Merry Clayton talks about someday we’ll be together

[marv2]

Merry Clayton is a great singer. No one could top her on the Rolling Stones "Gimme Shelter". She's been in films and had her own hits. God Bless her!

[marv2]

other than mary's date in her chronology, i don't have any other recording info on These Things. in the small booklet that came with the Diana Ross 1970 album reissue in the early 2000s, they didn't go into any details about the recording dates and sessions. And there's been little on Someday other than it was recorded June 16. no other dates are known. so don't know if that was when the initial backing track was recorded, when string were added, when lead or backgrounds were added, etc.

You see when they leave information out like that, it leaves you wondering.

[Boogiedown]

Clayton surely represents herself in a less-than-admirable light. Diana sings 'Someday' like an angel and no one could ever top her version. Others [[like Merry herself, perhaps) would have done a screamin' - hollerin' - squallin' reading of the song but Diana [[as Bristol says) 'sang it pretty' and we love her for it. It's sad that so many also-rans retain bitterness at the fact of others' successes for decades but we have to accept that. I wish Merry Clayton well, hope she is able to cope with her health, thank her for her wonderful vocals through the years, and I don't hold her own grudges against her.

??
Did you watch the video being discussed here?
Merry says nothing about Diana Ross.

[khansperac]

Merry Clayton maybe respected, but she didn’t need to disrespect Mary and Cindy by calling them Milli Vanilli.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Merry Clayton maybe respected, but she didn’t need to disrespect Mary and Cindy by calling them Milli Vanilli.

Perfectly stated. Mary and Cindy had nothing to do with the decision to be or not be included on any Supremes record. Pretty much all fans would have preferred that Mary & Cindy had been on each and every cut.

[Boogiedown]

well, when you pretend you are on a record when you aren't.......

[marv2]

well, when you pretend you are on a record when you aren't.......

I know Mary Wilson never pretended that. In fact, she is the FIRST person to publicly state that she, nor Cindy Birdsong were on that and other recordings from the late sixties. She wrote about it in "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme". That is why these guys talk so much about it today. It was she that shared that information.

[Boogiedown]

I know Mary Wilson never pretended that. In fact, she is the FIRST person to publicly state that she, nor Cindy Birdsong were on that and other recordings from the late sixties. She wrote about it in "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme". That is why these guys talk so much about it today. It was she that shared that information.

Maybe so , but that was years later when it no longer mattered. At the time of its release , they were very willing to stand on stage and perform it as if this were a record they were involved in , as was misstated on the record.
That would be , very .....Milli Vanilli.

[marv2]

Maybe so , but that was years later when it no longer mattered. At the time of its release , they were very willing to stand on stage and perform it as if this were a record they were involved in , as was misstated on the record.
That would be , very .....Milli Vanilli.

You do understand that Motown directed and was in control of everything at that time? You could hardly blame the Supremes for it.

[Boogiedown]

You do understand that Motown directed and was in control of everything at that time? You could hardly blame the Supremes for it.

ever heard of "collusion" ??? lol!!!

[marv2]

This is an example of the Motown PR Department's work back at the time this song was released and on the charts:

[marv2]

ever heard of "collusion" ??? Lol!!!

stop! Lol!!!!!!

[Jimi LaLumia]

Marv is correct, Mary was the first to be open about this..
and Ross hinted at it when she said something to the effect of "I don't know what they're complaining about, I do all the work.." I didn't know at the time but she was obviously referring to being Gordy's studio slave while the girls were off on vacations and it was not collusion, it was an ILLUSION created by Motown that these were "Supremes' records.. they were Diana Ross records

[Jimi LaLumia]

as I've also stated in the past, there were many 60's singles released as Beatles that were actually just Paul on the record [[Yesterday; Michelle) or just Paul and John [[the top 10 "Ballad Of John And Yoko")..I don't recall Beatles fans mekting down over the absence of George and Ringo on quite a few of the big hits credited to BEATLES

[bradsupremes]

I was under the impression that both songs were cut during the same session.

"Someday" was cut in June 1969. "These Things" was cut in November 1969. Most likely when Motown saw "Someday" gaining momentum on the charts they had Bristol cut another similar sounding track as a follow-up either for Diana or the Supremes. It was intended for the Supremes but reassigned to Diana.

[RanRan79]

"Someday" was cut in June 1969. "These Things" was cut in November 1969. Most likely when Motown saw "Someday" gaining momentum on the charts they had Bristol cut another similar sounding track as a follow-up either for Diana or the Supremes. It was intended for the Supremes but reassigned to Diana.

