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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by sansradio View Post
    #DEAD

    I always thought the rightful King of R&B was Solomon Burke, myself.
    In terms of who you talk to, it's either him, Ray Charles, James Brown, Otis Redding or Marvin.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    R. Kelly? You're confusing him with the "King of R & Pee".
    Now that is TOO cold! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    In terms of who you talk to, it's either him, Ray Charles, James Brown, Otis Redding or Marvin.
    I think it depends on the era.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I think it depends on the era.
    I couldn't call it, myself. I'd probably go with Ray Charles as the ORIGINAL king.

  5. #105
    Ray also had Sam Cooke and Jackie Wilson to contend with the original R&B king title lol

    But yeah he would fit that title.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I couldn't call it, myself. I'd probably go with Ray Charles as the ORIGINAL king.
    I always think of Ray Charles as "The Father of R&B".

  7. #107
    Ray Charles is definitely a front runner. I'd add Marvin Gaye also, Luther as well. Scandal aside, R Kelly definitely has a case for it. Bobby Brown shouldn't even be in the conversation.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Ray Charles is definitely a front runner. I'd add Marvin Gaye also, Luther as well. Scandal aside, R Kelly definitely has a case for it. Bobby Brown shouldn't even be in the conversation.
    In terms of eras:

    '50s (Ray Charles or Sam Cooke)
    '60s (James Brown, Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett, Solomon Burke, Marvin)
    '70s (Marvin, Stevie, Al Green, Barry White, Teddy Pendergrass)
    '80s (Luther, Freddie Jackson)
    '90s (Luther, R & Pee)

    Bobby only had one smash album (Don't Be Cruel) and it's seen mainly as a new jack swing album with SOME pop and R&B in it. That's not enough to be [in my best Whitney voice] "the original R&B KINNNNG-NUH" (lol; that's how she said it if you hear it right hahaha; I miss you Whitney).

    The follow-up only had Humpin' Around, Getaway and Good Enough (which was only successful on the R&B side) and that was only because R&B again was going through a transition from pop-inflected new jack swing to a much harsher, darker R&B sound that was to be dominated by Mary J. Blige. So Bobby's time was over in 1992-93.
    Last edited by midnightman; 08-04-2018 at 11:28 AM.

  9. #109
    LOL. Interesting discussion regarding "king of R&B". Given the fact that kings have successors, I'd suggest that Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye, Jackie Wilson et.al are all "kings of R&B". Whitney did say "original king", though. That's why I went with Ray. I still chuckle when I think of Bobby Brown being the original king of R&B, though. Cocaine is a hell of a drug, Whitney.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    LOL. Interesting discussion regarding "king of R&B". Given the fact that kings have successors, I'd suggest that Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye, Jackie Wilson et.al are all "kings of R&B". Whitney did say "original king", though. That's why I went with Ray. I still chuckle when I think of Bobby Brown being the original king of R&B, though. Cocaine is a hell of a drug, Whitney.
    According to a L.A. Times music critic, Whitney also said he was the king of hip-hop. LOL

    That woman spent years trying to make Bobby feel like something. We all saw how Bobby repaid her.

    She knew it was BS but said it anyway.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    LOL. Interesting discussion regarding "king of R&B". Given the fact that kings have successors, I'd suggest that Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye, Jackie Wilson et.al are all "kings of R&B". Whitney did say "original king", though. That's why I went with Ray. I still chuckle when I think of Bobby Brown being the original king of R&B, though. Cocaine is a hell of a drug, Whitney.
    I am guessing that she used that term because there had never been a officially proclaimed "King of R&B", unlike when James Brown was known as the "King of Soul" in the sixties.

  12. #112
    Well, Liz Taylor called Michael Jackson the "King of Pop, Rock and Soul" but he got tagged with the worst moniker in music, the "King of Pop". I have always hated that title.

  13. #113
    I still refer to MJ as "The Gloved One" or "The King" period.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    In terms of eras:

    '50s (Ray Charles or Sam Cooke)
    '60s (James Brown, Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett, Solomon Burke, Marvin)
    '70s (Marvin, Stevie, Barry White, Teddy Pendergrass)
    '80s (Luther, Freddie Jackson, Keith Sweat)
    '90s (Luther, R & Pee)

    Bobby only had one smash album (Don't Be Cruel) and it's seen mainly as a new jack swing album with SOME pop and R&B in it. That's not enough to be [in my best Whitney voice] "the original R&B KINNNNG-NUH" (lol; that's how she said it if you hear it right hahaha; I miss you Whitney).

