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  1. #51
    I wonder if Marv2 would render his opinion on what derailed them during this time. I think Pedro Ferrer's management of the group was clearly a misstep. Being an expert on all things Mary-related, I wonder if Marv would agree.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I wonder if Marv2 would render his opinion on what derailed them during this time. I think Pedro Ferrer's management of the group was clearly a misstep. Being an expert on all things Mary-related, I wonder if Marv would agree.
    I do not agree. First of all Wayne Wiesbart was the Supremes manager at this time. Lyndsa Laurence was showing out and Ewart Abner and Motown had had enough of the BS!

  3. #53
    Pedro wasn't involved with the Supremes during the time of IGIMTM. I believe mary met pedro in 73 in Puerto Rico. while he certainly made questionable managerial decisions, he was not responsible for any of the problems that occurred while Jean was around

  4. #54
    I tend to think there was some hesitation on Mary’s part to change particularly when it came to their image. The Supremes were all about glamour and ditching it all may not have transitioned well. I think it just needed to be reimagined. Someone should have put their foot down when it came to bringing out the 60s gowns. It just didn’t help them especially by the time Scherrie was introduced. As for music, I think Mary was open to whatever worked hence Jimmy Webb, Stevie, disco, etc. Motown was certainly dropping the ball by 1972, but with bringing on Pedro they were finished. Pedro was a torpedo to the boat.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I tend to think there was some hesitation on Mary’s part to change particularly when it came to their image. The Supremes were all about glamour and ditching it all may not have transitioned well. I think it just needed to be reimagined. Someone should have put their foot down when it came to bringing out the 60s gowns. It just didn’t help them especially by the time Scherrie was introduced. As for music, I think Mary was open to whatever worked hence Jimmy Webb, Stevie, disco, etc. Motown was certainly dropping the ball by 1972, but with bringing on Pedro they were finished. Pedro was a torpedo to the boat.
    Motown really dropped th ball i.e.. "Bend A Little". Why this song was left in the can I will never understand

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I tend to think there was some hesitation on Mary’s part to change particularly when it came to their image. The Supremes were all about glamour and ditching it all may not have transitioned well. I think it just needed to be reimagined. Someone should have put their foot down when it came to bringing out the 60s gowns. It just didn’t help them especially by the time Scherrie was introduced. As for music, I think Mary was open to whatever worked hence Jimmy Webb, Stevie, disco, etc. Motown was certainly dropping the ball by 1972, but with bringing on Pedro they were finished. Pedro was a torpedo to the boat.
    See you guys say that all the time, but that is not how it was at all and you give Pedro Ferrer way too much power in your imaginations of what actually went on. Truth be told (and that is what I do, hehehehehe) there would have not been any "Supremes" after 1973 had it not been for Mary and Pedro. Motown is the one that pulled resources, etc from the act! I think you guys read the books and mix up too much of Mary Wilson's and Pedro Ferrer personal martial problems in with what went on with the group and business. They were a Motown signed act and Motown was ultimately responsible!
    Last edited by marv2; 01-10-2019 at 10:09 PM.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by rod_rick View Post
    Motown really dropped th ball i.e.. "Bend A Little". Why this song was left in the can I will never understand
    Exactly! Motown didn't care if they had recorded that song or anything else by that point.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by rod_rick View Post
    Motown really dropped th ball i.e.. "Bend A Little". Why this song was left in the can I will never understand
    That is my absolute favorite amongst the previously unreleased tracks from the Scherrie years. What a dynamite performance by Scherrie who in my opinion could out sing just about anyone. I liked it when it was just an instrumental track on one of the "Disc-o-Tech" albums and when I heard it vocalized I couldn't believe it had been left in the can either!

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    See you guys say that all the time, but that is not how it was at all and you give Pedro Ferrer way too much power in your imaginations of what actually went on. Truth be told (and that is what I do, hehehehehe) there would have not been any "Supremes" after 1973 had it not been for Mary and Pedro. Motown is the one that pulled resources, etc from the act! I think you guys read the books and mix up too much of Mary Wilson's and Pedro Ferrer personal martial problems in with what went on with the group and business. They were a Motown signed act and Motown was ultimately responsible!
    He’s the reason why Cindy Birdsong was fired.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    He’s the reason why Cindy Birdsong was fired.
    Cindy had a hand in it too though. Another very prominent Motown artist also encouraged it. I know it's hard stuff, the truth, but as they say, it is what it is or it was what it was.......