Oh okay. Well it sure would be great if a Jean lead on the song surfaced. I could hear her singing it.

[milven]

Oh okay. Well it sure would be great if a Jean lead on the song surfaced. I could hear her singing it.

Here is a live performance of Jean Terrel and The Supremes singing SOMEDAY WE'LL BE TOGETHER with Smokey Robinson

[Boogiedown]

as I've also stated in the past, there were many 60's singles released as Beatles that were actually just Paul on the record [[Yesterday; Michelle) or just Paul and John [[the top 10 "Ballad Of John And Yoko")..I don't recall Beatles fans mekting down over the absence of George and Ringo on quite a few of the big hits credited to BEATLES

But the Beatles never brought in outside people to sing their parts and try to pass them off as them. When you hear John Lennon , it's him singing. [[not Merry Clayton lol!)

[Boogiedown]

Marv is correct, Mary was the first to be open about this..
and Ross hinted at it when she said something to the effect of "I don't know what they're complaining about, I do all the work.." I didn't know at the time but she was obviously referring to being Gordy's studio slave while the girls were off on vacations and it was not collusion, it was an ILLUSION created by Motown that these were "Supremes' records.. they were Diana Ross records

well Milli Vanilli were an illusion too, so I don't understand why some object to the comparison. Merry Clayton is just telling it like it is.

It is collusion of the illusion when you know the deceit is taking place and you allow it to happen , especially when by participating in the fraud you gain by it.
I do agree with your last assertion, these were Diana Ross records, not Diana Ross and The Supremes records.

[marv2]

But the Beatles never brought in outside people to sing their parts and try to pass them off as them. When you hear John Lennon , it's him singing. [[not Merry Clayton lol!)

They sure brought in other people to play their musical parts though. According to Quincy Jones, the Beatles were not very good musicians and at times they brought in skilled Jazz musicians to play on their records. Sometimes some of the Beatles did not even know that it was not them that were playing!

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...s-in-the-world

[marv2]

Here is a huge list of folks that performed on Beatles recordings including background vocals. They used everyone from Eric Clapton to Donovan on their background vocals! LOL!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...les_recordings

[milven]

... According to Quincy Jones, the Beatles were not very good musicians and at times they brought in skilled Jazz musicians to play on their records. Sometimes some of the Beatles did not even know that it was not them that were playing!...

In this Supremes discussion, are you suggesting that the Supremes were not very good singers and at times they brought in skilled session singers to sing on their records. Sometimes some of the Supremes did not even know that it was not them that were singing?

[144man]

In general, would anyone but the producers know who had done the vocal overdubs on the backing tracks that were eventually used if, as we are told, the finished product was assembled like a motor car?

[marybrewster]

I know Mary Wilson never pretended that. In fact, she is the FIRST person to publicly state that she, nor Cindy Birdsong were on that and other recordings from the late sixties. She wrote about it in "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme". That is why these guys talk so much about it today. It was she that shared that information.

https://youtu.be/Av4Ve94tJvw

[marv2]

https://youtu.be/Av4Ve94tJvw

Didn't you listen to what she said in the clip you chose to dispute what I said previously? She said "This is the last song I recorded with Diane in 1970...." She is still telling the truth. "The Farewell Album" was recorded on January 14, 1970 and released on April 13, 1970.

On that album the very last song recorded by Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong is "Someday We'll Be Together". I don't know what you have against Mary Wilson, but she is not a liar. She doesn't always remember everything from 30,40 or 50 years ago, but I know her and she is not a liar! Thanks

[marv2]

In this Supremes discussion, are you suggesting that the Supremes were not very good singers and at times they brought in skilled session singers to sing on their records. Sometimes some of the Supremes did not even know that it was not them that were singing?

I don't know where you read that I said that,but I suggest you go there and read it again. I never said the Supremes were not very good singers. The Supremes were excellent singers. Always have been.

[marybrewster]

Didn't you listen to what she said in the clip you chose to dispute what I said previously? She said "This is the last song I recorded with Diane in 1970...." She is still telling the truth. "The Farewell Album" was recorded on January 14, 1970 and released on April 13, 1970.

On that album the very last song recorded by Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong is "Someday We'll Be Together". I don't know what you have against Mary Wilson, but she is not a liar. She doesn't always remember everything from 30,40 or 50 years ago, but I know her and she is not a liar! Thanks

https://youtu.be/Gf9K7VLgtXY

Here's Mary again introducing "Love Child" a song SHE recorded with Diana AND FLORENCE.