    The follow-up only had Humpin' Around, Getaway and Good Enough (which was only successful on the R&B side) and that was only because R&B again was going through a transition from pop-inflected new jack swing to a much harsher, darker R&B sound that was to be dominated by Mary J. Blige. So Bobby's time was over in 1992-93.
    I would add Al Green to the 70's list. He was quite magnificent, and i would delete Keith Sweat from the 80's.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    I would add Al Green to the 70's list. He was quite magnificent, and i would delete Keith Sweat from the 80's.
    UGH I forgot Al!!! -_-

    Yeah I thought about the Keith inclusion... seems unfair when Luther and Freddie had that down pat.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Well, Liz Taylor called Michael Jackson the "King of Pop, Rock and Soul" but he got tagged with the worst moniker in music, the "King of Pop". I have always hated that title.
    I didn't like that title either. King of the Charts probably wouldn't have worked either.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I still refer to MJ as "The Gloved One" or "The King" period.
    I think Elvis' fans refer to him as "The King".

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    UGH I forgot Al!!! -_-

    Yeah I thought about the Keith inclusion... seems unfair when Luther and Freddie had that down pat.
    Howard Hewitt was one of the best male singers out in the 80s.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Howard Hewitt was one of the best male singers out in the 80s.
    I'd put Luther over all from the time "Never Too Much" came out until his death. The only male singer I'd put on par with him would be Al Jarreau, who was more of a jazz artist. I used to love Howard Hewitt and James Ingram back then.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I'd put Luther over all from the time "Never Too Much" came out until his death. The only male singer I'd put on par with him would be Al Jarreau, who was more of a jazz artist. I used to love Howard Hewitt and James Ingram back then.
    You know the best singers came out of Ohio (and Michigan). I would easily nominate Ron Isley and Levi Stubbs and representative from Ohio and Michigan in the National Best Male R&B Singer in History Contest LOL!!!!

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I'd put Luther over all from the time "Never Too Much" came out until his death. The only male singer I'd put on par with him would be Al Jarreau, who was more of a jazz artist. I used to love Howard Hewitt and James Ingram back then.
    James Ingram is from Ohio. I think he is from Akron, so is Howard.

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    You know the best singers came out of Ohio (and Michigan). I would easily nominate Ron Isley and Levi Stubbs and representative from Ohio and Michigan in the National Best Male R&B Singer in History Contest LOL!!!!
    Yeah, some really good singers. Don't leave the O'Jays out of that discussion.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I'd put Luther over all from the time "Never Too Much" came out until his death. The only male singer I'd put on par with him would be Al Jarreau, who was more of a jazz artist. I used to love Howard Hewitt and James Ingram back then.
    I would have to got back a bit further than that to right around 1975-76 with "This Is For Real".

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Yeah, some really good singers. Don't leave the O'Jays out of that discussion.
    Yeah, but if I include them, I'll have to inclued the Ohio Players (Ohio) and the Temptations (Michigan)...... hehehehehehehehhe1

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Yeah, some really good singers. Don't leave the O'Jays out of that discussion.
    They were the top soul group of the '70s though lol

  26. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I would have to got back a bit further than that to right around 1975-76 with "This Is For Real".
    My uncle came back from Alabama with an album by his group Luther in 1976 of so. We listened to "The Second Time Around" and "A Brand New Day" in their original compositions. When he won the Grammy for Best New Artist two years later, I didn't understand it. I guess regional artists don't qualify for recognition.

  27. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    They were the top soul group of the '70s though lol
    I know. But Walter White and Eddie Levert hold up with any singers from any age, in my opinion.

  28. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    They were the top soul group of the '70s though lol
    The Spinners would argue that point with you, but they, the O'Jays were one of the top groups then.

  29. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    My uncle came back from Alabama with an album by his group Luther in 1976 of so. We listened to "The Second Time Around" and "A Brand New Day" in their original compositions. When he won the Grammy for Best New Artist two years later, I didn't understand it. I guess regional artists don't qualify for recognition.
    Yep! My brother bought his first two albums in 1976 when his group was called "Luther". I too was surprise at how everyone was making out like he was a brand new artist in 1981. He sang the lead on Change's record.

  30. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I know. But Walter White and Eddie Levert hold up with any singers from any age, in my opinion.
    Walter Williams and Eddie Levert are ICONS! They came from the Old School and kept it going almost as long as the Four Tops! They still put on a high quality show today after all of these years. I last saw them in 2015.

  31. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I know. But Walter White and Eddie Levert hold up with any singers from any age, in my opinion.
    That's true but we're talking about SOLO SINGERS lol

  32. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Walter Williams and Eddie Levert are ICONS! They came from the Old School and kept it going almost as long as the Four Tops! They still put on a high quality show today after all of these years. I last saw them in 2015.
    LOL. Walter White was the protagonist on "Breaking Bad". I must be programmed to type "White" after "Walter"...

  33. #133
    The O'Jays at this point are a national R&B treasure. Everyone who's a true R&B fan know about the O'Jays, least the two who have been both the hearts and voices of the group (Eddie and Walter).

    And we're veering totally off topic lmao

  34. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    That's true but we're talking about SOLO SINGERS lol
    True, true... And if I suggested that they were the Kings of Soul Group Lead Singers, I'd get my ass kicked around here. Navigating between Eddie, David, Levi, Smokey and Michael on a Soulful Detroit forum would be impossible. And those are just the first-name-only singers from Motown. Toss in Bobby Smith, Gerald Alston and the aforementioned O'Jays and picking the best leads in soul groups would start a fight around here that might never end.

