Diana in the 90s - what went wrong

[sup_fan]

an updated post in the Diana Ross Project was just made, reviewing Take Me Higher. describes the album as an amazing success for the singer, although US charts were very weak

https://dianarossproject.wordpress.c...e-higher-1995/


So what went wrong? obviously Workin' Overtime hurt her reputation but that was years earlier. Both Force and Take feature strong tunes and excellent vocals. But was she following trends instead of making them?

Around [[or shortly after) Take, Madonna and Cher really pushed into new electronic territory with Ray of Light and Believe. While Ray received both commercial and critical approval and Believe was more just commercial approval, it was something new and different. i remember liking the Diana albums well enough but to young listeners, it just didn't seem like much more than a knock off.

and then you also had the Whitney, janet and Mariah material around this time.

So what went wrong and what should they have done?

[RanRan79]

I think that the years in the 80s after 'Eaten Alive" made some noise and then the release of "Overtime" allowed the public to largely move on. Pop radio didn't get behind "WO" but R&B radio did. As I said in a previous thread months ago, I grew up in Chicagoland and the R&B stations played "Working Overtime" like crazy. Her singles after that and up until "Take Me Higher" couldn't compete with anything that was being played on radio. Diana, like several instances in the 80s, did not keep her finger on the pulse of what was moving the public. She was still a big concert draw, still a hugely beloved star of the highest magnitude, but all of that means nothing if your music isn't capturing the public's attention.

As good as "Take Me Higher" was, IMO the sound was a little dated. Had she done that song in the early 90s instead of the mid 90s, it probably would've been a big hit. By the time Diana started doing music that I think could compete at least with the stuff her peers were releasing, it was probably too late for people to care. Diana Ross had the goods to take her hit making abilities into the early 2000s like Cher, but I just don't think she's ever had the ability to know what she should be doing and who she should be doing it with. Queen Ree's last significant hit was "A Rose Is Still a Rose", and she got that because she recognized that hooking up with Lauryn Hill, who was hot in every possible way at the time, was a great career move. I doubt if Ross would've ever said yes to that kind of opportunity.

[RanRan79]

In between Force and TMH, she only released a Christmas album. I would've loved something produced by Babyface. When you're looking to maintain your hit status, you go where the hits are. Diana doesn't ever seem to record with the hit makers until maybe their hit days have passed.

[RanRan79]

And for the record, because "someone" will undoubtedly bring it up, I don't believe Mary's book had any bearing on Diana's lack of success. If anything, Mary's book just lent legitimacy to the rumors flying around about Ross since forever. No one was turning down a great song because of what Diana might have done or said to any Supreme ages ago. Her musical selections sucked, plain and simple.

[thommg]

Queen Ree's last significant hit was "A Rose Is Still a Rose", and she got that because she recognized that hooking up with Lauryn Hill, who was hot in every possible way at the time, was a great career move. I doubt if Ross would've ever said yes to that kind of opportunity.

I really think Aretha hooked up with those younger producers because of Clive Davis. He encouraged her and made those connections happen. Diana really didn't have anyone doing that for her. Certainly there wasn't anyone at Motown that offered her that kind of support and, I believe, she really needed that - both through her RCA years and her Motown return. She just didn't seem to have anyone who could realize her concepts and make them into reality.

[sup_fan]

i know some might find this a rather minor detail but i think the packaging of her albums also hurt her image. Force was very cool - the straightened hair and gold lame dress, then the painting over the top. But Working and Take Me were odd. the boots and tattered jeans were definitely not her look. And Take Me higher was just odd. very artsy and therefore not really relevant to much of the record buying public. those weird pics of her in thrift store finds, sitting in a wash tub on a gravel road in AL??!?! WTF is that? maybe if the music was odd and punk, sure.

