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  1. #1

    Your Opinions Please

    Hi All: I would just like to get the opinions of anyone who wishes to give one (or more). I was reading an article about Whitney recently and came upon this sentence: "Yes, she was booed at the 1989 Soul Train Awards and that great musical genius Al Sharpton once recommended that black people boycott her records because of their blinding whiteness." I had forgotten all about that and this article jolted my memory.

    What are your thoughts about Al Sharpton recommending that black people boycott her records and calling her "Whitey Houston"?

    Also, what are your opinions about her being booed at the Soul Train Awards? I'd appreciate any opinions you may have to share. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by RTA6226 View Post
    Hi All: I would just like to get the opinions of anyone who wishes to give one (or more). I was reading an article about Whitney recently and came upon this sentence: "Yes, she was booed at the 1989 Soul Train Awards and that great musical genius Al Sharpton once recommended that black people boycott her records because of their blinding whiteness." I had forgotten all about that and this article jolted my memory.

    What are your thoughts about Al Sharpton recommending that black people boycott her records and calling her "Whitey Houston"?

    Also, what are your opinions about her being booed at the Soul Train Awards? I'd appreciate any opinions you may have to share. Thanks.
    I never ever heard of this until just now. Wait 'till I Google this...

    OK: first, here's the reason she was booed off the award show:



    She sounded like shit!

    Now: What a twisted, racist world we live in! Black people want equality and not to be judged on the basis of race and culture, yet we condemn and ostracize those whom do not conform to a narrowly defined Afrocentric view and lifestyle.

    Black artists have always been taken to task by Blacks (and some Whites) for not being "black enough". Whitney Houston wasn't anything new, this had been happening since people tried to make Blacks palatable for "proper White folk". There have been many. Among them are: Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr., Lou Rawls, The Supremes, Jimi Hendrix, Louis Armstrong, Lionel Hampton, Dianne Carroll, Bill Cosby, and Whitney Houston. hell! What do you think Motown's Maxine Powell's etiquette school was all about?

    It's part of a continuing question that Blacks have to ask themselves and each other: what does it mean to be Black? Do you have to walk, talk, sing, and act a certain way to be accepted as Black? How Black do you want Blacks to be? Black? Violet-Black? Blue-Black? Deep super-duper Black? Black people in America fought hard to stop Whites from doing that to us, and then we do it to ourselves??? And, Black people who don't "fit the profile" feel it all the time! I know I do, so I can relate to this. I remember some years ago, a forum member criticized me because I didn't know the "Black National Anthem". What? Is that some kind of requirement? My Black family, nor I, ever got the memo.

    Why do people, both White and Black, still think of Black people being some monolithic group of people? Are Black people not allowed to be individuals and think for ourselves? Are we not allowed to enjoy Whitney's music after that first album? Can I not enjoy AC/DC or Carpenters music? And, how about this: why do we think that White people are so clean and pure that they have to be presented with a squeaky-clean image of Black people? (Well, maybe they do over at the Fox news channel.) Last time I checked, plenty of White people love Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, NWA, 2-Live Crew, and others. I remember when an awful lot of Whites were literally scared of NWA and other gangsta rappers, and a lot of others loved them.

    Many Black singers struggles with being accepted by those of their own race. Jimi Hendrix disbanded The Experience because he was criticized for being "too White". Prince recorded the "Black Album" because he was criticized for being "too White". I'm sure Michael Jackson even felt the sting of this type of criticism. And, now there is strong evidence that Whitney felt the same. Why do we do this to ourselves and each other? Just because a Black person doesn't fit someone else's narrow definition of Blackness? What is "sounding White"? What is "sounding Black"?

    I looked around and have yet to find any evidence of Al Sharpton calling her "Whitey Houston" and calling for a boycott of her records. Perhaps someone can provide credible evidence of this.

    Meanwhile, here are a couple of links I came up with:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0bb2d08720ecd

    http://gawker.com/remember-when-whit...o-w-1660783143


    Oh, and one more thing: this forum covered this exact, same issue before.
    Last edited by soulster; 07-11-2018 at 12:07 PM. Reason: added text, fixed typos

  3. #3
    Thanks SO much Soulster for your opinions. Thanks also for sharing the links. One of them I have but not the other. Also thanks so much for the link where you guys covered this before. I was not aware of that. I really appreciate it. I'll try to make more comments later.

  4. #4
    I was around and awake from the very beginning of Whitney Houston's career to the very end. I remember some folks booing her at that awards show and to be honest, it pissed me off! How dare they? Was my feelings at the time. Whitney was the greatest voice, singer, vocalist of a generation. I do not recall ever hearing that about Al Sharpton. It does not sound like something he would say and I am very familiar with the Reverend.

