Autopsy: The Last Hours of Florence Ballard on REELZ Channel-Sun 7/29/08 9PM

[midnightman]

Wrong as usual. John Lennon or Elvis Presley would be the greatest tragedy in rock history. Flo had been out of the limelight for a number of years.

Lennon, Elvis, Marvin, Michael, George Michael and Whitney could each qualify for "greatest rock tragedies" over a member of a singing group.

[midnightman]

Quite true khansperac. The recently deceased Ray Gibson, Flo's cousin, stayed with Flo a lot. He was there in early 1970 after Diana made her Farewell performance. Diana came to Detroit to see her family and walked down the street to see Flo. They embraced, Ross picked on Flo's new blonde wig and said "oh no, you really are Blondie."

They went to Flo's bedroom and talked for quite some time. Ray said Flo never said what they talked about but it was all warmth between them that day.

Now, had I done this show do you really think this would have made the final cut?

Bottom line is Diana always treated Flo as an equal. She admired that woman ever since they were kids. Did people really expect Flo to hold a grudge over PETTY KID STUFF? Because that's all that was. By the time they had left the Supremes, these two had become young women and parents dealing with lives in their own ways. I'm sure had Flo not died from the blood clot, she would be thriving right now and that was a fact. As her late sister Maxine said, "she never gave up". That's who Florence was.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Exactly correct plus you could add Jim Morrison or Kurt Cobain or Buddy Holly to that list. Flo was loved but is only referred to greatest tragedy in rock and roll history by a deranged Diane Ross basher.

Unfortunately 'yes' all around. The vultures pick Florence's bones with nary a mention of the good parts of her contributions. It's endlessly fascinating that they focus on Ballard while stepping over the corpses of other M'twners who also were released from their groups which, just coincidentally, were not lead by Diana Ross.

[marybrewster]

I do too but Mary Wilson loves to talk about Diane and the Supremes. I LOL everuytime she says "we are sisters and we love each other very much" LOL

Girl don't start! Lol.

[Roberta75]

girl don't start! Lol.

lololololololololol

[Roberta75]

Bottom line is Diana always treated Flo as an equal. She admired that woman ever since they were kids. Did people really expect Flo to hold a grudge over PETTY KID STUFF? Because that's all that was. By the time they had left the Supremes, these two had become young women and parents dealing with lives in their own ways. I'm sure had Flo not died from the blood clot, she would be thriving right now and that was a fact. As her late sister Maxine said, "she never gave up". That's who Florence was.

Preach midnightman Preach.

[thanxal]

U It's endlessly fascinating that they focus on Ballard while stepping over the corpses of other M'twners who also were released from their groups which, just coincidentally, were not lead by Diana Ross.

Now THAT's something to preach about.

[CoolKatz]

Imo, it's great to see anything Supremes [[or Motown). It might well be tabloid sensationalism, but perhaps this will garner some interest after all of these years. Once they test the waters with the Supremes it very well might open the way for a Paul Williams or a Shorty Long story.

Regarding who was the greatest rock tragedy. It's all relative. Kurt Cobain's fans will no doubt feel his story is the most tragic and the same for Elvis Presley etc. Each case is very different and should not be compared. Since this is a Supremes thread I think it's appropriate to give shine to Florence Ballard.

I feel the negativity with the Supremes imo comes from the desire to keep certain key players held in a certain light. The truth is they were all human and anything but perfect. One was no greater than or better than the next. Did some ugly things occur? I'm sure it did. Was there some nastiness and backstabbing etc. of course there was, but again these are humans. One thing to keep in mind is, those three women[[the original Supremes) are forever linked together and we would't have one without the other.

Even when it comes downto the "truth" it will always be someone's opinion, we all see things based on where we are and what we know at the time.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Now THAT's something to preach about.

As you know, they couldn't shiv two gits about Florence Ballard. It's all about assigning erroneous blame to someone they dislike.