[sup_fan]

I really think Aretha hooked up with those younger producers because of Clive Davis. He encouraged her and made those connections happen. Diana really didn't have anyone doing that for her. Certainly there wasn't anyone at Motown that offered her that kind of support and, I believe, she really needed that - both through her RCA years and her Motown return. She just didn't seem to have anyone who could realize her concepts and make them into reality.

excellent point - by this time she was not actively out in the "scene" like she was in the late 70s and early 80s. she wasn't actively going out an immersing herself in the current trends and material and therefore was a bit out of touch. and she didn't have management that was really doing that for her either.

i wonder who originated the idea of working with Chic in 1980? talk about masterful!

although it's post 90s, i do think the Everyday is a New Day was more "current" than Take or Force.

[sup_fan]

haha - too many thoughts here and after i hit "submit" another pops in my head

what if WO was just never even developed and you moved all of the records forward by about 2 years. So Force would have been a late 80s album, Take me would have been early 90s and Everyday would have been late 90s?

[lucky2012]

haha - too many thoughts here and after i hit "submit" another pops in my head

what if WO was just never even developed and you moved all of the records forward by about 2 years. So Force would have been a late 80s album, Take me would have been early 90s and Everyday would have been late 90s?

Lol. I've often thought about what if WO never existed! Moving the subsequent albums forward would have been ideal artistically and possibly commercially. TMH and EDIAND would have definitely been more "current". Great post, sup_fan.

[reese]

In between Force and TMH, she only released a Christmas album. I would've loved something produced by Babyface. When you're looking to maintain your hit status, you go where the hits are. Diana doesn't ever seem to record with the hit makers until maybe their hit days have passed.

I was thinking the same thing.

She works with the Gibbs years after their big success with Barbra and Dionne.

She works with Narada Michael Walden years after his big successes with Whitney and Aretha.

She works with Luther [[for one song) years after his productions for Aretha, Dionne, and Cheryl Lynn.

There is a pattern there.

That said, by the time of MISSING YOU in 1985, Diana had been a consistent presence on the charts for over twenty years. That is quite a long time to hold on to the pop audience. Of her peers, only Aretha managed a significant longer span, for reasons RanRan wrote about above. Dionne and Gladys had occasional hits through the early 90s. Tina and Patti started their own hit strings in the 80s and 90s, but they had never had consistent pop success before then. So even though they were in Diana's age group, they were new artists in a sense.

[sup_fan]

in addition to that, seems like Motown provided little proper support either. In a similar thread about her RCA period, i'm surprised that the labels had as much control about what was released and when and how. Clearly Diana ordered WO single as the lead from that project and that was a huge mistake. but the promotional mess Force seems to be motown's fault.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I was dj ing in LGBT nightclubs on Long Island including the legendary BunkHouse in Sayville, and the single that should have gotten a US release and push, the high NRG re mix of I Will Survive, drove people nuts in a good way..there was a music video with Ru Paul in it but I don't remember a real push for this as a single,at least not the UK 12 inch re mix..This should be her next re mix project..the song never dies

[sup_fan]

i think her 90s remix project was lackluster. the mixes were ok but nothing overly exciting. what might have been more interesting would be to incorporate some new vocals. either add new diana vocals along with her original or have her record completely new vocals along with new, re-imagined tracks to some of her biggest hits.

And yes, Motown really dropped the ball w I Will Survive. there was a huge resurgence in the mid 90s towards disco. had that song been officially released in the US, it would have charted

According to George Soloman's noted in Randy's book, there's an alt version of IWS that is more in keeping with the original production. and the version used in the movie In and Out is also different from the album version.

[khansperac]

I disagree about the remix project. I was clubbing then and it was great. The remix of "I'm coming out" was a banger. Still hot till this day. At the time I didn't know if she had went back to the studio and re-recorded some parts of that song. I later found out that they had used the unreleased Chic mix of the song. "Someday we'll be together was also great, and if I'm not mistaken also charted. "The Boss" remake was also very good. All three were played in one club or another. The only songs I didn't like were "you're gonna love it" and "chain reaction". The DJ's that remixed were the cream of the crop and totally what was current and happening at the time. '''

[khansperac]

Take me higher- the song, didn't sound dated to me. As mentioned in a previous post by me, I was clubbing then and this song was a big hit in the clubs- going all the way to number one. I was glad that Diana returned to Dance music. As for the album, it ranks as one her her best.

