Love Child on Ed Sullivan question

[luke]

Were Cindy and Mary’s vocals prerecorded? Is it just them?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HMcr5Cg3HKI

[marv2]

Were Cindy and Mary’s vocals prerecorded? Is it just them?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HMcr5Cg3HKI

The show was live so
I doubt if their vocals were pre-recorded. That would eliminate any additional vocals. I only here Mary , Diana and Cindy.

[marv2]

It's freakin' me out knowing that show aired 50 years ago this week! LOL!

[bradsupremes]

It's very likely Mary & Cindy recorded their vocals with the orchestra and just lip synced to it during the show while Diana sang live.

[marv2]

It's very likely Mary & Cindy recorded their vocals with the orchestra and just lip synced to it during the show while Diana sang live.

I doubt that because there would not have been any time to do that [[plus Ed Sullivan would have had to pay for it as he retained rights to everything produced for his show). They came in for the afternoon dress rehearsal and then back that evening to perform on the live show. I only remember 2 times where the Supremes lip synched on the Ed Sullivan Show. 1. When they performed "Love Child" in the Fall of '68. 2. When they performed "Up the Ladder to the Roof" in early 1970.

[marv2]

I think they also lip-synched to "No Matter What Sign You Are" in May '69.

[bradsupremes]

I doubt that because there would not have been any time to do that [[plus Ed Sullivan would have had to pay for it as he retained rights to everything produced for his show). They came in for the afternoon dress rehearsal and then back that evening to perform on the live show. I only remember 2 times where the Supremes lip synched on the Ed Sullivan Show. 1. When they performed "Love Child" in the Fall of '68. 2. When they performed "Up the Ladder to the Roof" in early 1970.

Not have any time? Of course they had time. There are photographs of Mary & Cindy with the Temptations in a studio recording their vocals for the hits medley from the November 1967 appearance. Both Mary & Cindy are wearing their gold mini-dresses from the show. With the exception of Diana, David, and Eddie trading off the microphone, the groups are lip syncing. From that same TV appearance, Mary & Cindy are lip syncing to vocals they recorded earlier that day. You can clearly see Cindy begin to lip "Keep falling" and then stop herself.

Any time you see the microphone, they are singing live. If you don't see the microphone, they are lip syncing. Diana may have had an overhead microphone, but I doubt all three especially if there was choreography was involved. Vocals for production numbers such for "Always," "I Get A Kick Out Of You/I've Got You Under My Skin," "Millie/Rose/Mame" were all recorded prior to show time. This allowed the audio to be perfect for the show without the worry of choreography hindering it.

[marv2]

Not have any time? Of course they had time. There are photographs of Mary & Cindy with the Temptations in a studio recording their vocals for the hits medley from the November 1967 appearance. Both Mary & Cindy are wearing their gold mini-dresses from the show. With the exception of Diana, David, and Eddie trading off the microphone, the groups are lip syncing. From that same TV appearance, Mary & Cindy are lip syncing to vocals they recorded earlier that day. You can clearly see Cindy begin to lip "Keep falling" and then stop herself.

Any time you see the microphone, they are singing live. If you don't see the microphone, they are lip syncing. Diana may have had an overhead microphone, but I doubt all three especially if there was choreography was involved. Vocals for production numbers such for "Always," "I Get A Kick Out Of You/I've Got You Under My Skin," "Millie/Rose/Mame" were all recorded prior to show time. This allowed the audio to be perfect for the show without the worry of choreography hindering it.

I have been in the Ed Sullivan Theater several times [[it has not changed much from when his show was broadcast from there). The ceiling above the stage is covered with boom mics hanging everywhere. The artist didn't need to even have a hand held mic. If any of them even farted, we would have heard it! I still doubt that they would have gathered all of those musicians in the orchestra for Ed Sullivan Show just to pre-record the Supremes backing vocals when they had to do the dress rehearsal and then the live show that night. If they even recorded a day or two before, Ed Sullivan would have had to pay for it all!

