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Thread: The N Word

  1. #51
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    Soulster.... you were the one in Arizona, right? My best friend just moved back from there and basically said that mostly the people there are a bunch of assholes. There are areas of conservative people who arne't such jerks, even though I might not agree with their politics. I see that alot of your opinions might be colored by this hostile climate you are living in, and I understand that. If you do decide or are able to move, might I suggest anywhere in the midwest [[NOT TEXAS) you'll find a much friendlier bunch around there...... or if that's not possible, maybe you can try to arrange your career and life so you don't have to answer to anyone. Just a few suggestions to reduce your stress level. Rural areas are nice, too..... if you want, you can keep to yourself and not even have to associate with your neighbors if you don't want to. Incidentally, my friend works in the horticultrue business [[Like I do) but in Arizona, all these teabaggers are too cheap to hire someone who speaks english to do the work, so while they give lip service to "closing the borders" they are the first to hire a cheap illegal alien to trim their bushes and plant their flowers.
    Last edited by jillfoster; 08-14-2010 at 07:46 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillfoster View Post
    Soulster.... you were the one in Arizona, right? My best friend just moved back from there and basically said that mostly the people there are a bunch of assholes. There are areas of conservative people who arne't such jerks, even though I might not agree with their politics. I see that alot of your opinions might be colored by this hostile climate you are living in, and I understand that. If you do decide or are able to move, might I suggest anywhere in the midwest [[NOT TEXAS) you'll find a much friendlier bunch around there...... or if that's not possible, maybe you can try to arrange your career and life so you don't have to answer to anyone. Just a few suggestions to reduce your stress level. Rural areas are nice, too..... if you want, you can keep to yourself and not even have to associate with your neighbors if you don't want to. Incidentally, my friend works in the horticultrue business [[Like I do) but in Arizona, all these teabaggers are too cheap to hire someone who speaks english to do the work, so while they give lip service to "closing the borders" they are the first to hire a cheap illegal alien to trim their bushes and plant their flowers.
    Hi Jill,

    Yup! I'm here in AZ, and in a rural area. Rural areas are NOT better! There are an awful lot of gun-touting, flag-waving assholes out here. Here's the kicker: most of them moved here from the midwest! The attitude I get comes more from the over 50 crowd, and there's a LOT of 'em here! It's also no surprise that most of the anti-Mexican crowd are from the midwest. They are scared of anyone who isn't white, and don't know or understand the diverse culture we have always had down here.

    I come from the midwest and once lived in Texas. I will not live in Texas, nor will I live in Oklahoma. I'm from Kansas, and I know how bad that is. California is more my speed, but it's so frikkin' expensive! I need to finish my school so I won't have to work with the general public anymore. That alone would reduce my annoyance factor. We have those nuts who try to register with the state to become "sovereign citizens".

    What's even crazier is when I meet some nice chick, and then she starts running down that tea-bagger crap. I had a nice conversation with one girl last week, until she started in on on how Obama took over GM, and wouldn't buy an "Obamacar".

    But, back to the topic...
    Last edited by soulster; 08-14-2010 at 08:30 PM.

  3. #53
    pshark Guest
    Now what gets me is when kids think that if you substitute ger with ga that the meaning of the word changes. To me that's just ignorant thinking, or should I say ignant?
    ************************************************** **************
    Quote Originally Posted by jillfoster View Post
    You all brought up Star Trek... this exchange at 1:40 is the way things should be, IMO....wonder if it will ever happen?

    OK, here's a movie that shows William Shatner in a different light. SHAME! which was also titled THE INTRUDER & I HATE YOUR GUTS is a film directed by Roger Corman about an out-of-towner segregationist [[Shatner) who stirs up trouble in this southern town. And yes they do say that forbidden word and not "N Word". Highly recommend you folks watch this
    http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/articl...hame-1962.html
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Skool,

    People do not say the word out of respect. It's a very offensive word. There's no need to use it in today's world unless you are a bigot.

    Juice, what is the Lambada? I never heard that word before.
    Lambada, the forbidden dance. There was even a movie of that dance craze. I'm sure that slipped your mind

  4. #54
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    I've certainly not had a problem here soulster... but then again, i'm one that doesn't associate with neighbors and the community in general. People can annoy the hell out of me in real life, so I keep to myself, and associate with people of MY choosing. That's why I have such a short fuse on a message board, I suppose!!! I'm not used to people chapping my hide! Perhaps a liberal college town would be more your speed? i'm of the opinion that people in AZ who moved there form the midwest did so because they have this "Outlaw John Wayne" "Wild West" mentality, and the midwest isn't so much like that. Texas is VERY like that. But like I said, I may just not be seeing it, because I isolate myself from the masses on purpose. It's like Roseanne said in that one episode of her show... "I consider myself a pretty good judge of people, and that's why I don't like none of em!" and I suppose since I still live where I was born and grew up, there's that advantage of being "Grandfathered in" so to speak. But hell, I'll kiss another man in public and think nothing of it... unless one is around drunk straight men or something, i'm not FOOL HARDY.
    Last edited by jillfoster; 08-14-2010 at 09:03 PM.

