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  1. #51
    i think the Motown Album coffee table book was a little more for dedicated fans rather than Motown 25. sure it's still a bit light on content but contains lovely pics throughout and highlights a lot of the smaller groups.

    plus the discography in the back of the book does a nice job of highlight important material and no solely focused on the smokey/marvin/diana/stevie material

  2. #52
    I agree with Sup Fan, mostly. The first thing to remember is that this was a television special and therefore television rules. Had this been a PBS focused program, one might have expected more history, but this was NBC and the idea was to pull in ratings. Of course to diehards the show should've included folks like Brenda Holloway, Kim Weston, the Originals, etc, but that would not have done much for the average viewer. The Motown generation would've tuned in to see the big names: the Supremes, the Tempts, Tops, Martha, Mary Wells, J5, and a few others. Debarge surely would've brought in some of the younger crowd, as would the hype about MJ's performance. Of course that doesn't negate some of the obvious bad moves.

    I'm not buying for a second that because Suzanne joined in 68 that she wouldn't have known to reach out to the Marvelettes. The Marvelettes were still very much with Motown in 68, while Mary Wells had been gone for years by that time, yet Suzanne had enough sense to ask her to participate. Maybe only Gladys Horton would've performed, but at least the group that gave Motown it's first Hot 100 number one would've been represented. (As well as the Marvelettes were one of the few acts in the early days who kept Motown afloat.)

    James Jamerson having to buy a ticket is disgusting. The Vandellas not being present is either the fault of DePasse or Reeves or both. Still a shame. Relegating Mary Wells, Martha Reeves and Junior Walker to snippets of one song each was just sad. Personally I would've told Suzanne and the powers that be to kiss my entire Black ass, but I do understand why they chose not to do that.

    Ultimately the program turned out very well. And let's be real: Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" eclipsed everything right and wrong about that show. His performance became iconic.

  3. #53
    its a shame that the performers were simply relegated to their small, allotted segment and then you had that huge production earlier with the dancers and all doing Dancing In The Street. Martha commented how inappropriate it was that her air time was minuscule and then they used her song so prominently earlier. it's too bad some stars couldn't have at least had the option to participate in earlier/other segments. sure that would have involved more rehearsal time and if the star(s) were willing to do it, they should have been allowed.

  4. #54
    Although the micheal jackson performance was great,seeing the miracles sing[oo baby baby]would've brought down the house also the temps doing[memories]with dennis on lead-are you kidding me?

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    Although the micheal jackson performance was great,seeing the miracles sing[oo baby baby]would've brought down the house also the temps doing[memories]with dennis on lead-are you kidding me?
    I agree. I wished had let the Temptations and Four Tops have separate segments after the battle of the groups segment. I would have love to have seen Kim Weston there doing "Take Me In Your Arms".

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    Although the micheal jackson performance was great,seeing the miracles sing[oo baby baby]would've brought down the house also the temps doing[memories]with dennis on lead-are you kidding me?
    Nope, not kidding you. As great as those moments would have been, they could not have overshadowed "Billie Jean". As I said before, the moment was iconic. Even if the Miracles had gotten together to do "Ooh Baby, Baby" or the Tempts doing "Memories", neither of those would be iconic moments, as great as they would be. When you talked about the Miracles forever more or the Tempts forever more, you won't be talking about what they did at Motown 25. You'll talk about the Miracles "Shop Around" perhaps being the first time you really took notice of Motown, or how the Miracles' 'Ooh Baby Baby" was the soundtrack to a special moment at a blue light party in somebody's basement. You'll talk about the Temptations' "My Girl" being on the radio 24/7 or how "I Can't Get Next to You" got the party started. Those are career defining moments to the public, the effect that the music had. But nobody remembers anything at Motown 25 as career defining except for Michael's moment. When MJ's life is recalled, his performance at Motown 25 is always highlighted. It was one of the most memorable moments in music of the 1980s. Iconic. It's the moment everyone remembers.

  7. #57
    Motown diehards need to chill lol

    No way a regular old Joe Schmoe would remember Smokey singing with the Miracles that night. But they can tell you how they imitated MJ's dance move while wearing one of their winter mittens.

  8. #58
    Ok,ok before any shots are fired over ft. Motown[smile]i totally agree with you both about mj's historic performance,what i'm saying is that why not let the artist have more than just a quick moment and then poof..put away the muskets and cannons and stand at ease..motown forever!!!