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    See you guys say that all the time, but that is not how it was at all and you give Pedro Ferrer way too much power in your imaginations of what actually went on. Truth be told (and that is what I do, hehehehehe) there would have not been any "Supremes" after 1973 had it not been for Mary and Pedro. Motown is the one that pulled resources, etc from the act! I think you guys read the books and mix up too much of Mary Wilson's and Pedro Ferrer personal martial problems in with what went on with the group and business. They were a Motown signed act and Motown was ultimately responsible!
    You always defend wife beaters and abusive mysoginists like Pedro Ferrer and Cosby and Ike Turner. Smh. Next thing youll be saying is the Fake one in the WH never said he can just grab women by the pus*y.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I do not agree. First of all Wayne Wiesbart was the Supremes manager at this time. Lyndsa Laurence was showing out and Ewart Abner and Motown had had enough of the BS!
    You dont agree that your an expert on all things Mary related? Thats real humbling. I respect your honesty.

  13. #63
    Lemme try to steer this thread back before it's closed down but what happened with the Supremes is what happened to a lot of groups once they achieve success for so long, after ten years, your label deserts you for someone new. They did that to Aretha and the Spinners on Atlantic. Ray Charles' career, after nearly ten years of nonstop commercial success, on ABC began fading out by 1968. The Supremes could've try to find a way to salvage the '70s like the Temptations did in releasing cutting-edge music, getting with the times but still maintaining the glamour that helped to make them. The Temptations found a way to evolve better than most vocal groups, why couldn't the Supremes? I'd pick a single better than I Guess I'll Miss the Man first off.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Lemme try to steer this thread back before it's closed down but what happened with the Supremes is what happened to a lot of groups once they achieve success for so long, after ten years, your label deserts you for someone new. They did that to Aretha and the Spinners on Atlantic. Ray Charles' career, after nearly ten years of nonstop commercial success, on ABC began fading out by 1968. The Supremes could've try to find a way to salvage the '70s like the Temptations did in releasing cutting-edge music, getting with the times but still maintaining the glamour that helped to make them. The Temptations found a way to evolve better than most vocal groups, why couldn't the Supremes? I'd pick a single better than I Guess I'll Miss the Man first off.
    You’re right. It all goes back to direction. I think after the promotion of the Floy Joy material with Lynda’s entrance and seeing how poorly “Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love” charted (should have charted much higher in my book), Motown, the girls, their manager, etc all should have sit down and planned out their next steps. If Jimmy Webb came in with idea to do their next album much like what he would do a few years later for the 5th Dimension on the Earthbound album then I’d say go for it. But the direction that he proposed and its sound was totally wrong for what they needed. By this time a lot of Motown artists, songwriters, and producers were jumping ship. I know Norman Whitfield was getting close to departing, but I have to wonder what he could have brought to the girls’ sound in path of Rose Royce’s “Ooo Boy.” Maybe if the girls paired with Stevie sooner it could have put a little more wind into the sails. I know Motown was against bringing in outside people, but maybe pairing them with Curtis Mayfield could have relit the fire. I know we can’t change the past, but it does make you wonder if it had been done differently what the rest could have been.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by rod_rick View Post
    Motown really dropped th ball i.e.. "Bend A Little". Why this song was left in the can I will never understand
    This was a minor little gem that should not have been left in the can. It beggars belief that the appallingly dull and dreary "where is it i belong" made the final cut yet a potential hit like Bend a little was left off.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    You’re right. It all goes back to direction. I think after the promotion of the Floy Joy material with Lynda’s entrance and seeing how poorly “Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love” charted (should have charted much higher in my book), Motown, the girls, their manager, etc all should have sit down and planned out their next steps. If Jimmy Webb came in with idea to do their next album much like what he would do a few years later for the 5th Dimension on the Earthbound album then I’d say go for it. But the direction that he proposed and its sound was totally wrong for what they needed. By this time a lot of Motown artists, songwriters, and producers were jumping ship. I know Norman Whitfield was getting close to departing, but I have to wonder what he could have brought to the girls’ sound in path of Rose Royce’s “Ooo Boy.” Maybe if the girls paired with Stevie sooner it could have put a little more wind into the sails. I know Motown was against bringing in outside people, but maybe pairing them with Curtis Mayfield could have relit the fire. I know we can’t change the past, but it does make you wonder if it had been done differently what the rest could have been.
    I like the Curtis Mayfield idea very much! I wished that could have happened. Look at the work he did with Gladys Knight and the Pips and Aretha Franklin........whew!

