[REMOVE ADS]




Results 1 to 48 of 48
  1. #1

    Bob Dylan's statement on Smokey ...was it made up?

    I'm pretty sure that I have read that the famous Bob Dylan qoute about Smokey being Americas greatest poet was made up by All Abram...Motown publicist.
    Can anybody confirm this....that Bob Dylan never said it, indeed, knew nothing about it?

  2. #2
    I think dylan said that smokey was-america's greatest living poet.

  3. #3
    The point of the thread is that he didn't say it.....

  4. #4
    http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/2012/08...-americas.html

    The story is here....made up by Abrams.
    Dylan knew nothing about it.

  5. #5
    My friend, the late, great Al Abrams told me while me while sitting in his living room, that he came up with that phrase and Bob Dylan used it in an interview.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/2012/08...-americas.html

    The story is here....made up by Abrams.
    Dylan knew nothing about it.
    If you read down further on the same page:

    Specifically, regarding the statement, “Al (Aronowitz) said that he had heard Dylan praise some of Smokey's lyrics as being poetical.” I can give you one documented case when Dylan did just that: The KQED press conference in December of 1965 (available on the DVD “Dylan Speaks”).
    Q: What poets do you dig?
    A: Rimbaud, I guess; W. C. Fields; The family, you know, the trapeze family in the circus; Smokey Robinson; Allen Ginsberg; Charlie Rich – he's a good poet.

    Not “America’s greatest living poet” (hey, Allen Ginsberg was in the audience at that press conference) but—potentially—in the top 6. Note that Smokey is listed along with W.C. Fields and the Flying Wallendas, neither of whom would normally be grouped with Rimbaud… the entire press conference is full of Dylan’s put-ons and non sequiturs. Too bad for Charlie Rich that Al Abrams wasn’t doing PR for HIM! He’d have an actual sound bite to use.

  7. #7
    Kind of off topic:

    While Smokey has definitely written some fantastic lyrics, does that automatically make him a poet?

    Richard Carpenter also comes to mind. And has probably more writing credits than Smoke.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Kind of off topic:

    While Smokey has definitely written some fantastic lyrics, does that automatically make him a poet?

    Richard Carpenter also comes to mind. And has probably more writing credits than Smoke.
    Jimmy Webb is a poet. While I love Smokey's usage of words, Jimmy's way with words reaches down to the depths of the soul and stirs it in a way that no modern songwriter has been able to do. Jimmy's lyrics will make you weep.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Kind of off topic:

    While Smokey has definitely written some fantastic lyrics, does that automatically make him a poet?

    Richard Carpenter also comes to mind. And has probably more writing credits than Smoke.
    There is no way I would believe that Richard Carpenter has written more songs than Smokey Robinson. Smokey had written close to 100 songs by the time he met Berry Gordy.

  10. #10
    I'm a Dylan fan and I've always assumed he made that statement about Smokey though I don't have exact specifics to point out. I would agree that Smokey's lyrics are indeed poetic.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    Jimmy Webb is a poet. While I love Smokey's usage of words, Jimmy's way with words reaches down to the depths of the soul and stirs it in a way that no modern songwriter has been able to do. Jimmy's lyrics will make you weep.
    Exactly. Smokey may have written some catchy tunes, but I think that hardly describes him as a "poet".

    Webb, yes.

    I just read somewhere that Smokey has written over 4,000 songs? Color me impressed.
    Last edited by marybrewster; 07-23-2018 at 06:57 AM.

  12. #12
    Music is basically poetry set to music,of course smokey is a poet,and whether dylan actually said it or not i love the statement!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    Music is basically poetry set to music,of course smokey is a poet,and whether dylan actually said it or not i love the statement!
    Smokey is a poet and as Al Abrams said before it was given to Bob Dylan to say, "Smokey Robinson is the greatest living American Poet"! He's also from Detroit! OMG! LOL!!!!

  14. #14
    Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

    Non of which detracts from the genius that was/is Smokey.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

    Non of which detracts from the genius that was/is Smokey.
    Right on Snakepit!!!

