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  1. #1
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    Ralph & johnny owns the name new edition...great interview with rbrm


  2. #2
    I have to make time for this full interview, but early thoughts: Ralph and Johnny foul as hell. Johnny especially. I had already lost some respect for him a couple years back and he's just not doing himself any favors with me going forward. Dick move by both of them.

  3. #3
    So does this mean that Ralph Trasvant and Johnny Gill will recruit new singers to fill out the group "New Edition"?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I have to make time for this full interview, but early thoughts: Ralph and Johnny foul as hell. Johnny especially. I had already lost some respect for him a couple years back and he's just not doing himself any favors with me going forward. Dick move by both of them.
    Yeah, that's a dick move by them and you know it was done out of spite. Makes me wonder why, though.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Yeah, that's a dick move by them and you know it was done out of spite. Makes me wonder why, though.
    Easy. They think that they are better than the other members of the group. They see themselves as the "singers" in the group. It is the same old story.........

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Easy. They think that they are better than the other members of the group. They see themselves as the "singers" in the group. It is the same old story.........
    I thought the exact same thing. They probably see themselves as "the voices" and as such they can just recruit any 3 guys and call them New Edition, and do so without legal hassles over the name.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by lockhartgary View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. They probably see themselves as "the voices" and as such they can just recruit any 3 guys and call them New Edition, and do so without legal hassles over the name.
    Guess what else Lockhartgary? Ralph and Johnny will be able to keep the lionshare of the money when that happens. They are going to recruit "new members" or they would not have wanted the name legally. They cannot prevent Ricky, Bobby, Ronnie and Mike from receiving royalties from their past work with New Edition.

    This all disappoints me, even though I've seen this happen many, many times with groups over the years. Marty Balin just died this week and he and Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Starship and Starship with through this. EnVogue went through it and don't get me started on the Motown groups.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Guess what else Lockhartgary? Ralph and Johnny will be able to keep the lionshare of the money when that happens. They are going to recruit "new members" or they would not have wanted the name legally. They cannot prevent Ricky, Bobby, Ronnie and Mike from receiving royalties from their past work with New Edition.

    This all disappoints me, even though I've seen this happen many, many times with groups over the years. Marty Balin just died this week and he and Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Starship and Starship with through this. EnVogue went through it and don't get me started on the Motown groups.
    Good point, Marv. One of my favorite singers is Clyde McPhatter. During, his Dominoes days, he, along with the other members of the Dominoes not named Billy Ward, were given a salary while Ward and his partner kept the lion's share of the group's earnings. Because of fines and other deductions, the salary was not much. After forming the Drifters, Clyde ended up wit the lion's share of the earnings! And once George Treadwell got control things went from bad to worse.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lockhartgary View Post
    I thought the exact same thing. They probably see themselves as "the voices" and as such they can just recruit any 3 guys and call them New Edition, and do so without legal hassles over the name.
    I'll throw jealousy in with ego. Johnny had a few hits but I don't think he had any blockbuster albums. And Ralph was always an underwhelming solo artist. In the meantime, the members they left behind became Bell Biv DeVoe and were one of the hottest acts for several years. And Bobby had one of the best albums of the '80s and was huge on tour. I submit that in addition to Ralph and Johnny stiffing their brothers for the name and loot, they also wanted to stick them for having better careers after New Edition than they did. So trifling.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lockhartgary View Post
    Good point, Marv. One of my favorite singers is Clyde McPhatter. During, his Dominoes days, he, along with the other members of the Dominoes not named Billy Ward, were given a salary while Ward and his partner kept the lion's share of the group's earnings. Because of fines and other deductions, the salary was not much. After forming the Drifters, Clyde ended up wit the lion's share of the earnings! And once George Treadwell got control things went from bad to worse.
    Clyde McPhatter was one of my favorites too. I always hated how he ended up. The drinking didn't help him at all! Now when George Treadwell got involved it was all about the MONEY.......the music (although great) was secondary to him. He replaced the whole group of Drifters with the Crowns!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I'll throw jealousy in with ego. Johnny had a few hits but I don't think he had any blockbuster albums. And Ralph was always an underwhelming solo artist. In the meantime, the members they left behind became Bell Biv DeVoe and were one of the hottest acts for several years. And Bobby had one of the best albums of the '80s and was huge on tour. I submit that in addition to Ralph and Johnny stiffing their brothers for the name and loot, they also wanted to stick them for having better careers after New Edition than they did. So trifling.
    What probably disgusts me most is that Johnny Gill is not even an original member! He is not even from Boston! Ralph Tresvant is being a complete asshole to do his boys like this! They started off with absolutely NOTHING....zilch! They made it together and now the rest of them can no longer call themselves, "New Edition" which is who they are!