    I would have been in all kinds of fights that night had I been there. I do not believe Al Sharpton called for any boycott of Whitney's music. I think someone, somewhere made that shit up to add to the drama. I know I would have heard about it back at the time if it were true.

    What Whitney experienced is what some of the most successful black artists in history experienced. I remember when people ragged on the Supremes in the late 60s for "not being black enough". They made similar disparaging comments about Sammy Davis Jr., Dionne Warwick, Pearl Bailey etc, etc, etc. Leontyne Price anyone? It is just plain stupidity when some feel that ALL black artists have to be funky all the time. Also, believe it or not, not all black singers came out of the Baptist Church singing Gospel!

    I have also noticed that when any of the black artists that successfully crossed over to white or Pop audiences, whenever they wanted to get Funky or Soulful, they were put down by that same Pop audience with comments like "what is he or she doing? I don't get it or sounds ghetto!".
    Last edited by marv2; 07-11-2018 at 05:57 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    I never ever heard of this until just now. Wait 'till I Google this...

    OK: first, here's the reason she was booed off the award show:



    She sounded like shit!

    Now: What a twisted, racist world we live in! Black people want equality and not to be judged on the basis of race and culture, yet we condemn and ostracize those whom do not conform to a narrowly defined Afrocentric view and lifestyle.

    Black artists have always been taken to task by Blacks (and some Whites) for not being "black enough". Whitney Houston wasn't anything new, this had been happening since people tried to make Blacks palatable for "proper White folk". There have been many. Among them are: Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr., Lou Rawls, The Supremes, Jimi Hendrix, Louis Armstrong, Lionel Hampton, Dianne Carroll, Bill Cosby, and Whitney Houston. hell! What do you think Motown's Maxine Powell's etiquette school was all about?

    It's part of a continuing question that Blacks have to ask themselves and each other: what does it mean to be Black? Do you have to walk, talk, sing, and act a certain way to be accepted as Black? How Black do you want Blacks to be? Black? Violet-Black? Blue-Black? Deep super-duper Black? Black people in America fought hard to stop Whites from doing that to us, and then we do it to ourselves??? And, Black people who don't "fit the profile" feel it all the time! I know I do, so I can relate to this. I remember some years ago, a forum member criticized me because I didn't know the "Black National Anthem". What? Is that some kind of requirement? My Black family, nor I, ever got the memo.

    Why do people, both White and Black, still think of Black people being some monolithic group of people? Are Black people not allowed to be individuals and think for ourselves? Are we not allowed to enjoy Whitney's music after that first album? Can I not enjoy AC/DC or Carpenters music? And, how about this: why do we think that White people are so clean and pure that they have to be presented with a squeaky-clean image of Black people? (Well, maybe they do over at the Fox news channel.) Last time I checked, plenty of White people love Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, NWA, 2-Live Crew, and others. I remember when an awful lot of Whites were literally scared of NWA and other gangsta rappers, and a lot of others loved them.

    Many Black singers struggles with being accepted by those of their own race. Jimi Hendrix disbanded The Experience because he was criticized for being "too White". Prince recorded the "Black Album" because he was criticized for being "too White". I'm sure Michael Jackson even felt the sting of this type of criticism. And, now there is strong evidence that Whitney felt the same. Why do we do this to ourselves and each other? Just because a Black person doesn't fit someone else's narrow definition of Blackness? What is "sounding White"? What is "sounding Black"?

    I looked around and have yet to find any evidence of Al Sharpton calling her "Whitey Houston" and calling for a boycott of her records. Perhaps someone can provide credible evidence of this.

    Meanwhile, here are a couple of links I came up with:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0bb2d08720ecd

    http://gawker.com/remember-when-whit...o-w-1660783143


    Oh, and one more thing: this forum covered this exact, same issue before.
    I did not read your post before posting my own comments. I appreciate your post now that I have read it.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I remember some folks booing her at that awards show and to be honest, it pissed me off! How dare they? Was my feelings at the time. Whitney was the greatest voice, singer, vocalist of a generation. I would have been in all kinds of fights that night had I been there.

    What Whitney experienced is what some of the most successful black artists in history experienced. I remember when people ragged on the Supremes in the late 60s for "not being black enough". They made similar disparaging comments about Sammy Davis Jr., Dionne Warwick, Pearl Bailey etc, etc, etc. Leontyne Price anyone? It is just plain stupidity when some feel that ALL black artists have to be funky all the time. Also, believe it or not, not all black singers came out of the Baptist Church singing Gospel!".
    Thanks for your comments also Marv. I agree with what you said about the above artists and YES, all Black singers don't come out of the Baptist church, as is mentioned below by Marilyn McCoo of the 5th Dimension. They and the Rascals are my favorite singing groups. The same thing happened to the 5th Dimension. Like you said, it pissed me off, too!