[RanRan79]

I really think Aretha hooked up with those younger producers because of Clive Davis. He encouraged her and made those connections happen. Diana really didn't have anyone doing that for her. Certainly there wasn't anyone at Motown that offered her that kind of support and, I believe, she really needed that - both through her RCA years and her Motown return. She just didn't seem to have anyone who could realize her concepts and make them into reality.

While I do think Clive may have had his hand in it, Aretha has always been into the current sound, even in recent years. So Clive may have set it up or suggested it, but the Queen wouldn't have done it if she didn't feel it. I also agree that Diana didn't have a guiding influence in her post 1st Motown run, but she needed one because without it Diana just didn't have what it took to keep her finger on the pulse of the music industry.

[RanRan79]

i know some might find this a rather minor detail but i think the packaging of her albums also hurt her image. Force was very cool - the straightened hair and gold lame dress, then the painting over the top. But Working and Take Me were odd. the boots and tattered jeans were definitely not her look. And Take Me higher was just odd. very artsy and therefore not really relevant to much of the record buying public. those weird pics of her in thrift store finds, sitting in a wash tub on a gravel road in AL??!?! WTF is that? maybe if the music was odd and punk, sure.

I disagree. I think the public just wasn't feeling the material. WO had the spirit of the diana 80 and Swept Away album covers, which proved that the public didn't necessarily have to have a glammed up Diana Ross to be interested. But those two albums were successful because the public was interested in the material. Beyond the title track, nobody was interested in the crap on WO regardless of the album cover. TMH was just too late.

[RanRan79]

although it's post 90s, i do think the Everyday is a New Day was more "current" than Take or Force.

I agree, but by that time the public had gotten used to lackluster Diana material, in addition to there wasn't a ton of publicity for it stateside. She did the Double Platinum movie with Brandy but even that wasn't enough to drum up support. [[I think at the time I only watched half of that movie myself. Diana should've been doing features, not made for TV.) EDIAND was damn good but it really was too little too late.

[RanRan79]

I was thinking the same thing.

She works with the Gibbs years after their big success with Barbra and Dionne.

She works with Narada Michael Walden years after his big successes with Whitney and Aretha.

She works with Luther [[for one song) years after his productions for Aretha, Dionne, and Cheryl Lynn.

There is a pattern there.

That said, by the time of MISSING YOU in 1985, Diana had been a consistent presence on the charts for over twenty years. That is quite a long time to hold on to the pop audience. Of her peers, only Aretha managed a significant longer span, for reasons RanRan wrote about above. Dionne and Gladys had occasional hits through the early 90s. Tina and Patti started their own hit strings in the 80s and 90s, but they had never had consistent pop success before then. So even though they were in Diana's age group, they were new artists in a sense.

Tina and Patti had the opportunity to reinvent themselves from the past, so I agree. In a weird way they were like new artists. There was no reinventing Diana Ross, but she could have rolled with the times and consistently created hits. You roll out her producer mistakes very well. I wonder why she was so allergic to using current hitmakers?

[RanRan79]

Take me higher- the song, didn't sound dated to me. As mentioned in a previous post by me, I was clubbing then and this song was a big hit in the clubs- going all the way to number one. I was glad that Diana returned to Dance music. As for the album, it ranks as one her her best.

It was dated for the general public's perspective. The clubs are always going to play clubbers, but by the time Diana released TMH, radio wasn't playing much of that type of music. She should've gotten in on that when people like C&C Music Factory and Robin S were having big radio hits with club cuts. By late 1995 radio had long moved on. In fact Sup Fan is probably right, had TMH been released in the early 90s and EDIAND the mid 90s, we might be having a different conversation about Diana Ross' career in the 90s.

