Tammi Terrell and the Supremes

[midnightman]

I'm sorry, but Tina Turner, Mary Wilson, Tammi Terrell, etc., never did anything to be hit by the men in their lives.

I have to disagree with Arrr&Beee that she attracted abusive men or that ANY WOMAN for that matter attracts a man who's abusive [[same can be said for men who found themselves trapped in abusive relationships with women; it's rare, but it happens). It's true she came from a dysfunctional background and as a preteen had her life basically snatched from her by three boys. She also probably thought both James and David were gonna be looking out for her. Looks can be deceiving. They presented themselves to Tammi as gentlemen and almost perfect and Tammi fell for it. By the time she realized what was going on with these men, it was too late.

And besides, the last man in Tammi's life was a doctor who tried his best to take care of Tammi in her dying days. Tammi's mother obviously knew of the David Ruffin situation and made sure him and the rest of Motown - sans Marvin of course - were not allowed to pay their final respects to Tammi at her funeral. Also there were rumors that she and Sam Cooke had a fling of sorts after she had left James Brown.

Tammi was misunderstood. And wanted love. And got only fame and hurt.

[marv2]

Marv, lets go back to something you should have learned at about age 5...

It is never ok for a man to hit a woman.

See how simple that is?

Don't tell me. Tell all of those dudes that beat angelic Tammi Terrell's ass!

[Fullfillingnessfirstfinale]

IMO The Marvelettes are a group with an earthy soul sound, they were not pop-oriented like the Supremes, so I think no one of them [[Ann,Wanda,Gladys) were the perfect lead singer for the Supremes. The Supremes are a Berry Gordy Project, to decide that Diana became the lead singer not Flo is the evidence, to create the Supremes as Pop oriented vocal group ! Ann, Wanda and Gladys have really good voices and I agree Ann would be the best lead singer for the group to find a new suceccfully start in the seventies.

Saundra Edwards sounds to me too soulful, so I think Rita Wrigth could be a candiate or Barbara Randolph, maybe Barbara McNair too.

[RanRan79]

Tammi was beautiful and talented and i didn't know her,but some women are attracted to abusive men[i've known some who were]it's sad and a bit sick to me but such is life.

It is a sickness and it is sad, and far too many women fail to get help for it, and far too many women are failed by society [[family and society at large), in large part because of the attitude expressed in this thread. There have been women who have been sexually assaulted multiple times in their lives. It would be sick to wonder what they did to make men want to rape and/or molest them, right? Of course it would. And that's as sick as wondering what she did to be beaten so many times. But both questions are questions men and women find themselves asking. My thought is that it's more scary for people to ask why the men find it okay to rape and beat the women. It might cause some uncomfortable feelings within themselves, so it's easier to put the fault on the victim.

[RanRan79]

Marv, lets go back to something you should have learned at about age 5...

It is never ok for a man to hit a woman.

See how simple that is?

It's never okay for anybody to hit anybody, and my advice to females has been the same for years: if you don't want that man putting his hands on you, you keep your hands to yourself. I've seen this crap before, where women get violent with men because they know the man subscribes to the motto than it is never okay for him to hit a woman, and she takes advantage of that. I remember being in school, there were girls who would jump up in some boy's face over the smallest thing but would go into hiding the minute they had beef with some girl. It's kind of like the bully that picks on folks he/she knows won't fight back vs picking on kids who'll get in that ass. Some women are like that.

However, that's a different situation than a woman being physically abused. Women like Tammi are beaten for being flirty, for talking back, for being "disobedient", for the friends she tries to keep, for having an opinion, for her family, for her job, for the children, FOR SIMPLY BEING. Any man that finds fault with the woman over this and not the man is a piece of trash that is suspect in regards to his own treatment of women. If a man can't handle his emotions when it comes to his woman he should beat his own ass, not hers.

[RanRan79]

I have to disagree with Arrr&Beee that she attracted abusive men or that ANY WOMAN for that matter attracts a man who's abusive

No this thing is real. There are definitely people out there who have a pattern of bad relationships and there's usually something in their past that triggers it. When a woman finds herself in multiple abusive relationships, it's usually not a coincidence. And usually when you find a man who hits his lady, she usually isn't the only one. The patterns in our lives say a whole lot.

[RanRan79]

The Supremes are a Berry Gordy Project, to decide that Diana became the lead singer not Flo is the evidence, to create the Supremes as Pop oriented vocal group !

The Supremes created themselves and they still would've done all the same standards and jazzy stuff even if Gordy had made Flo the lead singer, because from the very beginning they were the type of group who enjoyed doing all kinds of music. But singles wise, the Supremes were always a R&B/pop group, just like the Marvelettes, so I don't know why that would cancel out any particular Marvelette.