  9. #59
    i agree with (overall) the list of artists invited back. my one change would be to add the marvelettes and include them in some sort of manner with the early years and how they had the first #1

    then the other artists like Mary Wells, Martha, and JR would be allowed to sing for longer

    it's a good point that it's too bad the Temps and Tops weren't able to sing slightly more of their songs although the battle is a fun concept.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Motown diehards need to chill lol

    No way a regular old Joe Schmoe would remember Smokey singing with the Miracles that night. But they can tell you how they imitated MJ's dance move while wearing one of their winter mittens.
    You say that because you were totally amazed with Michael Jackson's performance. I was college at the time and did not expect anything less from Michael that night. As far as regular people not remembering Smokey singing with the original Miracles that night you would be wrong. This show was in 1983 and there were a whole lot more Baby Boomers around then that easily remembered that 20-25 years earlier, the Miracles were a top, favorite group. Motown 25 was the motivation for all of the "Big Chill" music interest that started up shortly afterwards and the Miracles were a big part of that. All teenagers in America in the early to mid 60s remember dancing to "Ooo Baby, Baby". I was around even though I was a young kid so I "kinda" know what I am talking about here. Everyone that heard the Miracles in those days loved at least one of their songs.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i agree with (overall) the list of artists invited back. my one change would be to add the marvelettes and include them in some sort of manner with the early years and how they had the first #1

    then the other artists like Mary Wells, Martha, and JR would be allowed to sing for longer

    it's a good point that it's too bad the Temps and Tops weren't able to sing slightly more of their songs although the battle is a fun concept.
    They could have cut one of the comedy numbers (Motor Mouth John Ushida (sp?) and that long dance number using Marvin Gaye's "I Want You". That way they could have included a little bit of Jimmy Ruffin, Brenda Holloway and Kim Weston. How about the Velvelettes?.

    For the final broadcast version, TG Sheppard, Jose Feliciano and a few others were edited completely out. They do appear on the commercial video release with the additional 25 mins. To have no mention of the Funk Brothers was a crime!

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    They could have cut one of the comedy numbers (Motor Mouth John Ushida (sp?) and that long dance number using Marvin Gaye's "I Want You". That way they could have included a little bit of Jimmy Ruffin, Brenda Holloway and Kim Weston. How about the Velvelettes?.

    For the final broadcast version, TG Sheppard, Jose Feliciano and a few others were edited completely out. They do appear on the commercial video release with the additional 25 mins. To have no mention of the Funk Brothers was a crime!
    the goal was to have a variety show and therefore wanted the dance segments, the non-motown artists, the comedy routines. And for the casual viewer, Motor Mouth Ushida was in a ton of 80s commercials and familiar. Those smaller artists simply didn't have the mass appeal - Velvelettes had 0 US Billboard Top 40 hits, Jimmy had 1 top ten and 2 mid-sized pop hits, brenda had 2 top 40 hits, kim had 1 top 40 song

    now as a die-hard motown enthusiast, i have songs from all of these artists on playlists. but do devote air time to any of these within the confines of a 2 hour variety show just doesn't make much sense. strictly from the business and ratings perspective

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    the goal was to have a variety show and therefore wanted the dance segments, the non-motown artists, the comedy routines. And for the casual viewer, Motor Mouth Ushida was in a ton of 80s commercials and familiar. Those smaller artists simply didn't have the mass appeal - Velvelettes had 0 US Billboard Top 40 hits, Jimmy had 1 top ten and 2 mid-sized pop hits, brenda had 2 top 40 hits, kim had 1 top 40 song

    now as a die-hard motown enthusiast, i have songs from all of these artists on playlists. but do devote air time to any of these within the confines of a 2 hour variety show just doesn't make much sense. strictly from the business and ratings perspective
    They should have been on the show. They even should have introduced the unsung heroes of Motown if even just from the audience. They should have introduced Esther Gordy Edwards who was there in the audience. Those artists I mentioned should have been included and cut out all of the corny crap that was included. It would have been a much better show.........

