The Two Dorothy's Together

**jobeterob** · 01-21-2019, 08:27 PM

Attachment 14959

Stephanie and Diana

**reese** · 01-21-2019, 09:16 PM

I remember seeing this photo in Right On! magazine many years ago. I think it was around the time of THE BOSS and Stephanie's 20th Century Fox signing.

**midnightman** · 01-21-2019, 11:04 PM

Great photo!

**PeaceNHarmony** · 01-22-2019, 09:31 AM

Stephanie lookin' like she sucked a lemon and got it stuck in her throat ...

**marv2** · 01-22-2019, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

Stephanie lookin' like she sucked a lemon and got it stuck in her throat ...

It looks like Diane is trying to explain why she stole the role of "Dorothy" in "The Wiz" from her and Stephania is like " yeah whatever *itch" LOL!

**jobeterob** · 01-22-2019, 01:09 PM

Diana tried to get many others roles as a Munchkin but most were unsuccessful

**luke** · 01-22-2019, 05:54 PM

Lolol Marv!!

**midnightman** · 01-22-2019, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Diana tried to get many others roles as a Munchkin but most were unsuccessful

I wish she had fought for the role of The Wiz. Now wouldn't that have been funny? I could've seen Richard Pryor putting that in his stand up.

**jobeterob** · 01-22-2019, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I wish she had fought for the role of The Wiz. Now wouldn't that have been funny? I could've seen Richard Pryor putting that in his stand up.

Ironic how things have turned out for The Wiz. It's her most popular movie with the public and one she's well known for but it's a long ways from her best performance. It can't touch Lady Sings the Blues or Out of Darkness. And the movie ended up with great music and Michael Jackson in a movie. And she became very good friends with Richard Pryor arising from the movie.

And after all these years, The Wiz is now a big success, much like the Wizard of Oz became a much bigger success years after the fact.

**PeaceNHarmony** · 01-22-2019, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Ironic how things have turned out for The Wiz. It's her most popular movie with the public and one she's well known for but it's a long ways from her best performance. It can't touch Lady Sings the Blues or Out of Darkness. And the movie ended up with great music and Michael Jackson in a movie. And she became very good friends with Richard Pryor arising from the movie.

And after all these years, The Wiz is now a big success, much like the Wizard of Oz became a much bigger success years after the fact.

True all around [[mostly - Diana's singing on the ST is superb) & I did not make the connection of the origin WOO not being an initial big success, either. Hope all is well in [[perhaps my future home) Canada!

**midnightman** · 01-22-2019, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Ironic how things have turned out for The Wiz. It's her most popular movie with the public and one she's well known for but it's a long ways from her best performance. It can't touch Lady Sings the Blues or Out of Darkness. And the movie ended up with great music and Michael Jackson in a movie. And she became very good friends with Richard Pryor arising from the movie.

And after all these years, The Wiz is now a big success, much like the Wizard of Oz became a much bigger success years after the fact.

Yeah, people forget the original Wizard of Oz was a flop when it opened [[though it turned Judy Garland into a superstar) and it grossed more money years later. The same with The Wiz years down the line.

**marv2** · 01-22-2019, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Yeah, people forget the original Wizard of Oz was a flop when it opened [[though it turned Judy Garland into a superstar) and it grossed more money years later. The same with The Wiz years down the line.

People forget because most of the people that were old enough to remember the opening of the original Wizard of Oz are either dead or in a nursing home now.......hehehehehehe!

**Bluebrock** · 01-23-2019, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

People forget because most of the people that were old enough to remember the opening of the original Wizard of Oz are either dead or in a nursing home now.......hehehehehehe!

Was that meant to be funny? If so it was a resounding failure.

**jobeterob** · 01-23-2019, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

Was that meant to be funny? If so it was a resounding failure.

He missed the demented category where miserable old hens end up

**jack020** · 01-23-2019, 03:44 AM

Well marv2, you are probably not too far from staying in a nursing home too!