[sup_fan]

they were definitely a bit more sophisticated than other girl groups and they also definitely were predisposed to singing a full range of songs and styles

the hyper-glamour image they developed into is probably more of a Diana influence. she herself was obsessed with fashion and glamour. had she not been in the group [[aside from many, many changes to history) i think they might not have become quite so over the top with sequins, boas, massive wigs, etc. I think that was really Diana's personality come to life. and fortunately during the DRATS period, M and C really complimented the look and enjoyed it. when the glitz was starting back in 66, Flo wasn't as in to it. and we all know Jean wasn't either

[midnightman]

Diana was influenced by the likes of Eartha Kitt and Josephine Baker, women who were very HIGH on the glamour image. She was a fashion designer and she helped to come up with the costumes for the group. The Supremes were definitely SELF-MADE!

[midnightman]

No this thing is real. There are definitely people out there who have a pattern of bad relationships and there's usually something in their past that triggers it. When a woman finds herself in multiple abusive relationships, it's usually not a coincidence. And usually when you find a man who hits his lady, she usually isn't the only one. The patterns in our lives say a whole lot.

That's been the narrative for years but I don't think most seek men who are abusive. Men who turn out to be abusive usually are the ones who put up a front as this tweet explains:



Like do you think men like Ike Turner, James Brown, David Ruffin, Bobby Brown or even Marvin [[who admitted to being abusive) would show who they were on jump street? No. Because at first, they appear charming and not like boys/men they grew up around. It's their initial behavior and charm that gets them to be with them. It's only later that the abusive side shows. What it is is that happens is once the abuse starts, the woman thinks "you know what? Maybe he just is having issues emotionally. He won't be like this." And most of the time the abuse would subside and he goes back being the lovely dovey person that they were first introduced to. Then it comes back up again. For some women, the abuse gets worse because the man is full of rage for no reason. For some women, they do have support systems but some refuse because they try to convince their supporters [[and themselves) that everything is fine and then gets to the point they're defending the man's abusive actions with things like "he's bipolar, his childhood was messed up, etc."

Luckily for Tammi, once the abuse got REAL HORRIFIC, she LEFT. After the James Brown incident where he roughed her up real bad backstage after a show in 1964, she got Gene Chandler to call her mother and she and her sister picked up Tammi and returned to Philadelphia. Tammi ended her relationship with David RIGHT AFTER he hit her with the motorcycle helmet. She probably not only had the support system but the connections to get away.

Some other women either push them away [[Whitney Houston) or literally have no other place to go [[Tina Turner for so many years). There may be a part that is used to abusive men and they found themselves falling for someone who is abusive but it's not right away. It may be true that some women don't mind being with the "bad boy" because it gives them an edge until that edge turns against them and they realize "this is too much, I gotta get out" and this is after they have had children with the man.

The man makes promises he won't do it again but then he keeps on doing it and then it gets worse. Some women eventually find an escape but others don't. It's an unfortunate reality. That's why it took Tina Turner years to understand what love really meant. It wasn't that she was attracted to abuse, she was seeking love and found hate. It took her until recently to finally find love. When she was near death, she realized the current man [[husband) in her life really loved her. She just admitted this to Oprah.

Back to Tammi Terrell though, like I said, she left her relationships with the men after their abusive sides got too much for them and before she died, she did finally find a stable boyfriend who wasn't abusive and who really loved her. Which makes her death even more tragic.

[marv2]

they were definitely a bit more sophisticated than other girl groups and they also definitely were predisposed to singing a full range of songs and styles

the hyper-glamour image they developed into is probably more of a Diana influence. she herself was obsessed with fashion and glamour. had she not been in the group [[aside from many, many changes to history) i think they might not have become quite so over the top with sequins, boas, massive wigs, etc. I think that was really Diana's personality come to life. and fortunately during the DRATS period, M and C really complimented the look and enjoyed it. when the glitz was starting back in 66, Flo wasn't as in to it. and we all know Jean wasn't either

First of all, it was Mary Wilson who was the clothes horse of that group. She was influenced at an early age by her aunt I.V. [[a corruption of the name Ivy). She would sneak and try on her aunt's wardrobe. Diana or Diane Ross liked clothes too. She won "Best Dressed Girl" at Cass Tech High School her senior year................wearing clothes she borrowed from Mary Wilson!

