The N Word

[skooldem1]

Why do people say "The N Word"? Not the actual word, but "The N Word"?

[juicefree20]

It's like the Lambada.

It's the forbidden word! I guess that it makes it go down easier if the word is alluded to, rather than actually said.

Either way, by any other name...

[ollie]

It's political correct.

[destruction]

You can't really be that "S" word.....so I guess this is a baby-troll?

[skooldem1]

Is that directed at me? If so, please clarify exactly what you are saying.

[soulster]

Skool,

People do not say the word out of respect. It's a very offensive word. There's no need to use it in today's world unless you are a bigot.

Juice, what is the Lambada? I never heard that word before.

[skooldem1]

What exactly is the difference between:

1. N- Word
2. N*gger

Aren't they one and the same?

Are you sure that if a person decides to say #1 that it is "out of respect"

or

Does it simply make them feel better saying it....without really saying it?

[splanky]

Oh
my
goodness!!!!

I was trying, I was trying really hard to stay the hell off of this thread, I swear I was
but this is getting too dang crazy!
Juice and Ollie, I wish I could be as nice as you guys but people who know me in
real life know I can sometimes be a blunt motherf**ker...

Okay, skool...

The term "The N-word" is used when refering to a word known to be offensive to many
while "N*gger" is used when one is trying to offend. I find it very hard to believe that as long as the term N-word has been around people such as yourself would not get that...

[skooldem1]

Please don't get it twisted. I am not naive and my question is not as simple as some would like to make it.

When stories like the one with Mel Gibson or Dr. Laura are on the news, why doesn't the reporter just say....so and so called someone a "racial slur", or a racial slur was written on someones car, etc.

I will ask again. What is the point of saying "the N word"?

[skooldem1]

Perhaps someone can explain to me why you think that a black person should not be offended because you dropped off "igger"? Are we suppose to feel better because there is now a new "term" to refer to black people? I am being serious here. Explain to me why I should not be offended?

[destruction]

Skooldem1,

Yes it was directed at you..... but u don't have to respond..... You've already answered.

[KevLo]

Hi this is Kev-Lo

I don't like it. I wish people would stop using it that word

[splanky]

It's too late, kevlo. It's here to stay. Aside from the fact that at least 3 or 4 generations
of black, brown, red, yellow and beige kids, fans of hip hop music and culture think it's a
common pronoun, a lot of older black people believe the myth that they've reclaimed the term as a term of endearment. Yet when two black people argue and/or fight they
use the term with the same hate and same meaning as lynch mobs did in the south...

[jillfoster]

Dr.Laura? Did she do a no-no that i don't know about?

[jillfoster]

Ok, I found it... opinions??

[jillfoster]

Now, from the above clip, we see that she thinks it's fine to use the word in the context of reference... but not to actually CALL someone that. Some people feel it should never be uttered at all, I don't agree with that, I feel that gives it too much power. interesting discussion, love to hear others opinions.

[soulster]

What exactly is the difference between:

1. N- Word
2. N*gger

Aren't they one and the same?

Are you trolling? I cannot believe you are serious about this!

Are you sure that if a person decides to say #1 that it is "out of respect"

or

Does it simply make them feel better saying it....without really saying it?

Are you trolling? I cannot believe you are asking this stuff!

[soulster]

Please don't get it twisted. I am not naive and my question is not as simple as some would like to make it.

When stories like the one with Mel Gibson or Dr. Laura are on the news, why doesn't the reporter just say....so and so called someone a "racial slur", or a racial slur was written on someones car, etc.

I will ask again. What is the point of saying "the N word"?

So dumbass people will know what the hell was said without actually having to say the word!

[soulster]

Perhaps someone can explain to me why you think that a black person should not be offended because you dropped off "igger"? Are we suppose to feel better because there is now a new "term" to refer to black people? I am being serious here. Explain to me why I should not be offended?

I can't believe this shit! And White people wonder why Black people get angry at them!

The way I see it, it's not that she used the "N" word, it's that she doesn't understand why it's offensive. On top of that, she revealed her bigotry with her little comment about "marrying outside your race".

[soulster]

Now that i've had a few minutes to calm down:

That word, the "N" word [[you know what it is) was created for one group of people, and only one: Black folks! African Americans! Coloreds! Negros! Mullattos! All that bullshit about it meaning a "bad or ignorant" person is just that, bullshit! It comes from people trying to justify the use of the word, just as much as those Black people why try to "own" the word by using it often. It means the same thing even though Whites and other non-Blacks try to justify it by whining that comedians and rappers use it. No, it doesn't excuse them, either. When Richard Pryor went to Nairobi back in the late 70s, he tells of he he was in the airport and realized that there were no n***ers there, only beautiful Black people! That's when he stopped using the "N" word. Then you get conservative morons like Dr. Laura who think we're too sensitive, or hypersensitive, or whatever she convinces herself is true. I haven't seen the news yet, but you can bet Rush Limbaugh will stick up for her and claim that she is the latest victim of the liberal media, or some kind of shit like that. Or, he'll say we're trying to guilt the White man for slavery or opposing Barrack Obama.

