Diana Ross and the Supremes Los Angeles Fourm August 16, 1968

[blackguy69]

just saw this.

[RanRan79]

Thanks BG. You'd think in an arena they would drop this kind of song, but you'd be wrong. I wonder what the typical concert goer thought when they had to sit through these Vegasy numbers in that setting.

[blackguy69]

I always thought when they did arena shows they opened with You Keep Me Hangin On

[RanRan79]

That would make sense, but I guess not, at least for this show.

[danman869]

I’m very confused by the labeling of this as from “August 16, 1968” because the group hadn’t even started taping the “TCB” special on that date. It was about two weeks later that they began working on recording vocals for the pre-recorded tracks and the actual special—and then the special didn’t air until December 1968. It seems so unlikely that this would be in their repertoire [[opening number or otherwise) on this date or any time before December. The audience [[Vegas schmaltz or not) would’ve been like, “what the heck IS this?!”

I don’t have any of the books nearby to check tour dates, but could it be possible that this is from August 16, 1969?

[blackguy69]

I just copied what the video said but it would make sense if it was 1969

[RanRan79]

Yeah Dan, you might be right that it was 1969. Can't always take the descriptions and titles of these videos as accurate.

[sup_fan]

The confusion is that they played the forum in both aug 68 and 69. At least according the data I’ve tracked. Using the TCB opening would have been from 69

[TheMotownManiac]

just saw this.

This 68? I know they used those gowns a lot in ‘68 but I must doubt the year as even if they had recorded TCB already, I hardly tjink they’d use it as an opening before the popularity of the special. I think this is aug ‘69 with the j5 opening for them.

[TheMotownManiac]

Thanks BG. You'd think in an arena they would drop this kind of song, but you'd be wrong. I wonder what the typical concert goer thought when they had to sit through these Vegasy numbers in that setting.

TCB opened all their shows in 1969. Extra hits were thrown in concert shows VS nightclub, but all the vegas style routines were used in concert format as well.

[marybrewster]

What's curious is if this is 1969, those dresses sure look like the ones they wore for "Reflections" here in 1967:

https://youtu.be/2uwSVDOWh4Y

Would they be wearing 2 year old gowns?

[blackguy69]

What's curious is if this is 1969, those dresses sure look like the ones they wore for "Reflections" here in 1967:

https://youtu.be/2uwSVDOWh4Y

Would they be wearing 2 year old gowns?

yes they would. How many did Flo wear that lasted to 68-69

[marybrewster]

I can only think of a few sets of gowns from DMF [['67) that continued onto DMC. All were gone by '68.

[reese]

What's curious is if this is 1969, those dresses sure look like the ones they wore for "Reflections" here in 1967:

https://youtu.be/2uwSVDOWh4Y

Would they be wearing 2 year old gowns?

I've seen a photo of Jean, Mary, and Lynda wearing these dresses.

[marybrewster]

I've seen a photo of Jean, Mary, and Lynda wearing these dresses.

Right. Me too. My point is that when Diana was still with the Supremes they were getting new gowns constantly. It seems a bit odd they'd be wearing 1967 dresses in 1969.

JML and every grouping after sadly had to pick through the archives and wear things that were 6, 7, 8 years old.

[blackguy69]

this gown made it to 69

[bradsupremes]

This video is definitely from 1968 as they wore their own personal clothing/street clothes at their August 1969 Forum show.

As far the gowns go, they stopped wearing the "Chandelier" gowns in late 1968, possibly early 1969. They reappeared in 1970 but were extensively rebeaded. There are over a dozen or so of gowns from the DMF [[66-67) period that transitioned over to DMC. They wore those until Michael Travis stepped in and created new sets. They carried several of the DMF gowns into 1968 and 1969. In fact, there are a few photos going around of DMC wearing the white & black gowns from the Andrews Sisters medley on the Sammy Davis Jr. Show and those gowns were either late 1965 or early 1966.

[sup_fan]

Right. Me too. My point is that when Diana was still with the Supremes they were getting new gowns constantly. It seems a bit odd they'd be wearing 1967 dresses in 1969.