    There is going to be a backlash, I promise. Just watch.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I'll throw jealousy in with ego. Johnny had a few hits but I don't think he had any blockbuster albums. And Ralph was always an underwhelming solo artist. In the meantime, the members they left behind became Bell Biv DeVoe and were one of the hottest acts for several years. And Bobby had one of the best albums of the '80s and was huge on tour. I submit that in addition to Ralph and Johnny stiffing their brothers for the name and loot, they also wanted to stick them for having better careers after New Edition than they did. So trifling.
    I don't know if I buy this Jerry. If so, it took Ralph an awful long time to let his jealousy manifest itself. NE reunited a million times since any of them last had a non-NE hit and there hasn't been much of a hint of the kind of animosity that would drive someone to pull a dirty move such as this. As far as their respective solo careers went, BBD is only slightly ahead of the pack. Their first album went 4x platinum and the 2nd album went gold; Johnny's big Motown debut went 2x plat and followed that with two more gold albums; and Ralph's first solo album went 1x plat. BBD had six top 10 r&b singles (2 #1s) and 2 pop top 10 singles; Johnny had 4 top 10 r&b singles after NE (3 #1s) and 2 pop top 10 singles; Ralph had 4 top 10 r&b singles (1 #1) and 1 top 10 pop single. And we know what Bobby did. So it's not like any of them were really dusting each other in the race. The one thing that might set BBD apart from Johnny and Ralph is that BBD might have been more popular with pop audiences than Johnny and Ralph.

    But I echo your last sentiment: so trifling.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I don't know if I buy this Jerry. If so, it took Ralph an awful long time to let his jealousy manifest itself. NE reunited a million times since any of them last had a non-NE hit and there hasn't been much of a hint of the kind of animosity that would drive someone to pull a dirty move such as this. As far as their respective solo careers went, BBD is only slightly ahead of the pack. Their first album went 4x platinum and the 2nd album went gold; Johnny's big Motown debut went 2x plat and followed that with two more gold albums; and Ralph's first solo album went 1x plat. BBD had six top 10 r&b singles (2 #1s) and 2 pop top 10 singles; Johnny had 4 top 10 r&b singles after NE (3 #1s) and 2 pop top 10 singles; Ralph had 4 top 10 r&b singles (1 #1) and 1 top 10 pop single. And we know what Bobby did. So it's not like any of them were really dusting each other in the race. The one thing that might set BBD apart from Johnny and Ralph is that BBD might have been more popular with pop audiences than Johnny and Ralph.

    But I echo your last sentiment: so trifling.
    Great points, all. I was just speculating. It is such a cold and spiteful maneuver, I just can't believe it was all because of greed. And the fact that they did it TOGETHER makes it seem like they were trying to send a message to the others. Maybe they didn't want them touring as N.E. without them being able to call the shots.

    I'll have to Google it to find out, but didn't they jointly sue Maurice Starr to get ownership of the name? I wonder what exactly they got from the settlement?

  14. #14
    This is an excerpt from the decision:
    ...I accordingly conclude that plaintiffs have acquired legal rights to the mark New Edition through their prior use in intrastate commerce. Even if defendants' use had been the first in interstate commerce, they used the name simultaneously in Massachusetts, where plaintiffs had already appropriated it. And while it is well recognized that a junior user may occasionally acquire superior rights to a mark it used in good faith and in a different market, see 2 J. McCarthy, Trademarks and Unfair Competition, 26:3 at 289-292 (2d ed. 1984), and cases cited therein, that was obviously not the case here. On this basis alone, plaintiffs own the mark.

    II.

    Even assuming there was no prior appropriation by the plaintiffs, however, they nonetheless own the mark under the controlling standard of law. Defendants correctly state that in the case of joint endeavors, where prior ownership by one of several claimants cannot be established, the legal task is to determine which party "controls or determines the nature and quality of the goods which have been marketed under the mark in question." See In re Polar Music International AB,714 F.2d 1567 (Fed.Cir.1983). The difficulty in performing that task in this case, however, is in deciding what the "goods" are. The parties have given the court little guidance in how to go about making that determination. Rather, each side baldly asserts the result that leads most logically to a decision in its favor. Defendants claim the goods are the recordings; plaintiffs claim they are the entertainment services of Bell, Bivins, Brown, DeVoe and Tresvant.

