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  1. #1
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    RE: Question about certain photo shoot

    Hi - what does anyone know about this particular photo shoot? Where/when was it? And what was up with Diana's face? Did she have dental surgery or something? No shade but I've just never seen her look like this in any other photos, as if her cheeks are oddly swollen or something...

    [[larger sizes here):
    https://imgur.com/a/RwK9BQN

    Thanks in advance...
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    Last edited by ejluther; 06-17-2018 at 06:29 PM.

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    Can't answer any of your questions, but I'm curious about the album itself! Is this another case of bootleg "fan fiction"?

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    Bad lighting. Or p'shopped. Usually dental surgery is not done on both sides in one session. Not to mention the other 2 don't look so great either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sansradio View Post
    Can't answer any of your questions, but I'm curious about the album itself! Is this another case of bootleg "fan fiction"?
    Yup - an especially nice looking one, too...

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    I think these photos were taken in the Vegas desert during Flo's last engagement with the group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ejluther View Post
    Yup - an especially nice looking one, too...
    For real! Thanks.

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    Looks like bad lightning.

    And yeah I think those are the Vegas photos during Flo's last days with the group.

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    It’s definitely Flo’s last weeks per her size, hair and make up. Diana does look like she’s got swelling and this might have been when she had that missing upper molar replaced. They could have corrected the bulge if they were going to use the shots. This may very well be their last photo shoot.

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    Mary confirmed to me this was their last photo shoot. Florence was fired a few days later.

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    When did they arrive to Vegas for the June-July shows?

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    Thanks for the info - I thought it was near the end of Flo's time with the group but didn't realize it was the last one together...still makes me sad...

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    It was the last photo shoot, but their last photos taken together were during Flo's birthday party the night before she was fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    It was the last photo shoot, but their last photos taken together were during Flo's birthday party the night before she was fired.
    Thanks - I'm sure I've seen those but does anyone have any links?

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    Has anyone from the inside ever confirmed that Flo's last show with the group was July 1st? I've seen a review of the Vegas show that was dated July 16 that mentioned Florence. I would think by then it would have been Cindy performing those shows if Flo was out by the beginning of the month. Unless the reviewer thought it was Flo being that her departure was kept very secretive at first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    Has anyone from the inside ever confirmed that Flo's last show with the group was July 1st? I've seen a review of the Vegas show that was dated July 16 that mentioned Florence. I would think by then it would have been Cindy performing those shows if Flo was out by the beginning of the month. Unless the reviewer thought it was Flo being that her departure was kept very secretive at first.
    more than likely he thought Flo was still there.

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    http://www.mcrfb.com/?p=14950. One book has quoted Flo commenting to Berry that he had done it, that is ..the marquee read Diana Ross and the Supremes[[ or the like)...and that was night she was fired ,according to this article that was July 20.
    Last edited by luke; 06-18-2018 at 06:10 PM.

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    When Flo was ousted, didn't Motown PR put out a press release that Flo was "taking a break"? I wonder how long it was after that that they said Flo had left them [[when it was the other way around; they kicked her out)?

  18. #18
    This has to be a bootleg/fanfic album. I can't find it. And, I got my hopes up. LOL

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    Yes, this is a bootleg done by the guy ion Germany [[I think). He also has a new one that is stricly Diana Ross. If I remember correctly, a lot of the songs on this one are from TV shows.

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    Yes midnightman. And in an interview Diana said Flo was starting a business and they would all be continuing with outside projects[[her, Flo, Cindy and Mary)...one big happy family, as well as being Supremes. I think it just gradually stopped being discussed.

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    Wasn't it also mentioned somewhere that Flo left the group to handle with antiques?
    LOL A lot of sh** was written in those days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    When Flo was ousted, didn't Motown PR put out a press release that Flo was "taking a break"? I wonder how long it was after that that they said Flo had left them [[when it was the other way around; they kicked her out)?
    I think that was their way of covering their asses in case they had to bring Florence back in the event that Cindy ended up not working out. I've always maintained that the initial firing of Flo in April would've been a done deal if the situation with Cindy's contract with her other group and label hadn't come up. That was the only reason Flo was allowed back in. I also think Flo would've ultimately been allowed to stay if she had decided to go along with the program once she was back, which always begs the question of what would Gordy have done with Cindy if Flo hadn't given him another reason to fire her?