  14. #64
    all of us here on the forum would have loved a more comprehensive show focusing on all of the many wonderful artists, performers, musicians, etc. But the avg American might not have been and therefore the ratings wouldn't have been as strong. as broadcast, it won an emmy

    this was never really about documenting and celebrating everything of motown. For christ's sake - it wasn't even really the 25th anniversary. it was only the 24th. it was meant to be a publicity juggernaut surrounded by the veil of a benefit for sickle cell that would hype the legend of motown, sell a tons of rehashed greatest hits and hopefully provide both the tv production dept and the current top artists on the label with some sales

    there was absolutely 0 sentimentality around this - don't try to convince yourself otherwise

    you can't tell me that they didn't have this full line of records and cassettes waiting in the wings to release the minute the special was done:

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  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    they should have been on the show. They even should have introduced the unsung heroes of motown if even just from the audience. They should have introduced esther gordy edwards who was there in the audience. Those artists i mentioned should have been included and cut out all of the corny crap that was included. It would have been a much better show.........
    amen marv,amen!!

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by phil View Post
    For me just the fact that James Jamerson had to buy a ticket speaks volumes...
    Amen. Motown 25's biggest mistake. The Funk Brothers should have been there, spotlighted and honored.

    (Gladys Horton should also have been on stage with Martha Reeves, Mary Wells and Jr. Walker, singing Postman).

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    all of us here on the forum would have loved a more comprehensive show focusing on all of the many wonderful artists, performers, musicians, etc. But the avg American might not have been and therefore the ratings wouldn't have been as strong. as broadcast, it won an emmy

    this was never really about documenting and celebrating everything of motown. For christ's sake - it wasn't even really the 25th anniversary. it was only the 24th. it was meant to be a publicity juggernaut surrounded by the veil of a benefit for sickle cell that would hype the legend of motown, sell a tons of rehashed greatest hits and hopefully provide both the tv production dept and the current top artists on the label with some sales

    there was absolutely 0 sentimentality around this - don't try to convince yourself otherwise

    you can't tell me that they didn't have this full line of records and cassettes waiting in the wings to release the minute the special was done:

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    Right. Again the hardcore Motowners going on about how the special was about the legends when it really wasn't!

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky2012 View Post
    Amen. Motown 25's biggest mistake. The Funk Brothers should have been there, spotlighted and honored.

    (Gladys Horton should also have been on stage with Martha Reeves, Mary Wells and Jr. Walker, singing Postman).
    Lucky2012, all of those omissions were a travesty! Suzanne DePasse was responsible for all of that. It is ironic that she would not even had a job if it were not for all of those talented, hard working Detroiters that built Motown to begin with! She could've done a roll call of all those great people that made it possible for her to come to Motown.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    all of us here on the forum would have loved a more comprehensive show focusing on all of the many wonderful artists, performers, musicians, etc. But the avg American might not have been and therefore the ratings wouldn't have been as strong. as broadcast, it won an emmy

    this was never really about documenting and celebrating everything of motown. For christ's sake - it wasn't even really the 25th anniversary. it was only the 24th. it was meant to be a publicity juggernaut surrounded by the veil of a benefit for sickle cell that would hype the legend of motown, sell a tons of rehashed greatest hits and hopefully provide both the tv production dept and the current top artists on the label with some sales

    there was absolutely 0 sentimentality around this - don't try to convince yourself otherwise

    you can't tell me that they didn't have this full line of records and cassettes waiting in the wings to release the minute the special was done:

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    The "Average American" is not that dumb!

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i think the Motown Album coffee table book was a little more for dedicated fans rather than Motown 25. sure it's still a bit light on content but contains lovely pics throughout and highlights a lot of the smaller groups.

    plus the discography in the back of the book does a nice job of highlight important material and no solely focused on the smokey/marvin/diana/stevie material
    Yeah, lots were going on in the show. People forget Richard Pryor hosted the show lol

    Also, I have to say I was disappointed with how Motown used DeBarge and High Inergy. I mean the performance was okay but they didn't even let High Inergy perform their own song. DeBarge was at least given a few seconds to perform All This Love! Lol

    It's weird because I wished they had used I Like It but I guess they had just released All This Love as the second single.

    Also, I don't think Rick James performed. That would've been a big highlight too.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    They should have been on the show. They even should have introduced the unsung heroes of Motown if even just from the audience. They should have introduced Esther Gordy Edwards who was there in the audience. Those artists I mentioned should have been included and cut out all of the corny crap that was included. It would have been a much better show.........
    Yeah crap like Adam Ant - tacky to say the least.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Yeah, lots were going on in the show. People forget Richard Pryor hosted the show lol

    Also, I have to say I was disappointed with how Motown used DeBarge and High Inergy. I mean the performance was okay but they didn't even let High Inergy perform their own song. DeBarge was at least given a few seconds to perform All This Love! Lol

    It's weird because I wished they had used I Like It but I guess they had just released All This Love as the second single.