**marv2** · 01-23-2019, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by jack020

Well marv2, you are probably not too far from staying in a nursing home too!

30 years from now, God willing and creek don't rise. How about you?

**jack020** · 01-23-2019, 07:02 AM

Here in Holland these days you are supposed to stay in your home as long as possible with help from family or the council.
I hope I can stay in my appartment in the center Of Amsterdam for many years to come without outside help.
BTW: I still have a job working for the council

**RanRan79** · 01-23-2019, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I wish she had fought for the role of The Wiz. Now wouldn't that have been funny? I could've seen Richard Pryor putting that in his stand up.

Stephanie Mills was never going to get the role in that movie.

It's not hard to argue against Diana playing the role of Dorothy at the time, seeing how the role has historically been a young girl and it would've made sense to continue the tradition. But I also see the temptation of taking the risk once the script was changed to that of a young woman afraid to walk into the independent chapter of her life. I think had people not focused on the way the role was written originally that the movie would've been a bigger box office success, as Dorothy's new issue was a timeless one that millions could relate to.

But if the role had been kept as originally intended, Stephanie didn't have a chance in hell. She may have been a fine fit for Broadway, but she did not have a big screen face. And that's no shade at her looks or me trying to be funny. It has been only in recent- very recent- years that Black women considered to be "unconventionally" beautiful are now being allowed to showcase their acting abilities as box office draws. But in the 70s? Yeah right. Stephanie, with her darker skin and face that was mostly nose? They weren't giving that girl that kind of high profile role no matter if she originated the role in The Wiz, or even if she wrote it and directed it her damn self. Stephanie Mills was never going to be big screen Dorothy. So I don't know how much fighting she could've done.

**RanRan79** · 01-23-2019, 10:32 AM

Now I must ponder who in the industry had a chance if you take Diana and Stephanie out of the equation. Seems like most of the people I can think of would've been a bit too young in 1978, but would've been just right if the movie was made in the early 80s. Maybe Stacy Lattisaw? I just don't know anything about her acting abilities. Janet Jackson would've been a great cast for her acting, but vocally she could not have handled Quincy's arrangements. Maybe Stephanie or Diana would've had to do the vocals and Janet lip sync. Lol

**reese** · 01-23-2019, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Now I must ponder who in the industry had a chance if you take Diana and Stephanie out of the equation. Seems like most of the people I can think of would've been a bit too young in 1978, but would've been just right if the movie was made in the early 80s. Maybe Stacy Lattisaw? I just don't know anything about her acting abilities. Janet Jackson would've been a great cast for her acting, but vocally she could not have handled Quincy's arrangements. Maybe Stephanie or Diana would've had to do the vocals and Janet lip sync. Lol

I can't think of a young actress at the time that Universal would have built a multi-million dollar film around. That's why the thought of Diana doing it probably appealed to them. Maybe if they had waited a couple of years and Stephanie had some hit records, she might have been considered. Maybe Irene Cara?

Not to mention that it isn't uncommon for someone to originate a role on Broadway but not star in the motion picture. Just this weekend, I was watching an appreciation on Carol Channing and she mentioned how she once ended up on a flight and the film shown was HELLO DOLLY, starring Barbra Streisand. Ouch!

**RanRan79** · 01-23-2019, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by reese

I can't think of a young actress at the time that Universal would have built a multi-million dollar film around. That's why the thought of Diana doing it probably appealed to them. Maybe if they had waited a couple of years and Stephanie had some hit records, she might have been considered. Maybe Irene Cara?

Not to mention that it isn't uncommon for someone to originate a role on Broadway but not star in the motion picture. Just this weekend, I was watching an appreciation on Carol Channing and she mentioned how she once ended up on a flight and the film shown was HELLO DOLLY, starring Barbra Streisand. Ouch!

I didn't think about Irene Cara. She would've been great also.