  5. #55
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    If it is equality you look for, then you better not call the Dr. woman or anyone else for advice on the oldest problem of humanity. If you don't want to be engaged in conversations with people who'll use weasel words, don't go to TV Land. So people say what they shouldn't be saying. Let's check it from a different perspective. Why does it hurt you or causes anger in the first place ? True equality is a feeling inside that balances out the negative disharmony coming from your surrounding world. That is a equality, it brings you on the same level as every living thing. There is No answer to the question why people say dis or dat. If you feel equal then you have to walk and talk that way. So do you feel equal? Or is it the other way around, do you not feel equal? And i don't mean treated equal by other's, i mean do you feel equal inside of you?

  6. #56
    In relation to Richard Pryors revelation...I had two friends who fell out, one was an
    Asian immigrant one was from West Africa...me being black American..their argument
    got heated and the Asian called my friend an African N****r..

    What was interesting was that..the African just laughed in his face...so later the Asian
    comes to me and apologizes for using the N word...Because when he came over he stayed with a white host family in an all white area and high school...

    The white kids, he said taught him if you say that to a black person they wil get mad...

    I said, "It has no meaning in the West African mindset, his core identity is not "black"
    he knows he is black but he thinks of himself by his tribal ethnic group first"

    So..I think Americans can learn to be thick-skinned like the Africans when it comes to names.."It's not what you call me, but what I answer to"

    The N-Word nowdays is in many cases all about manipulation and shock value...

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevertoolate View Post

    What was interesting was that..the African just laughed in his face...so later the Asian
    comes to me and apologizes for using the N word...Because when he came over he stayed with a white host family in an all white area and high school...
    Back in the 70s, we used to say that the first word the Asians learned when they got off the boat was "ni**er.

    So..I think Americans can learn to be thick-skinned like the Africans when it comes to names.."It's not what you call me, but what I answer to"
    But, you, yourself, just told us that that word has no meaning to Africans. So, there's no need for them to grow a thick skin about it. But, if we allow Whites, and others to call us that "n" word, it's like letting them get away with it. It will not diminish it's value. They want you to think that, though, because it will give them permission to go ahead and use it at will.

    The N-Word nowdays is in many cases all about manipulation and shock value...
    Of course it is! That's all it ever was. And, in some cases, it's worked.

  8. #58
    The American cultural reaction is to fight back...In Ghana there were some Western professors talking about how
    backward the country is and Black Americans...during the 60s riots..Maya Angelou overheard them and went to
    tell them off making a scene...An African waiter was nearby and said "Why you let them people upset you?"

    "Well they insulted our people and I could not just stand there"..."Oh its nothing"..."Have our people been insulted before?"
    "yes" ..."and they still live?" "yes"..."They are like mice on an elephants back" ..Ghana was here when they came and it
    will be here when they leave".."they will pass"

    Her thought later on was "Even the most uneducated people here are so secure they can ignore white rudeness and insults"
    and that that was the first time she saw "patience used as an agression as opposed to patience used as a defense"

  9. #59
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    There is a difference in the two countries, Ghana and the U.S., and it's in the numbers and the power structure.

  10. #60
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    Nevertoolate:

    I don't know how it is where you live, but here in N.Y., the darkest of Africans think of American blacks as lowly niggers.

    To be more precise, many ethnics who've been here for even 5 minutes from a wheel-well looks down their noses at American blacks. Here's an old trick that some employers used in order to evade problems as regards racism & things as such.

    To get around charges that they didn't promote minorities, they would promote an ethnic of color & let me tell you, there's nothing quite like the power trip that some minority ethnics go on when placed in charge of blacks. Talk about black-on-black crime! The trick is that you can't really scream racial discrimination, as the abuser is also "black". HOWEVER, although the color of their skin screams "BLACK", in their minds, they aren't "black", but WE sure are "niggers" to them.

    I often found it hilarious that individuals 2 weeks removed from an outhouse or a hut, could come here to our NATIVE land, then proceed to look down their noses at us, can barely speak the language but are fully fluent as regards calling folks "niggers"

    In OUR homeland.

    Ain't THAT a bitch!
    Last edited by juicefree20; 08-16-2010 at 08:13 PM. Reason: spelling ertot

  11. #61
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    Maybe because we now live in a word of soundbite -News and information is told to us in instant bites - with no room for beyond a surface level.
    The younger generation in the main do not even use the proper language and vocabulary - many can only write in "Txt" speak.
    By using "N" it nullifys the subject -In keeping with this disturbing trend in human communication.

  12. #62
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    According to Wikipedia, the term, "the N word", only dates back as far as the trial of O.J. Simpson in 1995, when newspapers decided they needed a euphemism in their reports because repeated use of the word in full was deemed to be too offensive. Does anyone here know if they heard that term used before that date?

    Presumably it is the high profile of that case that led the difference in treatment from other derogatory terms. Therefore people would freely say, "He called me a Dago/ Wog/ Kike" rather than "He called me the D word/ the W word/ the K word".