JML and every grouping after sadly had to pick through the archives and wear things that were 6, 7, 8 years old.

yes and no. the girls certain continued to wear the classic gowns throughout the 70s and often they were worn in more high profile appearances, such as tv shows. so it's a little deceiving

During the DRATS era, there was a dozens or so Flo era gowns used for when Cindy came on board. they then had about 26 or so original outfits created during the DRATS era. during the Jean era there was about 22.

The biggest volume of gowns are from the DMF era. between WDOLG becoming a bit hit and Flo's departure then had over 50. this includes the 12 that Cindy also wore.

and no i don't have a bunch of made up names lolololol. well actually i do have made up names so i know which one i'm talking about but i don't try to assume that is some sort of bogus "official" name lololol. this is just a tab in an excel spreadsheet where i've also listed out their yearly itineraries.


btw Lynda has only 4 gowns made for her tenure. 20 were made for the Scherrie groupings. of which about 9 were made for Susaye. and there are certainly probably more gowns that we don't know about yet.

[blackguy69]

I gotta ask which 9 sets of gown were specifically made for Susaye. I can only think of 3 . The 2 they wore on soul train in 77 and the blue one they wore in Europe

[bradsupremes]

and no i don't have a bunch of made up names lolololol. well actually i do have made up names so i know which one i'm talking about but i don't try to assume that is some sort of bogus "official" name lololol. this is just a tab in an excel spreadsheet where i've also listed out their yearly itineraries.

There's a certain fan out there pulling a Donald Trump and trying to con fans into believing all the gowns had names. They didn't. I mean, seriously, can you imagine the ladies sitting around in a dressing room in 1969 arguing over which gowns they are going to wear...

Cindy: "I think we should wear the Shimmering Sweethearts tonight."

Mary: "Yes, Cindy, I agree. We should wear the Shimmering Sweethearts."

Diana: "No! We are not wearing those! We are wearing the Wheat Barley's because that's what I want to wear and because I said so!"

Names? Give me a break.

[sup_fan]

There's a certain fan out there pulling a Donald Trump and trying to con fans into believing all the gowns had names. They didn't. I mean, seriously, can you imagine the ladies sitting around in a dressing room in 1969 arguing over which gowns they are going to wear...

Cindy: "I think we should wear the Shimmering Sweethearts tonight."

Mary: "Yes, Cindy, I agree. We should wear the Shimmering Sweethearts."

Diana: "No! We are not wearing those! We are wearing the Wheat Barley's because that's what I want to wear and because I said so!"

Names? Give me a break.

hahaha oh i know. fun on follow on FB as he does post tons of rare pics. but i completely agree that some dress Diana Ross made with Mary and Mrs Ross using a Hudson store pattern most certainly was not named "avocado dreams" or some nonsense.

i'd assume they would rotate 6 - 8 gowns for a specific leg of touring. probably they'd select a variety of colors and styles so that they'd vary their shows. Perhaps once the big name designers came on board and they were coming up with 20 sketches for the girls to react to, they might have labelled them in order to help illustrate the imagery. but yeah, Diana wasn't using no product naming convention lolol

[bradsupremes]

"Avocado Dreams" LOL!

Mrs. Ross: "Oh girls! What a beautiful pattern you got there!"

Mary: "Diane bought it after her shift ended at Hudson's. They're going to be our dresses for the upcoming gig at the Graystone."

Diana: "Yes, mama. Mary and I are going to make them. We're going to call them Avocado Dreams!"

Don't be fooled into thinking any of those photos he posts are his either. He either 1.) stole them 2.) got them from the internet 3.) posted them from another fan.

[sup_fan]

I gotta ask which 9 sets of gown were specifically made for Susaye. I can only think of 3 . The 2 they wore on soul train in 77 and the blue one they wore in Europe

here's what i have listed. anyone know of any others, please let me know

1. the orange dresses with capes from Soul Train [[cape was used in the High Energy videos on Let Yourself Go) Attachment 14640
2. the brown striped gowns from Soul train and HE videos. if you look closely [[especially in the high quality video versions of Come into my Life on Soul train) you'll notice the stripes are different for each girl. Mary's are blues, Scherrie's are pink and Susayes are orange. Attachment 14641
3. tuxedos - used on Udo Live You're My Driving Wheel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCGtWdp0RI

4. blue fringe gowns - used on udo live and in Mary's gown exhibit. they look sort of a mess on the tv clip because the quality is low. but actually they're beautiful in person. blue sequin top with blue and lavender fringe. on an old post here Susaye chimed in about loving these gowns. she said they fringe was fantastic and really fun Attachment 14642

5. mega dress - the infamous all-in-one gown used in Vegas for the Caesar opening. been told it's flame red. i've never seen this one and no known pics floating around.