    Also, I don't think Rick James performed. That would've been a big highlight too.
    High Inergy performed their song "He's A Pretender" on the show. There performance with DeBarge received a standing ovation that night.

    Rick James refused to performed because in his words "I would feel like a hypocrite being on stage with all of those performers that left Motown while he was still at the company helping to keep it a float"
    (I am paraphrasing, but that is pretty much what he said at the time when asked why he was not there.)

    Lionel Richie refused to perform because the Commodores were invited to perform. He instead taped a segment with a little girl afflicted with Sickle Cell Anemia.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Yeah crap like Adam Ant - tacky to say the least.
    Yep, but what was really tacky was when Diana Ross came out right in the middle of his performance and started doing a bump n' grind aka "the Booty Green" dance that was once popular in the Detroit ghetto.

  24. #74
    I now remember that "Motown 25" is the very first show I ever videotaped! I had to go and rent a VCR somewhere in Denver and figure out how to hook it up before the show started LOL!!!

  25. #75
    I doubt Berry wasn’t too happy with his protege dancing like that. Maxine Powell prob had a fit lol!

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    The "Average American" is not that dumb!
    i never said or implied that they were dumb. just that they frankly wouldn't care. not every single citizen on the US is a collector or historian of Motown. the avg American probably recognized It Takes Two. and maybe they'd know it was Marvin Gaye and some woman. there's no way the avg American has any name recognition of "Kim Weston."

    and for most of the population that was under 20 at the time of the special, odds are the "oldies" weren't of huge interest. Sure Lionel was hot at the time, Debarge, Diana had had some big hits. Smokey had a couple recent ones. But Martha, mary Wells, Tempts, Four Tops, Jr walker, etc were not performers that a jr high kid would really have related all that much too. Adam Ant was current. Motor Mouth was current.

    again, you're wrong in your assumption that this was a documentary or a historical synopsis of motown. this was a variety special celebrating the old and new of motown with the intent of driving commercial impact. there was a limited amount of air time and they made the decisions that they did based on creating a special that would drive interest and sales in motown material and be a rating success.

  27. #77
    why would berry not be happy? sure it wasn't the "mashed potato" or the "twist" but it was a marvelously innovative performance by one of the most gifted performers of the time. and the performer was on stage paying tribute to the man and company that was responsible for their discovery and launch.

    btw in To Be Loved berry talks about the immense pride he felt watching michael

  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    I doubt Berry wasn’t too happy with his protege dancing like that. Maxine Powell prob had a fit lol!
    Truth be told, Mr. Gordy was livid with her that night. He even barred her from attending the after party across the street from the theater at a shopping mall. LOL!

  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i never said or implied that they were dumb. just that they frankly wouldn't care. not every single citizen on the US is a collector or historian of Motown. the avg American probably recognized It Takes Two. and maybe they'd know it was Marvin Gaye and some woman. there's no way the avg American has any name recognition of "Kim Weston."

    and for most of the population that was under 20 at the time of the special, odds are the "oldies" weren't of huge interest. Sure Lionel was hot at the time, Debarge, Diana had had some big hits. Smokey had a couple recent ones. But Martha, mary Wells, Tempts, Four Tops, Jr walker, etc were not performers that a jr high kid would really have related all that much too. Adam Ant was current. Motor Mouth was current.

    again, you're wrong in your assumption that this was a documentary or a historical synopsis of motown. this was a variety special celebrating the old and new of motown with the intent of driving commercial impact. there was a limited amount of air time and they made the decisions that they did based on creating a special that would drive interest and sales in motown material and be a rating success.
    But see you have it wrong. That special was not geared towards Jr. High School aged kids in the 80s. It was geared toward the Baby Boomers and those just a bit older as those were the largest demographic groups in America in the 1980s. Motown was the music that everyone heard and partied to just less than 20 years prior to the 1983 TV special.

  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Truth be told, Mr. Gordy was livid with her that night. He even barred her from attending the after party across the street from the theater at a shopping mall. LOL!
    Please provide a credible link to Mr Gordy barring Diane Ross from attending the party.