  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    True, true... And if I suggested that they were the Kings of Soul Group Lead Singers, I'd get my ass kicked around here. Navigating between Eddie, David, Levi, Smokey and Michael on a Soulful Detroit forum would be impossible. And those are just the first-name-only singers from Motown. Toss in Bobby Smith, Gerald Alston and the aforementioned O'Jays and picking the best leads in soul groups would start a fight around here that might never end.
    True! It would be a mess lol

  36. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    That's true but we're talking about SOLO SINGERS lol
    I never understood why the distinction. A great singer is a great singer period! Most of your "solo singers" sing with background singers and bands, so they are not truly "solo" as they are not usually the only voice we hear on their recordings or in their concerts.

  37. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    LOL. Walter White was the protagonist on "Breaking Bad". I must be programmed to type "White" after "Walter"...
    I knew who you meant, but it is blasphemous to be from Ohio and not know the correct names of the O'Jays! How could you Jerry? Go to your room now young man! LOL!!!!!

  38. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    True, true... And if I suggested that they were the Kings of Soul Group Lead Singers, I'd get my ass kicked around here. Navigating between Eddie, David, Levi, Smokey and Michael on a Soulful Detroit forum would be impossible. And those are just the first-name-only singers from Motown. Toss in Bobby Smith, Gerald Alston and the aforementioned O'Jays and picking the best leads in soul groups would start a fight around here that might never end.
    Well, I notice you didn't mention Ron Banks, LJ Reynolds, Marvin Junior, Johnny of the Dells, Russell Thompkins Jr., Peabo Bryson, Jeffrey Osborne, Glen Jones, Barry White, just to name a few. My point is there are and have been an incredible number of excellent male singers whether they were a part of a group or "solo" to really pick a legitimate "King of R&B". What was it they named Rick James?

  39. #139
    I don't remember Rick James' tag. But only George Clinton and James Brown surpassed him as funk artists. Roger came close. With that said, the other three artists were more influential because other than samples, you can hear their riffs and rhythms in songs still being made but only Rick James had the ability to make his songs the way that he did.

  40. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I'd put Luther over all from the time "Never Too Much" came out until his death. The only male singer I'd put on par with him would be Al Jarreau, who was more of a jazz artist. I used to love Howard Hewitt and James Ingram back then.
    Howard and James are certainly great singers. I saw Howard in concert here in the UK a couple of months back and he was as magnificent as ever. Al Jarreau was an amazing live performer. I saw him twice and was captivated by how he used that unique voice. A true one off.

  41. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I don't remember Rick James' tag. But only George Clinton and James Brown surpassed him as funk artists. Roger came close. With that said, the other three artists were more influential because other than samples, you can hear their riffs and rhythms in songs still being made but only Rick James had the ability to make his songs the way that he did.
    Rick James was called "The King of Punk Funk".

  42. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Rick James was called "The King of Punk Funk".
    The reason why I didn't suggest that is because he was the one who have himself that name. He came up with the "punk funk" name for his genre, which he used to refer to his and Prince's music, specifically. "Street Songs" and "Dirty Mind" would be the best examples of it, in my opinion, followed by most of the two-album "1999". By the way, if I was to recognize the genre, Prince would be the king.

  43. #143
    There was actually a genre for punk funk but they didn't include either Rick or Prince though genre/style wise, Prince would've fit the punk aesthetic than Rick, who was more glam rock by comparison (glitter, jumpsuits, long hair, etc.). Prince had that entire "rude boy" persona used mainly by punk acts. Rick technically never had any punk influences but he surely had the rock influence down pat. He came of age in the psychedelic rock era of the late '60s. So his style would be more Robert Plant than, say, Joey Ramone or Johnny Rotten (John Lydon).

    Rick did make up that title though but something like Super Freak was more new wave and rock influenced than punk. Other than that, he would've been seen as another disco/funk performer. I imagine he named himself "king of punk funk" because he wanted to have some identity and he got one.

  44. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    There was actually a genre for punk funk but they didn't include either Rick or Prince though genre/style wise, Prince would've fit the punk aesthetic than Rick, who was more glam rock by comparison (glitter, jumpsuits, long hair, etc.). Prince had that entire "rude boy" persona used mainly by punk acts. Rick technically never had any punk influences but he surely had the rock influence down pat. He came of age in the psychedelic rock era of the late '60s. So his style would be more Robert Plant than, say, Joey Ramone or Johnny Rotten (John Lydon).

    Rick did make up that title though but something like Super Freak was more new wave and rock influenced than punk. Other than that, he would've been seen as another disco/funk performer. I imagine he named himself "king of punk funk" because he wanted to have some identity and he got one.
    I co-sign to this entire post, MM. Nicely stated.

  45. #145
    Thanks Jerry.

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