6. pink caftans - there are a few pics of MSS in robes of varying shades of pic with beading and roping going around the neck. i've heard that these were really cover ups. that they'd enter the stage with them on, maybe do a number and then remove to show another gown underneath. Attachment 14643

7. pink raggedy things lol - this is from Mary's gown exhibit. but the story is that they were in development right at the time of the breakup and therefore never used. i think they're dreadful lolol Attachment 14644

8. grey jersey gowns - ok this is speculation based on a certain Supremes fan on FB that claims to know all regarding the gowns. he says another set of gowns was in dev when the group broke up. three different shade. but either never completed or never worn. no known pics.

9. red You Are The Heart of Me gowns - there's a very brief clip of them singing this [[on Merv i believe) in red outfits. they're different red outfits from the ones used on Soul Train [[in early 76 right when Susaye joined) and also in the photo shoot used for High Energy and some other frequently used pics. i'm not sure if these are personal outfits of the girls or not. never seen them anywhere else but they have silver and red skull caps [[as opposed to the all silver ones they used with the tuxes) so i'm guessing these were "official" outfits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3A8mFHvbn4

[sup_fan]

"Avocado Dreams" LOL!

Mrs. Ross: "Oh girls! What a beautiful pattern you got there!"

Mary: "Diane bought it after her shift ended at Hudson's. They're going to be our dresses for the upcoming gig at the Graystone."

Diana: "Yes, mama. Mary and I are going to make them. We're going to call them Avocado Dreams!"

Don't be fooled into thinking any of those photos he posts are his either. He either 1.) stole them 2.) got them from the internet 3.) posted them from another fan.

well my feelings regarding photos is that unless you are a professional photographer and took the image, thereby owning the rights to the image, all pics are free game for fans. none of us are using the images in a for-profit manner and are simply sharing imagery of the girls. the more the better i say. i'd love to see thousands of pics of the girls live on stage. i've been loving the alt poses from famous shoots, etc. it's all about sharing the wealth with fellow fans IMO

and brad - i just listed a whole bunch of sup gowns but i know you've personally spent time with Mary on them. please edit or correct. i'll admit i'm a freak and have made a list of the gowns in excel for my personal knowledge lolol. i find this a fascinating aspect of the group and love learning more about it. i've "named" them and described them just in order to keep things straight

as for "his" naming, i've caught him making the crap up because early on i didn't realize he was a misfit and so was thrilled that he had "knowledge." so i started adding that to my excel sheet. but then i'd come across all these conflict and where things didn't correspond. he labeled those hideous mauve pantsuits from Sullivan Living In Shame as one nonsensical label and then later had another. i think he literally called them Rhubarb and Cream!!! lololol but i believe those outfits were made by the Sullivan costume department and therefore NOT outfits the girls had in their wardrobe for ongoing use. so who the F would have named them and why would they have needed a name

just so entertaining lolol

[sup_fan]

"Avocado Dreams" LOL!

Mrs. Ross: "Oh girls! What a beautiful pattern you got there!"

Mary: "Diane bought it after her shift ended at Hudson's. They're going to be our dresses for the upcoming gig at the Graystone."

Diana: "Yes, mama. Mary and I are going to make them. We're going to call them Avocado Dreams!"

Don't be fooled into thinking any of those photos he posts are his either. He either 1.) stole them 2.) got them from the internet 3.) posted them from another fan.