    This is a quote I found from one of the many articles I have about them. Their producer, Bones Howe said in an interview, “But there was always this pressure, because wherever they would go out and work blacks would give them pressure about being too white. And the pressure was always on me to make R&B records.”

    Billy: “We took a lot of criticism, but it was because I felt like we were opening up new ground. We were pioneers. We were just putting it out the way that we felt it, and the way that we wanted to sing it.”

    Marilyn’s reaction was even sharper. “I told people then, I did not grow up in a church, singing gospel music. And the kind of music I heard around the house when I was growing up happened to be pop music. It was the kind of stuff my parents listened to. We weren’t thinking that it was a ‘white’ sound,” she says, “it was a ‘different’ sound. We were putting some interesting harmonics in there. When people started accusing us of betraying our blackness, we got angry. I still bristle at that today!"

    Lamonte remembers when black members of the student body at California’s Valparaiso College had picketed the the 5th Dimension at their concert and were angry at the college's concert–booking policy, choosing “too many white acts.” “So they said OK, they’d get somebody. And they got us. And the black people said ‘Well, this ain’t representative of what we’re asking for at all.'”

    Marv, again like you, had I been at that College and had seen that, I would have done some SERIOUS acting out! BTW, the Rascals went through some similar stuff when they went to the deep south on tour after "People Got to be Free" became a hit and after they changed their concert policy; that if half of the acts on the bill weren't Black they wouldn't play. They were told they had become "too Black" and not in such tactful ways and they were confronted by a motorcycle gang. They said that they don't know HOW they got the hell outta there! I swear all of this is SO ridiculous! Why can't entertainers just make their music and we enjoy it without all of this
    conundrum?

  8. #8
    Thanks for the links, but I am looking specifically for quotes by Sharpton where he allegedly called her "Whitey Houston". Remember, you can repeat a rumor or lie so often that people can believe it is absolutely true.

    BTW, I always found it funny that "Nippy" was Whitney's nickname. "Nippy" conjures up an image of a woman's nipple.

  9. #9
    Thanks Marv and RTA!

    I'm glad you guys brought up The 5th Dimension as an example of what I am talking about. The Friends Of Distinction is another Black vocal group that suffered, though less so. BTW, I recommend you both get the 5th Dimension Complete Soul City-Bell Singles 1966-1975 CD before it disappears forever. They don't print many of these.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Thanks Marv and RTA!

    I'm glad you guys brought up The 5th Dimension as an example of what I am talking about. The Friends Of Distinction is another Black vocal group that suffered, though less so. BTW, I recommend you both get the 5th Dimension Complete Soul City-Bell Singles 1966-1975 CD before it disappears forever. They don't print many of these.
    You're welcome. I have always loved the 5th Dimension since I first heard them.........in the 1st Grade! LOL! Even when they stopped having hits, I would watch them anytime they were on TV with new replacements. I had huge crush on Florence LaRue! The Friends of Distinction were a Jazzier version of the 5th ("Love or Let Me Be Lonely" for example). I remember liking this black New Wave group back in college called "The Bus Boys". I liked some of Tracey Chapman's songs oh and remember this guy? He was from Detroit but found initial success in Great Britian as a member of "Wham!"....Deon Estus


    Last edited by marv2; 07-12-2018 at 12:46 PM.

  11. #11
    And, there were a lot of Black heavy metal bands in the late 60s and early 70s that got nowhere because labels wouldn't sign them. Remember the band Mother's Finest? RCA, believe it or not, allowed them to record metal. But, when they signed to Epic Records in the mid-70s, they were forced to go in an R&B direction because the label said no one would accept a Black rock band.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    I never ever heard of this until just now. Wait 'till I Google this...

    OK: first, here's the reason she was booed off the award show:

    (Video link removed)

    She sounded like shit!
    Soulster, the video link you referenced in your post is from Whitney's 2010 UK/European Nothing But Love Tour. The incident that is being referenced (Whitney being booed at the Soul Train Awards) took place in 1989. The new documentary covers both the subject of the Soul Train Awards and Rev. Al Sharpton. She was booed at the awards show when they were presenting the nominees for an award, and her name was announced as a nominee while they played a clip from her video, "Where Do Broken Hearts Go". They said that the audience had turned on her for being 'too white'. They go into further detail of the impact that event had on Whitney. It was also the same night that she met Bobby Brown.