    But anyway, had Cindy stepped into Flo's shoes that July and turned out to be someone who just wasn't going to cut it, Gordy and company would've been in a sticky situation because the Supremes was the big money bag. They would've had to go back to Florence and ask her to return and only hope that she would agree [[with some terms hopefully) and they would've then been able to spin Cindy as having relieved Florence while she took a break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvinDK View Post
    Wasn't it also mentioned somewhere that Flo left the group to handle with antiques?
    LOL A lot of sh** was written in those days.
    Yeah, Diana said that in a magazine. Because the antiques line seems so out of left field, I've always wondered if it had some roots in truth. Maybe Flo was a lover of antiques and had spoken about doing something like that in her spare time or something. Obviously that's not why she left the group, but in those days people weren't going to tell all the nitty gritty details. It would've made everybody involved look bad, including Flo. So different from today's way of doing things in the world of entertainment. Had the Supremes been going through it today, Diana and Flo would've been going back and forth on twitter and Instagram. Gordy too. Other folks at Motown would've been taking sides, posting crazy shit on the gram.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yeah, Diana said that in a magazine. Because the antiques line seems so out of left field, I've always wondered if it had some roots in truth. Maybe Flo was a lover of antiques and had spoken about doing something like that in her spare time or something. Obviously that's not why she left the group, but in those days people weren't going to tell all the nitty gritty details. It would've made everybody involved look bad, including Flo. So different from today's way of doing things in the world of entertainment. Had the Supremes been going through it today, Diana and Flo would've been going back and forth on twitter and Instagram. Gordy too. Other folks at Motown would've been taking sides, posting crazy shit on the gram.
    I'm glad social media wasn't around in those days. Today I feel some of these celebrities really need guidance on when to share their opinions.

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    Do not forget Flo was very popular with the fans and many entertainment people. Motown was also hedging their bets depending on any uproar.

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    I seem to recall reading something on the decor of Flo's house; lots of marble and glass, chandeliers and statues and things hung from chains. Maybe she was into antiques?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I'm glad social media wasn't around in those days. Today I feel some of these celebrities really need guidance on when to share their opinions.
    It's really sickening some of the stuff the celebrities put on social media. The ones that drive me the most crazy is the baby mama/daddy drama. I always feel so bad for the children because this shit about their parents is going to be out there forever. No kid deserves to know every dirty detail about their parents' relationship. But folks would rather get social media attention than do what's best for their children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I seem to recall reading something on the decor of Flo's house; lots of marble and glass, chandeliers and statues and things hung from chains. Maybe she was into antiques?
    Sure did. It's possible that was an interest of hers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Yeah, Diana said that in a magazine. Because the antiques line seems so out of left field, I've always wondered if it had some roots in truth. Maybe Flo was a lover of antiques and had spoken about doing something like that in her spare time or something. Obviously that's not why she left the group, but in those days people weren't going to tell all the nitty gritty details. It would've made everybody involved look bad, including Flo. So different from today's way of doing things in the world of entertainment. Had the Supremes been going through it today, Diana and Flo would've been going back and forth on twitter and Instagram. Gordy too. Other folks at Motown would've been taking sides, posting crazy shit on the gram.
    "posting crazy shit on the gram"

    that sounds worse than it is

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    She indeed fancied antiques, as I know.

    But I think it was a little awkward to say she would leave the group to handle with antiques...

    Yes it seems like she had some placed in her living room.
    Here is a picture:

    https://goo.gl/images/TV4A8y

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    It's really sickening some of the stuff the celebrities put on social media. The ones that drive me the most crazy is the baby mama/daddy drama. I always feel so bad for the children because this shit about their parents is going to be out there forever. No kid deserves to know every dirty detail about their parents' relationship. But folks would rather get social media attention than do what's best for their children.
    I don't wanna imagine the Supremes and Gordy going through drama online... some stuff you are thankful for because it existed in a different time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    "posting crazy shit on the gram"

    that sounds worse than it is
    I don't know Tom. Some pretty wild shit gets posted there.