  31. #81
    hahaha - i thought yall were referring to Michael doing the moonwalk as the protege dancing on stage

    now i get it. diana coming out and dancing with adam ant

  32. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    But see you have it wrong. That special was not geared towards Jr. High School aged kids in the 80s. It was geared toward the Baby Boomers and those just a bit older as those were the largest demographic groups in America in the 1980s. Motown was the music that everyone heard and partied to just less than 20 years prior to the 1983 TV special.
    yes the older music was definitely aimed at the older demographic which covers the "yesterday" part of the theme. but having Michael, Adam ant, debarge, High Inergy, Lionel and then even Diana and Marvin were all to bring in the younger viewers and the "today" element.

    where you're mistaken is in your thinking that the special was only about highlighting the past. if it was, none of these younger artists would have been included and it would have been more like Motown 40 where they do a long retrospective of the history of the company.

    The subtitle of this program is clear - Yesterday, Today, Forever. they're trying to sprinkle some of the magic dust from the past onto the current and hopefully future.

  33. #83
    Yeah the title should've been the sign there: "yesterday, TODAY, and forever"...

    I don't know why folks are acting this clueless to why Adam Ant was there! LOL

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    why would berry not be happy? sure it wasn't the "mashed potato" or the "twist" but it was a marvelously innovative performance by one of the most gifted performers of the time. and the performer was on stage paying tribute to the man and company that was responsible for their discovery and launch.

    btw in To Be Loved berry talks about the immense pride he felt watching michael
    Berry said it was one of the greatest things he ever saw. What is up with some Soulful Detroiters here?! Revisionist history especially with the older heads?! YIKES!!!

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    yes the older music was definitely aimed at the older demographic which covers the "yesterday" part of the theme. but having Michael, Adam ant, debarge, High Inergy, Lionel and then even Diana and Marvin were all to bring in the younger viewers and the "today" element.

    where you're mistaken is in your thinking that the special was only about highlighting the past. if it was, none of these younger artists would have been included and it would have been more like Motown 40 where they do a long retrospective of the history of the company.

    The subtitle of this program is clear - Yesterday, Today, Forever. they're trying to sprinkle some of the magic dust from the past onto the current and hopefully future.
    This is where you take liberties with your own mind! LOL! Not once did I say that the special was only about highlighting the past. No, Diana and Marvin could not have been considered a part of Motown.."today" even in March 1983 when they taped the show. Both were no longer signed to the label by the time of the special. Their contributions were strictly "yesterday" relating to Motown and the music they recorded while there. I don't know anything about Adam Ant, but I do know that El DeBarge, Barbara Mitchell and I are all the same age. I was in my last year of college at that time so I guess we were the "today" demographic. Now, who represented Jr. High School aged children on the special?
    Last edited by marv2; 10-11-2018 at 09:06 PM.

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Berry said it was one of the greatest things he ever saw. What is up with some Soulful Detroiters here?! Revisionist history especially with the older heads?! YIKES!!!
    You need to do some self inspection. Talk about revisionist, you are the one that said that High Inergy were not allowed to perform one of their own songs on the program. That is not true. The Motown 25 TV special I saw, they performed "He's A Pretender" from their latest album at that time. Soooooooo.................I guess us older heads have a better memory than you kid. LOL!
    Last edited by marv2; 10-11-2018 at 08:43 PM.

  37. #87
    As Marv has said it was the Big Chill era then. Every book I have read about the event said that the Supremes reunion was what most excited people and we all know what happened there and of course Michael stole the show. The excitement that people had was to see The Supremes, the 4 Tops, Martha and Mary etc. All of my friends who were by no means Motown fanatics were looking forward to seeing the classic artists and were not pleased that especially the Marvelettes weren’t there. Suzanne De Passé was ignorant.

  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    As Marv has said it was the Big Chill era then. Every book I have read about the event said that the Supremes reunion was what most excited people and we all know what happened there and of course Michael stole the show. The excitement that people had was to see The Supremes, the 4 Tops, Martha and Mary etc. All of my friends who were by no means Motown fanatics were looking forward to seeing the classic artists and were not pleased that especially the Marvelettes weren’t there. Suzanne De Passé was ignorant.
    Oh yeah there was a lot of anticipation surrounding the Supremes reunion. Several times a day leading up to air time, NBC showed promos highlighting their reunion by showing a few moments of Mary, Diana and Cindy on stage together. The target audience was definitely Baby Boomers aka "The Bill Chill" generation. I can promise you that no one at Motown Productions were having meetings trying to decide how to get children to watch LOL!!!! If that were even remotely true, they would have gotten Big Bird to host and not Richard Pryor!

  39. #89
    Mary and Diana were 38 years old at the time!