    As for Rev. Al Sharpton, they also discuss his protesting of Whitney's music in the late 80's and said he called her "Whitey Houston" and asked for a boycott. They said he had led a protest outside of one of her hotel rooms around this time. I was surprised by this, as I had never heard this story prior to seeing the documentary.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    Soulster, the video link you referenced in your post is from Whitney's 2010 UK/European Nothing But Love Tour. The incident that is being referenced (Whitney being booed at the Soul Train Awards) took place in 1989.
    Ah! Well, she still sounded horrible at that concert! That's what drugs, drinking, and alcohol will do to you.

    The new documentary covers both the subject of the Soul Train Awards and Rev. Al Sharpton.
    Yeah, I got that.

    She was booed at the awards show when they were presenting the nominees for an award, and her name was announced as a nominee while they played a clip from her video, "Where Do Broken Hearts Go". They said that the audience had turned on her for being 'too white'.
    And, that's the thing of it right there: what if any of those teenage or early twenty-something 90s R&B singers had done the song? Then what? No one criticized them for doing that same type of material.

    They go into further detail of the impact that event had on Whitney.
    Oh, i'm sure it did! Whitney had been well sheltered and handled at that point. She probably had no idea how a lot of Black folk felt about her. I also find it interesting how Soul Train gave her the award in the midst of these criticisms.

    As for Rev. Al Sharpton, they also discuss his protesting of Whitney's music in the late 80's and said he called her "Whitey Houston" and asked for a boycott. They said he had led a protest outside of one of her hotel rooms around this time. I was surprised by this, as I had never heard this story prior to seeing the documentary.
    Yes! I want to see some proof of this ever happening. Not only is this the first time i'm hearing/reading about it. So far, all I have ever read is a say-so, second-hand information. Even when I search the web, I don't see any video footage of any such protest, or his calling her "Whitey Houston". We also have to remember that there are a LOT of Al Sharpton haters out there because of his involvement in the Tawana Brawley case.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    And, there were a lot of Black heavy metal bands in the late 60s and early 70s that got nowhere because labels wouldn't sign them. Remember the band Mother's Finest? RCA, believe it or not, allowed them to record metal. But, when they signed to Epic Records in the mid-70s, they were forced to go in an R&B direction because the label said no one would accept a Black rock band.
    I bought two of Mother's Finest albums when i was in high school.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    Soulster, the video link you referenced in your post is from Whitney's 2010 UK/European Nothing But Love Tour. The incident that is being referenced (Whitney being booed at the Soul Train Awards) took place in 1989. The new documentary covers both the subject of the Soul Train Awards and Rev. Al Sharpton. She was booed at the awards show when they were presenting the nominees for an award, and her name was announced as a nominee while they played a clip from her video, "Where Do Broken Hearts Go". They said that the audience had turned on her for being 'too white'. They go into further detail of the impact that event had on Whitney. It was also the same night that she met Bobby Brown.

    As for Rev. Al Sharpton, they also discuss his protesting of Whitney's music in the late 80's and said he called her "Whitey Houston" and asked for a boycott. They said he had led a protest outside of one of her hotel rooms around this time. I was surprised by this, as I had never heard this story prior to seeing the documentary.
    Carlo, I bet Rev. Al has never heard this story either. I am going to make sure that he does.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Ah! Well, she still sounded horrible at that concert! That's what drugs, drinking, and alcohol will do to you.



    Yeah, I got that.



    And, that's the thing of it right there: what if any of those teenage or early twenty-something 90s R&B singers had done the song? Then what? No one criticized them for doing that same type of material.



    Oh, i'm sure it did! Whitney had been well sheltered and handled at that point. She probably had no idea how a lot of Black folk felt about her. I also find it interesting how Soul Train gave her the award in the midst of these criticisms.



    Yes! I want to see some proof of this ever happening. Not only is this the first time i'm hearing/reading about it. So far, all I have ever read is a say-so, second-hand information. Even when I search the web, I don't see any video footage of any such protest, or his calling her "Whitey Houston". We also have to remember that there are a LOT of Al Sharpton haters out there because of his involvement in the Tawana Brawley case.

    Exactly. Reverend Al Sharpton spoke at Whitney's funeral and played a role similar to a narrator for the service locally in New York on NBC Channel 4. I do not believe he ever boycotted her. How was it kept a secret for this long?

  17. #17
    If you go to Youtube and type in Al Sharpton Whitney Houston, a number of videos come up of Rev. Sharpton either praying for or praising Whitney.

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Yup. Unless anyone can come up with some hard evidence...HARD PROOF Al Sharpton EVER influenced a boycott of Whitney Houston, or called her "Whitey" Houston, i'll believe it. Until, and unless that happens, I don't believe it.

    I believe that a small boycott took place somewhere, and someone called her "Whitey", but i'm sure it wasn't Al Sharpton. It all smells like a smear campaign against one of both of them. It's probably by the same people who smeared Bobby Brown for marrying her.

