SD Pretend Producer #2 - a revised 1969 album for DRATS

[sup_fan]

ok - many of us on here agree that the final lps issued under DRATS were not their strongest efforts. while individual songs are quite strong, Sunshine and Cream tend to lack any real direction or cohesive concept. and they're heavy on covers

so if you were the producer, what lp would you release with 12 tracks?

[daviddh]

i liked Cream, mostly , but thought it was short.
hated and still do ,Let The Sunshine in.awful mess. i only like Let the Music Play and no Matter What Sign You are.
and why call a Supremes lp after a 5th Dimension hit. that would be like them calling their lp Baby Love. tacky and comical.
so my Cream of the Crop playlist would be...…….

someday we'll be together
cant you see its me
you gave me love
beginning of the end of love
hey jude
loving you is sweeter than

let the music play
when its to the top
stormy
beginning of the end
no matter what sign you are
im so glad i got somebody like you around

some of the vocals are good but I think more mixing is needed. seems rushed and a push to get ross out there.

[reese]

"CREAM OF THE CROP"

Side 1
Someday We'll Be Together
I Can't Give Back the Love I Feel for You
Believe in Me
Wish I Knew
Can't You See It's Me
Loving You is Better than Ever

Side 2
Sweet Thing
You're Gonna Hear From Me
In the Evening of Our Love
Till Johnny Comes
Those Precious Memories
The Beginning of the End

[marybrewster]

This could have been a great concept album; starting with "The Beginning of the End" and ending with "Someday".

[RanRan79]

ok - many of us on here agree that the final lps issued under DRATS were not their strongest efforts. while individual songs are quite strong, Sunshine and Cream tend to lack any real direction or cohesive concept. and they're heavy on covers

so if you were the producer, what lp would you release with 12 tracks?

Gotta think on this one Sup. It's late so I'll compile my list in the morning.

[Motown Eddie]

I'd take the best of both 1969 Supremes LPs, add some of best of the 'vault tracks and call it:

Someday We'll Be Together
Side 1-
"Someday We'll Be Together"
"The Beginning Of The End"
"I'm Living In Shame"
"Let The Music Play"
"A Little Breeze"
"The Composer"
Side 2-
"No Matter What Sign You Are"
"Will This Be The Day"
"Till Johnny Comes"
"Sweet Thing"
"The Young Folks"
"Are You Sure Love Is The Name Of This Game"

[sup_fan]

Someday
You Gave me Love
Stormy
You're Gonna Hear from me
Till Johnny Comes
i'm so glad i got somebody like you around

discover me
loving you is better than ever
When it's to the top
if you should walk away
the beginning of the end
the look of love

and i think you all should take note that i included a smokey song here! lolol

[RanRan79]

Okay, so I do think that ultimately the last two studio albums by the "group" alone were mediocre. However, Let the Sunshine In is my favorite of the two and it's special to me. When I began collecting the Supremes music as a teenager LTSI was the only album from the DRATS period [[aside from Greatest Hits but regardless of when it was released I think most of us consider that album from the Flo years) that I had for a few years. So some of those songs are favorites of mine. But putting my producer cap on, and trying not to look at the above selections so as not to be influenced [[I did see the title of "Someday We'll Be Together" and of course I'll have to use it) here's what I got:

Someday We'll Be Together

I'm Livin In Shame [[original recorded version)
Discover Me
The Young Folks
No Matter What Sign You Are
You Gave Me Love
Can't Take My Eyes Off of You
I'm So Glad I Got Somebody Like You Around
Loving You Is Better Than Ever
Stormy
Beginning of the End
Let the Music Play
Someday We'll Be Together

So I tried to eliminate most of the covers, which was so hard when it came to "Western Union" because I love it so. I also went with a bit of a concept starting with "Discover Me". For the fans, I tried to tell a bit of a love story from the singer waiting to be loved by someone [[Discover Me) to declaring love for someone [[No Matter) to enjoying being in love [[You Gave Me Love, Can't Take Eyes, I'm So Glad, Better Than Ever) to the relationship getting rocky [[Stormy) to the realization that it's over [[Beginning, Music Play, Someday).