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    As Marv has said it was the Big Chill era then. Every book I have read about the event said that the Supremes reunion was what most excited people and we all know what happened there and of course Michael stole the show. The excitement that people had was to see The Supremes, the 4 Tops, Martha and Mary etc. All of my friends who were by no means Motown fanatics were looking forward to seeing the classic artists and were not pleased that especially the Marvelettes weren’t there. Suzanne De Passé was ignorant.
    The Big Chill and the Big Chill Soundtrack wasn't released until September 1983 and Motown 25 first aired in May 1983 so you and Marvs Big Chill era theory dont cut the mustard.
    Last edited by Roberta75; 10-12-2018 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Correct dates

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Mary and Diana were 38 years old at the time!
    Nope........They had both turned 39 that March in fact Diane Ross turned 39 after the taping that night.

  42. #92
    Mary's birthday is March 6th, Diana's is March 26th.

    The show was taped on March 25th. Mary was already 39. Diana turned that age after taping.

    Either way, they both were pushing 40. LOL

    And they both got overshadowed by some 24-year-old kid with a glitter glove, fedora and moves of a ballerina mixed with James Brown-influenced swag.

    It was all about Michael, baby. Not about a group that had ceased to exist for about six years. Lol

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    The Big Chill and the Big Chill Soundtrack wasn't released until September 2003 and Motown 25 first aired in May 2003 so you and Marvs Big Chill era theory dont cut the mustard.
    I know you meant 1983.

    And if anything, the Big Chill did more wonders for MARVIN (and the Temptations) than Motown itself...

    In fact, of the "legends" that performed that night, only Marvin and Michael had the biggest hits of the nation at the time. Diana who? Mary who? Spinners who? Martha who? LOL

    Also, going back to Big Chill, I just checked the soundtrack listing. I see two of Marvin, two of the Tempts, one Marvelettes tune, two Miracles tunes, one Four Tops tune and one Martha & the Vandellas tune.

    GUESS WHICH ACT WAS MISSING FROM THE SOUNDTRACK...

    ANYWAYS... yeah, people are getting their timelines mixed up, I know some of y'all were there and you're getting old but you're not senile, guys, are you?

    Like Motown 25 was taped in EARLY '83. Had it not been for Rick James and DeBarge, Motown would've had to be forced to file for bankruptcy. As explained in Diana's E! True Hollywood Story profile, Motown was swallowing in a sea of red ink by 1983. To make matters worse for the label, Marvin Gaye had the biggest international hit of his career with "Sexual Healing" and his album had broke ground for a smoother funk/techno sound that later created new jack swing and Michael Jackson's Thriller was selling like hot cakes.

    Meanwhile, Motown tried to revamp the Temptations with the 1982 reunion with Eddie and David and we all know how that turned out. The Rick James duet helped them find new R&B and dance fans but many tuned the entire album out because Rick was only on one track.

    Jermaine Jackson had "Let Me Tickle Your Fancy" (the collaboration with DEVO) but it stopped short of reaching the top ten because Motown's promotional skills were falling apart.

    Teena Marie had left Motown in 1982 and later sued them to get out of her contract when they tried to tell her she had more albums to put out. She created the Brockert Initiative and she was free to sign with Epic Records. Switch, the act that some say preceded self-contained bands like Tony, Toni, Tone and Mint Condition was kicked out of Motown after Bobby and Tommy DeBarge abruptly left the band to produce their younger siblings, DeBarge.

    I think of all the songs released on Motown in 1982, only Charlene's "Never Been to Me", Stevie's "That Girl" and the Dazz Band's "Let's Whip It" were top ten hits, a downgrade from a label that at one point had at least ten or more top ten records alone in 1965.

    Rick James had released Throwin' Down but it wasn't as much an immediate success as Street Songs was and he was still riding high on that. Motown was not having it well in 1982-83.

    So Berry doing Motown 25 was a financial move to stabilize the company and give it new energy, hence the title: "Yesterday, today and forever". It was a calculating move: Motown didn't form until 1959. For goodness knows, why have a 25th anniversary when Motown was founded in January of '59?

    It was smart on his part to do this. So it's easy to see why non-Motown acts made the show (Adam Ant, Linda Ronstadt, etc.). In retrospect, yeah, Mary Wells and Martha Reeves deserved more time but they didn't get it. The Marvelettes (the stars of EARLY Motown) were the only group that was never asked (not counting the Contours; no casual music listener knew they were a Motown act until after Dirty Dancing). None of the Funk Brothers were asked (wasn't just Jamerson). But the public didn't know that, they saw the stars in front of them. It would be silly to ask why didn't they include them? "It's business".