    ...
    With respect to the plaintiffs themselves, as noted elsewhere in this opinion, they existed and performed as New Edition long before defendants released "Candy Girl." They had already used songs of the Jackson Five. Their membership has been essentially constant;[19] they were not, as defendants contend, replaceable actors in a play written by Maurice Starr. (Compare Rick v. Buchansky, supra, where the four-person "Vito and the Salutations" had had twenty-two different members, including ten different "Vitos," to its one manager, Rick who was found to own the name.) They were individual persons that the public came to know as such. While defendants would have us believe this is only the result of their successful promoting, I find that it was personality, not marketing, that led to the public's intimacy with plaintiffs. The "magic" that sold New Edition, and which "New Edition" has come to signify, is these five young men.

    Based on the totality of the evidence, I conclude that the quality which the mark New Edition identified was first and foremost the five plaintiffs with their distinctive personalities and style as performers. The "goods" therefore are the entertainment services they provide. They and no one else controlled the quality of those services. They own the mark.
    This all makes me wonder how the name was available for them to procure. Of course, I'm no lawyer but the original five members were awarded the name in the lawsuit. Do those rights expire.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    This is an excerpt from the decision:

    This all makes me wonder how the name was available for them to procure. Of course, I'm no lawyer but the original five members were awarded the name in the lawsuit. Do those rights expire.
    Great question. It would be nice to have somebody break the situation down in laymen's terms. It would seem like from the previous decision the name belongs to the five original members and I would think that would be a lifetime decision, so how in the world did this Ralph and Johnny thing happen?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    This is an excerpt from the decision:

    This all makes me wonder how the name was available for them to procure. Of course, I'm no lawyer but the original five members were awarded the name in the lawsuit. Do those rights expire.
    It sounds like the original ownership of the name by the 5 original members lapsed. Since it was not used with any regularity, Ralph and Johnny just scooped it up. That is just my speculation.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    It sounds like the original ownership of the name by the 5 original members lapsed. Since it was not used with any regularity, Ralph and Johnny just scooped it up. That is just my speculation.
    I'm confused on all of this. The Time recorded an album as the Original 7ven a few years ago and put "the band formerly known as the Time" on the cover. How Prince didn't blow a gasket at the description is beyond me. Now, I believe they're once again known as the Time. Did they get that right after Prince died? Why wouldn't his family hold the rights to the name? This must be a very complicated area of law.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I'm confused on all of this. The Time recorded an album as the Original 7ven a few years ago and put "the band formerly known as the Time" on the cover. How Prince didn't blow a gasket at the description is beyond me. Now, I believe they're once again known as the Time. Did they get that right after Prince died? Why wouldn't his family hold the rights to the name? This must be a very complicated area of law.
    Prince may have blown a gasket, but there wasn't a damned thing he could do about it. They were "Formerly known as the Time" once he took the name from them! He use to do stuff like that to them early in their career. Preventing them from playing certain gigs.
    Last edited by marv2; 10-05-2018 at 09:49 PM.

  19. #19
    Yeah, I heard that he pulled them from opening for him at Madison Square Garden and the Inglewood Forum because they regularly put on such great shows, the crowd saw his performance as a letdown. I'll never forget hearing Donnie Simpson interview Jessie Johnson on Video Soul when Johnson told about how Jam & Lewis got fired after a blizzard trapped them in Atlanta when they produced the SOS Band's "On The Rise" LP. They missed a gig and he was probably looking for a reason to fire them. Apparently, Morris Day disappeared for weeks after it happened and nobody had any idea where he went. Prince was headstrong.

    But getting back to the thread, I think Mark Adam Wood pulled the same business over on Lakeside, legally taking the naming rights. Guess it's a trick that never gets old.

  20. #20
    Something's a bit wrong with the story: Ralph and Johnny have been owners of the NE name since 2012 and BBD was still performing with them up until '17. So why wait until now to talk about it? I don't know, something is fishy about that story but one thing is consistent, BBD clearly hates Johnny's guts now.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Yeah, I heard that he pulled them from opening for him at Madison Square Garden and the Inglewood Forum because they regularly put on such great shows, the crowd saw his performance as a letdown. I'll never forget hearing Donnie Simpson interview Jessie Johnson on Video Soul when Johnson told about how Jam & Lewis got fired after a blizzard trapped them in Atlanta when they produced the SOS Band's "On The Rise" LP. They missed a gig and he was probably looking for a reason to fire them. Apparently, Morris Day disappeared for weeks after it happened and nobody had any idea where he went. Prince was headstrong.

