Cindy Birdsong and Motown Records

**luke** · 06-05-2018, 11:20 AM

I can’t remember...was Cindy a 1/3 memeber of the Supremes[[from 1967 to 1969) or on salary at Motown? As she signed away her royalties I assume she was a full memeber of the Supremes. Had she been getting royalties for Love Child etc as Mary had? And splitting performance payments 1/3 in the 60s?I’m assuming she later was employed by Mary/Supremes inc. PS I assume she didnt get royalties from the Bluebelle years after Motown settled her contract with them/Atlantic Records.

**marv2** · 06-05-2018, 01:38 PM

I believe she was on salary when she was initially hired. After a certain time, she became a full member. Later on in the 70s she worked for Mary's Supreme, Inc.

**milven** · 06-06-2018, 08:08 AM

I never understood the setup of Mary's Supremes Inc. Were all the Seventies Supremes employed by that corperation? After Mary left the group, was the corperation dissolved? Was the corperation involved with Motown in any way other than recording for them? After Mary left, the corperation still had contractual obligations. Sherrie and Susaye did not fulfill those obligations. Were they no longer part of the corperation and now employed directly to Motown?

The way that my favorite group ended was always confusing to me. The farewell was out of their country, and Mary continued to perform under the Supremes' name with different singers after their farewell almost as if the Farewell never happened.

Everything good has to end and seeing the Supremes end was sad. But seeing it end like this, was sadder

**luke** · 06-06-2018, 03:31 PM

I believe Jean was paid a salary by Motown .Scherrie ended up suing Supremes inc. Mary was in a tough spot to fulfill contractual obligations and as far as I know only used the Official Supremes name briefly.

**BayouMotownMan** · 06-07-2018, 02:57 PM

When the group broke up it was a legal mess.

**sup_fan** · 06-07-2018, 03:32 PM

i don't believe Jean or Lynda had any connection to Supremes Inc. just guessing here but i think Mary set that up after they left and was probably done so because the group was continuing to travel and perform. My thought has always been Motown assumed the group would dissolve when J and L left and Mary got married. but it didn't. not sure when Mary's contract ended and was renewed around this point. But since motown wasn't doing anything for the group, mary set up the corporation in order to have a legal entity to work with promoters and all.

My thought is that Mary was able to somehow appeal to berry and his sentimental side and get the group resigned with scherrie. Motown dragged its feet enough that would have made it clear they had no real intentions. but maybe berry felt he owed her or something. again, just speculating

One thing that i've gathered is that mary is not really the most capable music manager. she's talented and a wonderful entertainer. but running a corporation and handling business decisions and strategy is not really her strong point IMO. so i'm not surprised that by mid 77 things were a mess with Supremes Inc

**marv2** · 06-07-2018, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

i don't believe Jean or Lynda had any connection to Supremes Inc. just guessing here but i think Mary set that up after they left and was probably done so because the group was continuing to travel and perform. My thought has always been Motown assumed the group would dissolve when J and L left and Mary got married. but it didn't. not sure when Mary's contract ended and was renewed around this point. But since motown wasn't doing anything for the group, mary set up the corporation in order to have a legal entity to work with promoters and all.

My thought is that Mary was able to somehow appeal to berry and his sentimental side and get the group resigned with scherrie. Motown dragged its feet enough that would have made it clear they had no real intentions. but maybe berry felt he owed her or something. again, just speculating

One thing that i've gathered is that mary is not really the most capable music manager. she's talented and a wonderful entertainer. but running a corporation and handling business decisions and strategy is not really her strong point IMO. so i'm not surprised that by mid 77 things were a mess with Supremes Inc

I'm not sure, but what was the mess that's being referred to? I remember lots, but I am not sure what the mess was.

**milven** · 06-07-2018, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

I'm not sure, but what was the mess that's being referred to? I remember lots, but I am not sure what the mess was.

The only thing that I would call a mess is how the group ended. Their Farewell Performance was almost on the down low, performed outside of the USA. And Mary left the group even though her corporation was still obligated to have a group of Supremes performing.