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    See you guys say that all the time, but that is not how it was at all and you give Pedro Ferrer way too much power in your imaginations of what actually went on. Truth be told (and that is what I do, hehehehehe) there would have not been any "Supremes" after 1973 had it not been for Mary and Pedro. Motown is the one that pulled resources, etc from the act! I think you guys read the books and mix up too much of Mary Wilson's and Pedro Ferrer personal martial problems in with what went on with the group and business. They were a Motown signed act and Motown was ultimately responsible!
    i do think you're correct Marv. Mary was the one that pushed for the group beyond 73. and very possibly with Pedro supporting her, it wouldn't have happened. She absolutely was the one that somehow got motown and berry to (even reluctantly) give them a second chance.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    You’re right. It all goes back to direction. I think after the promotion of the Floy Joy material with Lynda’s entrance and seeing how poorly “Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love” charted (should have charted much higher in my book), Motown, the girls, their manager, etc all should have sit down and planned out their next steps. If Jimmy Webb came in with idea to do their next album much like what he would do a few years later for the 5th Dimension on the Earthbound album then I’d say go for it. But the direction that he proposed and its sound was totally wrong for what they needed. By this time a lot of Motown artists, songwriters, and producers were jumping ship. I know Norman Whitfield was getting close to departing, but I have to wonder what he could have brought to the girls’ sound in path of Rose Royce’s “Ooo Boy.” Maybe if the girls paired with Stevie sooner it could have put a little more wind into the sails. I know Motown was against bringing in outside people, but maybe pairing them with Curtis Mayfield could have relit the fire. I know we can’t change the past, but it does make you wonder if it had been done differently what the rest could have been.
    all very interesting ideas. I think also right that there should have been more of a collective effort to sit down and thoughtfully plan the future road map for the group. but i don't know if that's really Mary's strong point - group management. I do think, based on my own opinion and what i've read, she was largely the one grasping onto the older supremes image and could possibly have been the one really hesitant about evolving it too much.

    the group needed someone that had a sharp ear and eye towards what trends were emerging in the 70s. music was continuing to diversify and there should have been an opportunity for them to do something unique and worthwhile in the mid 70s. I do think the move in the later 70s to disco was a good one for them and, had some significant problems been erased or solved, the group could have really found a new hit period

  19. #69
    I am going to add my two cents on “Bend A Little.” I think the track was HOT. Aggressive and danceable, to be sure. The chorus of “bend a little, give a little, that’s all we gotta doooooo!” good, but I think the verses are weak—both in that they aren’t memorable AND they’re kind of lost in the mix. I can hum the tune, but I can’t tell you the lyrics. Great opportunity with the track, but maybe it was rejected because of the reasons I stated above? Maybe it wasn’t worth writing new lyrics or maybe there was too little time to remix it? I’m glad we have had the track on a few sets in the last 10 years or so. It would’ve been fine on SUPREMES ‘75 as an album cut. I just don’t see it—as is—as the lost answer to the group’s prayers at that time.

    As for “Where Is It I Belong,” I like the ballad aspect of it for Mary’s sake. She sounds good, though she’d admittedly had better ballads released between 1970-1977. I think the song needed more lyrical work and maybe a key change at some point modulating up towards the end. Those who want to gripe about the “he was Capricorn and a love was born” lyric should remember that DRATS sang an entire song about astrology and love, so... one line doesn’t ruin the song—just dates it a bit. I don’t think it was intended as a song with single potential, but it’s a good album track.

    There were only 10 tracks on the album; it should’ve been filled with 12—and we now know there were still plenty of good songs from recording for this album that were left in the can.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    I am going to add my two cents on “Bend A Little.” I think the track was HOT. Aggressive and danceable, to be sure. The chorus of “bend a little, give a little, that’s all we gotta doooooo!” good, but I think the verses are weak—both in that they aren’t memorable AND they’re kind of lost in the mix. I can hum the tune, but I can’t tell you the lyrics. Great opportunity with the track, but maybe it was rejected because of the reasons I stated above? Maybe it wasn’t worth writing new lyrics or maybe there was too little time to remix it? I’m glad we have had the track on a few sets in the last 10 years or so. It would’ve been fine on SUPREMES ‘75 as an album cut. I just don’t see it—as is—as the lost answer to the group’s prayers at that time.