    I did some checking on Snopes.com. There is nothing...absolutely NOTHING about any boycott, or Al Sharpton calling her "Whitey". Again, I highly suspect a smear campaign that no one has ever bothered to actually investigate. This also tells me that this new documentary has some questionable information. In that light, maybe the sex abuse thing is also a hoax, too.

    Oh, and BTW, I dug up that 1988 Soul Train performance. I don't hear a single "boo" in the audience. In fact, the crowd in the front was swaying to the music.
    Check it out for yourself:
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eoo5

    I'm going to call this a hoax. Like I said, there are a lot of people who don't like Al Sharpton, particularly a lot of right-wing Whites.
    Last edited by soulster; 07-13-2018 at 03:57 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post

    Oh, and BTW, I dug up that 1988 Soul Train performance. I don't hear a single "boo" in the audience. In fact, the crowd in the front was swaying to the music.
    Check it out for yourself:
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eoo5
    This clip is from the first Soul Train Awards, in 1987. She performed but was not booed. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eoo5

    She was booed during the 1989 ceremony, when her video was shown as one of the nominees. She didn't perform that year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CzQkRJxoXo

    The clip quality isn't the greatest. But you can hear some boos when her video was shown. And regardless of what happened, it has been mentioned many times that the incident was very troubling to Whitney, as were other attacks on her sound. It is probably not so coincidental that her next cd, I'M YOUR BABY TONIGHT, had more of an r&b slant than her earlier ones.

    Re Sharpton, I never heard about his calling her "Whitey Houston" until this new film. They showed a flyer from some march he supposedly started, and one of her brothers mentioned that he and a group were protesting outside of Whitney's hotel. I did a Google search and have yet to find that flyer or any news that Sharpton did such a thing, other than in this film.
    Last edited by reese; 07-13-2018 at 09:04 AM.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    This clip is from the first Soul Train Awards, in 1987. She performed but was not booed. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eoo5

    She was booed during the 1989 ceremony, when her video was shown as one of the nominees. She didn't perform that year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CzQkRJxoXo

    The clip quality isn't the greatest. But you can hear some boos when her video was shown. And regardless of what happened, it has been mentioned many times that the incident was very troubling to Whitney, as were other attacks on her sound. It is probably not so coincidental that her next cd, I'M YOUR BABY TONIGHT, had more of an r&b slant than her earlier ones.

    Re Sharpton, I never heard about his calling her "Whitey Houston" until this new film. They showed a flyer from some march he supposedly started, and one of her brothers mentioned that he and a group were protesting outside of Whitney's hotel. I did a Google search and have yet to find that flyer or any news that Sharpton did such a thing, other than in this film.
    This is going to become an issue once Rev. Sharpton hears about it and see's the film.

  22. #22
    It's real simple, folks. Sharpton is NOT a musician. Sharpton DOES have a cable news show (once had a "talk show" in a barber shop). And, most importantly, Sharpton will forever be linked to Tawana Brawley. See a pattern here?

    In other words, he should talk! I'm just sayin'.��

  23. #23
    I've not heard that either,and it would be very sad if he did make that statement,ever since Blacks have been performing in this country..Minstrel times until today there has been the question of-Who's Black enough which is just stupid,everyone has their own sound and style and should be accepted on it-I love the music of-Nat Cole as much as I love James Brown...and it's sad when we as Blacks condemn our own because they aren't...BLACK ENOUGH-excuse my french but-WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN??

  24. #24
    You never hear someone say, 'He/She's not white enough'? Things that make you go hmmmmm.

  25. #25
    The institution of slavery did some very strange things to us psychologically.

  26. #26
    Wrong. Happens all the time in the organizational setting from both whites and blacks. “That’s right, you like all those black people anyway?” “You have mostly a black staff, you trying to be black?”. “Why do you take your clients to so many soul concerts?”. (Because they asked me to dumb ass). Then blacks were accused of selling out when promoted into Mgmt roles that were historically held by whites. Good grief it was like nobody can understand that people sb hired based on their KSA’s regardless of ethnicity, gender or age. This compartmentalizing of who is black or white enough drives me crazy and is really fk up. You are not white enough bc your work and social life involves non-whites. WTF gives!
    However, observing young college kids hanging together in diverse groups these days, I hope things will change.

    (I have strep throat w a 101 fever so the above is somewhat disjointed. But this subject aggravates this xxxx outta me.)