I just found an article that states some of what happened during this time. It states that the Farewell was originally supposed to be Mary's farewell from the group and that Sherrie and Susaye would continue the group with a new member. According to posts that I read herre by forumn members, that was supposedly stopped by either Berry, Diana or Mary or all of them.

Mary was supposed to start a solo career, but because the Supremes Inc were still had concert obligations and Susaye and Sherrie did not want to participate, Mary hired new girls and performed under various billings using the Supremes' name. The act was billed as Mary Wilson of the Supremes. The Supremes' Mary Wilson etc. Her solo career almost turned into another Supremes group even though at the time there still was a Motown legitimate group of Sherrie and Susaye recording and getting ready to continue.

I think the ending of the Supremes was kind of a mess and sad.

http://thesupremes.wikia.com/wiki/Ma...f_The_Supremes

**blackguy69** · 06-07-2018, 05:24 PM

I think Jan 73 Mary’s contract as a supreme was up and resigned may 1974

**marv2** · 06-07-2018, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by blackguy69

I think Jan 73 Mary’s contract as a supreme was up and resigned may 1974

I don't know because "Bad Weather" was not released until March of 1973. From there, they did a series of television appearances to promote it. For the fact that each Supreme signed a separate, individual contract with Motown, I wonder if the hold up for them was the signing of Scherrie Payne. Still they were not doing much recording in 74, but they were performing in concert that year.

**marv2** · 06-07-2018, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by milven

http://thesupremes.wikia.com/wiki/Ma...f_The_Supremes

I happy to see that someone kept track of that period in time even though it is not written with the most accuracy. Still it is apart of Motown and Supremes history.

**blackguy69** · 06-07-2018, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

I don't know because "Bad Weather" was not released until March of 1973. From there, they did a series of television appearances to promote it. For the fact that each Supreme signed a separate, individual contract with Motown, I wonder if the hold up for them was the signing of Scherrie Payne. Still they were not doing much recording in 74, but they were performing in concert that year.

follow suit. Mary signed her first contract on Jan 15, 1961. Then renewed it Jan 65 and again Jan 1969. Her contract was up Jan 1973 but didn’t renew until May 1974

**dvus7** · 06-09-2018, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

I believe she was on salary when she was initially hired. After a certain time, she became a full member. Later on in the 70s she worked for Mary's Supreme, Inc.

Cindy Birdsong never sung on any DRATS songs, but received royalties!!

**marv2** · 06-09-2018, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by dvus7

Cindy Birdsong never sung on any DRATS songs, but received royalties!!

I believe she sang on some album tracks and on most if not all of the recordings they did with the Temptations.

**bradsupremes** · 06-09-2018, 02:27 PM

I’m pretty sure in order to record, Scherrie, Cindy, Mary, and Susaye had to sign with Motown with individual contracts just like they had previously done going back to the 60’s. They also worked for Supremes, Inc. This is why people like Kaaren Raagland cannot claim she was a legitimate Supreme. I know the courts ruled in her favor, but if Motown owns the name “Supremes” and she was never signed to Motown, how could the courts rule in her favor? This is why Susaye calls herself “the last Supreme.” She was the last legitimate woman to be signed by Motown as a member of the group.

Even though Cindy was gone by early 1976, she was still contractually signed to Motown until 1977.

**bradsupremes** · 06-09-2018, 02:37 PM

Cindy isn’t on any DRATS A-side singles, but she’s present on every DRATS album. I think Cindy said at one time the first track she recorded with the group was “Then.”

**Circa 1824** · 06-09-2018, 03:16 PM

[QUOTE=This is why people like Kaaren Raagland cannot claim she was a legitimate Supreme. I know the courts ruled in her favor, but if Motown owns the name “Supremes” and she was never signed to Motown, how could the courts rule in her favor? This is why Susaye calls herself “the last Supreme.” She was the last legitimate woman to be signed by Motown as a member of the group.

The only names I knew as Supremes were Diana, Flo, Cindy, Jean, and mary. By the time the others came on board, I was no longer following the group, and thus had no knowledge of who they were.

**marv2** · 06-09-2018, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

Cindy isn’t on any DRATS A-side singles, but she’s present on every DRATS album. I think Cindy said at one time the first track she recorded with the group was “Then.”

Thank you Brad.