    The use of the term, the N word, has spread to the UK; which is a bit strange as slavery was abolished in the British Empire as long ago as 1833, and the word in full has a lesser cultural impact here than it does in the USA.

  13. #63
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    Juice, I know what you mean. I had a cab driver earlier this year get that attitude with me and I had to get in his ass about it. He later apologize and tried to give me this "you're not like the rest of them..... [[African Americans) speech in reference to working hard etc and again I had to straighten him out about a lot of things all in a 15 - 20 minute cab ride!
    Last edited by marv2; 08-17-2010 at 09:08 PM.

  14. #64
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    Skooldem:

    Sorry for the delay in response. I got back home this morning from a week in N.C., with zero phone reception & extremely,EXTREMELY limited internet service.

    "The Fordbidden dance" was the catch phrase that was used to push the movie "Lambada". The quote that I used came from the Fresh Prince episode "Kiss My Butler", where Geoffrey was revealing himself to be quite the dance floor stepper. While Geoffrey was dancing with Naomi Campbell, they did a bit of The Lambada & Will tells Jeff that they're doing The Lambada, then Will says "That's the forbidden dance".
    Last edited by juicefree20; 08-17-2010 at 05:24 PM.

  15. #65
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    The "N-word" was never about race. It was about social class and standing.

    Somebody pointed out to me that the "K-word" has almost been forgotten and I actually had to think for a few moments to remember what was meant by that. May we hasten the day that the same thing happens to the "N-word." It's a word that I think really deserves to be forgotten.

  16. #66
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    Marv:

    Indeed, that I know to be true.

    I also find that other ethnics tend to overcharge us by at least 3 or 4 dollars. Truthfully, I believe that they do that so that we'll leave the cab & they can either cherry-pick whom they want to drive, or to hopefully find a sucker who doesn't know what the actual fare should be.

    Either way, they do this far too often to be mere coincidence.

    Ironically, the one ethnic group whom have been struggling here with us for decades [[as well as our primary minority competitors), the Hispanics, tend to have lower prices than everyone. I have absolutely no problem with them, I've found their cab fares to be exceedingly fair, they don't tend to bullshit you & I appreciate their general fairness & lack of price-gouging.

    Though I was originally not going to name the most eggregious of folks, I'm going to do so because I know that they're full of it & so do they. I've found that the most abusive of all cab drivers are either Arab, Indian & the ABSOLUTE worst of all, sorry to say, are the Africans. Many of them are rude, arrogant & when someone comes out the box charging $4 more than the going rate, I believe that to be extremely insulting to ones intelligence.

    I wish that a day would come where all of this crap would cease. Then again, this situation goes back to biblical days & if it was happening then, I see nothing today which will change it. The sickening thing for me is that I think back to my childhood & teen years circa the mid-60s - 70s & see how little has truly changed. I grew up during a time when the authorities sprayed peaceful protesters with water hoses, set dogs loose on them, several riots occurred during that period, yet, I never truly experienced the level of prejudice that many did, as well as that which some are intent on revisiting today.

    We were kids & we played like kids. There were always some, both black & white who weren't fond of one another & they certainly voiced that in no uncertain terms. However, usually if left to our own devices, we kids got along.

    4 decades later, we've supposedly evolved & have made strides away from that negativity. But when you listen to the rhetoric found on talk radio, on blogs & even from the mouths of politicians, it makes you wonder beneath it all, have we REALLY moved away from the nonsense, or is it just something inherent, which only needs the right opportunity & circumstance to reemerge from its dormant state?

    If I don't know anything else, I know that I'm sick of this crap & sick of having to discuss it. I guess that it's not really the discussion that makes me sick, but rather the NEED to have to discuss this crap nearly 50 years later.
    Last edited by juicefree20; 08-17-2010 at 09:24 PM. Reason: misspelling

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_olhsson View Post
    The "N-word" was never about race. It was about social class and standing.
    I respectfully disagree with you. That word was created for one group of people and one only: African slaves in America.

  18. #68
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    Juice, I actually had one driver give me money back. Yes incredible I know. In regards to the racial rhetoric heard on conservative talk radio and television they just feel it's safe now to be an out and out racist. Racists can come in any color. I'm met them. I do not like them. I am mostly disappointed, frustrated and angry and a bit sad that as you pointed out here we are nearly 50 years later and this shit is still going on.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    I respectfully disagree with you. That word was created for one group of people and one only: African slaves in America.
    Bob, Soulster is right, unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juicefree20 View Post
    ... I guess that it's not really the discussion that makes me sick, but rather the NEED to have to discuss this crap nearly 50 years later.
    Exactly, a bitter disappointment.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    That word was created for one group of people and one only: African slaves in America.
    Certainly but there were comparable derogatory terms for every other American underclass. It's just the "N-word" lasted longer because rule by the upper class in the south was threatened by an ever more informed African American majority. This is what jim crow seems to have been all about, driving educated blacks who might vote away from the south and scaring lower class whites with negrophobia.

    Dividing people to conquer them is a time honored tradition. Racism is just a tactic and too often talking about it is a distraction from the real evil which is greed, money and power.