[dickiemint]

In the UK Force Behind the Power was a Top Ten LP and had 5 top 40 hits off it, When you tell me you love me was only kept off number 1 by Queen's Rerelease of Bohimian Rapsodey after Freddie Mercury death. Then came One Woman collection which was UK Number 1 album , Take me Hire , Gone and I will Survive were top 40 hits followed by Not over You Yet another top 10 hit and rerecording WYTMYLM with Irish boy band Westlife was Christmas number2 Miss Ross was still hitting big in the UK in the 90's

[sup_fan]

I agree, but by that time the public had gotten used to lackluster Diana material, in addition to there wasn't a ton of publicity for it stateside. She did the Double Platinum movie with Brandy but even that wasn't enough to drum up support. [[I think at the time I only watched half of that movie myself. Diana should've been doing features, not made for TV.) EDIAND was damn good but it really was too little too late.

the two record labels were never able to come to an agreement regarding the Diana/Brandy work. if they had and it had been released as a duet, it probably would have done significant amount to help re-establish Diana. and that could have helped salvage the EDIAND project

but apparently by this time Diana and motown were at such an impasse that odds are they barely even made an attempt to negotiate on her behalf with Brandy's label.

[sup_fan]

In the UK Force Behind the Power was a Top Ten LP and had 5 top 40 hits off it, When you tell me you love me was only kept off number 1 by Queen's Rerelease of Bohimian Rapsodey after Freddie Mercury death. Then came One Woman collection which was UK Number 1 album , Take me Hire , Gone and I will Survive were top 40 hits followed by Not over You Yet another top 10 hit and rerecording WYTMYLM with Irish boy band Westlife was Christmas number2 Miss Ross was still hitting big in the UK in the 90's

absolutely and her label there was making intelligent decisions about promotion and support. motown in the states was a hot mess.

But UK and Europe has always been more receptive to ongoing material from established artists, so long as it's of high quality. in the states, you're either current or has-been.

[sup_fan]

I disagree. I think the public just wasn't feeling the material. WO had the spirit of the diana 80 and Swept Away album covers, which proved that the public didn't necessarily have to have a glammed up Diana Ross to be interested. But those two albums were successful because the public was interested in the material. Beyond the title track, nobody was interested in the crap on WO regardless of the album cover. TMH was just too late.

album covers are just 1 part of the overall marketing material for the project. Lead singles that are hits that are then combined with a powerful marketing campaign can often make a hit out of a dud project. can't always overcompensate the rest of the album being junk but often can.

and when an album is strong AND has strong imagery/promtional material it's often magic. think of the sensational cover to 1993's Janet. that image of Janet Jackson with her modern hair style and standing topless with a man's hands reaching around her, covering her up is iconic. Think of diana 80 and that totally hip cover.

Take me Higher was a strong set. if possible that 1) if the lead single was I Will Survive and 2) better graphics and marketing support material, it might have had a different outcome

[rovereab]

In the UK, Carry On would have been the ideal follow up single to Not Over You Yet, which was a big hit here that I'm certain will have introduced Diana to a younger audience. Not releasing Carry On is a massive missed opportunity.

[reese]

album covers are just 1 part of the overall marketing material for the project. Lead singles that are hits that are then combined with a powerful marketing campaign can often make a hit out of a dud project. can't always overcompensate the rest of the album being junk but often can.

and when an album is strong AND has strong imagery/promtional material it's often magic. think of the sensational cover to 1993's Janet. that image of Janet Jackson with her modern hair style and standing topless with a man's hands reaching around her, covering her up is iconic. Think of diana 80 and that totally hip cover.

