because I'm such a fan of his and yet I feel between what he's claimed and what his accusers claimed, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    I feel like he should've immediately STOP being so close to children after he was accused the first time. I also didn't agree with him agreeing to settle the case (especially since years later, he claimed he was given bad advice but he himself said he wanted to settle because he thought that would "exonerate" him). And I thought he had when he married Lisa Marie Presley so I thought, silly of me, that he had finally woke up and realize if he wanted people to believe he was innocent, he would not only marry but would work hard on reviving his image. He couldn't sell himself as an icon for the youth after being accused of heinous crimes.

    But as we saw, this man was clueless to how everyone else viewed him that wasn't a fan. To many of his fans, or "the MJ family", he was still this wide-eyed innocent who got caught up on trumped up charges. Even some were claiming that he was innocent because "only one boy accused him and the rest didn't". But apparently if other people speak up, all of a sudden, they're seeking money or fame or payback for MJ not wanting a deal with them (hence the Evan Chandler situation and later Wade's alleged proposal to be included in a MJ Cirque du Soleil tribute).

    The only thing that really exonerated Michael in my eyes was, unlike R. Kelly, he had no tape. True, there were settlements and there is proof Michael did pay money to all of these children, mainly to keep their stories of their relationships with Michael confidential, but I think because he showed an image that was one of pure innocence and someone who found fame at the age of nine performing at the Apollo, it's easy to deflect from the allegations. We still don't wanna think a man who had entertained audiences for roughly 42 years in the public eye (and 45 if you add his early performances in Gary, IN) could be guilty of such accusations and we have good reason NOT to believe it because when it comes to Michael, money signs are everywhere. The man earned a billion dollar fortune when he was alive and still has one in death due to the estate's efforts to try to get everyone to not focus on the outlandish areas of his life (plastic surgery, the marriages, the questionable parentage of his three children, etc.) and focus on his art.

    And when people accuse Michael of heinous crimes, that's what it boils down to: "they're trying to extort me", "it's a conspiracy" (something he said shortly after his 2003 arrest because it coincided with the release of a hits compilation he put out because he claimed his compilation went number one in other countries but technically the album struggled on the charts in most countries except the UK, if that, and only became a huge seller after Michael's death in 2009), AFAIK, Michael never called what he went through as a "lynching" (that was Jermaine's words and I don't know who was behind the latest statement that said it again but it wouldn't surprise me if Jermaine wanted to again be the family spokesperson) but he did say it was a conspiracy.

    I also remember after the first allegations, he sued Evan Chandler for extortion and MJ's team came up short in finding proof of this so it was dropped out of court. This was also around the same time that MJ's team settled with the Chandler family for $15 million which helped in the criminal case not being pursued because Jordan Chandler, the first boy to accuse Michael of molesting him, decided not to testify.

    I do believe that in some cases, many did try to extort Michael out of his money. Maybe not the Chandlers but that's another story and I don't wanna get into it. There have been those who have accused MJ of sexual abuse that were found to not be believable (at least two cases came up that were dismissed for being too wild to prosecute against him) so yeah I can believe someone conspired against MJ, that is true. The prosecutor in his trial was WAY overzealous with his prosecution of Michael and I think that's another reason he was acquitted. The guy was an a-hole. (to be continued)

  13. #13
    Now here's where I place the blame on Michael Jackson: him desperately wanting to be around children, mainly young boys. Like...WHY? Even if you believe he's innocent, you have to ask yourself this question:

    Why would a grown ass man think it's okay to hang out with an underage child?

    Are we supposed to accept it because it's Michael "my childhood was all recording studios, TV shows, theaters, halls, arenas and stadiums" Jackson? Like, look, I don't care how bad your childhood was, you don't have to prove it by having sleepovers or even sleeping with one child in particular (and there were a lot of young MEN who admitted they slept with Michael alone even while defending him. This includes Emmanuel Lewis, Jonathan Spence, Macaulay Culkin, Brett Barnes (the latter two men testified at his 2005 trial) and Sean Lennon. And they've been steadfastly defending Michael just as much as the other men like Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck have said that Michael was sexually inappropriate with them at young ages (only reason I didn't include Jordan is because he's been MIA since '94 and though he's been spotted since then, he has avoided all contact with the press; even at nearly 40, this stuff still haunts him; if fans feel like he was set up by his father to lie on Michael, he should admit it now; my belief in the reason why he hasn't said "it's not true, I lied on Michael" is because he still maintains that Michael DID molest him).