  22. #72
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    Bob:

    You point is very accurate & well-taken & about the best explanation I've heard. It appears to me that more recent immigres have been much more accepted here. That's likely because of the thought process which found some people thinking that these newer immigrants would be so grateful to be here, that they'd be more accepting of receiving relative crumbs.

    Under those circumstances, I find it rather ironic that the true enemy has proven NOT to be the centuries-old adversary whom many would STILL love to see take that long boat ride back to Africa, but rather relatively "new", so-called "ignorant, happy just to be here" folks, whom were welcomed with relatively open arms.

    Even while preparing for the "coming" race war that many were preparing for, the point seemed to be missed that while they were planning to renew hostilities with AMERICAN CITIZENS, they were opening the door & taking for granted the ignorance & pliability of folks whom were so happy to be on these shores, that they'd be much easier to control.

    Recent history has shown us that that assumption was proven wrong & to add insult to injury, many of those whom would do harm to us were taught how to inflict injury & unleash mayhem, right here in some of our finest American institutions of higher learning.

    Ain't that a kick in the head?

  23. #73
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    I was taught racism as a child along right with hating poor whites, renters, Catholics and farm workers in general. My mother, a teacher, and father, a carpenter, simply didn't know any better. It was a mythology they'd been taught. Thank God I wandered into Motown as a teen-ager and learned the truth first hand. My identity as a human being got expanded by immersion to include virtually everybody although right wingers are still a challenge.

    I think our biggest challenge today is to help expand other people's sense of identity. This doesn't mean changing it but rather embracing and then building upon where we each came from instead of letting others sell us on the idea that our identity ought to be x y or z. If there is any big scam in the world, it's convincing people that they need to purchase or earn some kind of a limited identity. Madison Avenue and Wall Street are experts at this. So are the folks who turn kids into suicide bombers.

    It's all really a life and death battle of consciousness.

  24. #74
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    Bob:

    What it really is is one big mind F.

    I think that you understand what I mean

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by juicefree20 View Post
    Nevertoolate:

    I don't know how it is where you live, but here in N.Y., the darkest of Africans think of American blacks as lowly niggers.

    To be more precise, many ethnics who've been here for even 5 minutes from a wheel-well looks down their noses at American blacks. Here's an old trick that some employers used in order to evade problems as regards racism & things as such.

    To get around charges that they didn't promote minorities, they would promote an ethnic of color & let me tell you, there's nothing quite like the power trip that some minority ethnics go on when placed in charge of blacks. Talk about black-on-black crime! The trick is that you can't really scream racial discrimination, as the abuser is also "black". HOWEVER, although the color of their skin screams "BLACK", in their minds, they aren't "black", but WE sure are "niggers" to them.

    I often found it hilarious that individuals 2 weeks removed from an outhouse or a hut, could come here to our NATIVE land, then proceed to look down their noses at us, can barely speak the language but are fully fluent as regards calling folks "niggers"

    In OUR homeland.

    Ain't THAT a bitch!
    Just wow! Juice, I’m really dismayed by your comments. Your comments literally generalize a whole continent of people, which it interesting enough, since African Americans complain that about the same thing anytime one of us displays bad behavior. Why not give Africans the same respect that they, too, should be generalized in that manner?

    Obviously, you have some bad experiences with Africans [[you didn’t say which country, which sometimes makes a difference) but not all of them view Africans as ‘lowly niggers’ as you call it. It is nothing more than a lack of cultural understanding and I think, the problem is also us because we believe everything that indigenious Africans hate African/Black Americans. That could not be further from the truth. From the other perspective, Africans have also said that African Americans hate them, calling them names, making fun of their accents and skin color, etc. It goes both ways as from what you also posted that they came out of ‘outhouses and huts’ which solidifies my point. From my understanding, there are people in this country that live in rural areas who probably still have outhouses. The country where my family is from, there are people that still have outhouses. Why is that such a horrible thing?

    I have encountered many Africans, from different countries, who have been nothing but polite and courteous. Yes, you will have those that are rude or ‘rough’ but that could easily apply TO ANY ONE OF US. Just because you’re American, doesn’t immune you from behaving badly either.

    Contrary to popular belief, Africans have a lot of exposure to African American culture via cable and the internet. If you want to blame Africans for their perceptions, look no further than the man in the mirror! With American rap artists tossing the ‘n’ word around and embracing the word, where do you think they got their ideas from? They think it’s cool to call the ‘n’ word because rap artists go to Africa and perform shows there. Time and time again, some of us in the African American have tried to stress that some of the images out there via tv, music and in movies, might have a negative impact on how people view us. We failed to realize that we live in a world that become more globalized via more expandng technology. Now, that that has happened, can you really get angry at those [[and it’s not just ‘Africans’ either!) who come away the ideas that they have?