[marybrewster]

Didn't you listen to what she said in the clip you chose to dispute what I said previously? She said "This is the last song I recorded with Diane in 1970...." She is still telling the truth. "The Farewell Album" was recorded on January 14, 1970 and released on April 13, 1970.

On that album the very last song recorded by Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong is "Someday We'll Be Together". I don't know what you have against Mary Wilson, but she is not a liar. She doesn't always remember everything from 30,40 or 50 years ago, but I know her and she is not a liar! Thanks

I have nothing against Mary Wilson whatsoever. Many fans on this forum who know me know I've adored her for years, and have actually done some side work for Mary. So let's not go down that road.

It's just funny how selective her memory is. My only goal is to keep things truthful when she has not been.

[blackguy69]

Both Mary and Diana has have slips when introducing songs

[Jimi LaLumia]

when Mary Wilson is on stage doing "Supremes' songs, she is there to entertain, not to educate.. the average non Forum person in any audience couldn't care less who was on what record, nor did they buy a ticket for a lecture on who did what to who...lol

[floyjoy678]

Yeah I don't think it's a big deal, it's like I heard Nedra of the Ronettes talking "we did Baby I Love You in 1963" and she's not on that song, well about 80% of the Ronettes songs for that matter.

[jobeterob]

when Mary Wilson is on stage doing "Supremes' songs, she is there to entertain, not to educate.. the average non Forum person in any audience couldn't care less who was on what record, nor did they buy a ticket for a lecture on who did what to who...lol

Totally agree.

That's the whole flaw in what Merry Clayton says; it does not elevate her position and cut down the Supremes. What was done in the studio wasn't all that unusual and Motown was sweetening the sound in 1963 before the sound was even established. Just the same, this only blows up when you try and pretend that the Miracles and Pips and Vandellas and Supremes mattered as much as Smokey, Gladys, Martha and Diana. Personally, they did. To super fans, they did. To the public, they are generally generic and unidentifiable, no matter what version of Merry or Mary they use.

[Boogiedown]

it's like the fake news crowd.
don't bother us with truths. It gets in the way of what we want to believe.

[marv2]

when Mary Wilson is on stage doing "Supremes' songs, she is there to entertain, not to educate.. the average non Forum person in any audience couldn't care less who was on what record, nor did they buy a ticket for a lecture on who did what to who...lol

You better say that Jimi!!! LOL!

[LoveSupreme]

Once Florence was gone and the group's name changed to "Diana Ross and the Supremes" all semblance of a group went out the window. They were a group for stage and television appearances only - - - on records it was clearly only Diana's voice that was utilized.

Berry was slick that way. He saved money by utilizing other singers to back Diana up - he wouldn't have to pay them as much as he would Mary, or even Cindy, the reasoning was that no one would know the difference, and guess what? No one did!

The label may have read "Diana Ross and the Supremes" but the unsuspecting public were technically purchasing Diana Ross solo records. That's why it was so very easy to take an intended solo recording meant for Diana Ross' solo debut and switch it into a "Supremes" record. The sound was the same - it was all interchangeable.

If Diana had not left the group in 1970 I believe all her early 1970's material would have been recorded in very much the same way and simply credited to "Diana Ross and the Supremes". Songs like "ANMHI", "Reach Out..." even "I'm Still Waiting" could have easily been passed off as "DRATS" recordings and no one would have known the difference.

[marv2]

Once Florence was gone and the group's name changed to "Diana Ross and the Supremes" all semblance of a group went out the window. They were a group for stage and television appearances only - - - on records it was clearly only Diana's voice that was utilized.

Berry was slick that way. He saved money by utilizing other singers to back Diana up - he wouldn't have to pay them as much as he would Mary, or even Cindy, the reasoning was that no one would know the difference, and guess what? No one did!

The label may have read "Diana Ross and the Supremes" but the unsuspecting public were technically purchasing Diana Ross solo records. That's why it was so very easy to take an intended solo recording meant for Diana Ross' solo debut and switch it into a "Supremes" record. The sound was the same - it was all interchangeable.

If Diana had not left the group in 1970 I believe all her early 1970's material would have been recorded in very much the same way and simply credited to "Diana Ross and the Supremes". Songs like "ANMHI", "Reach Out..." even "I'm Still Waiting" could have easily been passed off as "DRATS" recordings and no one would have known the difference.

He may have saved time, but not money because Mary and Cindy received royalties for those recordings done in the late 60s. Motown also had to pay the session singers.