    Going to his "my childhood was awful" story, the way Michael says it, you think everyone had the greatest childhood in the world compared to him. Like he was the only one to come out of poverty in a predominantly black city to perform in front of presidents, kings and queens before he learned how to drive. Or that he had the worst childhood of them all. That's not even true. But here's what I think was going on with Michael that could explain his arrested development.

    I think he may have suffered from depression not due to early fame but due to being treated like he was a cash cow by his parents (yes I'm blaming Katherine too) and suffering from physical, mental and emotional abuse from his father (something he shares with another larger-than-life Motown legend, Marvin Gaye). He also may have suffered other forms of abuse (it's alleged but never proven and I hope it's not true either) so he may have decided that at a certain point, he didn't wanna relate to the adult world. This would be roughly after 1973 when he begins showing this "boy in a bubble" phase. If you check his pictures between 1974 and 1979, you see a young man who struggled to find any solace in his pain. Religion sheltered him, early fame kept him in a prison (he always complained of fans being unruly with him) and his parents made sure to keep him locked away from experiencing a normal life. He actually starts openly befriending young kids in 1974, he met Rodney Allen Rippy, the burger pitchman, at the first American Music Awards in February of the year. He was 15, Rodney was 5. But according to Rodney years later, they bonded and Rodney was happy that someone as big as Michael Jackson was, even in 1974, would want to be his friend. However, Rodney said that things ended between them when Michael released the Destiny album with his brothers. I don't know when Michael began to develop an obsession with Peter Pan but whenever it started (and this could be mid-70s as well), it began to be an unhealthy obsession. Like it's no crime to still love, as he put it, "elementary things" when you become a young adult (like me, I still love Disney movies from my childhood and when my nephew was very young, I enjoyed some of the children's stuff he watched...because I had to keep an eye on him sometimes), but when you think you have to BE that person, then it becomes a problem.

    In 1979, Michael got acquainted with a 13-year-old boy from Leeds, Yorkshire named Terry George (who would grow up to host Mr. Gay pageants in the UK) and got Terry to exchange phone numbers where they talked about childlike stuff. Terry however would claim that Michael asked him inappropriate questions about sex but he dropped it once Terry was uneasy about it. I don't think he's lying but Terry also stopped short of saying Michael was a pedophile because of it. He just thought Michael was confused. After 1981, Michael stopped calling him.

    But he did have relationships with children that were innocent, I think. Especially the relationships with Emmanuel Lewis and Alfonso Ribeiro. But reportedly, Lewis' parents were concerned when in 1984 (or 1985, not sure which year), Michael entered him and Emmanuel in a hotel as "father and son" though they didn't cut all contact between Emmanuel and Michael but after 1986, it was less and less.

    After "Thriller" became the biggest-selling album of all time, it seemed like Michael began to be drunk with power. This mixture of religious evangelism, growing pains, childlike obsessions and this addiction with power produced a power keg that exploded in Michael Jackson. I don't think Michael ever had a moment in his life when Michael Jackson, the superstar left and Michael Jackson, the person entered. So it's easy to blur the lines. And then add him wanting to be seen as "the greatest show on earth" and doing his best to gain headlines no matter how screwy it was...until it turned on him and they really thought he was wacky (the plastic surgery, the skin lightening, which was a mixture of actual loss of depigmentation, i.e., vitiligo, and lupus; using a lot of makeup and skin bleaching creams to "even" out his lost skin cells, the thing with Bubbles the chimp, etc.).

    His relationships with boys were always put on display in front of the press going back to Emmanuel. And then afterwards, you never saw him WITHOUT a boy near him. And people, back in the late '80s and early '90s, would make jokes, like "is he gonna marry that kid?" (Especially with that boy who traveled with him in the '80s during the Bad tour, who later accused him of sexual abuse and, later, Macaulay, etc.) Still, it was a shock when in 1993, the first round of allegations came out on Michael and afterwards, I don't think he ever recovered.

    Instead of Neverland, the man needed therapy. Like yeah have your house, invite kids there to play and have fun, but stay away from them. He was known for helping kids, being a humanitarian, but to go further and sleep with them and develop feelings? Clearly, Michael didn't like to be told "no". Even his supporters admitted that. This man was all "I'm gonna do what I want and eff them" (that's how he really was after 1993, like he just didn't give a f... and he obviously didn't!) until the 2005 case, which I think was the beginning of the end for Michael Jackson.