[bradsupremes]

1964
Come See About Me - Live

1965
You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You - Live

My World Is Empty Without You - Vocals pre-recorded or overhead microphones
Somewhere - Vocals pre-recorded or overhead microphones

1966
Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded
More - Vocals pre-recorded or overhead microphones

You Can't Hurry Love - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded
Symphony Medley - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded

My Favorite Things - Vocals pre-recorded
Hits Medley - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded [[or overhead microphone)

1967
The Happening - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded [[or overhead microphone)
Millie/Rose/Mame - Vocals pre-recorded

In And Out Of Love - Diana live, Mary & Cindy pre-recorded
Sups/Tempts Medley - Diana, Eddie, David live, Groups pre-recorded
Thou Swell/Greensleeves - Vocals pre-recorded

1968
Forever Came Today - Diana live, Mary & Cindy pre-recorded [[or overhead microphone)
Fats Waller Medley - Vocals pre-recorded

Always - Vocals pre-recorded [[Possibly Diana overhead microphone)
Irving Berlin Medley - Vocals pre-recorded [[Possibly Diana overhead microphone)

Love Child - Lip sync to record
Funny Girl Medley - Vocals pre-recorded [[Possibly Diana overhead microphone)

1969
Love Child - Diana live, Mary & Cindy pre-recorded
I'm Living In Shame - Lip sync to record
I Get A Kick Out Of You/I've Got You Under My Skin - Vocals pre-recorded

The Impossible Dream - Live
You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You - Live
No Matter What Sign You Are - Lip sync to record

Someday We'll Be Together - Diana live, Mary & Cindy lip sync to record
Hits Medley - Diana live, Mary & Cindy pre-recorded

1970
If They Could See Me Now/Ridin' High - Vocals pre-recorded [[Possibly Jean overhead microphone)
Up The Ladder To The Roof - Lip sync to record

[marv2]

1964
Come See About Me - Live

1965
You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You - Live

My World Is Empty Without You - Vocals pre-recorded or overhead microphones
Somewhere - Vocals pre-recorded or overhead microphones

1966
Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded
More - Vocals pre-recorded or overhead microphones

You Can't Hurry Love - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded
Symphony Medley - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded

My Favorite Things - Vocals pre-recorded
Hits Medley - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded [[or overhead microphone)

1967
The Happening - Diana live, Mary & Flo pre-recorded [[or overhead microphone)
Millie/Rose/Mame - Vocals pre-recorded

In And Out Of Love - Diana live, Mary & Cindy pre-recorded
Sups/Tempts Medley - Diana, Eddie, David live, Groups pre-recorded
Thou Swell/Greensleeves - Vocals pre-recorded

1968
Forever Came Today - Diana live, Mary & Cindy pre-recorded [[or overhead microphone)
Fats Waller Medley - Vocals pre-recorded

Always - Vocals pre-recorded [[Possibly Diana overhead microphone)
Irving Berlin Medley - Vocals pre-recorded [[Possibly Diana overhead microphone)

Love Child - Lip sync to record
Funny Girl Medley - Vocals pre-recorded [[Possibly Diana overhead microphone)

1969
Love Child - Diana live, Mary & Cindy pre-recorded
I'm Living In Shame - Lip sync to record
I Get A Kick Out Of You/I've Got You Under My Skin - Vocals pre-recorded

The Impossible Dream - Live
You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You - Live
No Matter What Sign You Are - Lip sync to record

Someday We'll Be Together - Diana live, Mary & Cindy lip sync to record
Hits Medley - Diana live, Mary & Cindy pre-recorded

1970
If They Could See Me Now/Ridin' High - Vocals pre-recorded [[Possibly Jean overhead microphone)
Up The Ladder To The Roof - Lip sync to record

That is a great list Brad. I saw all of them when they aired and had them on tape for decades now. Still, I always thought there was a missing performance. Honestly, it is hard to remember it now, but I thought they performed "Somethings You Never Get Use To" in a separate appearance from those listed and widely circulated now.