I'm not up on Broadway facts, so I didn't know Carol Channing was in the Broadway Hello Dolly [[I only knew Pearl Bailey) until recently when I watched an old TV interview of Jennifer Holliday around the time the Dreamgirls movie came out and they mentioned that it wasn't unusual for the Broadway stars to not be cast in their role in the movie version. And the reason why it was brought up? Because Jennifer actually thought she should've been considered to play the role of Effie in the movie in 2007. I think the drugs from back in the day fried some of her decision making skills. Yikes.

**reese** · 01-23-2019, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

I didn't think about Irene Cara. She would've been great also.

I'm not up on Broadway facts, so I didn't know Carol Channing was in the Broadway Hello Dolly [[I only knew Pearl Bailey) until recently when I watched an old TV interview of Jennifer Holliday around the time the Dreamgirls movie came out and they mentioned that it wasn't unusual for the Broadway stars to not be cast in their role in the movie version. And the reason why it was brought up? Because Jennifer actually thought she should've been considered to play the role of Effie in the movie in 2007. I think the drugs from back in the day fried some of her decision making skills. Yikes.

I remember reading that Jennifer did a stint in a production of DREAMGIRLS around the time of the movie, which would have made her at least 20 years too old.

There are so many more examples: THE SOUND OF MUSIC, MY FAIR LADY, MAME. All Broadway productions with a different cast when they became motion pictures. When it came to THE WIZ, only Ted Ross and Mabel King from the Broadway cast reprised their roles on film.

**sansradio** · 01-23-2019, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Now I must ponder who in the industry had a chance if you take Diana and Stephanie out of the equation. Seems like most of the people I can think of would've been a bit too young in 1978, but would've been just right if the movie was made in the early 80s. Maybe Stacy Lattisaw? I just don't know anything about her acting abilities. Janet Jackson would've been a great cast for her acting, but vocally she could not have handled Quincy's arrangements. Maybe Stephanie or Diana would've had to do the vocals and Janet lip sync. Lol

Scuttlebutt has it that Diana actually told Stephanie that Mills never stood a chance and that the only Dorothys that the producers would consider were Ross, Lola Falana and Melba Moore. This story has been attributed to Stephanie herself; if true, I wonder if this pic captures that moment. It would certainly explain the uncomfortable look on Stephanie's face.

**reese** · 01-23-2019, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by sansradio

Scuttlebutt has it that Diana actually told Stephanie that Mills never stood a chance and that the only Dorothys that the producers would consider were Ross, Lola Falana and Melba Moore. This story has been attributed to Stephanie herself; if true, I wonder if this pic captures that moment. It would certainly explain the uncomfortable look on Stephanie's face.

Can't say whether that story is true or not. But I find it hard to believe that Diana would actually say such a hurtful thing to Stephanie. Not to mention that I don't see Lola or Melba being given the role, either.

To me, the photo above captures Diana and Stephanie having a regular conversation. I don't see anything particularly sad or stressed about Stephanie's expression.

**RanRan79** · 01-23-2019, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by reese

I remember reading that Jennifer did a stint in a production of DREAMGIRLS around the time of the movie, which would have made her at least 20 years too old.

There are so many more examples: THE SOUND OF MUSIC, MY FAIR LADY, MAME. All Broadway productions with a different cast when they became motion pictures. When it came to THE WIZ, only Ted Ross and Mabel King from the Broadway cast reprised their roles on film.

I can understand her playing Effie on stage. The way people come across in a live show like that IMO allows for a greater liberty with things like age. But cinema? Can you imagine Jennifer standing next to Beyonce and Anika, pretending they are all in the same age group? Lol

However, I did understand Jennifer's point about at the very least being given a cameo. After all, Jennifer's "And I Am Telling You" vocal performance is arguably the reason the play became the success that it was/is and led to the movie. The woman should've been given something.

**RanRan79** · 01-23-2019, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by sansradio

Scuttlebutt has it that Diana actually told Stephanie that Mills never stood a chance and that the only Dorothys that the producers would consider were Ross, Lola Falana and Melba Moore. This story has been attributed to Stephanie herself; if true, I wonder if this pic captures that moment. It would certainly explain the uncomfortable look on Stephanie's face.