The Supremes were not a "Girl Group" per se. They get categorized as being one just because they were an all female vocal ensemble. You'll never hear the Temptations or the Beatles referred to as "Boy Groups". The Supremes were a part of a movement. A concerted effort to crossover into the white market in an effort to support the Civil Rights struggle of the 1960s in America. Sure, they were glamorous, but the reason Motown supported that dimension of the group is for the reasons I cited. That is why they invested in Artist Development. They were determined to get into the white supper clubs like the Copa, Coconut Grove, etc, etc. They were going to get on mainstream television programs such as "The Tonight Show", "The Ed Sullivan Show", "The Steve Allen Show" etc,etc. We, in America all watched these programs in the 1960s. They garnered a much larger audience then than programs do today for the mere fact that there were only three major television networks in those days. Cable has since fragmented viewing along individual interests lines today. Again the glamor image of the Supremes is credited to Diana Ross, but it was actually started with Mary Wilson's lust for clothes etc LOL! The changing of hairstyles and wigs for each performance was her idea. The heavy makeup was something both Mary and Diane valued to the extreme. Just look at them from the point they split up from the Supremes and how each presented themselves publicly every since for clues to what I am saying.

[marv2]

Diana was influenced by the likes of Eartha Kitt and Josephine Baker, women who were very HIGH on the glamour image. She was a fashion designer and she helped to come up with the costumes for the group. The Supremes were definitely SELF-MADE!

That is a nice story but that is not true! Try closer to home. Diane has said that she was influenced in terms of dressing by the local prostitutes near her block in Detroit. She'd go and watch them and how the men reacted to each one of them. That is how she came to start wearing the heavy mascera [[sp?) as a teenager. Her father use to question her about it. The Supremes were self-made to an extent. They were also a product of their environment which we all are to some extent.

[blackguy69]

That is a nice story but that is not true! Try closer to home. Diane has said that she was influenced in terms of dressing by the local prostitutes near her block in Detroit. She'd go and watch them and how the men reacted to each one of them. That is how she came to start wearing the heavy mascera [[sp?) as a teenager. Her father use to question her about it. The Supremes were self-made to an extent. They were also a product of their environment which we all are to some extent.

marv I’m calling bs on that story, prove what you just said. You should already know you’re going to be attacked for that comment

[marv2]

marv I’m calling bs on that story, prove what you just said. You should already know you’re going to be attacked for that comment

I have Zero you know what's to give about anyone attacking me for telling the truth. How do
I know what I said is true? It came right out of Diana Ross' mouth! Go find it! You should know by now that I am going to tell the truth....the real truth to bust up some of the myths and outright lies these guys post here.

[midnightman]

He can't prove it because it's not true. But again, he defends Mary's abusive ex. But he's gonna tell us he's a fan of Mary Wilson. A real fan of Mary Wilson won't support an abusive a-hole like Pedro. But again, that's not what this topic is about and we've allowed ourselves to have another thread derailed because someone wants to blame Tammi Terrell for getting hit in the head with a motorcycle helmet over a topic that was originally about did she or did she not get an invite to join America's most successful all-female vocal group in music history.

[marv2]

He can't prove it because it's not true. But again, he defends Mary's abusive ex. But he's gonna tell us he's a fan of Mary Wilson. A real fan of Mary Wilson won't support an abusive a-hole like Pedro. But again, that's not what this topic is about and we've allowed ourselves to have another thread derailed because someone wants to blame Tammi Terrell for getting hit in the head with a motorcycle helmet over a topic that was originally about did she or did she not get an invite to join America's most successful all-female vocal group in music history.

There is nothing you said in the above posting that makes sense, is accurate or true! We have already exhausted everything around why Tammi Terrell was not seriously considered as a potential member of the Supremes. So maybe Ralph should freeze this thread.

[midnightman]

Anyways, here's one reason Tammi wouldn't have really fit with the Supremes:



Like honestly, can you imagine Mary and Cindy singing behind this? Lol

[sup_fan]

First of all, it was Mary Wilson who was the clothes horse of that group. She was influenced at an early age by her aunt I.V. [[a corruption of the name Ivy). She would sneak and try on her aunt's wardrobe. Diana or Diane Ross liked clothes too. She won "Best Dressed Girl" at Cass Tech High School her senior year................wearing clothes she borrowed from Mary Wilson!

The Supremes were not a "Girl Group" per se. They get categorized as being one just because they were an all female vocal ensemble. You'll never hear the Temptations or the Beatles referred to as "Boy Groups". The Supremes were a part of a movement. A concerted effort to crossover into the white market in an effort to support the Civil Rights struggle of the 1960s in America. Sure, they were glamorous, but the reason Motown supported that dimension of the group is for the reasons I cited. That is why they invested in Artist Development. They were determined to get into the white supper clubs like the Copa, Coconut Grove, etc, etc. They were going to get on mainstream television programs such as "The Tonight Show", "The Ed Sullivan Show", "The Steve Allen Show" etc,etc. We, in America all watched these programs in the 1960s. They garnered a much larger audience then than programs do today for the mere fact that there were only three major television networks in those days. Cable has since fragmented viewing along individual interests lines today. Again the glamor image of the Supremes is credited to Diana Ross, but it was actually started with Mary Wilson's lust for clothes etc LOL! The changing of hairstyles and wigs for each performance was her idea. The heavy makeup was something both Mary and Diane valued to the extreme. Just look at them from the point they split up from the Supremes and how each presented themselves publicly every since for clues to what I am saying.