[marv2]

When they performed "Someday We'll Be Together", they must have wiped Johnny Bristol's vocals from the backing track. At one point Mary sings the "Say it" part but that was all that was included from the original recording.

[sup_fan]

the Happening in 67 is an interesting performance in that at one point [[towards the end) the background vocals cut off. and then return. Diana also starts to sing the wrong chorus towards the end but quickly jumps to the background lyrics and gets back in sync.

there are also pics of the Funny Girl medley [[assuming during rehearsal) where there are multiple boom mics overhead. i'm pretty sure that Diana is live for this. given that there were 2 or so booms, would M&C be live too? would only 1 boom have followed diana through all of her choreography around the set? or would she have moved from 1 boom to another?

[sup_fan]

one more point - often when they did a fade out ending [[No matter what sign), the video also faded out and into applause. on Someday, they fade out the tape as Diana is walking away from the girls. i've wondered if she was lip syncing or if they did that for dramatic effect.

also love how her mike changes during the hits medley of her final appearance lol. during love child. for the whole medley up to this point, she's using a mic with a domed head. then during LC the cut to clips of just Mary and just Cindy. when then return to Diana and the group shot, she's either 1) eaten the top of the mic lol 2) it broke off or 3) there were two tapings and she used two different mics. then were then edited together.

[reese]

one more point - often when they did a fade out ending [[No matter what sign), the video also faded out and into applause. on Someday, they fade out the tape as Diana is walking away from the girls. i've wondered if she was lip syncing or if they did that for dramatic effect.

also love how her mike changes during the hits medley of her final appearance lol. during love child. for the whole medley up to this point, she's using a mic with a domed head. then during LC the cut to clips of just Mary and just Cindy. when then return to Diana and the group shot, she's either 1) eaten the top of the mic lol 2) it broke off or 3) there were two tapings and she used two different mics. then were then edited together.

I believe that Diana is singing live on the final appearance, and the brief moments where we hear Mary is because she is being picked up by Diana's mike.

That said, the final performance itself seems to be pre-taped. The applause sounds canned, and the often mentioned mike switch couldn't have happened during a live telecast. I'm sure they did it at least twice and then edited the best portions together. The fade at the end of the segment is most likely for dramatic effect, and because they are going to commercial.

BTW: There seem to be some nice moments between Diana and Mary on SOMEDAY. When Mary sings her adlibs, there is at least one moment where Diana smiles and seems to slightly nod in Mary's direction.

[sup_fan]

a fan told me many years ago that the final Ed appearance was very tense. M and C were not pleased about the situation, the inter-group relations were at all time tension. Supposedly the direction was that at the end when the 3 girls are all huddled together and starting the final choruses, they were all supposedly to glance at one another, nod, etc. just like diana did. but that M and C totally ignored her and skipped that direction

not sure if true or not. or if just fan melodrama. but M and C really never once look at diana. a distinct lack of group interaction during the performance

[reese]

a fan told me many years ago that the final Ed appearance was very tense. M and C were not pleased about the situation, the inter-group relations were at all time tension. Supposedly the direction was that at the end when the 3 girls are all huddled together and starting the final choruses, they were all supposedly to glance at one another, nod, etc. just like diana did. but that M and C totally ignored her and skipped that direction

not sure if true or not. or if just fan melodrama. but M and C really never once look at diana. a distinct lack of group interaction during the performance

I've also read that the last Sullivan appearance was tense. J. Randy wrote that they weren't as "energetic" as in previous appearances. Considering it was their last appearance together, it was somewhat lackluster. Diana comes out and talks with Ed about "Soul" and then the girls do a rapid-fire hits medley before ending with SOMEDAY. There was probably a lot going on emotionally, not much time to deal with it, and Cindy was still recovering from her kidnapping ordeal.

[luke]

Mary and Cindy should have sung background on the record. They sound teriffic!

[marv2]

Mary and Cindy should have sung background on the record. They sound teriffic!