    The one artist who rejoined his old Motown buddies that took advantage of Berry's gamble was Michael Joe Jackson. Marvin, upon hearing that MJ was gonna do Billie Jean, was steaming that he couldn't convince anyone to let him do Sexual Healing (which was then a controversial record so that may have played a part in why he couldn't do it; nonetheless, he decided to perform "What's Going On" so it was a good choice on his part). Remember, also, that the big highlight was supposed to be the reunion of some little group from the Brewster Projects and they made headlines about the drama.

    BUT by the time it aired on May 16th, no one was thinking of the group from the Brewster Projects, all eyes were on that kid from Gary, Indiana.

    And one wonders why I said Michael helped Motown that night indirectly?!
    Last edited by midnightman; 10-12-2018 at 03:30 AM.

  44. #94
    well said midnight

    it's amazing how blinded some people on there get with sentimentality. they easily forget that this is business and that decisions are made nearly 100% around profit and driving revenue. Anyone who thinks Suzanne or Berry put on this production for the warm fuzzies of hanging with their good ole friends and reminiscing in an idiot.

    sure we'd have loved to see the marvelettes on here and i do agree it was a shame they weren't even invited. But since when had motown ever (for right or wrong) cared about that group??? if nothing else, at least motown is consistent.

    the fans often get too wrapped up in the dream and the myth of the motown family. that sentiment might have existed between the artists during the early days and into the mid 60s. but don't fool yourself to think the "family sentiment" ever was allowed to cloud berry's judgement.

  45. #95

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I know you meant 1983.

    And if anything, the Big Chill did more wonders for MARVIN (and the Temptations) than Motown itself...

    In fact, of the "legends" that performed that night, only Marvin and Michael had the biggest hits of the nation at the time. Diana who? Mary who? Spinners who? Martha who? LOL

    Also, going back to Big Chill, I just checked the soundtrack listing. I see two of Marvin, two of the Tempts, one Marvelettes tune, two Miracles tunes, one Four Tops tune and one Martha & the Vandellas tune.

    GUESS WHICH ACT WAS MISSING FROM THE SOUNDTRACK...

    ANYWAYS... yeah, people are getting their timelines mixed up, I know some of y'all were there and you're getting old but you're not senile, guys, are you?

    Like Motown 25 was taped in EARLY '83. Had it not been for Rick James and DeBarge, Motown would've had to be forced to file for bankruptcy. As explained in Diana's E! True Hollywood Story profile, Motown was swallowing in a sea of red ink by 1983. To make matters worse for the label, Marvin Gaye had the biggest international hit of his career with "Sexual Healing" and his album had broke ground for a smoother funk/techno sound that later created new jack swing and Michael Jackson's Thriller was selling like hot cakes.

    Meanwhile, Motown tried to revamp the Temptations with the 1982 reunion with Eddie and David and we all know how that turned out. The Rick James duet helped them find new R&B and dance fans but many tuned the entire album out because Rick was only on one track.

    Jermaine Jackson had "Let Me Tickle Your Fancy" (the collaboration with DEVO) but it stopped short of reaching the top ten because Motown's promotional skills were falling apart.

    Teena Marie had left Motown in 1982 and later sued them to get out of her contract when they tried to tell her she had more albums to put out. She created the Brockert Initiative and she was free to sign with Epic Records. Switch, the act that some say preceded self-contained bands like Tony, Toni, Tone and Mint Condition was kicked out of Motown after Bobby and Tommy DeBarge abruptly left the band to produce their younger siblings, DeBarge.

    I think of all the songs released on Motown in 1982, only Charlene's "Never Been to Me", Stevie's "That Girl" and the Dazz Band's "Let's Whip It" were top ten hits, a downgrade from a label that at one point had at least ten or more top ten records alone in 1965.

    Rick James had released Throwin' Down but it wasn't as much an immediate success as Street Songs was and he was still riding high on that. Motown was not having it well in 1982-83.

    So Berry doing Motown 25 was a financial move to stabilize the company and give it new energy, hence the title: "Yesterday, today and forever". It was a calculating move: Motown didn't form until 1959. For goodness knows, why have a 25th anniversary when Motown was founded in January of '59?