Take me Higher was a strong set. if possible that 1) if the lead single was I Will Survive and 2) better graphics and marketing support material, it might have had a different outcome

I agree that TAKE ME HIGHER was a strong set, probably Diana's strongest of the 90s. When I saw her in the summer of '95, she performed many of the songs from it, all of which I loved. That leads me to the first problem. Diana was on tour promoting the album at least a month before it was in the stores. For us diehards, that wasn't a problem. But for the casual fans who might have liked its songs in concert they couldn't run out the next day and buy the cd.

I also thought that the order of singles released was wrong. The second single, GONE, was a great ballad. But I don't think it should have been released so early. After the title track, I would have gone with IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA LOVE ME RIGHT, VOICE OF THE HEART, and then maybe GONE.

Also, I understand that I WILL SURVIVE wasn't released in the US because Chantay Savage had a version out around the same time. But after the inclusion of the song in the film IN AND OUT, as well as Diana's Super Bowl performance, not to mention the video with RuPaul, I think Motown should have given it a shot.

[Fourtopsbiggestfan]

Well this one is an absolute masterpiece. 1999 from EVERYDAY IS A NEW DAY album. SUGARFREE https://youtu.be/HEYMk3uPxdQ

[midnightman]

I don't know if it was anything that went wrong or that unlike Tina, Patti [[and to some degree, Aretha, who had Clive Davis behind her), Diana had gotten old fashioned and two, was one of those artists that didn't really have any backing to get her to the next generation as far as her music went in the U.S. though she was still able to perform to packed venues here and, like it was mentioned, got a lot of airplay on R&B charts for some of her later songs. I think she possibly suffered from not that much label support. Musically Take Me Higher was her strongest record in years and it could've helped if it got promoted more. I don't think it ever did. Motown was putting most of its promotional muscle on Boyz II Men around this time and around 1995 or 1996 went through a transition of CEOs [[going from Jheryl Busby to Andre Harrell). So that also may have a lot to do with why Diana struggled during the era where her peers were still having charted success.

[Albator]

Even with Clive Davis, Aretha didn't do that well in the eighties and latter. She is revered by singers, musicians, critics but on sales basis she is not spectacular.
4 gold records, 2 platinum in the US.


With Clive Davis behind her, Dionne has only 2 gold albums on the eighties and latter. [[Heartbreaker is not even platinum)


It's very difficult to generate sales when you'r around for so long. Tina Turner had the chance to meet Roger Davis who wasn't so busy with Olivia Newton-John and he took the opportunity to manage Tina wisely.
So you need to be talented, and to have a strong management. Some faux-pas are forever. Take Donna Summer who lost all her aura with her born again stuff and wanted to change her image from sexy disco diva to respected singer.
Among female singers from the sixties, only Barbra Streisand is able to have platinum albums after another for 50 years. Maybe it's because she is alone in her world and she have her fans and they stay with her because she delivers what they want to hear.

So, maybe Diana made a lot of mistakes while at RCA.

[PeaceNHarmony]

i know some might find this a rather minor detail but i think the packaging of her albums also hurt her image. Force was very cool - the straightened hair and gold lame dress, then the painting over the top. But Working and Take Me were odd. the boots and tattered jeans were definitely not her look. And Take Me higher was just odd. very artsy and therefore not really relevant to much of the record buying public. those weird pics of her in thrift store finds, sitting in a wash tub on a gravel road in AL??!?! WTF is that? maybe if the music was odd and punk, sure.

I LOVE the Take Me Higher photo shoot. High-concept fashion photography and Diana looked gorgeous.

[Albator]

I LOVE the Take Me Higher photo shoot. High-concept fashion photography and Diana looked gorgeous.

I like it today but back then, I thought it was agressive and too dark.

[sup_fan]

i'm not saying it isn't artistic or makes a strong statement. but it's not necessarily "ready for prime time." it's a bit too extreme and unusual IMO

[khansperac]

I found nothing extreme about it. It was black centric .