    As for “Where Is It I Belong,” I like the ballad aspect of it for Mary’s sake. She sounds good, though she’d admittedly had better ballads released between 1970-1977. I think the song needed more lyrical work and maybe a key change at some point modulating up towards the end. Those who want to gripe about the “he was Capricorn and a love was born” lyric should remember that DRATS sang an entire song about astrology and love, so... one line doesn’t ruin the song—just dates it a bit. I don’t think it was intended as a song with single potential, but it’s a good album track.

    There were only 10 tracks on the album; it should’ve been filled with 12—and we now know there were still plenty of good songs from recording for this album that were left in the can.
    Two years later, the Floaters also out of Detroit had a number one Pop hit with "Float On". Each member of the group introduced themselves by first giving their Zodiac sign.....ugh! LOL!

  21. #71
    I think The Supremes’ biggest mistake by late 1972 and through mid-1973 was that they went backwards for their shows. As many people have expressed here, they should have sat down, taken a closer look at what was working, what wasn’t, and then moved FORWARD. I love the classic Supremes music, but they were rearranging it so much while still keeping it in the show, that it I’d bet it was losing its appeal to their live audiences. As has been said before, they should have been focusing on featuring full versions of the ‘70s hits and their album cuts. How about a MOTOWN ‘70s HITS medley or group of full songs sung under that idea? There were plenty of good songs from Jackson 5, Marvin, Stevie, Miracles, and even maybe Diana that they could’ve tackled.

    Regarding wardrobe choices, I thought there was still a selection of contemporary gowns being used in addition to the late ‘60s DRATS gowns? They had those chocolate brown/black? pantsuits with the with boas and the white bugle bead “fringe” gowns. Plus JMC did several photo sessions with gowns or outfits we didn’t see in photos onstage. I think with their ‘70s outfits, they were pretty contemporary to other groups, such as The Three Degrees. If anything, the other groups of the day were either imitating their basic look or going for a (my word) sluttier look. The Supremes never were or should’ve have been marketed “slutty,” so that was a smart choice to avoid giant belly cutouts or high side slits. I agree with someone else (forgive me forgetting who) who basically said their choice of ball gown styles was not smart. Sleek gowns and pantsuits would’ve been better for showing off disco dance choreography. All this said, by 1976/77, all 1960s era gowns should have been OUT of their wardrobe (and into storage) and they should’ve stuck to any gowns/outfits from 1974 forward. The black velvet/gold brocade/teardrop pearls gowns (I won’t be giving it some fantastical fake name!) should have been GONE. If they’d had three super-contemporary outfits/gowns to keep rotating through by 1976-77, that could’ve helped. I know all their old (late 1960s) wardrobe was designer-made and expensive, but that wasn’t enough (in my opinion) to warrant their continued use through 1977. Imagine 1970 JMC wearing the simple red velvet gowns DMF wore in late 1964? Pretty gowns, but the style was out. By 1976, why was the group still bothering to wear 1969 designs? These were dramatic stage outfits—not classic, simple outfits that could make the transition through the years (such as a simple Chanel dress).

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Two years later, the Floaters also out of Detroit had a number one Pop hit with "Float On". Each member of the group introduced themselves by first giving their Zodiac sign.....ugh! LOL!
    Yeah, it sounds silly (even somewhat embarrassing) now, but that was contemporary. Go to a bar/disco in the mid ‘70s and that’s what many people were asking one another to find a connection. I also think of the back of the Vandellas’ “Black Magic” album—each girl had their astrology sign detailed and that was early 1972!

  23. #73
    I recall they wore those black pants and silverish blouses on Dinah Shore and I think another show. I always thought they looked good

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I recall they wore those black pants and silverish blouses on Dinah Shore and I think another show. I always thought they looked good
    Luke, I think those continued to work from 1970/71 because they were simple and not overly dated. If they’d had collars that reached down to mid-chest, for example, they would’ve looked dumb by 1975. Using those for years wasn’t a bad choice—especially for a daytime talk show.

  25. #75
    agree that Bend A Little wasn't a lost hit. to me, it's generic disco. any group could have sung it and done fine. perfectly fine to include as an album track.