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    The institution of slavery did some very strange things to us psychologically.
    Yes, research asserts that black males’ still experience low levels of self esteem and self efficacy resulting from slave owners doing everything they could to reduce their self-worth.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by nativeNY63 View Post
    You never hear someone say, 'He/She's not white enough'? Things that make you go hmmmmm.
    Some did that to Eminem. They called him a "Wigger"? I will be blunt. There are lot of messed up people in this country and they like it!

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Some did that to Eminem. They called him a "Wigger"? I will be blunt. There are lot of messed up people in this country and they like it!
    Labels suck don’t they?

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by detmotownguy View Post
    Labels suck don’t they?
    They do ,but what really sucks is that there are some people that revel in them! Being a part of a "group" gives their lives meaningful in some strange way.
    Last edited by marv2; 07-02-2019 at 10:13 PM.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    I never ever heard of this until just now. Wait 'till I Google this...

    OK: first, here's the reason she was booed off the award show:



    She sounded like shit!

    Now: What a twisted, racist world we live in! Black people want equality and not to be judged on the basis of race and culture, yet we condemn and ostracize those whom do not conform to a narrowly defined Afrocentric view and lifestyle.

    Black artists have always been taken to task by Blacks (and some Whites) for not being "black enough". Whitney Houston wasn't anything new, this had been happening since people tried to make Blacks palatable for "proper White folk". There have been many. Among them are: Johnny Mathis, Sammy Davis Jr., Lou Rawls, The Supremes, Jimi Hendrix, Louis Armstrong, Lionel Hampton, Dianne Carroll, Bill Cosby, and Whitney Houston. hell! What do you think Motown's Maxine Powell's etiquette school was all about?

    It's part of a continuing question that Blacks have to ask themselves and each other: what does it mean to be Black? Do you have to walk, talk, sing, and act a certain way to be accepted as Black? How Black do you want Blacks to be? Black? Violet-Black? Blue-Black? Deep super-duper Black? Black people in America fought hard to stop Whites from doing that to us, and then we do it to ourselves??? And, Black people who don't "fit the profile" feel it all the time! I know I do, so I can relate to this. I remember some years ago, a forum member criticized me because I didn't know the "Black National Anthem". What? Is that some kind of requirement? My Black family, nor I, ever got the memo.

    Why do people, both White and Black, still think of Black people being some monolithic group of people? Are Black people not allowed to be individuals and think for ourselves? Are we not allowed to enjoy Whitney's music after that first album? Can I not enjoy AC/DC or Carpenters music? And, how about this: why do we think that White people are so clean and pure that they have to be presented with a squeaky-clean image of Black people? (Well, maybe they do over at the Fox news channel.) Last time I checked, plenty of White people love Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, NWA, 2-Live Crew, and others. I remember when an awful lot of Whites were literally scared of NWA and other gangsta rappers, and a lot of others loved them.

    Many Black singers struggles with being accepted by those of their own race. Jimi Hendrix disbanded The Experience because he was criticized for being "too White". Prince recorded the "Black Album" because he was criticized for being "too White". I'm sure Michael Jackson even felt the sting of this type of criticism. And, now there is strong evidence that Whitney felt the same. Why do we do this to ourselves and each other? Just because a Black person doesn't fit someone else's narrow definition of Blackness? What is "sounding White"? What is "sounding Black"?

    I looked around and have yet to find any evidence of Al Sharpton calling her "Whitey Houston" and calling for a boycott of her records. Perhaps someone can provide credible evidence of this.

    Meanwhile, here are a couple of links I came up with:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0bb2d08720ecd

    http://gawker.com/remember-when-whit...o-w-1660783143


    Oh, and one more thing: this forum covered this exact, same issue before.
    Black writers of the past also faced that discussion of not being black enough. I remember taking a college class about the Harlem Renaissance and the book we had to study talked about that happening to Langston Hughes I believe. I say be who you are which is an individual. You could make a point of today's singers trying to have the same Hip Hop/R&B sound. Individuals and groups of all nationalities striving for the same style of singing. Be yourself.
    Last edited by mr_june; 07-01-2019 at 02:03 PM.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_june View Post
    Black writers of the past also faced that discussion of not being black enough. I remember taking a college class about the Harlem Renaissance and the book we had to study talked about that happening to Langston Hughes I believe. I say be who you are which is an individual. You could make a point of today's singers trying to have the same Hip Hop/R&B sound. Individuals and groups of all nationalities striving for the same style of singing. Be yourself.
    I like what you said very much. Personally I think I appreciate, in regards to music, those that go out there and do not care what other people think and just sing their song(s). For instance, when Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones were getting it together way back in the early sixties, people were saying they'rer ugly, not as sophisticated as the Beatles, Mick danced funny or couldn't dance.....HA! They have outlasted them all! Mick just had heart surgery and at 75 years old, is up and dancing again like he was 20!
    Last edited by marv2; 07-02-2019 at 07:56 AM.