[sup_fan]

black centric? really? Attachment 14531

Attachment 14532

sitting in a galvanized metal washtub in the middle of a country gravel road is black centric?

Spread eagle in an old dress while sitting in some thrownout office chair you salvaged from the dumpster while in the middle of brick paved alley is black centric?

[Boogiedown]

Omg
Is this Diana Ross' idea of being taken higher?
Lmao!

In some worn torn office chair somebody threw out

Somebody threw out...

[sup_fan]

^lol

i definitely agree that they are more avant guarde and therefore have some considerable artistic interest. But that's not the general masses and certainly not when you're trying to draw general consumer interest to a cd via posters, ads, commercials, etc.

Look at what Janet Jackson, Mary J Blige, Mariah, TLC and others were doing.

i mean if your goal is to look like something out of Lord of the Rings, then so be it. but...

Attachment 14533

[midnightman]

Even with Clive Davis, Aretha didn't do that well in the eighties and latter. She is revered by singers, musicians, critics but on sales basis she is not spectacular.
4 gold records, 2 platinum in the US.


With Clive Davis behind her, Dionne has only 2 gold albums on the eighties and latter. [[Heartbreaker is not even platinum)


It's very difficult to generate sales when you'r around for so long. Tina Turner had the chance to meet Roger Davis who wasn't so busy with Olivia Newton-John and he took the opportunity to manage Tina wisely.
So you need to be talented, and to have a strong management. Some faux-pas are forever. Take Donna Summer who lost all her aura with her born again stuff and wanted to change her image from sexy disco diva to respected singer.
Among female singers from the sixties, only Barbra Streisand is able to have platinum albums after another for 50 years. Maybe it's because she is alone in her world and she have her fans and they stay with her because she delivers what they want to hear.

So, maybe Diana made a lot of mistakes while at RCA.

Yeah it wasn't unique that Diana was suffering since Dionne and Aretha, while still successful, weren't as massively successful as they were in their heydays, and Dionne most specifically because after the mid-80s, she had quickly become old news.

Donna Summer's career collapsed after 1984, partially due to her wanting to have more life with her family and another, Geffen Records was a total bust with her. Maybe if she had went to Warner Bros. and had the songs Cher had, she could've kept it moving in the '80s after She Works Hard for the Money.

Barbra was and always has been a unique case. She didn't have a girl group or a Motown behind her, plus she was in Broadway and films all the time. So her music releases become an event in a sense that it isn't with most legendary divas.

Tina Turner finding Roger Davies became the best thing for her career where she was able to do what was once considered "impossible" and was to tour big arenas and stadiums and sell records into the new millennium.

[khansperac]

Diana put out some of her best work in the 90’s. Great albums including “the force”, “stolen moments”, “very special season”, the hallmark cd, “take me higher”, “everyday is a new day”. I don’t necessarily think anything went wrong. The public at large just wasn’t feeling her. It happens. Things have certainly changed for the better.

[jobeterob]

Diana put out some of her best work in the 90’s. Great albums including “the force”, “stolen moments”, “very special season”, the hallmark cd, “take me higher”, “everyday is a new day”. I don’t necessarily think anything went wrong. The public at large just wasn’t feeling her. It happens. Things have certainly changed for the better.

That’s what I think

Times change; you don’t have 50 years of monster hits all the time

I think the line I’ve read is that when you factor in Diana’s work with the Supremes she is amongst the top 5 artists of all time

And you can’t even identify any other singer on 98% of the Supremes songs

[Ollie9]

No matter what kind of music Diana released beyond 85, whether it be considered sublime or dross the american public were never going to buy it in quantites that matter.... Even with a pretty picture on the cover. As has already been mentioned, throughout the 90's Diana's music continued to sell very well across europe, particulaly here in the UK.
As regards european sales i think it was a mistake to wait so long for the release of another pop album. Following the massive success of the compilation album "One Woman" Motown/EMI should have have aimed for a 94 release perhaps followed by a christmas cd a year later.
EDIAND i believe had great potential if motown had kept the remixes going. Massive shame such a quality album was abandoned.