    It was smart on his part to do this. So it's easy to see why non-Motown acts made the show (Adam Ant, Linda Ronstadt, etc.). In retrospect, yeah, Mary Wells and Martha Reeves deserved more time but they didn't get it. The Marvelettes (the stars of EARLY Motown) were the only group that was never asked (not counting the Contours; no casual music listener knew they were a Motown act until after Dirty Dancing). None of the Funk Brothers were asked (wasn't just Jamerson). But the public didn't know that, they saw the stars in front of them. It would be silly to ask why didn't they include them? "It's business".

    The one artist who rejoined his old Motown buddies that took advantage of Berry's gamble was Michael Joe Jackson. Marvin, upon hearing that MJ was gonna do Billie Jean, was steaming that he couldn't convince anyone to let him do Sexual Healing (which was then a controversial record so that may have played a part in why he couldn't do it; nonetheless, he decided to perform "What's Going On" so it was a good choice on his part). Remember, also, that the big highlight was supposed to be the reunion of some little group from the Brewster Projects and they made headlines about the drama.

    BUT by the time it aired on May 16th, no one was thinking of the group from the Brewster Projects, all eyes were on that kid from Gary, Indiana.

    And one wonders why I said Michael helped Motown that night indirectly?!

    I did my dear thanks for pointing that that out Im gonna go back an edit to put in the right date.

  46. #96
    The Funk Brothers should have been there, spotlighted and honored.

    (Gladys Horton should also have been on stage with Martha Reeves, Mary Wells and Jr. Walker, singing Postman).
    I absolutely agree that Motown 25 was purely about promotion and business. I'll have to watch it again (not a totally pleasurable prospect) in case there was even a precious few seconds of recognition of the Funk Brothers. That James Jamerson had to buy a ticket is still beyond belief. Postman was as iconic as Heat Wave, My Guy and Shotgun and also merited a few seconds.

  47. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Truth be told, Mr. Gordy was livid with her that night. He even barred her from attending the after party across the street from the theater at a shopping mall. LOL!
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Please provide a credible link to Mr Gordy barring Diane Ross from attending the party.
    Yes, that statement surprised me too. Marv stated it as fact, not opinion. I have read a lot of Motown books and never heard of Berry barring Diana from the after party – or any party. I even did a search, but could not find any info. I am curious to know if it is true and would love it if Marv replied to your request, but Marv is omnipotent here and does not have to back up the statements that he posts as facts. So don't expect a repy

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Yes, that statement surprised me too. Marv stated it as fact, not opinion. I have read a lot of Motown books and never heard of Berry barring Diana from the after party – or any party. I even did a search, but could not find any info. I am curious to know if it is true and would love it if Marv replied to your request, but Marv is omnipotent here and does not have to back up the statements that he posts as facts. So don't expect a repy
    Oh Im not Milven. Many people have asked him for years to provide credible links to many things hes posted like the tall tale about Diana Ross losing all her money to Bernie Madoff. Not one link was ever sent and if you serach google NOTHING comes up. But hey, its all part of his fantasy to to trash the legacy of Miss Diana Ross which is going to impossible given the honors and awards shes picked up over the decades.

    To name a few:

    Presidential Medal of Freedom
    2016

    Kennedy Center Honors
    2007

    Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award
    2012

    Honorary César
    1976

    American Music Award for Favorite Pop/Rock Album
    1974 · Lady Sings the Blues

    Golden Globe Award for Best New Star of the Year – Actress
    1973 · Lady Sings the Blues

    BET Lifetime Achievement Award
    2007

    American Music Award for Favorite Soul/R&B Female Artist
    1983, 1981, 1975


    Special Tony Award
    1977

    American Music Award for Favorite Soul/R&B Single
    1981 · Upside Down

    Soul Train Music Award for Heritage Award – Career Achievement
    1995

    NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Actress in a Motion Picture
    1972 · Lady Sings the Blues


    World Music Legend Award for Outstanding Contribution To The Music Industry
    1996

    TV Land Television's Greatest Music Moment Award
    2006 · Diana Ross Live from Central Park


    NME Award for World Female Singer
    1974, 1973, 1972, ...

    American Music Award for Lifetime Achievement Award
    2017





    Last edited by Roberta75; 10-12-2018 at 12:23 PM.

  49. #99

  50. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Yes, that statement surprised me too. Marv stated it as fact, not opinion. I have read a lot of Motown books and never heard of Berry barring Diana from the after party – or any party. I even did a search, but could not find any info. I am curious to know if it is true and would love it if Marv replied to your request, but Marv is omnipotent here and does not have to back up the statements that he posts as facts. So don't expect a repy
    It wasn’t Diana that barred but mary. The one he thinks is without fault or blemish 🙄

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