LOL Sans I doubt the moment was captured on film. I don't see a world where any of those women are considered for the part. Ross got it because she campaigned for it and then some folks saw dollar signs, but even she was never the original target, right?

**RanRan79** · 01-23-2019, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by reese

Can't say whether that story is true or not. But I find it hard to believe that Diana would actually say such a hurtful thing to Stephanie. Not to mention that I don't see Lola or Melba being given the role, either.

To me, the photo above captures Diana and Stephanie having a regular conversation. I don't see anything particularly sad or stressed about Stephanie's expression.

Yeah, I don't see anything unusual about Stephanie's expression. Who knows what she was doing with her mouth in that moment. Sucking a piece of candy, maybe?

I could see Diana telling Stephanie that. Maybe Diana felt like she had to explain herself to Stephanie and hoped the comment might lighten the disappointment. What's worse: thinking a part has been stolen from you or knowing that you were never even considered? Personally I'm not sure which one would bother me most. One would piss me off, the other would sadden me for sure.

In any case, it doesn't seem like Stephanie held any negative feelings about Diana in the years since. And one thing about Stephanie Mills: don't let the tiny lady fool ya, she speaks her mind and lets it all hang out.

**reese** · 01-23-2019, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

In any case, it doesn't seem like Stephanie held any negative feelings about Diana in the years since. And one thing about Stephanie Mills: don't let the tiny lady fool ya, she speaks her mind and lets it all hang out.

Most definitely. I hadn't seen Stephanie in years when she made an appearance on SISTER CIRCLE. She had some very definite opinions about being the mother of a black son and the industry's treatment of black artists and she wasn't afraid to share.

**PeaceNHarmony** · 01-23-2019, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by reese

Can't say whether that story is true or not. But I find it hard to believe that Diana would actually say such a hurtful thing to Stephanie. Not to mention that I don't see Lola or Melba being given the role, either.

To me, the photo above captures Diana and Stephanie having a regular conversation. I don't see anything particularly sad or stressed about Stephanie's expression.

I don't see sad or stressed either; it's just a poor picture of an attractive young lady. My own 'lemon' comment was merely a bit o' humor. WHICH we MUST NEVER have here! The thought of Lola Falana or Melba Moore being offered the Dorothy part is utterly absurd. Both talented, both the same age as Diana, neither the national name recognition ... Just thinking of Lola's ur-Vegas performance style playing Dorothy is quite a hoot!

**sansradio** · 01-23-2019, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

I don't see sad or stressed either; it's just a poor picture of an attractive young lady. My own 'lemon' comment was merely a bit o' humor. WHICH we MUST NEVER have here! The thought of Lola Falana or Melba Moore being offered the Dorothy part is utterly absurd. Both talented, both the same age as Diana, neither the national name recognition ... Just thinking of Lola's ur-Vegas performance style playing Dorothy is quite a hoot!

Scroll past the first two clippings, read, and weep:

https://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.co...ephanie-mills/

**midnightman** · 01-23-2019, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Stephanie Mills was never going to get the role in that movie.

It's not hard to argue against Diana playing the role of Dorothy at the time, seeing how the role has historically been a young girl and it would've made sense to continue the tradition. But I also see the temptation of taking the risk once the script was changed to that of a young woman afraid to walk into the independent chapter of her life. I think had people not focused on the way the role was written originally that the movie would've been a bigger box office success, as Dorothy's new issue was a timeless one that millions could relate to.

But if the role had been kept as originally intended, Stephanie didn't have a chance in hell. She may have been a fine fit for Broadway, but she did not have a big screen face. And that's no shade at her looks or me trying to be funny. It has been only in recent- very recent- years that Black women considered to be "unconventionally" beautiful are now being allowed to showcase their acting abilities as box office draws. But in the 70s? Yeah right. Stephanie, with her darker skin and face that was mostly nose? They weren't giving that girl that kind of high profile role no matter if she originated the role in The Wiz, or even if she wrote it and directed it her damn self. Stephanie Mills was never going to be big screen Dorothy. So I don't know how much fighting she could've done.