No, I guess i'm still pissed!

[jonc]

Her "marrying outside your race" comment spoke volumes about how racist this woman actually is.

Laura Schlessinger is a proven Homophobe and a hypocrite and now she's been outed as a racist. Sadly I am not in the least surprised. This phony doctor does not even have a degree in psychology.

The only reason she apologized was to save her ratings. Watch her appear on the Sean KKKlannity show or O'Reilly and explain her behavior. FAUX will give her a pass.

[soulster]

This really has nothing to do with the use of the N-word.

Dr, Laura, and most other whites, think they are correct on the subject of race. they don't even consider the perspective of any other group of people. And, when they do, they decide that they are wrong. That is what happened in this case. Notice early on in the call, Dr. Laura kept cutting off her caller to assert her world view without even considering the caller's view? She didn't even try to understand. She cut her off and argued. She has that air of superiority that she is right because she is white. Dr. laura has demonstrated that she knows nothing about Black people. And, as typical with most whites who try to defend their misguided views, she invoked the "My best friend is Black" defense.

I assume she will continue her show, but if she does, she needs to do exactly what she says, and discuss race on it. And, I don't mean frequently interrupt and talk everybody down like Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly do, I mean she should really LISTEN and LEARN!

[jonc]

Her "my friend and bodyguard is black" line was bullshit and very offensive.

[soulster]

Oh, don't you know that it's still very hip to have a Black friend these days?

[ms_m]

Soulster in theory I don't disagree with what you're saying but it's time for both sides to take it down a notch and LISTEN.

I don't believe I'm about to say this but Skool Dem asked a great question but I haven't seen many people LISTENING to what he was trying to say, THINK about what he was saying, or try to LEARN OR UNDERSTAND.

Ask yourself this question, have you ever heard someone say, they used the "C" word when talking about Chinese, or The "S" word when talking about Latinos or the "H" word when talking about Caucasians.... so the question is valid but go back and look at the responses he received. Same type of thing happens from both sides of the fence in racial discussions so yes, although I agree that many Whites don't listen, I have to say many Blacks are hard of hearing as well.

This isn't a "they" problem but an "us" problem, cause we're all in this world together.

[skooldem1]

Thanks Ms. M. Thanks to everyone who engaged. I think its an important discussion. I do think highly of many of you here, although we sometimes butt heads. I decided to start this discussion in this club because it is a diverse group of people and I truly was interested in hearing all the replies.

[soulster]

Mr. M,

I do listen, and I do understand their side. It's just that I am getting sick and tired of that other side. Maybe you're past the anger stage, many of us aren't. I'm really not jumping on Skool, but I still cannot believe he asked if it was the samw word. Everyone knows that people say "the "N"-word to avoid saying that offensive word that starts with "N". If it's a political correctness thing, i'd say that it's a respect thing. The word shouldn't be used. I don't condone it when whites say it, I don't condone it for blacks, either. It's time to let the word fade from the language.

As I said before, this Dr. Laura issue really has nothing to do with that word, and I do not believe she was using it out of maliciousness. The parts that made me steam was just about everything else she said. It was preposterous for a white woman, whom I presume has spent little time with Black people in her life in any deep, meaningful way, would scold a black woman on being too sensitive about disparaging racial remarks from whites, then tell that she shouldn't have married outside of her race if she can't take a joke? Man, i'd love to be a fly on the wall in that woman's house right now!

I want to apologize to skool dem for my blowup. I will be happy to engage in some discourse about race. What kind of beer do you drink? Seriously, though, I find a good way to proceed with this type of topic is to offer personal experiences.

[soulster]

In fact, skool dem, why not start a new thread with your question. Let's start fresh.

[skooldem1]

The thing about Dr. Laura, and I must say I agree with Ms. M, I was more mad at her audacity to scold this African American woman on what she should be offended by. The nerve. Back to my original question. Perhaps I should have been more specific. I was mainly talking about news commentors. If there is some news story where that name is part of what ever the crime or situation is- why can't they just say that a racial slur was used? They are not doing me a favor saying "The N Word", I mean what is the point really? Its like a new buzz word.

[tallone]

You know, I'm like so many of you who wanted to stay out of this conversation, but my sense of "lets set the record straight" won't let me. So here goes:
First off, I am in total agreement with Ms. M and her assesment. I could not have said it better.
Secondly, I understand why Soulster is still angry. Hell, so am I.
Thirdly, Skooldem has raised a most interesting thread, that for whatever the ungodly reason, most folk tend to ignore.
My point is this, until we get to the point where we are sick and tired, of being sick and tired of people calling us niggers, and we try to justify it by calling ourselves niggers, not the N*word, I said niggers, then this problem will continue until the end of time. Also, it is unfortunate that there will always be a Dr. Laura around to say that we are too "sensative" when it comes to being called everything but a human being. The question is, how long will we continue to let this outrage continue?