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    These photos are particularly sad. As grainy as they are, it is quite obvious how miserable Florence is. There's a clearer photo from this shoot printed in the booklet of the 'Pink' box set that shows Diana and Mary with their trademark smiles, and Florence isn't even attempting to fake it. Even if Florence had been allowed to stay, I don't think Florence would have ever gotten any happier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post

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    I was thinking what a perfect look for promoting their appearances at the Flamingo, but actually at this point they were at The Frontier?

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    I can see why this photo wasn't used, look carefully at Diana's dress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    I was thinking what a perfect look for promoting their appearances at the Flamingo, but actually at this point they were at The Frontier?
    They were at the Flamingo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rod_rick View Post
    I can see why this photo wasn't used, look carefully at Diana's dress.
    They probably could have airbrushed any imperfections, but since Flo was soon gone, there was no need.

    I didn't see any of these until one black and white shot showed up in their 1986 25TH ANNIVERSARY album booklet. Since then, a few more have recently come out.

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    1 - Is Diana giving the finger?

    2 - Is Flo giving a little nipple?

    3 - I'm not familiar with these dresses. Were they ever worn again? And are those sheer capes over the dresses or just one piece?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    3 - I'm not familiar with these dresses. Were they ever worn again? And are those sheer capes over the dresses or just one piece?
    It was one piece. They wore them several times with Florence. I believe they were worn with Cindy too as I have seen a photo of Mary backstage wearing the gown sometime in summer / late 1967. They weren't worn after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antceleb12 View Post
    These photos are particularly sad. As grainy as they are, it is quite obvious how miserable Florence is. There's a clearer photo from this shoot printed in the booklet of the 'Pink' box set that shows Diana and Mary with their trademark smiles, and Florence isn't even attempting to fake it. Even if Florence had been allowed to stay, I don't think Florence would have ever gotten any happier.
    Flo had mental issues she needed to work out and she needed treatment for alcoholism, which developed from her need to cope with her issues. But she would've gone a long way toward happy if Gordy had created a work environment that wasn't tense, combative, and abusive. Had Gordy had some kind of wake up call and decided to change the methods of his strategy in order to foster a great working relationship not only between the girls but between himself and the girls, I think Florence staying would've worked. But Gordy liked controlling women and apparently had a cruel streak so there's probably no chance any of that would've happened. The only chance the Supremes had of staying together was the three of them banding together and that wasn't going to happen at that point. Diana was self centered and mostly only concerned with her own dreams and getting there. Any moment she might have of solidarity with Flo and Mary would disappear the minute Gordy dangled wealth and fame in her face. Mary had proven herself to be someone who lacked the balls [[or ovaries as the case may be) to follow through on any plans she might make with Flo to take some control back regarding their futures, and would often leave Florence holding the complaint bag all by herself. And Flo lacked the control and rational thought to deal with the problem at all. Gordy knew all of this and he knew he had them licked. Toe the line or get out. Those girls never stood a chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    1 - Is Diana giving the finger?

    2 - Is Flo giving a little nipple?

    3 - I'm not familiar with these dresses. Were they ever worn again? And are those sheer capes over the dresses or just one piece?
    1.) NAH lol
    2.) Looks like it. Can't tell.
    3.) IDK, but this looks like something only the original three would wear. After Flo left, they went the MORE extravagant route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rod_rick View Post
    I can see why this photo wasn't used, look carefully at Diana's dress.
    Yeah I looked at it too. She was starting to look like Karen Carpenter was looking. Think this was around the time Diana was suffering from anorexia nervosa. YIKES!

    The Supremes' personal drama was deeper than one could read from the books, I think. I know Diana probably looks at pics from that era and just go "what was wrong with me?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Flo had mental issues she needed to work out and she needed treatment for alcoholism, which developed from her need to cope with her issues. But she would've gone a long way toward happy if Gordy had created a work environment that wasn't tense, combative, and abusive. Had Gordy had some kind of wake up call and decided to change the methods of his strategy in order to foster a great working relationship not only between the girls but between himself and the girls, I think Florence staying would've worked. But Gordy liked controlling women and apparently had a cruel streak so there's probably no chance any of that would've happened. The only chance the Supremes had of staying together was the three of them banding together and that wasn't going to happen at that point. Diana was self centered and mostly only concerned with her own dreams and getting there. Any moment she might have of solidarity with Flo and Mary would disappear the minute Gordy dangled wealth and fame in her face. Mary had proven herself to be someone who lacked the balls [[or ovaries as the case may be) to follow through on any plans she might make with Flo to take some control back regarding their futures, and would often leave Florence holding the complaint bag all by herself. And Flo lacked the control and rational thought to deal with the problem at all. Gordy knew all of this and he knew he had them licked. Toe the line or get out. Those girls never stood a chance.
    Basically. Berry Gordy definitely took advantage of, IMHO, three VERY naive young women. Also we have to remember they were 16, 17 years old when they got with Motown in the first place. Easy to mold kids that young than if they were in their mid-20s.