I agree. Strangely Johnny Bristol said that was his intention,but there was a scheduling conflict and the Supremes were headed out of town at the time the session was scheduled. I had also heard that it was suppose to have been Diane's first "solo" recording, so who really knows now?

[bradsupremes]

I agree. Strangely Johnny Bristol said that was his intention,but there was a scheduling conflict and the Supremes were headed out of town at the time the session was scheduled. I had also heard that it was suppose to have been Diane's first "solo" recording, so who really knows now?

Johnny Bristol cut the track and background vocals with the intention of giving it to Junior Walker. It was then reassigned to Diana for her solo debut. It was only after it was mixed that Gordy decided it should be credited to DRATS.

[Roberta75]

Johnny Bristol cut the track and background vocals with the intention of giving it to Junior Walker. It was then reassigned to Diana for her solo debut. It was only after it was mixed that Gordy decided it should be credited to DRATS.

Thats real interesting. Thanks for sharing bradsupremes.

[marybrewster]

I believe that Diana is singing live on the final appearance, and the brief moments where we hear Mary is because she is being picked up by Diana's mike.

That said, the final performance itself seems to be pre-taped. The applause sounds canned, and the often mentioned mike switch couldn't have happened during a live telecast. I'm sure they did it at least twice and then edited the best portions together. The fade at the end of the segment is most likely for dramatic effect, and because they are going to commercial.

BTW: There seem to be some nice moments between Diana and Mary on SOMEDAY. When Mary sings her adlibs, there is at least one moment where Diana smiles and seems to slightly nod in Mary's direction.

They should have edited out Cindy tripping over Diana's mic cord during "Symphony".

[milven]

I saw the Supremes' final appearance on Sullivan when it was telecast. The show was live and I doubt that the Supremes'segment was pretaped. They were there live for the telecast.

As for the infamous mike switch, that is definately an edit job taken from two performances. But that is probably something that Sullivan's Sofa Productions did for their DVD releases and those are the videos that we are seeing on You Tube, not the actual live performance.

Even though I saw the show as it was being telecast, I cannot definately say that there was no mike switch. I was too busy watching their final performance together and was not paying attention to microphones.

So take this as opinion, not fact.

[TheMotownManiac]

The east coast was live, the rest went out on delay and could be corrected in editing if needed. Brad is correct about the pre-recordings and it made things go much easier for blocking and sound levels to have it on tape. Mary, Flo and Cindy would record with an orchestral tape and than Fiana would often sing live. The dynamics of a new record were hard to duplicate live, so often the record would be used if it was a brand new song. Established Hits were sung live as were specialty numbers when possible. The same was done at Hollywood Palace Andy Williams Tom Jones etc. Jean did an impressive job lipping her debut on Ed Sullivan - she was a pro from day 1. It’s not easy to “perform” with precision like that, she nailed it.

[johnjeb]

By the late 1960s The Ed Sullivan Show might have been the only "LIVE" prime-time television show left. Hollywood Palace and other variety and entertainment shows may have been taped before a LIVE audience but were not broadcast LIVE. For these shows there is no doubt editing was done before broadcast.

Faced with all this competition, and with improved technological advancements, I can imagine The Ed Sullivan Show utilized pre-recorded music and vocals, background and lead, as needed, in order to present the best show possible.

In the early days of Ed Sullivan's "Toast of the Town" LIVE television was common. Television audiences were familiar with flubs and glitches. Not so by the late 60s when the focus would be on smooth and sophisticated programs.

In the 1950s and early 1960s most of the musical performances could be handled by the Sullivan orchestra quite adequately. 1960s Pop music presented a different challenge and solution.

Many of the rock groups and Pop music performers most likely could not satisfactorily reproduce the sound of their records on a LIVE program and probably preferred some pre-recorded segments, whether instrumentation or vocals. To the performer it was the exposure that mattered, to Sullivan it was the ratings.

As for ratings, I can imagine Sullivan jumped at the opportunity to allow Diana Ross and The Supremes to introduce their brand new single on his program even if it meant lip-synching to a record.