    Can We Love Again should have been the Mary ballad on Sup 75. although it could use a little touch up on the choruses, it helps broaden mary's songs. she had done plenty of true ballads up to this point and so something with a little more of a beat would have helped showcase more of her range.

    Seed of love was a pretty good track, although the title is a bit touch-in-cheek hehehe

    There was ample material to do a solid pop album in early 75

    it's all been said
    can't stop a girl
    color my world
    give out
    you turn me around

    shoop shoop
    where is it i belong
    seed of love
    can we love again
    sha la bandit

    then they could have done a disco lp, done a little extended remixes and had something like:

    he's My man
    early morning
    this is why
    where do i go

    I can never recover
    Bend a little
    dance fever
    mr boogie

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    Yeah, it sounds silly (even somewhat embarrassing) now, but that was contemporary. Go to a bar/disco in the mid ‘70s and that’s what many people were asking one another to find a connection. I also think of the back of the Vandellas’ “Black Magic” album—each girl had their astrology sign detailed and that was early 1972!
    I had a laminated poster on wood of the Gemini Twins! Actually, I wish I still had it!

  27. #77
    I know everyone loved “It’s All Been Said Before” and thought it could have hit, but I think “The Sha-La Bandit” had strong potential. It’s a shame it was canned. Around this time there seemed to a little throwback to the late 50s/early 60s sound in songs. “The Sha-La Bandit” had a similar throwback feel with the “sha-la-la’s” and it’s a shame Motown didn’t take notice and give the song a chance.

  28. #78
    This one my favorites from that set in 1975. Extended here:


  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    You’re right. It all goes back to direction. I think after the promotion of the Floy Joy material with Lynda’s entrance and seeing how poorly “Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love” charted (should have charted much higher in my book), Motown, the girls, their manager, etc all should have sit down and planned out their next steps. If Jimmy Webb came in with idea to do their next album much like what he would do a few years later for the 5th Dimension on the Earthbound album then I’d say go for it. But the direction that he proposed and its sound was totally wrong for what they needed. By this time a lot of Motown artists, songwriters, and producers were jumping ship. I know Norman Whitfield was getting close to departing, but I have to wonder what he could have brought to the girls’ sound in path of Rose Royce’s “Ooo Boy.” Maybe if the girls paired with Stevie sooner it could have put a little more wind into the sails. I know Motown was against bringing in outside people, but maybe pairing them with Curtis Mayfield could have relit the fire. I know we can’t change the past, but it does make you wonder if it had been done differently what the rest could have been.
    When the Supremes began being produced by Stevie, it was too little too late... I mean it could've worked but Motown never took Stevie's productions outside his own work seriously. We saw the way Syreeta's albums were treated and Stevie put his footprint on them.

  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    Yeah, it sounds silly (even somewhat embarrassing) now, but that was contemporary. Go to a bar/disco in the mid ‘70s and that’s what many people were asking one another to find a connection. I also think of the back of the Vandellas’ “Black Magic” album—each girl had their astrology sign detailed and that was early 1972!
    Not to mention a lot of artists who got on Soul Train and when the dancers would interviewed them, they'd say what their sign was and you hear a lot of "yeah right ons!". LOL

  31. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I know everyone loved “It’s All Been Said Before” and thought it could have hit, but I think “The Sha-La Bandit” had strong potential. It’s a shame it was canned. Around this time there seemed to a little throwback to the late 50s/early 60s sound in songs. “The Sha-La Bandit” had a similar throwback feel with the “sha-la-la’s” and it’s a shame Motown didn’t take notice and give the song a chance.
    This was the 1974-75 period. Yeah it could've worked if anyone besides Berry cared enough to push them. Motown was at a different phase than it was and it's a shame. Ewart Abner, dude... *sigh* I do like their version of Sha-La Bandit though.

  32. #82
    I think we can all agree that the quality of talent and the quality of the music the Supremes produce was not lacking in any regard. The situation with the record company is where the problems really were.

  33. #83
    I didn’t like it’s all been said before ...strange song. Loved Sha la la version with all 3 ladies singing lead. Could have been a left field hit.
    Last edited by luke; 01-12-2019 at 01:33 AM.