[Roberta75]

Girl don't start! Lol.

marybrewster watch at the 2.28 mark. Miss Wilson goes into her "Diane and I are sisters, still friends and talk occasionaly" LOLOLOLOLOL

http://www.fox2detroit.com/good-day/...f-the-supremes

[Boogiedown]

Bottom line is Diana always treated Flo as an equal........

Would that include when Diana had her own separate dressing room? [[see YouTube post earlier in thread ) Sort of like separate but equal I guess?

[Mark Desjardines]

Is this program going go be aired in Canada?

[khansperac]

Would that include when Diana had her own seperate dressing room? [[see YouTube post earlier in thread ) Sort of like seperate but equal I guess?

I would have requested a separate dressing room also. Diana said in an interview on the Oprah Winfrey show that it was very difficult in the dressing room during those years, they ignored her and talked about her when her back wasn’t even turned.

[Boogiedown]

Very good. Separate ,-with good reason-, but equal as I said.

[RanRan79]

Regarding who was the greatest rock tragedy. It's all relative. Kurt Cobain's fans will no doubt feel his story is the most tragic and the same for Elvis Presley etc. Each case is very different and should not be compared. Since this is a Supremes thread I think it's appropriate to give shine to Florence Ballard.

I feel the negativity with the Supremes imo comes from the desire to keep certain key players held in a certain light. The truth is they were all human and anything but perfect. One was no greater than or better than the next. Did some ugly things occur? I'm sure it did. Was there some nastiness and backstabbing etc. of course there was, but again these are humans. One thing to keep in mind is, those three women[[the original Supremes) are forever linked together and we would't have one without the other.

Even when it comes downto the "truth" it will always be someone's opinion, we all see things based on where we are and what we know at the time.

Talk about preaching! I agree 1000 percent. It's sad to see Flo's death compared to someone else's, but not surprising. Folks in this forum will use anything in their arsenal to throw at the memory and legacies of the three original Supremes. New low.

[RanRan79]

I would have requested a separate dressing room also. Diana said in an interview on the Oprah Winfrey show that it was very difficult in the dressing room during those years, they ignored her and talked about her when her back wasn’t even turned.

Diana was a wannabe diva. She lived for any moment where she could be exalted above someone else, set apart as special. No surprise to me that she would jump at the chance to have her own dressing room. Personally, I find it hard to believe that by 1966 if Flo or Mary had been offered their own dressing room that they wouldn't have taken it. What pissed them off was that Diana got it. [[And they should have been pissed. I would've said "if she wants her own dressing room, I want my own too and if I don't get it, then she can't get it either" and then I would've proceeded to be all up in Miss Ross' dressing room every chance I got. I would change clothes in the "Supremes" dressing room and then I'd do my makeup in Miss Ross' dressing room or vice versa. She would've never had that room to herself.)

But again, this is where I blame Gordy. Diana did what young girls her age do. But he was the boss, the buck always stopped with him. Gordy was no dummy. He knew group solidarity and unity was essential to success. But he thought of Diana as indispensable and the others as throwaways. So for him it was more important to keep Diana happy and less so for the others. When Diana complains of the girls basically treating her like crap, she has herself to blame because she campaigned for all of the things that pissed them off. But ultimately Gordy was the problem. If Ross wanted her own dressing room, they all should've gotten their own. If not, then they all have to share. But I can't imagine they were playing venues at this point that couldn't provide three separate dressing rooms. Gordy was making a point and he used Ross to do it. Sadly, he is seen as the innocent in the situation by the Diana haters but everything that happened to the Supremes was his decision.

[blackguy69]

Talk about preaching! I agree 1000 percent. It's sad to see Flo's death compared to someone else's, but not surprising. Folks in this forum will use anything in their arsenal to throw at the memory and legacies of the three original Supremes. New low.

i agree with you. I’ve said this before some fans are never going to let it go. Whatever Diana and Mary have said in the past is their right. We may not like it but it was what they were feeling at that time . Both of them are human and responded according to how they felt. It isn’t right or wrong just what it is. Unless you were with them on the day to day interactions, no one here should be judging them on what they say or how they react.