    Lastly, as a person whose father came from South Africa and was inspired by the black power movement during [[most Africans were as well) and a African Caribbean mother, your comments really disheartened me. Of course, you did not know about my background but as someone that you have met personally, did I ever come across in the way you have described in your post? I have never EVER thought myself better than anyone or even entertained the thought of my people as ‘lowly niggers’ [[I still can't understand why African Americans are even trying to justify this foul word). That really hurt my feelings and reading comments like that really causes more division than the unity that you speak of it. It’s funny you mentioned that you’re ‘sick of crap’ like this and wish it will cease someday. On that point, I totally agree with you!
    Last edited by common; 08-18-2010 at 09:50 AM.

  26. #76
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    Common, I believe Juice 's comments definitely come from some bad experiences he had
    which I feels he would do better to deal with sometime soon. I, myself have met some Africans would were rude and some who didn't like Black Americans but I don't fret about them because I've also had a number of African friends over the years, most from
    Mali, Nigeria, and Senegal but a couple from Zimbabwe who gave me an mbira as a present years ago. I have to agree with you that many American Blacks do give reason to be offended and embarassed by our shared ancestry and many of them are entertainers generally. Hip hop artists, particularly. Then again, hip hop is global now
    so I don't expect that to change anytime soon. But it's not just the rappers, I've know
    many people otherwise intelligent who I've heard talk about Africa and Africans
    like they were themselves southern Klansman...

    Juice, do yourself a favor and educate yourself...

  27. #77
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    Big ups to Ken Olbermann from MSNBC. [[ He couldn't have said it better ! )
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_682213.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by splanky View Post
    Common, I believe Juice 's comments definitely come from some bad experiences he had
    which I feels he would do better to deal with sometime soon. I, myself have met some Africans would were rude and some who didn't like Black Americans but I don't fret about them because I've also had a number of African friends over the years, most from
    Mali, Nigeria, and Senegal but a couple from Zimbabwe who gave me an mbira as a present years ago. I have to agree with you that many American Blacks do give reason to be offended and embarassed by our shared ancestry and many of them are entertainers generally. Hip hop artists, particularly. Then again, hip hop is global now
    so I don't expect that to change anytime soon. But it's not just the rappers, I've know
    many people otherwise intelligent who I've heard talk about Africa and Africans
    like they were themselves southern Klansman...

    Juice, do yourself a favor and educate yourself...
    Splanky:

    Thank you for sharing. I’m glad that you have various experiments and it hasn’t dampened your perceptions of It hurts me as a woman who’s mother migrated here from the Caribbean in the 60s and have had her share of being discriminated against, outside as well as within her race. I have heard all the negative comments about African Americans growing up but as my family began to navigate the American system, they now have a better UNDERSTANDING of what African Americans have gone through. I have also educated my mom about a lot of things she didn’t know that African Americans had to deal with. The realization is that we all have a common ground, regardless, if a person migrated yesterday or 50 years ago. I have gotten a lot of my consciousness from my mother and read a lot of the struggles of mainly African Americans. I’ve also grown to understand that this is not merely African American struggle, it’s a global struggle. But that’s another animal for another time…..

    Part of the cultural misunderstanding, speaking from the Caribbean side, is the way the immigrant is treated when they first arrive here. Some of these newly immigrants know of relatives or friends that have migrated here prior and base some of their perceptions on the stories they have heard from them [[this is before the internet & tv. It’s only in the last 30-40 years that mostly all Caribbeans have had access to a tv.) . They hear about the stories about ‘those ‘foreigners’ taking their jobs’[[my mom used to say, how can I take a job that they don’t want?)’, ‘they’re backward’, ‘wear loud colors’ [[well, there is truth to that. Lol), ‘speak too fast’ [[heard this a lot growing up), etc. It’s about being the ‘other’ and since African Americans have been the ‘other’ for so long, they see that there’s another group that has taken their place: African/Caribbean immigrants. It’s like the pecking order. We’ve been discriminated against so much that we end up doing it somebody else [[sometimes ourselves, too). I’m not saying it’s intentional, for a lot of these ideas can also be blamed on the media and what we see and hear.

    Another thing, I would like folks to consider: indigenous Africans may not have experienced the type of ‘racism’ that African Americans have but they have experienced ‘colonialism’. In my opinion, I look at it as another type of racism [[trying to push the English or whatever Eurpean language on the indigenous, land grabbing by ‘outsiders’, exploitation of indigenous resources, skin color [[yes, baby! Colonialism spread that disease over there too!) , class status, etc. They have issues, too, so we don’t know what type of mental baggage that an immigrant is bringing with them.

    We also forget that African Americans discriminated against each other by ‘paper bag tests’ [[skin color), hair, and class status. Matter of fact, Juice’s comment about ‘lowly niggers’ brought to mind some wealth African Americans who call working class/lower class AAs same thing! I’ve learned along time ago, that there will be people greater or lesser than myself. However, I’ve learned that regardless of their ‘greatness or lessness’ that they deserve respect.
    Sorry for the long post, but I really had a lot to say. lol

  29. #79
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    Never apologise for making your point, common, I just wish a lot of other people could understand it.
    The harm done by colonialism is the history of the world. Often places that were one people or one country got chopped in half between different European nations and we're still seeing the effects...