  33. #33
    It's all crazy. I remember when people used to say Bryant Gumbel tried to "sound white". I never understood the motivation for saying it. Forget the fact that he had a white parent for a second, which opens the door to ask what being "black" in America really means. What they were really saying is that he didn't sound black, as if you needed to speak some variation of ebonics to have credibility. He got kicked around for years and it made no sense. Why did they feel he needed to sound the way they spoke? Would they take him serious in his role if he did?

    They didn't go to school for communications or public speaking and spend years building a career in news reporting. He made it to the top of his profession and was one of the best to ever do it and low-minded jealous people turned away from him to watch white anchors do the same thing. All while sounding "white". Screw them. Of course, now they jump on Tiger Woods for speaking through his nose, even though there are plenty of other reasons for peoples of color to take issue with him.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    It's all crazy. I remember when people used to say Bryant Gumbel tried to "sound white". I never understood the motivation for saying it. Forget the fact that he had a white parent for a second, which opens the door to ask what being "black" in America really means. What they were really saying is that he didn't sound black, as if you needed to speak some variation of ebonics to have credibility. He got kicked around for years and it made no sense. Why did they feel he needed to sound the way they spoke? Would they take him serious in his role if he did?

    They didn't go to school for communications or public speaking and spend years building a career in news reporting. He made it to the top of his profession and was one of the best to ever do it and low-minded jealous people turned away from him to watch white anchors do the same thing. All while sounding "white". Screw them. Of course, now they jump on Tiger Woods for speaking through his nose, even though there are plenty of other reasons for peoples of color to take issue with him.
    I never knew Bryant Gumbel was biracial until now. That is mainly because it never mattered to me.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I never knew Bryant Gumbel was biracial until now. That is mainly because it never mattered to me.
    It doesn't matter. Most black/African-American people are of mixed heritage. it doesn't matter if you're mixed in the last generation or three or four before, almost none of us can trace both sides of our bloodlines to Africa. People don't want to believe that the one drop rule still applies, but it does because race is not determined by the individual but by outside forces. Try to tell the person who just judged you on your yellow skin, thick nose and kinky hair that you're "bi-racial" and he'll nod and throw your job application in the trash anyway. It's ridiculous.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    It doesn't matter. Most black/African-American people are of mixed heritage. it doesn't matter if you're mixed in the last generation or three or four before, almost none of us can trace both sides of our bloodlines to Africa. People don't want to believe that the one drop rule still applies, but it does because race is not determined by the individual but by outside forces. Try to tell the person who just judged you on your yellow skin, thick nose and kinky hair that you're "bi-racial" and he'll nod and throw your job application in the trash anyway. It's ridiculous.
    Understood! On the other side of the coin, there not as many "pure white people" out there today either. Many don't even know that they have African blood.

  37. #37
    A case in point:


  38. #38
    It's all african blood...didn't life start in africa?

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Understood! On the other side of the coin, there not as many "pure white people" out there today either. Many don't even know that they have African blood.
    One of my favorite episodes of any show was the Jeffersons episode where George was the only one who knew CPR when a white supremacist had a heart attack while giving a rally in their apartment building. Of course, George hated doing it. Especially when they carried the bastard out on a gurney and his son told him that George saved his life. He looked at George for a few seconds and said to his son "You should have let me die". Powerful. And absolutely representative of how much some of them hate us.

    And before anybody takes offense and flashes a few headlines out of Chicago, yeah, the effects of slavery have carried for generations and the self-hatred felt by some of the descendants of slaves has translated in hate for their own.

  40. #40
    Preach jerry,preach!

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    One of my favorite episodes of any show was the Jeffersons episode where George was the only one who knew CPR when a white supremacist had a heart attack while giving a rally in their apartment building. Of course, George hated doing it. Especially when they carried the bastard out on a gurney and his son told him that George saved his life. He looked at George for a few seconds and said to his son "You should have let me die". Powerful. And absolutely representative of how much some of them hate us.

    And before anybody takes offense and flashes a few headlines out of Chicago, yeah, the effects of slavery have carried for generations and the self-hatred felt by some of the descendants of slaves has translated in hate for their own.
    I remember that Jerry. I never understood that kind of hate. I worked for a company that I had built a brand new market for, made millions for them and yet the local manager hated me because I was black! I later learned that she would refer to me and the only other black employee in the office, a woman as "monkeys" behind our backs. Said in front of white employees. Little did she know that not everyone felt the way that she did, so when the shit hit the fan, some of those same white employees spoke up! Racism puts everyone that is not racist in a very strange and uncomfortable situation.
    Last edited by marv2; 07-03-2019 at 07:39 PM.