Attachment 14645

here's a rare pic of the infamous Avocado Dreams. that naming convention has been verified with Mrs. Eugenia Abernathy who worked at the fabric store called "Stitch In Time" located in downtown Detroit back in the early 60s. she has photographic evidence that both the bolt of fabric AND the pattern packing where labeled accordingly and so the girls, being keen to inventory all of their clothing, assigned the completed Avocado Dreams gown # 1509.


note - Avocado Dreams should not be confused with another early Sup gown from the green family. below is the Broccoli Tiered Cake outfit which is different from the pale blue 3-tiered dresses called Ocean Spray Fantasies worn on Ed Sullivan lolol

Attachment 14646

Attachment 14647

[blackguy69]

here's what i have listed. anyone know of any others, please let me know

1. the orange dresses with capes from Soul Train [[cape was used in the High Energy videos on Let Yourself Go) Attachment 14640
2. the brown striped gowns from Soul train and HE videos. if you look closely [[especially in the high quality video versions of Come into my Life on Soul train) you'll notice the stripes are different for each girl. Mary's are blues, Scherrie's are pink and Susayes are orange. Attachment 14641
3. tuxedos - used on Udo Live You're My Driving Wheel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TCGtWdp0RI

4. blue fringe gowns - used on udo live and in Mary's gown exhibit. they look sort of a mess on the tv clip because the quality is low. but actually they're beautiful in person. blue sequin top with blue and lavender fringe. on an old post here Susaye chimed in about loving these gowns. she said they fringe was fantastic and really fun Attachment 14642

5. mega dress - the infamous all-in-one gown used in Vegas for the Caesar opening. been told it's flame red. i've never seen this one and no known pics floating around.

6. pink caftans - there are a few pics of MSS in robes of varying shades of pic with beading and roping going around the neck. i've heard that these were really cover ups. that they'd enter the stage with them on, maybe do a number and then remove to show another gown underneath. Attachment 14643

7. pink raggedy things lol - this is from Mary's gown exhibit. but the story is that they were in development right at the time of the breakup and therefore never used. i think they're dreadful lolol Attachment 14644

8. grey jersey gowns - ok this is speculation based on a certain Supremes fan on FB that claims to know all regarding the gowns. he says another set of gowns was in dev when the group broke up. three different shade. but either never completed or never worn. no known pics.

9. red You Are The Heart of Me gowns - there's a very brief clip of them singing this [[on Merv i believe) in red outfits. they're different red outfits from the ones used on Soul Train [[in early 76 right when Susaye joined) and also in the photo shoot used for High Energy and some other frequently used pics. i'm not sure if these are personal outfits of the girls or not. never seen them anywhere else but they have silver and red skull caps [[as opposed to the all silver ones they used with the tuxes) so i'm guessing these were "official" outfits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3A8mFHvbn4

ive seen that pink dress before. It was marked being made in 66. But those red outfits from merv I wouldn’t quite call them a actual set being that they are 3 different outfits that just happened to be red similar to the ones they wore on Soul Train in 76

[sup_fan]

Yeah in the exhibit the pink gowns are called Sullivan’s Delight and said they were worn on the show. Which isn’t true.

The guy on FB that discusses the gowns said they were part of the sets made in 77.

[blackguy69]

Yeah in the exhibit the pink gowns are called Sullivan’s Delight and said they were worn on the show. Which isn’t true.

The guy on FB that discusses the gowns said they were part of the sets made in 77.

It doesn’t look like it was made in the 70’s

[blackguy69]

The more I think about it those pink dresses look more like the rehearsal dresses they were supposed to wear on Sullivan when they there Nov 1967

[luke]

Maybe I’m missing something but what difference does it make if someone names them?

[blackguy69]

from 1967

[sup_fan]

Look at the neck line of the pink ones. Not the same as the fairy tale ones

[blackguy69]

I did not say there the same dress.

[marybrewster]

Maybe I’m missing something but what difference does it make if someone names them?

I think the difference lies in naming them versus passing those names off as "official" names.

[bradsupremes]

Maybe I’m missing something but what difference does it make if someone names them?

He's trying to pass the names he gave them as what they were officially called by the ladies. They didn't have names for them. I mean how many people go around naming their clothes. They didn't call them the "Chevrons" or "Cornflowers" but rather the pink ones with the feathers on the bottom.