  30. #80
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    Common:

    You & I go back a long ways & I love you like ice cream, but I'm a bit puzzled at your response. I'm sorry if my remarks hurt your feelings because at no time did I say that ALL Africans behaved in that way & I don't know why you would take remarks that I made about some or many & put yourself in that number. Did I somehow cloud my statement, because I thought that it was pretty straight-forward & I'm puzzled at the focus on the remarks that I made in regards to Africans.

    "I don't know how it is where you live, but here in N.Y., the darkest of Africans think of American blacks as lowly niggers"...

    Perhaps I should've prefaced that statement with the same qualifier that I gave other remarks of mine..."many". And I'm willing to stand by that statement, as being my experience, observations & even conversations which I've had with more than a few Africans. Now, had I said ALL Africans, I could understand there being a problem with me saying that. Had I said EVERY African, I could understand there being a problem. Had I even said MOST Africans, then I could certainly understand anyone have a problem with me making such a blanket statement. At all points, I offered the qualifier MANY. I'm sorry if my lack of including it as regards my opening statement led you to think that I was painting any or all Africans with the same broad brush.

    As for the outhouse remark, that was not directed specifically at any specific ethnic group. I thought that was crystal-clear by the very quote of mine that you copied, which was..."To be more precise, MANY ETHNICS who've been here for even 5 minutes from a wheel-well looks down their noses at American blacks. Here's an old trick that some employers used in order to evade problems as regards racism & things as such...".

    I qualified that statement & went on to discuss other non-American ethnics of color & made the following remark..."I often found it hilarious that individuals 2 weeks removed from an outhouse or a hut, could come here to our NATIVE land, then proceed to look down their noses at us, can barely speak the language but are fully fluent as regards calling folks 'niggers'".

    Exactly where did I single out Africans specifically within the framing of that sentence?

    Africans are not the only peoples whom have ever lived in huts & I doubt that most Africans or other ethnics come here directly from a hut. I know of many who have & they'll show you pictures & ironically, most of them are NOT Africans. There are other countries where poverty exists to that degree, as well. I was saying that more for effect. Other than my opening line which was in direct response to the quote of Nevertoolate, when he spoke of the response of an African to Maya Angelou. My response to that is that that individual could likely afford to feel that way, as the American Black is the one whom it appears as though not only do many other people of colors express a low regard for, but it also appears as though they've been conditioned to think the worst of us.

    And Africans certainly don't corner the market on that, as the American Black has been called all sorts of things in various languages, by people of various ethnicities, even by non-Americans Blacks whom were/are just as dark as we are.

    Either way, my focus wasn't specifically on Africans, I clearly stated that MANY ethnics of color look down their noses at American Blacks. And lest anyone try to blame music or videos, for MANY, these attitudes have been firmly set in place decades ago. Or is anyone here really going to try to tell me that they haven't heard the same charges & insults that I've heard hurled at the American Black from other non-American blacks?
    Last edited by juicefree20; 08-18-2010 at 03:28 PM.

  31. #81
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    Splanky:

    I'm not sure if you read exactly what I wrote, but I have no need to be educated about anything. I thought that we were having a conversation based upon the topic & the various ways that it's manifested itself, often in some subtle ways, all of which I find to be insidious.

    As I said, had I made those statements about EVERY & ALL Africans or anyone else, then your words would certainly apply. As it stands, except for that one instance, I clearly said MANY, which is no indicator as to whether the percentage of offenders were high or low. Regardless of the percentage of people who feel about us & would express it, even 10 is too much as far as I'm concerned.

    As far as me having "bad" experiences with Africans, let me clarify that those remarks of which I speak were not directed toward me personally. HOWEVER, if anyone feels so free as to say those kind of things to me about my OWN people [[as I'm also an American Black), then it doesn't require a huge leap for me to conclude that perhaps I might've been included in their list of "others", had they not known me.

    Let me ask you this, if you were gay & someone kept making disparaging remarks about gays, or if you were a woman & someone had the tendency to make disparaging remarks about women, how long would they be able to do such a thing & make those kind of statement before you began to think, "Well wait a minute...I'm [[fill in the blank) too, they know that I'm [[fill in the blank), yet they actually seem to harbor these negative feelings about who or what I am?

    The point being that if they feel free enough to say things like that to me, an American Black about OTHER American Blacks, then truly, what do they REALLY think about me? A person doesn't have to talk bad about me before it annoys me, nor make me wary of their thought-process. And the oft-held-out qualifier "I'm not talking about you, you're not like them" just doesn't cut it for me.

    And as far as American Blacks giving anyone reason to feel as they do, exactly how did it come to be that many people whom have never set foot on this soil, seem to arrive on these shores with that very mindset? Again, we can't blame music or videos, as this mentality has been present for decades, long before the first rap song, music video, hood movie or crack was created.

    With that as the case, exactly how can it be that non-American Blacks whom were not really exposed to American Blacks, end up with so many negative stereotypes & mental depictions of us? Search your soul & think of the various disparaging things that you've ever heard expressed about the American Black by damn near every ethnic group whom arrives here & tell me that I'm overstating the case.