True... but wasn't Stephanie supposed to do it originally? Or is that something someone made up?

**midnightman** · 01-23-2019, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Yeah, I don't see anything unusual about Stephanie's expression. Who knows what she was doing with her mouth in that moment. Sucking a piece of candy, maybe?

I could see Diana telling Stephanie that. Maybe Diana felt like she had to explain herself to Stephanie and hoped the comment might lighten the disappointment. What's worse: thinking a part has been stolen from you or knowing that you were never even considered? Personally I'm not sure which one would bother me most. One would piss me off, the other would sadden me for sure.

In any case, it doesn't seem like Stephanie held any negative feelings about Diana in the years since. And one thing about Stephanie Mills: don't let the tiny lady fool ya, she speaks her mind and lets it all hang out.

Stephanie was indeed chewing on something and from what I gathered, she has much respect for Diana...

**reese** · 01-23-2019, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by sansradio

Scroll past the first two clippings, read, and weep:

https://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.co...ephanie-mills/

I shall weep.

I still can't imagine being so blunt, but I gather like Ran Ran said: is it worse to think the role was stolen, or is it worse to know you never had a chance in the first place?

**PeaceNHarmony** · 01-23-2019, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by sansradio

Scroll past the first two clippings, read, and weep:

https://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.co...ephanie-mills/

Goodness. THAT'S an encyclopedia, not clippings! A quick scan lead one line to stand out, something about Michael being a queen of cooking and having some sort of discharge? Anyhoo I like this one:
About not getting the part of Dorothy in The Wiz:
“I am a big fan of Diana Ross so it really didn’t bother me at all ’cause, honey Michael was coming to my dressing room every day and I wasn’t thinking about The Wiz. I went to the set with him when they were filming so I didn’t think of it like it was devastating.”

**PeaceNHarmony** · 01-23-2019, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by reese

I shall weep.

I still can't imagine being so blunt, but I gather like Ran Ran said: is it worse to think the role was stolen, or is it worse to know you never had a chance in the first place?

1. The worst is the thought of Lola Falana as Dorothy [[just about the only thang Lola don't never do was 'innocent'. 2. Lotsa actors don't get parts they want. Part o' the biz.

**midnightman** · 01-23-2019, 08:51 PM

I wonder if Stephanie turned down doing Unsung because, besides from feeling insulted they would think she was "unsung" instead of a legend, that they wanted to see if there was drama and there wasn't much lol

She is pretty outspoken.

**reese** · 01-23-2019, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I wonder if Stephanie turned down doing Unsung because, besides from feeling insulted they would think she was "unsung" instead of a legend, that they wanted to see if there was drama and there wasn't much lol

She is pretty outspoken.

I suspect there is drama but she probably feels it is no one's business. Myself, I always wondered what happened between she and MCA. She had gotten really hot with the IF I WERE YOUR WOMAN and HOME albums. Then she had one album, SOMETHING REAL, that didn't do so well, and the next thing I knew, she was no longer on MCA and has only recorded sporadically since.

**midnightman** · 01-23-2019, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by reese

I suspect there is drama but she probably feels it is no one's business. Myself, I always wondered what happened between she and MCA. She had gotten really hot with the IF I WERE YOUR WOMAN and HOME albums. Then she had one album, SOMETHING REAL, that didn't do so well, and the next thing I knew, she was no longer on MCA and has only recorded sporadically since.

I wonder if MCA was putting their money behind the younger R&B divas like Chante...

**sansradio** · 01-23-2019, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

Goodness. THAT'S an encyclopedia, not clippings! A quick scan lead one line to stand out, something about Michael being a queen of cooking and having some sort of discharge? Anyhoo I like this one:
About not getting the part of Dorothy in The Wiz:
“I am a big fan of Diana Ross so it really didn’t bother me at all ’cause, honey Michael was coming to my dressing room every day and I wasn’t thinking about The Wiz. I went to the set with him when they were filming so I didn’t think of it like it was devastating.”