  16. #16
    It WAS good publicity for Smokey & Bob Dylan.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    There is no way I would believe that Richard Carpenter has written more songs than Smokey Robinson. Smokey had written close to 100 songs by the time he met Berry Gordy.
    I agree. I don't see how such a thing is possible. Carpenter is often credited (mistakenly) for writing many of the Carpenters' hits, such as "Close to You" and "We've Only Just Begun," neither of which he wrote. I think because he was so obviously the Svengali behind Karen's career that people just automatically assumed he'd written their material. Of course, he did write some of it, but I think most of their hits are written by others, although he did write one of my favorites "Goodbye to Love."

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I agree. I don't see how such a thing is possible. Carpenter is often credited (mistakenly) for writing many of the Carpenters' hits, such as "Close to You" and "We've Only Just Begun," neither of which he wrote. I think because he was so obviously the Svengali behind Karen's career that people just automatically assumed he'd written their material. Of course, he did write some of it, but I think most of their hits are written by others, although he did write one of my favorites "Goodbye to Love."
    I thought Burt Bacharach and Hal David etc wrote some of the Carpenter's songs

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I thought Burt Bacharach and Hal David etc wrote some of the Carpenter's songs
    They definitely wrote "Close to You," and I think Dionne Warwick sang it first. Paul Williams wrote "We've Only Just Begun" which started out as a bank commercial and I don't think was even a complete song until people started asking about its origin.

  20. #20
    Richard Carpenter's genius was as an arranger and producer though he did occasionally write and compose and what he did write/compose (Goodbye to Love, Top of the World, etc.) were exquisite.

    That said, even Smokey would say there were better musical poets than himself. Shoot, I think he even said Marvin wrote better songs than he did even if Marvin would beg to differ. Lol

  21. #21
    To my mind, a poem has to have some sort of structure or metre. When lyrics are set to music, especially if they rhyme, they automatically conform to this requirement. Accordingly Smokey Robinson's lyrics fit more into my conception of what poetry is than the majority of blank verse , which I think of as nothing more than poetic prose.

  22. #22
    If this is not poetry, I don't know what is.........

    I'll Try Something New
    The Miracles

    I will build you a castle with a tower so high
    It reaches the moon
    I'll gather melodies from birdies that fly
    And compose you a tune

    I'll give you lovin' warm as Mama's oven
    And if that don't do
    Then I'll try something new

    I will take you away with me as far as I can
    To Venus or Mars
    There we will love with your hand in my hand
    You'll be queen of the stars

    And every day we can play on the Milky Way
    And if that don't do
    Then I'll try something new

    I will bring you a flower from the floor of the sea
    To wear in your hair
    I'll do anything and everything to keep you happy
    To show you that I care

    I'll pretend I'm jealous of all the fellas
    And if that don't do
    Then I'll try something new

    I'll take the stars and count 'em and move a mountain
    And if that don't do I'll try something new
    I'll tell the moon above it's you that I love
    If it don't do I'll try something new...

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    If this is not poetry, I don't know what is.........

    I'll Try Something New
    The Miracles

    I will build you a castle with a tower so high
    It reaches the moon
    I'll gather melodies from birdies that fly
    And compose you a tune

    I'll give you lovin' warm as Mama's oven
    And if that don't do
    Then I'll try something new

    I will take you away with me as far as I can
    To Venus or Mars
    There we will love with your hand in my hand
    You'll be queen of the stars

    And every day we can play on the Milky Way
    And if that don't do
    Then I'll try something new

    I will bring you a flower from the floor of the sea
    To wear in your hair
    I'll do anything and everything to keep you happy
    To show you that I care

    I'll pretend I'm jealous of all the fellas
    And if that don't do
    Then I'll try something new

    I'll take the stars and count 'em and move a mountain
    And if that don't do I'll try something new
    I'll tell the moon above it's you that I love
    If it don't do I'll try something new...
    Exactly....

  24. #24
    @marv2 and @144man, I totally agree. Anyway, poetry doesn't have to follow any rules to be good.