    Should that prove to be the case, then it's not I who needs to be educated about a thing.

    I've seen it & heard it from all sides of the fence & I would also agree that the biggest offenders can be & often are other American Blacks, which is a whole different story.

    The question still remains, how can it be that just about everyone feels as though they can disrespect American Blacks, no matter what their particular station, or where they're from, even those whom have had little interaction with us?

    So now that we've established that not EVERY, ALL or MOST Africans or any other ethnic group are within the majority of those possessing these negative thoughts toward American Blacks & that MOST or EVERY ethnic peoples DO NOT & have not resides in huts, exactly what is it that I need to educate myself about?

    Context is everything.
    Last edited by juicefree20; 08-18-2010 at 03:53 PM.

  32. #82
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    One last thought...

    If these conditions didn't exist, then I couldn't & wouldn't talk about it, because when you look beneath the surface, more than 50 years of talking hasn't changed a thing fundamentally. If the lessons of the past were & had been truly taken to heart, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, these many years later. And the truth is, that certain people, or rather POWERS have fully encouraged & fostered the divisions that exist between ALL peoples of color. And they've have created conditions in which discord could thrive.

    The sad thing about all of this is that people are being played one against the other, in an end game that too many people caught up trying to secure their own place in the pecking order, don't seem to realize, or refuse to recognize is being played on them.

    I believe that it's referred to as "Divide & Conquer" & sadly, it appears as though it's a game that far too many people are willing to play.

    .

  33. #83
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    Juice, I've read every post on this thread straight through even after I stopped responding including yours. It's not often that I've found myself disagreeing with you
    in fact the only two other times that come to mind were over hip hop and funk but
    this time and I'll only say this once:
    You were wrong.
    Peace...

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by juicefree20 View Post
    Common:

    You & I go back a long ways & I love you like ice cream, but I'm a bit puzzled at your response. I'm sorry if my remarks hurt your feelings because at no time did I say that ALL Africans behaved in that way & I don't know why you would take remarks that I made about some or many & put yourself in that number. Did I somehow cloud my statement, because I thought that it was pretty straight-forward & I'm puzzled at the focus on the remarks that I made in regards to Africans.

    "I don't know how it is where you live, but here in N.Y., the darkest of Africans think of American blacks as lowly niggers"...

    Perhaps I should've prefaced that statement with the same qualifier that I gave other remarks of mine..."many". And I'm willing to stand by that statement, as being my experience, observations & even conversations which I've had with more than a few Africans. Now, had I said ALL Africans, I could understand there being a problem with me saying that. Had I said EVERY African, I could understand there being a problem. Had I even said MOST Africans, then I could certainly understand anyone have a problem with me making such a blanket statement. At all points, I offered the qualifier MANY. I'm sorry if my lack of including it as regards my opening statement led you to think that I was painting any or all Africans with the same broad brush.

    As for the outhouse remark, that was not directed specifically at any specific ethnic group. I thought that was crystal-clear by the very quote of mine that you copied, which was..."To be more precise, MANY ETHNICS who've been here for even 5 minutes from a wheel-well looks down their noses at American blacks. Here's an old trick that some employers used in order to evade problems as regards racism & things as such...".

    I qualified that statement & went on to discuss other non-American ethnics of color & made the following remark..."I often found it hilarious that individuals 2 weeks removed from an outhouse or a hut, could come here to our NATIVE land, then proceed to look down their noses at us, can barely speak the language but are fully fluent as regards calling folks 'niggers'".

    Exactly where did I single out Africans specifically within the framing of that sentence?

    Africans are not the only peoples whom have ever lived in huts & I doubt that most Africans or other ethnics come here directly from a hut. I know of many who have & they'll show you pictures & ironically, most of them are NOT Africans. There are other countries where poverty exists to that degree, as well. I was saying that more for effect. Other than my opening line which was in direct response to the quote of Nevertoolate, when he spoke of the response of an African to Maya Angelou. My response to that is that that individual could likely afford to feel that way, as the American Black is the one whom it appears as though not only do many other people of colors express a low regard for, but it also appears as though they've been conditioned to think the worst of us.

    And Africans certainly don't corner the market on that, as the American Black has been called all sorts of things in various languages, by people of various ethnicities, even by non-Americans Blacks whom were/are just as dark as we are.

    Either way, my focus wasn't specifically on Africans, I clearly stated that MANY ethnics of color look down their noses at American Blacks. And lest anyone try to blame music or videos, for MANY, these attitudes have been firmly set in place decades ago. Or is anyone here really going to try to tell me that they haven't heard the same charges & insults that I've heard hurled at the American Black from other non-American blacks?
    Juice:
    Love ya to pieces but I still stand by what I said in my comments. If we substituted ‘African Americans’ for ‘Africans or other ethnic groups’ in your post, then all hell would break out. I quoted your first post which is where I drew my comments from, not the second post. I didn’t respond to the second post, where you broaden your comments by adding ethnic groups. I still didn’t see the difference however my focus is Africans for the simple reason is whether we resent, dislike or hate Africans, we are descendants of that continent. To me, if I slap my mother, it’s like I’m slapping myself [[bad analogy but you get my point). Whether you’re from the Caribbean, Latin America or America, we all are struggling to regain our humanity and independence. I honestly don’t see the difference among us EXCEPT the differences in culture.