    Whatever went on, whether true or not, when do we finally wake up and realize, "yo, Michael was a legend, an icon, and one of the greatest entertainers to walk this earth, but he should've stay away from those kids!"

  14. #14
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/joevoge...F#7d3566e7640f

    Hereís another take on this story

    And it seems to suggest Michael is not being treated fairly

  15. #15
    Joe Vogel is a huge stan so I don't trust what he says.

  16. #16
    Sorry, what's a "huge stan?" A word I don't know.

  17. #17
    jrob I think it's a kind of super fan / obsessive fan

  18. #18
    Yeah, super fan/obsessive fan.

    Eminem kinda made the term famous in his 2000 song of the same name.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Yeah, super fan/obsessive fan.

    Eminem kinda made the term famous in his 2000 song of the same name.
    God itís tough to get old!

  20. #20
    Michael is the greatest of all times in regards to Popular Music. There is nothing anyone can say or do now to change the opinions people all over the World have of him good or bad. He cannot add to or take away anything from his story now. The rest has to be view as suspect because they waited purposely until he died. The events these accusers claim to have occurred had to have occurred while Michael was living. They said nothing then.....they even went further to testify in court that nothing ever happened to them with Michael.

  21. #21
    Could be. However, none of us (presumably) were there.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Could be. However, none of us (presumably) were there.
    Yeah, that's true, but where are the receipts?

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Yeah, that's true, but where are the receipts?
    Here is a Forbes interesting article.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/joevoge.../#2474db64640f

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by nysister View Post
    Here is a Forbes interesting article.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/joevoge.../#2474db64640f
    Thank you Sister.

  25. #25
    Of course there are those who still say the same thing about Cosby and OJ.

  26. #26
    As the years go by and values change, I'm more convinced something wasn't right; there was way too much smoke; I remember Diana once slipped and said she prayed what she'd heard wasn't true.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    As the years go by and values change, I'm more convinced something wasn't right; there was way too much smoke; I remember Diana once slipped and said she prayed what she'd heard wasn't true.
    I, too, would love to see the allegations proven untrue, but most likely that is impossible. Between the 'drank and the drugs and the emotional issues it's possible that a molester can convince themself that either what they are doing is not wrong, or that it is someone else doing it. I know the current accusers once claimed under oath that there was no wrongdoing but lying under oath is nothing new, particularly when there is a million dollar bank transfer pending. 'Twas the pictures inside the house that tilted my thoughts away from assured innocence. The secret rooms with locked doors ... Prove anything? No. Even remotely normal or non-suspect? No again. And, again, this does not prove anything, but I always ask myself ... why would anyone remotely normal butcher 'n bleach themself to end up looking the way MJ did? If he really didn't want to resemble his father a more normal nose procedure would have done the job.
    Last edited by PeaceNHarmony; 02-05-2019 at 02:22 PM.

  28. #28
    Agreed

    A regular man that lives in a regular neighbourhood would be investigated immediately if he start having young boys sleep in his bed with him.

    At a minimum, it was monumentally stupid

    Sadly weíve learned that just because youíve had hit records doesnít mean you are emotionally intelligent or can manage money or that you have any kind of happy life

  29. #29
    https://youtu.be/WcSjWCRAPgc

    Steve tried to warn him!

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jboy88 View Post
    https://youtu.be/WcSjWCRAPgc

    Steve tried to warn him!
    Excellent - funny guy. 'Giraffe money' - my new catch phrase!

  31. #31
    One person had a NDE and saw MJ dancing in hell. Not trying to judge, just trying to find what I found on some website I saw a long time ago (and no,it wasn't a conspiracy theory website). I also think it was a dumb mistake for Viacom to sell Famous Music to Micheal's Sony-ATV company not knowing he would die in a few years.

    And I tried to make a Black History Month report of him back when I was a kid before it was cool but my teacher saying no saying he's too controversial. Soo-reee! I also never cared for him as a young child because the only song I heard was "Will U Be There" from Free Willy. And to make matters worse his songs were (probably) banned on my FM radio stations except for J5 songs. So I never heard Beat It (but I did hear Weird Al's version), Never Going to Give It Up, Billie Jean (but I heard the Pepsi version), The Way You Make Me Feel, etc. etc. I only remember the Jackson 5.