    My sister used to write poetry and I used to joke that "I knew it was good because it didn't rhyme!" (Seriously, some of it was quite good, but of course it would irritate her to no end when I would say that.)

  25. #25
    On British trains there used to be a sign which read:

    "To stop the train
    Pull down the chain.
    Penalty for improper use £5."

    I'm not sure whether that counts as poetry or not, especially as it was possible to read the notice in time to the sound that the train made on the track.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    @marv2 and @144man, I totally agree. Anyway, poetry doesn't have to follow any rules to be good.

    My sister used to write poetry and I used to joke that "I knew it was good because it didn't rhyme!" (Seriously, some of it was quite good, but of course it would irritate her to no end when I would say that.)
    I hoped she saved her work. That is where some of our greatest work is going to found in the future. From those that wrote poetry because they loved doing it!

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I hoped she saved her work. That is where some of our greatest work is going to found in the future. From those that wrote poetry because they loved doing it!
    Ironically, she didn't, but I did. Of course, I save everything! It's one of my biggest problems. Thanks Marv!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    http://swarmuth.blogspot.com/2012/08...-americas.html

    The story is here....made up by Abrams.
    Dylan knew nothing about it.
    It's crazy to note that one of the most famous quotes was NEVER uttered...

  29. #29
    Rather like "Play it again Sam"......it was NOT used in the film (Casablanca).

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    Rather like "Play it again Sam"......it was NOT used in the film (Casablanca).
    Or when Harriet Tubman said she could've freed more slaves "if they knew they were slaves". That quote doesn't exist either.

  31. #31
    Neither does-judy,judy judy[cary grant]or- you dirty rat you killed my brother[james cagney].

  32. #32
    LOL yeah I thought the Cagney quote was fishy...

  33. #33
    Motown related but did Marvin EVER say "if you can't find peace in yourself, you won't find it anywhere else"? I mean it would sound like something he would say but for some reason I don't believe it coming out of his mouth. Try finding it in his biography but I don't think he was ever quoted saying it. Or I speed-read it and skipped it.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    Neither does-judy,judy judy[cary grant]or- you dirty rat you killed my brother[james cagney].
    And Bette Davis never said, "Pe-tah, Pe-tah, Pe-tah!" in a movie either.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    Ironically, she didn't, but I did. Of course, I save everything! It's one of my biggest problems. Thanks Marv!
    You must be a relative of mine, because that his how I and members of my family are! My grandmother saved my first pacifier! LOL! You're most welcome Kenneth.

  36. #36
    Check this out for what Bob Dylan said in an interview back in the 60s. He doesn't use the exact quote,but....... It starts at 1:03 in the video:


  37. #37
    I think that was were Al Abrams got the idea to "create" the tale.
    He took a throwaway line and built a story around it.

    Interesting video....these stories get told over and over again...sometimes the story overtakes reality.

    It's like seeing an old football star give an after dinner speech......they embellish the real story...like when the scored four goals in a match .....when the records show you that it never happened...they never did get four! But the story continues, people like to hear them.
    Last edited by snakepit; 08-06-2018 at 03:05 PM.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You must be a relative of mine, because that his how I and members of my family are! My grandmother saved my first pacifier! LOL! You're most welcome Kenneth.
    We must both come from a long line of hoarders! I've finally started to sell off some of my record collection though I'm not going near the Motown/R&B yet. But even so, every time I mention to my mother that something is particularly hard to part with, she says something like "Then don't give it away. You might regret it later!" It's hopeless!

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    I think that was were Al Abrams got the idea to "create" the tale.
    He took a throwaway line and built a story around it.

    Interesting video....these stories get told over and over again...sometimes the story overtakes reality.

    It's like seeing an old football star give an after dinner speech......they embellish the real story...like when the scored four goals in a match .....when the records show you that it never happened...they never did get four! But the story continues, people like to hear them.
    It's like that old saying: "repeat a myth and it becomes the truth". That's how people got away with saying Elvis had a concert watched by a billion people worldwide when that was far from the actual case.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    I think that was were Al Abrams got the idea to "create" the tale.
    He took a throwaway line and built a story around it.