    Still, I feel as much as it bothers you about how African Americans are treated by other ethnic groups, you should know that it does bother them as well about the way they are treated and perceived when they come here.

    The ‘many’ you speak of are only the ones you encountered, which I characterized as ‘some’. Those Africans, for example, don’t represent the majority. It’s like whites saying that ‘many ‘blacks commit crime’ or any other negative adjective that is attached to us. Then say, “ Well, we don’t mean ‘all’, we just mean ‘many’ “ . Yeah, there are some African Americans that commit crime but can we say really say ‘many’? There’s a minority that do commit crime, but to me, saying ‘many’ is leaning more towards the majority and that’s not right.

    I, for one, don’t tolerate the fact people put us down for whatever reason and I certainly am quick to address friends, relatives or anyone else who says negative or ask stupid questions like ‘what’s wrong with African Americans and why they can’t get ahead’? But I educate them on the deal and they come away [[I hope!) with a better understanding and respect. My undergraduate professor from Jamaica, told us in class that those who migrated here, have no right to put down or think themselves above African Americans because they have struggled too hard to make America better for others to enjoy. She was absolutely right in her assessment.

    However, let’s not negate the point that those who migrate from Africa or the Caribbean suffer discrimination, sometimes at the hands of African Americans. Some of them DON’T’ have positive experiences with African Americans based not only their own countrymen’s experience but on their own as well. Africans are not the only perpetrators of ignorance and misinformation. All of this has a lot to do with doctrine of racism and colonialism. There is no way around it.

    As you say that negative perceptions of African Americans or other ethnic groups [[I can’t speak on that because my encounters have also have been negative/positive), media plays a big part and yes, today’s mass entertainment plays an even bigger part in how African Americans are perceived in the world. Talking about decades ago, it still goes back to how one is treated in other man’s country. As I stated before, my mom migrated here decades ago, and she didn’t come here with those perceptions you speak of and her aunt, who brought here, never talked about things like that. It all boils down to where they are they getting these perceptions from?

    Poor treatment towards each other, as I’ve stated and as you wrote, is not right. So what can do to make better besides complain how horrible we talk or treat each other? As you said yourself it is divide and conquer but you still pointed out how the ‘many’ Africans [[or other ethnic groups) behave badly towards African Americans. You basically said that people are conditioned to feel that way about African Americans but aren’t African Americans ‘conditioned’ as well to view Africans or other ethnic groups in disdainful light?

    There’s more I’d like to say but I've pretty much derailed the whole thread, which wasn’t the intent.

  35. #85
    I have to say my experience with Africans have been very positive...I lived with
    West African roomates in college for about 2 years..So I was around Africans 24-7 at
    one point..They are coming from a whole different mindset all together about social
    relationships, how to behave, male-female relationships, inter-ethnic relationships...

    Now some of them do have attitudes and most of it at its core is "my ethnic group[[insert
    tribe) is better than everyone else..They have attitudes toward each other based on
    country,tribe,region...[[every non-Nigerian African had a comment or stereotype about
    "dem Nigerians")...

    It seems when I meet one with an attitude...I start talking about his country and the attitude drops and "wow you know about my country!!"...They are a very proud and
    confident people..at least the ones I met..

    I like them and I seem to get along very well with them..eventhough I may not agree with everything they say or do...

    I do know the group takes precedence over the individual among them..if you meet one who is a friend of your friend he AUTOMATICALLY becomes your friend and things like if
    10 people are at a table and 1 is still eating...the 9 will wait for that one to finish..or
    someone will wait for that 1 to finish eating ...he will not leave alone..

    It was a VERY educational experience being among them..

  36. #86
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    Just to add to what Juice said, i think it's important to understand that racism has always been a tactic of class warfare. Class warfare seeks to get people to accept the idea that their identity is limited to some combination of "X" or "Y" and "not X" or "not Y." The problem with the word is the implications and the message of limited identity that it sends.

    It's not "OK" to identify with something that has always been utter fiction that was used to limit people's sense of identity. On a certain level that requires buying into that fiction in order to consider yourself as "one of them" or not "one of them." To this day the concept is being used to manipulate Americans of all races.

    African Americans have a colossally rich international culture to identify with yet most black kids I meet are utterly unaware of it. I'm outraged that as a white I've only learned about a lot of this since moving to Nashville when I was more than 50 years old and I've had far more contact with the black community than most whites. That black kids often don't know much about their own heritage other than in terms of social class limits as defined by the rich elite of the 1920s is criminal racism.

    If we are to make progress, we really don't need black or white children hearing that word or believing it's OK for anybody to use it. Hearing comedians say it for shock value got old after just a few years. Now, decades later, it has become a cliché that isn't shocking and isn't funny. It needs to go away other than as a historical footnote.

    Hopefully at least some of what I've said makes sense.

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