But behind the scenes there's a different concept going on. It's the story of the Supremes. From their time knowing they want to be performers but not knowing how to get started [[Discover Me) to their determination to keep going after all of the stumbling blocks they hit after forming the group [[The Young Folks) to their determination to be successful no matter what [[No Matter) to their love of what they were doing [[Gave Me Love) to their success [[Can't Take My Eyes) to their appreciation to one another [[I'm So Glad) to their continued success [[Loving You Is Better Than Ever) to the point where their relationships soured [[Stormy) to the realization that the dream they started together was getting ready to go in separate directions [[Beginning of the End) to the last grasp of keeping it together right before Flo's firing and then also the entire DRATS period which was a trial run for Diana's exit [[Let the Music Play) to the finale of "Someday".

"I'm Livin In Shame" messes with both concepts, so since it was a hit and had to be included I made it the opener in order to get it out of the way. I also chose the original recorded version rather than the hit version because I think the original is just a better overall song. "The Young Folks" works in my Supremes timeline concept but not the love story one, but so what. And while there is hardly a scenario in which I would not have released "Will This Be the Day" [[one of my favorite DRATS songs), for some reason I forgot it while initially compiling my list and by the time I remembered, it would've thrown off what I had already done. So since we're pretending, I'm also pretending that I produced the Love Child lp and on that one I included "Will This Be the Day".

[RanRan79]

some of the vocals are good but I think more mixing is needed. seems rushed and a push to get ross out there.

Yeah, I definitely agree that some additional mixing would've helped a lot.

[RanRan79]

"CREAM OF THE CROP"

Side 1
Someday We'll Be Together
I Can't Give Back the Love I Feel for You
Believe in Me
Wish I Knew
Can't You See It's Me
Loving You is Better than Ever

Side 2
Sweet Thing
You're Gonna Hear From Me
In the Evening of Our Love
Till Johnny Comes
Those Precious Memories
The Beginning of the End

A couple of Diana solos there, or would you have added backing vocals? "You're Gonna Hear From Me" should've been released back in the day. That's one of my favs from the lost and found set.

[RanRan79]

I'd take the best of both 1969 Supremes LPs, add some of best of the 'vault tracks and call it:

Someday We'll Be Together
Side 1-
"Someday We'll Be Together"
"The Beginning Of The End"
"I'm Living In Shame"
"Let The Music Play"
"A Little Breeze"
"The Composer"
Side 2-
"No Matter What Sign You Are"
"Will This Be The Day"
"Till Johnny Comes"
"Sweet Thing"
"The Young Folks"
"Are You Sure Love Is The Name Of This Game"

Love "The Composer" but I left it as a 45. It'll be on the upcoming DRATS Greatest Hits 3.

[RanRan79]

Someday
You Gave me Love
Stormy
You're Gonna Hear from me
Till Johnny Comes
i'm so glad i got somebody like you around

discover me
loving you is better than ever
When it's to the top
if you should walk away
the beginning of the end
the look of love

and i think you all should take note that i included a smokey song here! lolol

Mmm hmmm. We know that only happened because of strict orders from Berry.

[reese]

A couple of Diana solos there, or would you have added backing vocals? "You're Gonna Hear From Me" should've been released back in the day. That's one of my favs from the lost and found set.

I like those songs without the backgrounds, but it would be nice to see what they would have added to some of them. I would leave WISH I KNEW as it is.

[lucky2012]

Ranran, Your thoughts are often very similar to mine. I too think the 1969 studio albums mediocre but I'm fond of some tracks.
I propose relegating the very mediocre 1969 singles to Greatest Hits 3 and release a risky but daring non-hits studio album.