I’m not letting you off that easily. It’s very simple—as I noted, there are two reproductions of actual newspaper clippings that appear about midpage. Directly beneath them is my proof.

**sansradio** · 01-24-2019, 01:20 AM

And don’t sleep on Lola’s range. She was more than adept at projecting innocence:

**Ollie9** · 01-24-2019, 06:19 AM

Is there any truth in the rumour that Mary Wilson was briefly considered for the part of Dororthy in the film version of The Wiz.

**PeaceNHarmony** · 01-24-2019, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Ollie9

Is there any truth in the rumour that Mary Wilson was briefly considered for the part of Dororthy in the film version of The Wiz.

Now now. Let's not be so mean.

**Ollie9** · 01-24-2019, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony

Now now. Let's not be so mean.

Your right, It's not even April 1st.

**RanRan79** · 01-24-2019, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

True... but wasn't Stephanie supposed to do it originally? Or is that something someone made up?

I think Stephanie's name was just naturally in any conversation about the movie because she was the breakout star of the play. I just find it hard to believe the people with the power to hire her ever considered her.

**RanRan79** · 01-24-2019, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I wonder if Stephanie turned down doing Unsung because, besides from feeling insulted they would think she was "unsung" instead of a legend, that they wanted to see if there was drama and there wasn't much lol

She is pretty outspoken.

I doubt Stephanie's life has any more an absence of drama than any other. She's special but she aint that damn special where she gets out of life without going through some stuff. Lol I think hers was strictly about feeling as though the title of the show did not accurately represent her status. Sadly, the folks at TVone didn't take the hint that there needed to be a separate show for telling the stories of our musical legends who don't fit the "unsung" criteria. I hate that the whole show is built behind the negativity that is associated with someone being "unsung". I had high hopes for TVone but they aren't living up to them.

**RanRan79** · 01-24-2019, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by reese

I suspect there is drama but she probably feels it is no one's business. Myself, I always wondered what happened between she and MCA. She had gotten really hot with the IF I WERE YOUR WOMAN and HOME albums. Then she had one album, SOMETHING REAL, that didn't do so well, and the next thing I knew, she was no longer on MCA and has only recorded sporadically since.

Didn't she have a baby in the early to mid 90s? I was under the impression- wrong as it may be- that the lull in her recording career was because she was focusing on motherhood. That and the fact that the industry was starting to largely ignore Black singers of a certain age.

**RanRan79** · 01-24-2019, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Ollie9

Is there any truth in the rumour that Mary Wilson was briefly considered for the part of Dororthy in the film version of The Wiz.

IMO that's even more absurd than my suggestion in the Berry Gordy Executive Producer thread that Mary Wilson produce Diana's next album.

**reese** · 01-24-2019, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Didn't she have a baby in the early to mid 90s? I was under the impression- wrong as it may be- that the lull in her recording career was because she was focusing on motherhood. That and the fact that the industry was starting to largely ignore Black singers of a certain age.

She does have a son with Down's Syndrome so I'm sure a lot of her time has been devoted to his care.

**marybrewster** · 01-24-2019, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by reese

I remember reading that Jennifer did a stint in a production of DREAMGIRLS around the time of the movie, which would have made her at least 20 years too old.

There are so many more examples: THE SOUND OF MUSIC, MY FAIR LADY, MAME. All Broadway productions with a different cast when they became motion pictures. When it came to THE WIZ, only Ted Ross and Mabel King from the Broadway cast reprised their roles on film.

Mame in its original form in 1956 [[as a play) starred Rosalind Russell. When the film came out 2 years later, Russell reprised her role.

When it became a musical in 1966 it starred Angela Landsbury with Bea Arthur and Jane Connell. Both Arthur and Connell reprised their roles in 1974 for film, but I'll never figure how they chose Lucy over Angela.