[jillfoster]

You know what I would have said... when Dr. Laura said "So I guess you don't watch HBO or listen to any black comedians.." the caller should have said "No, I don't.... because i'm offended by such language". i'd love to see what Schlessinger would have said to THAT. I agree that everything else she said was WORSE than uttering the actual word, because it wasn't being directed at anyone. Al sharpton on CNN said, however, that she seemed to revel in saying it over and over during the call... and that's something to be taken into consideration. I think her apology is not genuine, I think she said what she meant. This is a very interesting discussion. I understand the philosophy that using a slur as a term of endearment is a way for some to take the negative connotation away, to drain the word of it's power, but if you EVER use it on your OWN in a negative way, then you're completely in the wrong, IMO.

[juicefree20]

It you bake a cake with a dent in it, the cake still comes out dented.

No matter how some of my fellow brothers & sisters attempt to fall back on that lame "it takes the sting off of the word when we use it" nonsense, it's still tantamount to us slapping us in the face & in front of the very white folks who they claim to dislike so much, at that.

It's really warped when you think about it. These folks have actually fooled themselves into believing that a term of derision could in someway be turned into some sort of wonderful cry of self-affirmation. The truth is that everytime we use that word in reference to one another, it's just another opportunity for others to laugh dead in our faces due to the sheer ignorance of it.

I remember a time when there were 2 things that you dared not call a black person. 1, was the dreaded n-word & 2. The dreaded B-word, which would find you getting your butt kicked not just by the object of the slur, but a few family members, as well.

Folks who continue to excuse the blatant ignorance of those whom DESPITE the history of that word & our global experience as a people, really needs to find Leonard Nimoy & go in search of their dignity at warp factor 5.

[ms_m]

Soulster I do not have to wear my anger on my sleeve to feel anger anymore than I have to smile and grin to feel joy.

I don't have the energy to discuss this anymore, sorry. We all have to get through life in our own way.

You're welcome Skool Dem.

[splanky]

First someone implies that it would be better if instead of saying "the N word" people
just say N*gger outright. Then, after so much discussion the same person says he was
referring to news commentators specifically and would rather they say "a racial slur was
used"...

This has to be the most bizarre thread I've seen on the forum new or old in a very very
long time...

I don't think we need to star trek, search the outer limits or step into the twilight zone,

we are already there...

[soulster]

Soulster I do not have to wear my anger on my sleeve to feel anger anymore than I have to smile and grin to feel joy.

I don't have the energy to discuss this anymore, sorry. We all have to get through life in our own way.

You're welcome Skool Dem.

My anger is genuine, and it's probably a reaction of what I have to deal witgh every day. I am also tired of smiling through it. It's not always better to take the "high road", and it's never therapeutic.

This reminds me of many years aho when a white friend of mine dated a black woman. He asked me an innocent question if all black people liked fried chicken. now, I was in kindergarten with him and we all grew up around the same people, bith black and white, but his girlfriend gos as upset about it as I am now with this latest incident. I was much calmer them and politely explained to him what it was. Maybe it's because I knew the guy personally, and I do not know skooldem.

[skooldem1]

Soulster- are you upset because you think I'm a white guy asking these questions?

[jillfoster]

You all brought up Star Trek... this exchange at 1:40 is the way things should be, IMO....wonder if it will ever happen?

[ollie]

The issue of race is so bizarre Splanky.
Ms. Foster that was a good example of evolution, excellent use of language.
Only if another guy from back'n the days would have shown up on the mamaship, the story could go a different way.

[ms_m]

Sousletr, you really drain my energy.YOU said to me

Maybe you're past the anger stage, many of us aren't.

I answered by saying

Soulster I do not have to wear my anger on my sleeve to feel anger anymore than I have to smile and grin to feel joy.

You came back with defending your anger which at NO TIME did I question.......YOU DON'T LISTEN and I choose to walk away from a discussion where people do not listen. Have a good day Soulster.

[ms_m]

After watching 5 installments of this Star Trek episode [[what happened to the rest Jill Foster....LOL) I'm feeling like Spock so Splanky, let me ask you a question.

When you have a thought and you project that thought to others, do you sometime expand on that thought when you feel people may not understand what you are saying? I ask because that's how I see the "logical" evolution of Skool Dem's original thought/question. Ironically it was at the point he brought up the newscaster that I started to understand his point of view. With that understanding Splanky, I gave the original question more thought and concluded [[in my mind) the question [[to me) was valid. I'm not suggesting your thought process follow mine but I am trying to show you how I came to my conclusion.