    Interesting video....these stories get told over and over again...sometimes the story overtakes reality.

    It's like seeing an old football star give an after dinner speech......they embellish the real story...like when the scored four goals in a match .....when the records show you that it never happened...they never did get four! But the story continues, people like to hear them.
    Now that makes sense and Lord knows Motown was full of tall tales! LOL!!! Reading the book "Berry, Motown and Me" by Raynoma Gordy-Singleton clued me into a lot of things.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    We must both come from a long line of hoarders! I've finally started to sell off some of my record collection though I'm not going near the Motown/R&B yet. But even so, every time I mention to my mother that something is particularly hard to part with, she says something like "Then don't give it away. You might regret it later!" It's hopeless!
    Kenneth we are! I mean there is a cabinet in the back of one of my mothers upstairs closets that still has school work papers in it that I and my brother did back in the early 70s LOL! I wished I still had my baseball cards and all of my comics from the 60s. Some of those things did get thrown out. I have belongings in storage is several places. LOL!!!!

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Now that makes sense and Lord knows Motown was full of tall tales! LOL!!! Reading the book "Berry, Motown and Me" by Raynoma Gordy-Singleton clued me into a lot of things.
    A good book....some interesting stories....some no doubt embellished, but that's all part of the fun.
    Seriously though, I think Raynoma was very important in driving and pushing Berry along in the early days...she brought a lot of talent to the music side of things.
    Reading between the lines, her mistake was to push him into romance, which it seems he didn't want. It appears that he liked her, realised what she was doing but was not ready for a marriage that she forced him into.
    Last edited by snakepit; 08-06-2018 at 05:20 PM.

  43. #43
    @snakepit, I still think Raynoma's book, along with Mary's, are the two best books about Motown's early days. Both have so much detail and are so well written. Raynoma was truly "unsung."

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Kenneth we are! I mean there is a cabinet in the back of one of my mothers upstairs closets that still has school work papers in it that I and my brother did back in the early 70s LOL! I wished I still had my baseball cards and all of my comics from the 60s. Some of those things did get thrown out. I have belongings in storage is several places. LOL!!!!
    That is hilarious...!

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    @snakepit, I still think Raynoma's book, along with Mary's, are the two best books about Motown's early days. Both have so much detail and are so well written. Raynoma was truly "unsung."
    Yes I agree.

  46. #46
    Wait, that "she" forced him to? If she had that power, then why did he go ahead and do it? He must've wanted to marry at a certain time too... <_<

  47. #47
    Berry wouldn't be the first man to have his girlfriend tell him that marriage was good for him!
    I presume you know that Berry "walked" out on the first attempt at marriage. He literally stopped the car and said " stop the wedding"....
    Sounds like somebody who had serious doubts that a second marriage, so soon after his failed first, was not what he wanted.
    Coupled with the fact that after the marriage he was having an affair with Margaret Norton.
    His marriage to Raynoma fell apart almost from day 1.
    I think Ray's book tells you that she forced him into it.

    In fact, if I recall correctly, Berry was seeing Ms. Norton on Raynoma/Berry's wedding night.!
    To me, it was a time when things were coming together for Berry. Raynoma was important to him and Motown , with skills in the studio coupled with his drive and hustle. But it seems that BG was wary of getting married again. Raynoma pushed him into a corner, that quickly backfired.
    It's all in the book.
    Last edited by snakepit; 08-07-2018 at 04:24 AM.

  48. #48
    when Huffington Post posed the following question to Dylan in a 2011 interview:

    Who are some of your favorite songwriters?

    his answer was:

    "Buffet, I guess. Lightfoot. Warren Zevon. Randy. John Prine. Guy Clark. Those kinds of writers."

    from:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/..._n_187216.html

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

[REMOVE ADS]

Ralph Terrana
MODERATOR

Welcome to Soulful Detroit! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.