  34. #84

    we were talking about IGIMTM so here that live version from 1972

  35. #85
    IGIMTM is one of Jeans masterpieces (along with 5.30 Plane.... and that's all the pos. vibe I can give to the JW tracks!)….the song was performed LIVE on TV at least 3 times....and each time Jean nailed it...my pers. fave is the Soul Train clip...I've said it before...IGIMTM needed to be marketed and broke first on AC/Light Rock, and then it could have crossed into the broader Pop charts. It's acoustic guitar intro is right in time with much of the singer/songwriter material of the time....Bad Weather was too jazz tinged for AM pop airplay...the horns today actually sound like a bad attempt at Stax, and the hokey choreography was laughable...especially in gowns....Touch should have been followed with either Have I Lost You or Here Comes The Sunrise....after NJ they were the most radio friendly cuts on an excellent LP...the male voice on YWSSL is distracting and unnecessary...a percussion break and instrumental re-build up would have been enough.

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by rod_rick View Post
    Motown really dropped th ball i.e.. "Bend A Little". Why this song was left in the can I will never understand
    amen, i totally agree, when i heard this song i thought OMG WTF.what dumbazz left this in the can

  37. #87
    imo, there were a lot of reason why the supremes were having problems.
    first, BG was closing down the detroit location and opening a new office in LA. wasnt Floy Joy one of the last albums to be recorded in detroit?
    to me, this was a major set back not only for the supremes but for motown all together.in a few years after,almost every artist would leave motown. BG left everyone behind except a few.
    the group also was suffering internally. i think Jean wanted out and Lynda left almost the same time. having the ladies sing Youre No Body till somebody loves you.....WTF. seriously.
    but motown made mistakes with diana as well as the supremes. motown released the album EIE in 1970 ,but the single IM STILL WAITING a year later. they made poor decisions, and again with her lp Baby Its Me. it was like the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. just stupid mistakes.
    to me BG no longer had his eye on the mark.
    ultimately Motown did just about everyone in, but, the ladies not getting along didn't help. I think Motown was done with them and hoped they would go away.
    looking back on it now, I think ,perhaps, the ladies were tired of MEN , telling them what to do or not to do. I think that had a lot to do with DR leaving. looking back,you have to give MW credit for standing up for herself and the group. but somehow there was to much drama going on within the group.

  38. #88
    the greatest malady for The 70's Supremes and solo Diana Ross was The Ed Sullivan Show leaving the airways; it was their showcase to let the hard core fans know that a new single had been released , as there was no internet back then.

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    the greatest malady for The 70's Supremes and solo Diana Ross was The Ed Sullivan Show leaving the airways; it was their showcase to let the hard core fans know that a new single had been released , as there was no internet back then.
    Jim, I totally agree, and with BG refusing to let DR do her solo spot on Sullivan, ig mistake. Sullivan got ticked off and cancelled the Supremes appearance for Stoned Love with the Four Tops. I don't think the Supremes were ever back on or , mybe even any Motown artist after

  40. #90
    here is a bit of an explanation about the lip syncing on the Sullivan Show, which was mostly still live


  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Jim, I totally agree, and with BG refusing to let DR do her solo spot on Sullivan, ig mistake. Sullivan got ticked off and cancelled the Supremes appearance for Stoned Love with the Four Tops. I don't think the Supremes were ever back on or , mybe even any Motown artist after

    Plus the fact that Sullivan was abruptly cancelled in March of 1971 without notice to Sullivan and the show simply showed reruns for the balance of the season. When Ed was told about the CBS decision by his producer/son-in law Bob Prect, Ed said “Well I’ll be a son of a bitch…after all I’ve done for the network over the years”.

    Ed's show was part of the CBS rural purge when they cancelled such popular shows as “The Red Skelton Show” “The Jackie Gleason Show” “The Beverly Hillbillies”, “Green Acres”, “Petticoat Junction” and “Hee Haw”. CBS “rural purge” was based on the idea of dumping the older shows in search of the younger audience that advertisers would pay more for.

    Then there is the fact that Ed was already suffering the earlier signs of dementia. Perhaps that explains his intro of the Supremes as "Here they are....the girls".

    Considering that Ed's show had been on since the very beginning of TV in 1948, I think it was heartless for the show to be abruptly cancelled as it was. He was not even able to do a proper farewell show. It could have been the rating sensation of the year. Ed Sullivan deserved better than the treatment he received by CBS’s managers in his final days there.