    Will anyone from the Detroit area fill in on this? Did major Detroit stations at one point during the 2000s until his death ban Micheal Jackson except the Jackson 5? Like Magic 105.1, 100.3 WNIC, 101.5 The River (Toledo, OH), WDVD?
    Last edited by IMissFlo93; 02-10-2019 at 11:52 AM.

  32. #32
    Can I just suggest something? Maybe this is controversial because of the man we're talking about but, uh...

    Let me ask you guys a personal question. If someone who was "child like" came to your house and ask you if your child could hang out with them at their house, would you? Much less sleep with that child.

    Forget the fact that this is the award-winning global megastar named Michael Jackson and answer that question honestly... EVEN if you don't think molestation would happen, how would you feel as a parent? I have a feeling that if he wasn't allowed to be around kids like that, we wouldn't be having these discussions that we've had about this for the last 25 or so years.

  33. #33
    In Canada, you as a parent, would be investigated by Social Services and Housing for allowing your child to be around such a person unsupervised

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    In Canada, you as a parent, would be investigated by Social Services and Housing for allowing your child to be around such a person unsupervised
    Thank you. And that's true in the U.S. too, last I checked.

    Yet they let this famous man just go around the country AND the world with children. Even if he didn't molest the kids, that's a problem! I mean many of them have admitted spending time ALONE with MJ.

    Yet for 20 years, this was allowed to go on. Even after 1993, he should've taken it as a sign to "don't do this again" but apparently MJ had become very egotistical and think he was doing the kids a favor. And yes I know the kids who defend him as adults now say that it was harmless but still, if you were a parent, why even put your trust in someone like that?

    It's not a surprise what happened to him because the adults in his life - Quincy, his manager Frank Dileo, his mother, etc., all told him "don't do that no more, you could've gone to jail" but he didn't listen until his life was on the line. After the trial, it was just grown ups. But why wait until your life is on the line to straighten up? By that point, it was too late anyway and he died only four years later.

    Was it worth it? I doubt it.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by IMissFlo93 View Post
    One person had a NDE and saw MJ dancing in hell. Not trying to judge, just trying to find what I found on some website I saw a long time ago (and no,it wasn't a conspiracy theory website). I also think it was a dumb mistake for Viacom to sell Famous Music to Micheal's Sony-ATV company not knowing he would die in a few years.

    And I tried to make a Black History Month report of him back when I was a kid before it was cool but my teacher saying no saying he's too controversial. Soo-reee! I also never cared for him as a young child because the only song I heard was "Will U Be There" from Free Willy. And to make matters worse his songs were (probably) banned on my FM radio stations except for J5 songs. So I never heard Beat It (but I did hear Weird Al's version), Never Going to Give It Up, Billie Jean (but I heard the Pepsi version), The Way You Make Me Feel, etc. etc. I only remember the Jackson 5.

    Will anyone from the Detroit area fill in on this? Did major Detroit stations at one point during the 2000s until his death ban Micheal Jackson except the Jackson 5? Like Magic 105.1, 100.3 WNIC, 101.5 The River (Toledo, OH), WDVD?
    Detroit has never banned any of Michael Jackson's music from any of the areas that I know of. I also am familiar with Magic 105.1, Toledo. I use to listen to it when I am in the area over the holidays. I was not aware that they banned any of Michael's music as he was always very popular there.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Thank you. And that's true in the U.S. too, last I checked.

    Yet they let this famous man just go around the country AND the world with children. Even if he didn't molest the kids, that's a problem! I mean many of them have admitted spending time ALONE with MJ.

    Yet for 20 years, this was allowed to go on. Even after 1993, he should've taken it as a sign to "don't do this again" but apparently MJ had become very egotistical and think he was doing the kids a favor. And yes I know the kids who defend him as adults now say that it was harmless but still, if you were a parent, why even put your trust in someone like that?

    It's not a surprise what happened to him because the adults in his life - Quincy, his manager Frank Dileo, his mother, etc., all told him "don't do that no more, you could've gone to jail" but he didn't listen until his life was on the line. After the trial, it was just grown ups. But why wait until your life is on the line to straighten up? By that point, it was too late anyway and he died only four years later.

    Was it worth it? I doubt it.
    No it wasnít worth it

    Life in a bubble surrounded by yes men

  37. #37
    For real. The more he stayed in his world, the more unrealistic his world became. I just wish everyone who loved Michael be honest for once and not think everything against him was conspiracy or a witch hunt. We can't let celebrity cloud our judgment.

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