  42. #42
    And thanks to the nut in the white house,they're crawling out like roaches.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    And thanks to the nut in the white house,they're crawling out like roaches.
    Some are even proud of it now JAI. Amazing.

  44. #44
    Sad,like the old nutcase who i heard say-after 150yrs you'd think that[negroes]could speak better english,this was at a public place after something was said over a speaker system..i was gonna bring up[andrew johnson and reconstruction]but it would'vd been futile,this racist was real old so i just shook my head and walked away.

  45. #45
    Once in high school band practice, a kid I was otherwise cool with casually asked me, "So who's the honky in your family?" (Guess I wasn't Black enough for him.) When I told my dad about it, he said, "Next time, tell him, 'Your mama.'"

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by sansradio View Post
    Once in high school band practice, a kid I was otherwise cool with casually asked me, "So who's the honky in your family?" (Guess I wasn't Black enough for him.) When I told my dad about it, he said, "Next time, tell him, 'Your mama.'"
    Now that would have been a good one! It took me until I was an adult and then some to finally understand that racism is taught! One quick example. When I was 9 years old and in the 4th Grade, I and all 4 Graders from my home school were bused out to different schools around the city due to overcrowding. I ended up at a majority white school in the far north end near Lake Erie. Any way. I got along with all the kids in my class and became friends with several who invited me to their houses for lunch that year. Oh we'd play, laugh etc,etc. We gave each other Christmas gifts and everything.

    That was in 1969-70. Fast forward to 1976 and I was a Sophomore at my neighborhood high school and played on the JV basketball team. We had a game away at the high school where all of my 4th Grade white buddies attended. A couple were on their JV team we played against. After the game was over and before our team left their school, I went up to a bunch of them to say hello, because I was very happy to see them after several years. It was a group of about 8 of them, girls and guys that I had known in the 4th Grade. They just looked at me strangely, did not speak to me and got up and walked in the opposite direction. I stood there for a moment and kinda laughed it off to myself, but it really bothered me that they acted like that. We were all now 15 and 16 and they would not give me the time of day. Years later I still remember that day and that is when I learned that they were taught to not associate with black people!
    Last edited by marv2; 07-03-2019 at 10:42 AM.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Now that would have been a good one! It took me until I was an adult and then some to finally understand that racism is taught! One quick example. When I was 9 years old and in the 4th Grade, I and all 4 Graders from my home school were bused out to different schools around the city due to overcrowding. I ended up at a majority white school in the far north end near Lake Erie. Any way. I got along with all the kids in my class and became friends with several who invited me to their houses for lunch that year. Oh we'd play, laugh etc,etc. We gave each other Christmas gifts and everything.

    That was in 1969-70. Fast forward to 1976 and I was a Sophomore at my neighborhood high school and played on the JV basketball team. We had a game away at the high school were all of my 4th Grade white buddies attended. A couple were on their JV team we played against. After the game was over and before our team left their school, I went up to a bunch of them to say hello, because I was very happy to see them after several years. It was group of about 8 of them girls and guys that I had known in the 4th Grade. They just looked at me strangely, did not speak to me and got up and walked in the opposite direction. I stood there for a moment and kinda laughed it off to myself, but it really bothered me that they acted like that. We were all now 15 and 16 and they would not give me the time of day. Years later I still remember that day and that is when I learned that they were taught to not associate with black people!
    Damn. Ain't that nothin'?

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by sansradio View Post
    Damn. Ain't that nothin'?
    It really was a big deal. I have a good memory and seem to remember most people that have been a part of my life at any point good or bad. One day in 2012, I was looking at our hometown paper on the internet and saw the obit for the wife of one of those old 4th Grade buddies. The one I was best friends with , so I thought. I wasn't local at the time,but I wonder if I would have went to pay my respects. I did not know her, but I did know him.

  49. #49
    That story hurt my soul. It's amazing that none of those racists seems to care whether the blood they get in a transfusion came from a black donor or not. Pretty sure they wouldn't turn down a donated organ from one of us either. On the other hand, if you tried to give me monkey blood or organs, I'd get off of my sick bed to kick your ***. Tells me that when the rubber hits the road, that hate is just for the sake of hating, not because they think anybody is really different from anyone else.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    That story hurt my soul. It's amazing that none of those racists seems to care whether the blood they get in a transfusion came from a black donor or not. Pretty sure they wouldn't turn down a donated organ from one of us either. On the other hand, if you tried to give me monkey blood or organs, I'd get off of my sick bed to kick your ***. Tells me that when the rubber hits the road, that hate is just for the sake of hating, not because they think anybody is really different from anyone else.
    Which story Jerry?

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