    He died three years later in 1974

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Jim, I totally agree, and with BG refusing to let DR do her solo spot on Sullivan, ig mistake. Sullivan got ticked off and cancelled the Supremes appearance for Stoned Love with the Four Tops. I don't think the Supremes were ever back on or , mybe even any Motown artist after
    the temptations and Gladys Knight and the pips were in there

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    and i think the sounds is quite pretty. i like the simplicity and all.

    but a pretty song doesn't always equal a hit. i think as the song is, it should have charted FAR higher than it did. sure maybe it would never have been a #1, or maybe if they'd tweaked it a few ways it might have been better. but my take on why it failed in fall of 72 is as stated above. i think the group's then-current recording reputation was rapidly diminishing, radio programmers were thinking no one really cares much about them any more, the public and press were wondering why so many girls were in the group and meanwhile motown was focused elsewhere.

    that's why the record didn't get played on radio much, IMO
    I think Mary mentions this very same thing in SUPREME FAITH: I'm paraphrasing here, but a local DJ says something to the effect that the Supremes are no longer recording and that there no original members. I'M SURE SOMEONE WILL CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG LOL. He goes on to play "Tossin'" from JW.

    But I think the general consensus was that the Supremes had started to fade with their outdated imagage: bouffant wigs and 40 pound sequined gowns, while Roberta Flack is flying up the charts in her afro and polyester slacks.

  44. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I think Mary mentions this very same thing in SUPREME FAITH: I'm paraphrasing here, but a local DJ says something to the effect that the Supremes are no longer recording and that there no original members. I'M SURE SOMEONE WILL CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG LOL. He goes on to play "Tossin'" from JW.

    But I think the general consensus was that the Supremes had started to fade with their outdated imagage: bouffant wigs and 40 pound sequined gowns, while Roberta Flack is flying up the charts in her afro and polyester slacks.
    Yes, I remember that story from Mary's second book. Mary heard the DJ make those remarks and then called him. I think the DJ also mentions they don't have the recent single (would that have been "Bad Weather"?) so they played the album track from JW.

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    Yes, I remember that story from Mary's second book. Mary heard the DJ make those remarks and then called him. I think the DJ also mentions they don't have the recent single (would that have been "Bad Weather"?) so they played the album track from JW.
    I think it was when IGIMTM was current

  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Jim, I totally agree, and with BG refusing to let DR do her solo spot on Sullivan, ig mistake. Sullivan got ticked off and cancelled the Supremes appearance for Stoned Love with the Four Tops. I don't think the Supremes were ever back on or , mybe even any Motown artist after
    He booked Gladys Knight & the Pips around that time when they did "If I Were Your Woman"... I think them and the Temptations (with a departing Eddie Kendricks) were the last Motown acts booked on Sullivan before the show ended its run in 1971.

  47. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I think Mary mentions this very same thing in SUPREME FAITH: I'm paraphrasing here, but a local DJ says something to the effect that the Supremes are no longer recording and that there no original members. I'M SURE SOMEONE WILL CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG LOL. He goes on to play "Tossin'" from JW.

    But I think the general consensus was that the Supremes had started to fade with their outdated imagage: bouffant wigs and 40 pound sequined gowns, while Roberta Flack is flying up the charts in her afro and polyester slacks.
    1972 was the the end of the Supremes as a relevant musical act of their time, I always say. I admire Mary for trying to keep them going but it was rough.

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    1972 was the the end of the Supremes as a relevant musical act of their time, I always say. I admire Mary for trying to keep them going but it was rough.
    How and why did you pick that particular year?

  49. #99
    I don’t know how anyone could expect a hit with songs like I Guess I’ll Miss The Man and especially Bad Weather. Jean’s vocal on miss the man was great but it’s just a very plain song and was never going to be a big hit. Plus it sounded like a solo act.

    Why release that when it could have been 530 Plane?

    When an act starts to fade and stops bringing in money, no record company will keep pumping money into a losing proposition. They didn’t with the Supremes, Martha Reeves; RCA didn’t with Diana Ross when she turned 40

  50. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    1972 was the the end of the Supremes as a relevant musical act of their time, I always say. I admire Mary for trying to keep them going but it was rough.
    You are probably correct when you say the Supremes ceased to be a relevant musical act by 1972, but i stuck by them until Jean and Lynda's departure which i think was 1973? By that time it was all over but the shouting as the song goes.

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