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    In Flo's own words: He always told me he wished he [[Berry) could control me and if he couldn't control me then he didn't want me around.

    Yeah Diana looks frighteningly thin in those pictures. You have to wonder did they start wearing those oversized chiffon gowns to hide Flo's weight or Diana's? This was a very bad time for all three and you can hear how exhausted they were in the May '67 Copa recordings.

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    ^ They truly were exhausted. BG worked those women nearly to DEATH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Flo had mental issues she needed to work out and she needed treatment for alcoholism, which developed from her need to cope with her issues. But she would've gone a long way toward happy if Gordy had created a work environment that wasn't tense, combative, and abusive. Had Gordy had some kind of wake up call and decided to change the methods of his strategy in order to foster a great working relationship not only between the girls but between himself and the girls, I think Florence staying would've worked. But Gordy liked controlling women and apparently had a cruel streak so there's probably no chance any of that would've happened. The only chance the Supremes had of staying together was the three of them banding together and that wasn't going to happen at that point. Diana was self centered and mostly only concerned with her own dreams and getting there. Any moment she might have of solidarity with Flo and Mary would disappear the minute Gordy dangled wealth and fame in her face. Mary had proven herself to be someone who lacked the balls [[or ovaries as the case may be) to follow through on any plans she might make with Flo to take some control back regarding their futures, and would often leave Florence holding the complaint bag all by herself. And Flo lacked the control and rational thought to deal with the problem at all. Gordy knew all of this and he knew he had them licked. Toe the line or get out. Those girls never stood a chance.
    RanRan79, my question is not a retaliatory response to your assertion that Gordy should have created a work environment that wasn't tense, combative, and abusive. What steps should he have taken knowing that Florence was about to go "Down for the Third Time?" We know the Supremes could and should not have gone on hiatus for a while due to commitments and what the media might publish about them while they were 'absent.' So I ask you, and other forum members, what could have done to make the environment more manageable for Florence? Was there something that might have been tried like at the beginning of 1967 or was that too late?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobucats View Post
    RanRan79, my question is not a retaliatory response to your assertion that Gordy should have created a work environment that wasn't tense, combative, and abusive. What steps should he have taken knowing that Florence was about to go "Down for the Third Time?" We know the Supremes could and should not have gone on hiatus for a while due to commitments and what the media might publish about them while they were 'absent.' So I ask you, and other forum members, what could have done to make the environment more manageable for Florence? Was there something that might have been tried like at the beginning of 1967 or was that too late?
    I think common decency and respect would have gone a long way to healing that situation. Motown- and everyone involved- were involved in a business, and that's important for people to remember. However, just like any job, there is a such thing as a hostile working environment, and I believe Florence, Mary and some of the others, when they describe a working environment that was indeed hostile. The lack of respect was disgusting. Some of what Flo and others have described is just not something a decent human being does or says to another human being. Gordy was on some bullshit. However, I don't think there was ever a point for Florence that nothing could've changed things for her. I think had Gordy sat down with her- and maybe it should've only been the two of them- and listened to whatever it was that she vocalized that truly bothered her [[the lies about scheduled appearances, lack of lead singing work, not much time for rest, the name calling, the pitting the girls against each other, the attempts to diminish the popularity and visibility of anyone not named Diana, etc) and if he showed some genuine care, I think the ship could've been routed. It was only too late once she was fired that second time. I think he was through with her and she was through with him at that point. But had Gordy sat down with Flo at any point before that last night and if he had a heart to really make some changes, I think Flo would've been okay.