I reacted [[anonymously ) the same way many of you did but I did not respond right away, I continued to read what he had to say, I continued to LISTEN to gain more info which I hoped would help me understand where he was coming from. I'm not doubting that you see it as bizarre but in the words of Spock, your response does not seem logical to me. That's not a put down Splanky, that's me simply saying I really don't understand how you came to your conclusion. It's not me saying you are right or wrong, it's me saying I don't understand how you got from point A to point B.

[soulster]

Soulster- are you upset because you think I'm a white guy asking these questions?

Actually, no. I'm not upset with you at all. I never really was. It was the question, coupled with this latest gaffe from yet another far-right conservative that has a high stature in our culture.

[ms_m]

The English language is an interesting one in that a word or phrase can have different meanings but check this out [[and I'm talking to anyone who is interested and no one in particular)....

...many people may read the above statement and say, she wants me to think like her yet no where did I say that, no where is there a word or phrase that can be interpreted as my saying that yet for those people who think I'm trying to tell them how to think, where did their thought come from? Did it come from what I wrote, or did it come from something based in their own minds? If you [[a collective you) respond based on what you thought as oppose to what is said, where or how do you find that line where real communication and understanding begin? In my world, listening to your thoughts without listening to my words, is not listening to me. I see that a lot here on SDF and in the world in general. I think that's why so many conflicts break out.

Just a thought.

[splanky]

Ms M, skool him or herself took most of the folks on this thread from point A to point W
for weird by not saying concisely what he or she meant in the first post. There is a difference for me between expanding on a thought or subject and what went on here.
You can say whatever you want in skool's defense but I'm really not interested in any more of his or her "ponderings"...

Excuse me...

[ms_m]

Splanky, people are not always concise in their thoughts, that's the way it is sometimes. I understand your point of view and I apologize for not having the concise words to articulate mine [[point of view)

Understanding, accepting and agreeing don't have to go hand in hand but of the three, I think understanding is the most important....but that's just me. Have a great day Splanky.

[marv2]

Soulster, no, she revealed her true racism in the comments she made in closing about how she would have thought that by electing a black man as President that it would have ended black people demonizing white people for hating them just because they are black. In other words what she was saying was "haven't WE done enough for you people already...... This the same line of thinking after The Emancipation Proclamation, The Brown vs the Board of Education [[Topeka,KS) and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

[skooldem1]

Excuse me? Ponderings? Whether or not I specified news people in my first post or not they are still PEOPLE. I asked why do people say that? Now I'm curious to know why a question has upset you so much. I simply asked a question, haven't been arguing with anyone or baiting anyone. So why are you really upset?

[skooldem1]

For the record it was not after "so much discussion" it was like 5 post later. I must say that I really don't understand why a question, a healthy debate got you so upset. I'm really curious to know why. Help me understand where this is coming from. We all have our own experiences, and I'm not upset with you being upset.

[soulster]

Soulster, no, she revealed her true racism in the comments she made in closing about how she would have thought that by electing a black man as President that it would have ended black people demonizing white people for hating them just because they are black. In other words what she was saying was "haven't WE done enough for you people already...... This the same line of thinking after The Emancipation Proclamation, The Brown vs the Board of Education [[Topeka,KS) and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

No, we are in 100% agreement! I thought I made that clear in my rants.

[soulster]

For the record it was not after "so much discussion" it was like 5 post later. I must say that I really don't understand why a question, a healthy debate got you so upset. I'm really curious to know why. Help me understand where this is coming from. We all have our own experiences, and I'm not upset with you being upset.

I've been told by certain people months ago that I should just move, but I can't do that in this economic climate, and with my money issues right now. So, for the time being, I have to live and work in tea-bagger country, and I mean of the racist kind. What sets me off about your question is that it should have seemed obvious to you or anyone why that word shouldn't be used. It all tied in with the current political climate out there, and where I live, there's no way of avoiding uit or ignoring it. these people are in your face, and it takes all my strength not to assault them! It's that bad! These people do not listen, and they do not give anyone a chance. yeah, that's the way of the world, but it's also why I sometimes come out swinging.

If you had worded your initail post differently, and not had a track record for inflamatory [[trolling) type posts, perhaps I would not have had that kind of reaction.

I would be more than happy to have the discussion if you would be a little more open with who you are.

[skooldem1]

I stand by my initial post. It was just the initial question. Meant to be part of an ongoing evolving conversation. I was at work at the time and couldn't throw it all out there in one post. When I thought about what I was about to discuss I wanted to initially keep it simple. What was that again?

"Why do people say "The N Word"? Not the actual word, but "The N Word"?

Short and in my mind to the point. That is exactly what I meant to ask. I wasn't asking that question on a simple surface level. Perhaps that is what didn't come through, but it is certainly not something I feel sorry for.