[Nitro2015]

Tina Turner finding Roger Davies became the best thing for her career where she was able to do what was once considered "impossible" and was to tour big arenas and stadiums and sell records into the new millennium.

Yes, what went wrong in the 90's for Diana is very simple: she didn't have a great manager... and, worst, she was her own manager.

She can be a great, legendary artist, but she ain't no business/entertainment manager.

She had two boys in school in America and a husband in Europe. She was doing tours and recording often, travelling non-stop. I can't see how a woman with this hectic schedule would be able to handle all her business matters, promotional strategies, radio and media approachs etc.

It's pretty obvious she needed a manager like Roger Davies or a record mogul like Clive Davis to support her. But she wouldn't have any of that, she wanted full control of everything.

So... her recording career suffered a lot in terms of commercial performances in U.S.

But she was still able to make huge money and score hits in other territories.

[marv2]

She did not know how to keep up with the times. Her music sounded very old fashioned and without any power behind it. Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey, Mary J Blige, the Fugees with Lauryn Hill, Whitney..........those were artists putting it down in the 90s. Diana Ross was still doing Disco music.

[vgalindo]

i wonder who originated the idea of working with Chic in 1980? talk about masterful

I believe I heard Diana Ross in an interview say she went to see Chic in concert and really liked them so she approached them to do her next album.

[Nitro2015]

She did not know how to keep up with the times. Her music sounded very old fashioned and without any power behind it. Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey, Mary J Blige, the Fugees with Lauryn Hill, Whitney..........those were artists putting it down in the 90s. Diana Ross was still doing Disco music.

To some extent, this is true, but songs like "Keep It Right There", "Don't Stop", "If You're Not Gonna Love Me Right", "Sugarfree", between others, sounded very contemporary to my ears and pretty strong in the mid-late 90's. Even "Take Me Higher" seemed a great 90's dance song/single.

But, yes, Diana had an old-school image, more suited to the 70's and early 80's [[in the Take Me Higher Era she did try to modernize it and it worked really well for her but it was still old-school).

Still, I find her 90's products pretty good. With proper management, it could at least have achieved more R&B, AC and Urban AC acceptance in U.S.

[thommg]

Yes, what went wrong in the 90's for Diana is very simple: she didn't have a great manager... and, worst, she was her own manager.

I think this hits the nail on the head. It's okay to be in charge of things but you need someone to bounce ideas off of, and to help you put those ideas into action. That is what she lacked in the 90's. And say what you want about the music she recorded during that time but, aside from Working Overtime, there were many of my friends buying and playing her music and none of us considered it old fashioned.

[144man]

The thing that most went wrong for Diana Ross in the 90s was obviously missing that penalty in the 1994 World Cup

[midnightman]

I didn't know Diana managed herself during that era?

[marv2]

I didn't know Diana managed herself during that era?

If it had been anyone else........they would have been fired! LOL!!!!

[Nitro2015]

i know some might find this a rather minor detail but i think the packaging of her albums also hurt her image. Force was very cool - the straightened hair and gold lame dress, then the painting over the top. But Working and Take Me were odd. the boots and tattered jeans were definitely not her look. And Take Me higher was just odd. very artsy and therefore not really relevant to much of the record buying public. those weird pics of her in thrift store finds, sitting in a wash tub on a gravel road in AL??!?! WTF is that? maybe if the music was odd and punk, sure.

The Take Me Higher photo shoot is probably the best she ever did in her career.

She looks young, stylish and sexy as hell.

It was an image that suited the mid-90's perfectly and, for once, she didn't look "dated" as an artist.

I don't like the FBTP look/photo shoot, it looks very very dated for 1991.

[Circa 1824]

Ross could never overcome the debacle of the 1980's. Sadly, the total control that proved her downfall continues today.