    But getting back to the thread, I think Mark Adam Wood pulled the same business over on Lakeside, legally taking the naming rights. Guess it's a trick that never gets old.
    Jerry I remember that happening to Lakeside. It is trick, a lowdown, dirty trick to pull on your bandmates.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Something's a bit wrong with the story: Ralph and Johnny have been owners of the NE name since 2012 and BBD was still performing with them up until '17. So why wait until now to talk about it? I don't know, something is fishy about that story but one thing is consistent, BBD clearly hates Johnny's guts now.
    Maybe BBD did not know or realize that Ralph and Johnny had gone and trademarked the name?

  23. #23
    Didn't William Hart of the Delfonics trademark the Delfonics name?

  24. #24
    ^ Yes, he did. That's why Wilbert had to add his name so his brother wouldn't sue lol (though I don't know if he performs anymore; I know "Poogie" still does though).

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Maybe BBD did not know or realize that Ralph and Johnny had gone and trademarked the name?
    Three grown a$$ men not being aware of anything that late? LOL
    And Michael was supposed to be the businessman of the group. How did he not see that coming? I don't buy their story lmfao

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by lockhartgary View Post
    Didn't William Hart of the Delfonics trademark the Delfonics name?
    I can't remember which one of the brothers did, but I do remember there being two "Delfonics" groups out at the same time like what happened to the Dramatics and Contours.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Three grown a$$ men not being aware of anything that late? LOL
    And Michael was supposed to be the businessman of the group. How did he not see that coming? I don't buy their story lmfao
    Didn't you see the word "MAYBE" in my post? It was used to denote that it was not FACT. Geez..........

  28. #28
    Another sad case: WAR's name was/is trademarked by manager Jerry Goldstein and Far Out productions. Four former members of WAR sued for the rights to the name but lost. Lonnie Jordan remained with Goldstein and has a group called WAR, with him being the only original member. The four former members who sued (Howard Scott, Lee Oskar, B. B. Dickerson and Harold Brown) now go by the name of Lowrider Band.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by lockhartgary View Post
    Another sad case: WAR's name was/is trademarked by manager Jerry Goldstein and Far Out productions. Four former members of WAR sued for the rights to the name but lost. Lonnie Jordan remained with Goldstein and has a group called WAR, with him being the only original member. The four former members who sued (Howard Scott, Lee Oskar, B. B. Dickerson and Harold Brown) now go by the name of Lowrider Band.
    This might be the saddest of them. Honestly, if you didn't know and you paid to see WAR and you had two friends who went to see the Lowrider Band on the same night, you'd come away perhaps entertained but unimpressed by what is essentially a cover band but they'd come back with what is probably a much better experience after seeing the real thing.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Didn't you see the word "MAYBE" in my post? It was used to denote that it was not FACT. Geez..........
    Marvin, you need to calm your butt down. You're always insinuating that when people respond to you like this that they didn't fully read what you wrote. I was just stating. Now YOU calm down lol

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by lockhartgary View Post
    Another sad case: WAR's name was/is trademarked by manager Jerry Goldstein and Far Out productions. Four former members of WAR sued for the rights to the name but lost. Lonnie Jordan remained with Goldstein and has a group called WAR, with him being the only original member. The four former members who sued (Howard Scott, Lee Oskar, B. B. Dickerson and Harold Brown) now go by the name of Lowrider Band.
    This is why you have to watch who you become friends/band mates with...that person ends up working with the enemy but the NE saga is more childish and stupid imho... until all six (or at least the ORIGINAL FIVE) get their act together, I ain't listening to them lol

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by lockhartgary View Post
    Another sad case: WAR's name was/is trademarked by manager Jerry Goldstein and Far Out productions. Four former members of WAR sued for the rights to the name but lost. Lonnie Jordan remained with Goldstein and has a group called WAR, with him being the only original member. The four former members who sued (Howard Scott, Lee Oskar, B. B. Dickerson and Harold Brown) now go by the name of Lowrider Band.
    This is all so ridiculous. The person that owns the name will not have the people with the talented that gave the name value.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    Marvin, you need to calm your butt down. You're always insinuating that when people respond to you like this that they didn't fully read what you wrote. I was just stating. Now YOU calm down lol
    Learn to read for comprehension. It's not that hard. I did it by the time I was promoted to the 3rd Grade................

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