[RanRan79]

i agree with you. I’ve said this before some fans are never going to let it go. Whatever Diana and Mary have said in the past is their right. We may not like it but it was what they were feeling at that time . Both of them are human and responded according to how they felt. It isn’t right or wrong just what it is. Unless you were with them on the day to day interactions, no one here should be judging them on what they say or how they react.

Agreed. It's one thing to hindsight analyze the goings on...I do it all the time as you know...but the self righteousness among the fans is ridiculous. Of course we've been down this road a million times, so it's really beating a dead horse, but believe it or not it's still amazing to see it rear it's ugly head sometimes. Some of these folks get into the whole thing too personal. As I once had to tell you know who, and it bears repeating: YOU ARE NOT MARY WILSON. WHAT HAPPENED TO MARY WILSON DID NOT HAPPEN TO YOU. [[Please replace the name of Mary Wilson with either Florence Ballard or Diana Ross, as necessary.)

[luke]

https://therecoup.com/

[Roberta75]

Agreed. It's one thing to hindsight analyze the goings on...I do it all the time as you know...but the self righteousness among the fans is ridiculous. Of course we've been down this road a million times, so it's really beating a dead horse, but believe it or not it's still amazing to see it rear it's ugly head sometimes. Some of these folks get into the whole thing too personal. As I once had to tell you know who, and it bears repeating: YOU ARE NOT MARY WILSON. WHAT HAPPENED TO MARY WILSON DID NOT HAPPEN TO YOU. [[Please replace the name of Mary Wilson with either Florence Ballard or Diana Ross, as necessary.)

Couldnt have said it better myself dear RanRan.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I would have requested a separate dressing room also. Diana said in an interview on the Oprah Winfrey show that it was very difficult in the dressing room during those years, they ignored her and talked about her when her back wasn’t even turned.

Of course, and why not? After all, additionally, who did the public hear on the radio and who did the public come to see?

[Jimi LaLumia]

wow this is on in 9 minutes.I'm going to watch it on "Reelz" which I didn't even know was a thing

[franjoy56]

The supremes when i went to see them in 66 i expected to see three supremes which i did and not one lead singer.

[Jimi LaLumia]

just peeked at the conversations above about 'dressing rooms'..lol..hysterical..literally...by the way, it's common knowledge that Gordy encouraged/engineered the division between Ross and her pals.. he wanted her solo as early as 1966, I remember reading about in 1966 as a teen.. so blame Dr. Frankenstein, but then, if you did, you'd have to not blame her..the kid... so knock yourselves out.. I'm gonna watch the Flo thing

[midnightman]

Didn't Flo once divulge on that? What's hilarious is people think they can time travel to 1966 like they were members of the Supremes. LOL like Flo already mentioned this, that wasn't new news.

[marv2]

just peeked at the conversations above about 'dressing rooms'..lol..hysterical..literally...by the way, it's common knowledge that Gordy encouraged/engineered the division between Ross and her pals.. he wanted her solo as early as 1966, I remember reading about in 1966 as a teen.. so blame Dr. Frankenstein, but then, if you did, you'd have to not blame her..the kid... so knock yourselves out.. I'm gonna watch the Flo thing

Jimi, could you tape it?

[marv2]

The supremes when i went to see them in 66 i expected to see three supremes which i did and not one lead singer.

Fran, could you tape it?

[franjoy56]

Ill look f a vhs tape

[marv2]

Ill look f a vhs tape

Ok. Thanks Fran!