    The one tough spot would've been the name change. Flo was very vocal about not liking that, and I don't blame her. Maybe had Gordy sat down with Flo and Mary and made them feel a part of all of his plans like he did with Diana, Flo would've been more willing to go along with everything, especially if he pushed the idea that once his exit strategy for Diana was complete, he could then move on to his plans for Florence and Mary. In other words, a great man would've found a way to make this thing work. Gordy lacked the skills [[and the desire, it appears) to be an effective leader and so he lost one of the components that made the Supremes a success. DRATS was a great act on it's own, but it was clear the act had lost something with Flo's exit.

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    so far we've seen 6 pics from this photo shoot. As for what happened to the gown, who knows. these are the only pics i've ever seen of it. i'm guessing it must have been newish around this time. don't know if they had them designed for the Vegas show or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Flo had mental issues she needed to work out and she needed treatment for alcoholism, which developed from her need to cope with her issues. But she would've gone a long way toward happy if Gordy had created a work environment that wasn't tense, combative, and abusive. Had Gordy had some kind of wake up call and decided to change the methods of his strategy in order to foster a great working relationship not only between the girls but between himself and the girls, I think Florence staying would've worked. But Gordy liked controlling women and apparently had a cruel streak so there's probably no chance any of that would've happened. The only chance the Supremes had of staying together was the three of them banding together and that wasn't going to happen at that point. Diana was self centered and mostly only concerned with her own dreams and getting there. Any moment she might have of solidarity with Flo and Mary would disappear the minute Gordy dangled wealth and fame in her face. Mary had proven herself to be someone who lacked the balls [[or ovaries as the case may be) to follow through on any plans she might make with Flo to take some control back regarding their futures, and would often leave Florence holding the complaint bag all by herself. And Flo lacked the control and rational thought to deal with the problem at all. Gordy knew all of this and he knew he had them licked. Toe the line or get out. Those girls never stood a chance.
    I think, for the most part, you are correct. At the expense of the women's personal physical and mental health, Gordy pushed the Supremes into international superstardom and made them a crossover act that appealed to people of all races.

    That being said, I do not believe that even if Gordy had made the environment a happier one - or kept it happier, as it was in the beginning - Florence would have stayed happy. Florence suffered from severe depression, from what we know, and depression doesn't rely on environmental circumstances. Gordy could have made Florence the lead singer and let her chose her own schedule and she still would have fallen apart. Florence needed therapy and likely medication, but depression wasn't recognized as a legitimate illness as much back then as it is now, and it certainly wasn't discussed [[look at Nina Simone). Rape was also certainly not a matter of public discussion, and the lack of treatment for both her depression and rape, I believe, contributed drastically toward Florence's downfall.

    It's a really touchy subject when people talk about how Florence should have "pulled herself up by her bootstraps" because she legitimately suffered from mental illness that went wildly untreated and was left to fester out of control. For as much flack as Mary gets for this, I believe Mary was acting with the correct intent for the telling Berry Florence did not want to be in the group anymore. Florence needed help that remaining in the Supremes could not provide.

    That being said, Berry is certainly not off the hook here. He exploited all three girls - Diana included - to DEATH. Berry achieved wondrous things with the crossover appeal, but at the great expense of the artists' personal lives and money. At the end of the day, none of the girls could walk away freely with their due money or rights to the group name. Motown treated the girls like property and Florence was just the first to crumble. She may have been the only one to succumb so young, but each Supreme had to pay a high price for their share of stardom.

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    as to what happened to these gowns, who knows. not sure when these came about but guessing either for the Flamingo or shortly before. There were several new gowns around this time. these and

    Attachment 14353

    and the yellow/pink chiffon from Happening on Ed Sullivan, the lavender chiffon, the blue sequin halter tops from Andy Williams, the satin "mandarin jacket" outfits - these were used during the introductions on Andy Williams and then in the photo shoot that they used for the blue halters

    Attachment 14354
    Attachment 14355
    Attachment 14356
    Attachment 14357

    when cindy came on these selected which gowns to continue with. here are the "flo" gowns that i know Cindy used

    Attachment 14360
    Attachment 14359
    Attachment 14361
    Attachment 14362
    Attachment 14363
    Attachment 14364
    Attachment 14365
    Attachment 14366
    Attachment 14367

    Cindy also wore the red sequins from the R&H Today special. but i don't have a pic on my computer of it.

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