Marv - when the supremes/primettes started they were absolutely a "girl group" and not simply because all of the members had 2 X chromosomes lol. they completely patterned themselves off of the top girl groups of the day. their early material and performances were very "girl group" but they did quickly start to separate themselves from this genre with their sophistication of looks, sound, harmonies, song choice, etc. by 63, they were sort of in a weird middle ground. with the explosion of WDOLG and they continued to break away from the mold. and you're right, by 65 and the Copa era, they were firmly in a category unto themselves

and your points about mary are correct in that she was always into fashion and style. But diana actually studied fashion, understood the construction of clothing, the use of material, etc. not to say mary did or didn't - who knows. she's never said that she ever read or studied the topic but maybe she did in spare time. it's certainly been quoted that she and diana together often sewed the early outfits.

in the later 60s, i would assume Diana was more responsible for the look of the group, only because she was pretty clearly the "leader" according to motown. most of the overall direction of the group was coming from berry/diana so i'd assume the decisions around costumes, gowns and all were hers too.

[midnightman]

Yeah the late '60s were definitely Diana's alone. I think she worked with Bob Mackie on many of the gowns the group wore. I could be wrong but I know she got involved with Mackie at some point, if not during the later years with the Supremes, definitely after.

Mary was involved in some form or fashion so they did share that in common. That's why Mary today is passionate about the gowns.

[RanRan79]

Anyways, here's one reason Tammi wouldn't have really fit with the Supremes:



Like honestly, can you imagine Mary and Cindy singing behind this? Lol

Yes I could hear Mary and Cindy singing on this, but it wouldn't have the edge the girls on the song have. But Tammi- had she become a Supreme- would've been taking over for Diana Ross in 1970. This type of song wouldn't have been in consideration. Bad example my friend.

[RanRan79]

Marv - when the supremes/primettes started they were absolutely a "girl group" and not simply because all of the members had 2 X chromosomes lol. they completely patterned themselves off of the top girl groups of the day. their early material and performances were very "girl group" but they did quickly start to separate themselves from this genre with their sophistication of looks, sound, harmonies, song choice, etc. by 63, they were sort of in a weird middle ground. with the explosion of WDOLG and they continued to break away from the mold. and you're right, by 65 and the Copa era, they were firmly in a category unto themselves

and your points about mary are correct in that she was always into fashion and style. But diana actually studied fashion, understood the construction of clothing, the use of material, etc. not to say mary did or didn't - who knows. she's never said that she ever read or studied the topic but maybe she did in spare time. it's certainly been quoted that she and diana together often sewed the early outfits.

in the later 60s, i would assume Diana was more responsible for the look of the group, only because she was pretty clearly the "leader" according to motown. most of the overall direction of the group was coming from berry/diana so i'd assume the decisions around costumes, gowns and all were hers too.

Whenever someone tries to give one of the Supremes credit for something, someone always has to come in and take it away. Everybody knows Diana was the one who put her stamp of fashion on the group, which would be obvious considering that was the vocation she was planning on falling back on if the music thing didn't work out. Yeah, Mary was involved in helping to make costumes and such. She says in her first book that she helped, but also admitted that Diana did more detailing on the dresses she worked on, as well as Mary had to go back and fix crooked seams. That tells me that Diana always had the eye. But someone can't stand to see Diana get credit for anything.

Just like the ones who get bent out of shape when Mary is given credit for keeping the Supremes' legacy alive. Or the folks who insist on whenever Flo is given credit for naming the Supremes they have to come in talking about some damn Janie Bradford, a woman who suggested the name while Florence was the one who ultimately chose the name Supremes and thus becomes the person who named them.

Some of ya'll get so stuck on your favorites that it makes you crazy when it comes to the other Supremes. It's ridiculous.

[midnightman]

Yes I could hear Mary and Cindy singing on this, but it wouldn't have the edge the girls on the song have. But Tammi- had she become a Supreme- would've been taking over for Diana Ross in 1970. This type of song wouldn't have been in consideration. Bad example my friend.

I meant for that time in the late '60s, had Diana left. Not 1970.