[blackguy69]

Watching this as I type

[RanRan79]

Watched the autopsy show. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be. They didn't come with no crazy conspiracies, as far as giving those ideas legitimacy. Ultimately the "doctor" concludes that Florence had an undiagnosed heart condition, which I think is certainly possible. He also touched on that brown cereal like stuff mentioned in her autopsy that upset Maxine so much. Basically it's highly likely that it was nothing more than actual undigested cereal. I wish Maxine was still around to hear that as I'm sure it would've taken a load off of her mind.

The worst part of the program was the erroneous information. For one, it's stated that Florence is 5'11 several times. I don't know if that's recorded in her medical records, but I call bullcrap. I've always read that she was 5'7, and while she was always obviously taller than Diana and Mary, they weren't dwarfed beside her. So I'm not sure where 5'11 is coming from.

But the inaccuracy that boiled my blood the most was the misinformation that Florence visited Mary and the Supremes the summer before she died. Flo actually went out there in 1974. But that wasn't the worst. The narrator and the doctor kept mentioning that Flo never went onstage again and that by the time she died she didn't want to sing again. Of course we all know that roughly six months before she died Florence sang at a benefit concert for a rape victim. I went into this program understanding what I might watch but ultimately it still pissed me off that either the producers didn't exhaust their resources of information or they chose to rewrite the history...to serve what purpose, I do not know.

Saddest part of the show was Nicole recalling when her mother fell ill. Obviously the pain is still very present.

[blackguy69]

I noticed some of the inaccuracies

[longtimefan]

Watched the autopsy show. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be. They didn't come with no crazy conspiracies, as far as giving those ideas legitimacy. Ultimately the "doctor" concludes that Florence had an undiagnosed heart condition, which I think is certainly possible. He also touched on that brown cereal like stuff mentioned in her autopsy that upset Maxine so much. Basically it's highly likely that it was nothing more than actual undigested cereal. I wish Maxine was still around to hear that as I'm sure it would've taken a load off of her mind.

The worst part of the program was the erroneous information. For one, it's stated that Florence is 5'11 several times. I don't know if that's recorded in her medical records, but I call bullcrap. I've always read that she was 5'7, and while she was always obviously taller than Diana and Mary, they weren't dwarfed beside her. So I'm not sure where 5'11 is coming from.

But the inaccuracy that boiled my blood the most was the misinformation that Florence visited Mary and the Supremes the summer before she died. Flo actually went out there in 1974. But that wasn't the worst. The narrator and the doctor kept mentioning that Flo never went onstage again and that by the time she died she didn't want to sing again. Of course we all know that roughly six months before she died Florence sang at a benefit concert for a rape victim. I went into this program understanding what I might watch but ultimately it still pissed me off that either the producers didn't exhaust their resources of information or they chose to rewrite the history...to serve what purpose, I do not know.

Saddest part of the show was Nicole recalling when her mother fell ill. Obviously the pain is still very present.

Excellent review, Ranran! Tabloid, sensationalized journalism. Prayerfully, her family does not find this discomforting. I was embarrassed watching it.

[franjoy56]

Besides the date errors i thought it was well put together especially the ptsd isues from her unresolved rape . domestic abuse putting more strain on her heart. The constsnt attention on their brutal schedule pnemonia in 66 leading t hospital stay anfc5 friction w gordy and her drastic obsession with being put out of the supremes .

[PeaceNHarmony]

I've always wondered if [[or why not) any faith-based groups in the area assisted Florence. Was that addressed?

[franjoy56]

No it was not. In the 60s and 70s there was very help for t problems flo was experiencing. Reaching out to henry ford hospital came too late

[greg jones]

I think most people came to the conclusion on their own that given 1960's and early 1970's, treating heart disease issues were not as well addressed as they are today. Even open heart surgeries were in the beginning stages. So yes, I very well agree that Flo might have had a heart disorder that wasn't understood back then.

The presenter did NOT mention if heart disease ran in the Ballard family that Flo's heredity also played a part.