Let The Music Play: [[same album cover as Let The Sunshine In as I like that cover)
Side 1:
The Beginning of the End
Stormy
Hey, Western Union Man
What Becomes of the Brokenhearted

Till Johnny Comes

Let The Music Play

Side 2:
Discover Me [[And You'll Discover Love)
Will This Be the Day
Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You
You Gave Me Love
Loving You is Better Than Ever
I'm So Glad [[I Got Somebody Like You Around)

Greatest Hits 3:
Side 1:

Reflections

Love Child
I'm Gonna Make You Love Me [[with the Temptations)
Living In Shame
The Young Folks

Someday We'll Be Together

Side 2:
Somethings You Never Get Used To
In and Out of Love
No Matter What Sign You Are
I'll Try Something New [[with the Temptations)
Forever Came Today
The Composer

[sup_fan]

i'm not a huge Shame fan but agree that given it's chart positions, it would have had to been included on some sort of album. it's too bad they couldn't have held the LC lp up for a month and squeezed Shame onto it. but i realize that they wanted to tap into the Xmas shopping season with a hot record like LC.

So if I'm playing Producer for the Sunshine release, here's my version 1 - pop album with a lot of covers:

Aquarius/Sunshine
Composer
Western Union
shame
no matter what sign
will this be the day

Autumn Leaves
are you sure love
hey jude
macarthur park
everyday people

and here's version 2 - sort of a DRATS sing smokey. yes!! i'm actually recommending a Smokey lp for DRATS. not saying i would have bought it but i think the concept works lolol

Composer
are you sure love
sweet thing
sunny boy
treat me nice john henry
then [[i'd already played producer for all of the DRATS lps and redid Reflections. therefore i still had Then in my "vaults")

no matter what sign
will this be the day
western union
i'm living in shame
Aquarius/sunshine - would use a longer version than what was on original lp. longer like what was used in Like Hep

[daviddh]

I will have another listen to the Sunshine lp. I don't remember liking Discover Me but many seem to like it so i'll give it a listen. these lp seems so MOR listening to them.
I have to find the song Nitty Gritty. cant remember what cd its on but maybe I would include it in the Cream /Crop lp

[Jaap]

I have to find the song Nitty Gritty. cant remember what cd its on but maybe I would include it in the Cream /Crop lp

It is on the 2001 edition of The Supremes Anthology.

[Thornton]

I'd start by moving "I'm Livin' In Shame" to the "Love Child" album, and having the album come out in early 1969. I'd move "Someday We'll Be Together" to "Greatest Hits: Volume 3," and have the last studio album come out late summer/early fall of 1969.

Diana Ross and the Supremes: No Matter What Sign You Are

Side A:
1. No Matter What Sign You Are
2. Can't You See It's Me
3. Shadows of Society
4. The Young Folks
5. The Composer
6. Loving You Is Better Than Ever
Side B:
7. Hey Western Union Man
8. Will This Be The Day
9. You Gave Me Love
10. Discover Me [[And You'll Discover Love)
11. Stormy
12. The Beginning of the End

I'd also use the cover art from "Let The Sunshine In" with my alternate album title.

[daviddh]

i must be the only one who hates the artwork for LTSI. prefer Cream, minus Diane's big head. but i am glad we are still talking about the music 50 + years later

[longtimefan]

Thanks! I have always thought that the graphic arts on th “Cream of the Crop” LP were second rate. The huge head shot of Diana Ross [[whom I love and respect greatly), as simply too “sharp, i.e., ovrexposed showing every miniscule speck of what is actually stage make-up, e.g., eyeliner as example. Accentuating her as the group's superstar was logical, but the graphic arts should have been softened in some kind of way. Actually, since it was their final album, it wouldn’t have been so bad to utilize just one of the many beautiful photographs of Diana, Mary and Cindy together. To this day when I see it, I think he who on earth did this amateurish graphic design that was not even flattering to Diana?

[reese]

Thanks! I have always thought that the graphic arts on th “Cream of the Crop” LP were second rate. The huge head shot of Diana Ross [[whom I love and respect greatly), as simply too “sharp, i.e., ovrexposed showing every miniscule speck of what is actually stage make-up, e.g., eyeliner as example. Accentuating her as the group's superstar was logical, but the graphic arts should have been softened in some kind of way. Actually, since it was their final album, it wouldn’t have been so bad to utilize just one of the many beautiful photographs of Diana, Mary and Cindy together. To this day when I see it, I think he who on earth did this amateurish graphic design that was not even flattering to Diana?