Plus I agree that waiting for Flo's relatives to assist Nicole probably did more damage in waiting. Things like calling 911 for help didn't really exist back then unless the normal telephone operator was skilled in calling emergency for help.

[vgalindo]

I think most people came to the conclusion on their own that given 1960's and early 1970's, treating heart disease issues were not as well addressed as they are today. Even open heart surgeries were in the beginning stages. So yes, I very well agree that Flo might have had a heart disorder that wasn't understood back then.

The presenter did NOT mention if heart disease ran in the Ballard family that Flo's heredity also played a part.

Plus I agree that waiting for Flo's relatives to assist Nicole probably did more damage in waiting. Things like calling 911 for help didn't really exist back then unless the normal telephone operator was skilled in calling emergency for help.

He did say both of Flos parents did not die of heart problems.

[PeaceNHarmony]

So it looks as if this program has proven once and for all that it was not mal/mistreatment by any individuals that led to Florence's untimely passing but rather a predisposed heart disease that was not diagnosable at that time. It's good the program has settled the matter beyond dispute.

[greg jones]

He did say both of Flos parents did not die of heart problems.

Thank you, I must have missed that.

[thanxal]

I think most people came to the conclusion on their own that given 1960's and early 1970's, treating heart disease issues were not as well addressed as they are today. Even open heart surgeries were in the beginning stages. So yes, I very well agree that Flo might have had a heart disorder that wasn't understood back then.

The presenter did NOT mention if heart disease ran in the Ballard family that Flo's heredity also played a part.

Plus I agree that waiting for Flo's relatives to assist Nicole probably did more damage in waiting. Things like calling 911 for help didn't really exist back then unless the normal telephone operator was skilled in calling emergency for help.

Wasn't she a heavy smoker? I can't recall where I read that she was, but if true, smoking has long been established to lead to heart disease.

[midnightman]

That's the only part I don't like about these documentaries: their inaccuracies. When Florence joined the Supremes at Disneyland that summer of 1974, she had yet to get that settlement after suing her lawyers for negligence and got that new house and she performed that year and was planning a comeback.

That said, sounds like they cleared something up like they did Elvis. Both had mad heart issues!

[marv2]

That's the only part I don't like about these documentaries: their inaccuracies. When Florence joined the Supremes at Disneyland that summer of 1974, she had yet to get that settlement after suing her lawyers for negligence and got that new house and she performed that year and was planning a comeback.

That said, sounds like they cleared something up like they did Elvis. Both had mad heart issues!

It wasn't Disneyland, it was Magic Mountain. Gotta watch those inaccuracies.......hehehehehehe!

[midnightman]

It wasn't Disneyland, it was Magic Mountain. Gotta watch those inaccuracies.......hehehehehehe!

Isn't Magic Mountain AT Disneyland???

That's not wrong at all LOL

[Boogiedown]

It wasn't Disneyland, it was Magic Mountain. Gotta watch those inaccuracies.......hehehehehehe!

Lol! Touché!

[johnny_raven]

Isn't Magic Mountain AT Disneyland???

That's not wrong at all LOL

No, Magic mountain is a Six Flags resort in Santa Clarita. Disneyland is in Anaheim ... about 1 ½ hour drive from each other [[if the traffic is decent).

[marv2]

Isn't Magic Mountain AT Disneyland???

That's not wrong at all LOL

If you asked Mary, "Well weren't you playing at Disneyland?" You'll get a confused look and then a rolling of the eyes because she will not know what the Hell you're talking about. They were at Magic Mountain, that's the name of the venue. LOL!

[marv2]

No, Magic mountain is a Six Flags resort in Santa Clarita. Disneyland is in Anaheim ... about 1 ½ hour drive from each other [[if the traffic is decent).

Thank you Johnny Raven.

[marv2]

Lol! Touché!

hehehehehehehehehehe!

[sup_fan]

Isn't Magic Mountain AT Disneyland???

That's not wrong at all LOL

i think you're referring to Space Mountain lol