Looking at it now, I'm surprised that both the front and back covers contain photos that were old. The front cover photo seems to be from summer/fall of 1968, while the back cover photo is from 1967. I guess once SOMEDAY began to hit, they wanted product on the market pronto.

But I will admit: I've always loved the CREAM OF THE CROP front cover. Diana's big head never bothered me. When I used to look at it on those old Motown 45 sleeves, it would remind me of the album cover for TOGETHER [[with the Tempts), another album with a big Diana.

[sup_fan]

both LTSI and Cream seems a bit shoddy for album art. slapped together.

with LTSI - the album was originally going to be called No Matter What Sign You Are. i don't know if the Aquarius/Sunshine medley would even have been included or not. it's the recording Diana lip synced to on Like Hep and so if Sign had been a hit, i wonder if the lp would have also included this cover. Once it was clear the record was a dud, they altered the album. here's a pic of i think a promotional poster for it

Attachment 14812

it also identifies the sign for each of the girls. i wonder if this would have been included on the back album graphics? Frankly i find the cover art a bit too obvious [[though not surprising) about singling Diana out, although had Sign been a success it would have been the final Sups single.

Cream is quite distracting with the mega-head on there. its just too much of a close up to be attractive. you can practically make our her pores! and while the group shot is a bit old, i do like it. although Diana's pixie afro wig was never my fav. and the back cover looked cheap. a very old pic of the girls. can't understand why they didn't use something more recent

same with the horrid graphics of GH3 - how on earth did they only consider group shots from 1967?!?! we know the girls did a zillion photo shoots. boggling that no one though to use something recent. or even to vary the front vs back cover art

[greg jones]

both LTSI and Cream seems a bit shoddy for album art. slapped together.

with LTSI - the album was originally going to be called No Matter What Sign You Are. i don't know if the Aquarius/Sunshine medley would even have been included or not. it's the recording Diana lip synced to on Like Hep and so if Sign had been a hit, i wonder if the lp would have also included this cover. Once it was clear the record was a dud, they altered the album. here's a pic of i think a promotional poster for it

Attachment 14812

it also identifies the sign for each of the girls. i wonder if this would have been included on the back album graphics? Frankly i find the cover art a bit too obvious [[though not surprising) about singling Diana out, although had Sign been a success it would have been the final Sups single.

Cream is quite distracting with the mega-head on there. its just too much of a close up to be attractive. you can practically make our her pores! and while the group shot is a bit old, i do like it. although Diana's pixie afro wig was never my fav. and the back cover looked cheap. a very old pic of the girls. can't understand why they didn't use something more recent

same with the horrid graphics of GH3 - how on earth did they only consider group shots from 1967?!?! we know the girls did a zillion photo shoots. boggling that no one though to use something recent. or even to vary the front vs back cover art

The album cover art for No Matter What Sign You Are and Let The Sunshine In was designed by Dean Torrance's KittyHawk Graphics here in LA. Dean Torrance is the Dean from Jan & Dean.

As far cover songs used on their last 2 studio albums, covers were still very popular at the time for pop and r&b artists that also had a high appeal to Easy Listening/Adult Contemporary Markets.

For the Cream Of The Crop cover, it appears that they used still from appearance for one of their TV show appearances.

I do feel that Berry Gordy & Motown were not putting huge thoughts into the album song selections at this time. More in artist development and pushing towards tv and movies, etc.

[bradsupremes]

Cream Of The Crop
Side One
1.) Someday We'll Be Together
2.) You Gave Me Love
3.) I'm Livin' In Shame
4.) Will This Be The Day
5.) No Matter What Sign You Are
6.) A Little Breeze

Side Two
1.) Loving You Is Better Than Ever
2.) Till Johnny Comes
3.) When It's To The Top [[Still I Won't Stop Giving You Love)
4.) Stormy
5.) Discover Me [[And You'll Discover Love)
6.) You're Gonna Hear From Me

[daviddh]

who is the guy who does the cover art mock up. i think we need him for a mock up for this album