Paul Williams was do under used in the Temptations

[Eddy66]

Some of the songs they gave to David Ruffin to do lead could have gone to him.

[StuBass1]

Paul was my friend, a great guy, and had a unique and unmistakable passionate voice, however, once Ruffin became recognized as the "voice", and frankly the "persona" of the Temptations during the mid 60's, it would have been foolish to throw another lead voice into the mix to confuse record buyers who instantly associated Ruffins voice with Temptations songs. Eddie had pretty well established himself as the falsetto in the group, but two leads were more than enough. Look at virtually all of the popular groups at the time...all had one standard very familiar voice for fans to recognize...4 Tops [[Levi), Pips [[Gladys), Dells [[Marvin Junior), Supremes [[Ross), Vandellas [[Martha)even up to those coming along later...Blue Notes [[Teddy), Stylistics [[Russell), Intruders [[Sonny), on and on...Throw too many voices into the mix, the group would have lost it's identity. They did however use Paul on some themed album material, and he did a fantastic job...

[woodward]

We should be grateful that there is a member of the forum who was a friend of Paul and knows his accomplishments at Motown. Thank you for your prospective.

[marv2]

We should be grateful that there is a member of the forum who was a friend of Paul and knows his accomplishments at Motown. Thank you for your prospective.

I love reading Stu's posts, his memories.

[TheMotownManiac]

I’ve often wondered the same myself as I consider Paul one of the greats of soul. David had a bigger range and a bit more sass to his attacks, but Paul had a warmth and connection to his heart that I feel Beat David in those departments.

I agree that that keeping the mix to David and Eddie was the wisest and safest way to proceed, but Paul could have done a great job on lots of David’s leads. Love them both, but, I have a soft spot in my heart for Paul that I can’t explain. All three were the best!

By 1965, motown was pinching itself everyday to see if all of this was a dream. Very few groups had big hits for more than a year and Motown was doing everything possible to keep these groups popular - including using popularity proven vocalists at the expense of others that were also capable. I wish there were more leads on Paul, Mary and Flo also, but Motown stuck with what sold. There was no way for Them to know That both groups which lasted to the 70s……

[captainjames]

Yeah, the Tempts were definitely unique because there was Melvin who a lot of us loved as lead too.Today, it could so different but back then ..................nawda.

[arr&bee]

paul was my friend, a great guy, and had a unique and unmistakable passionate voice, however, once ruffin became recognized as the "voice", and frankly the "persona" of the temptations during the mid 60's, it would have been foolish to throw another lead voice into the mix to confuse record buyers who instantly associated ruffins voice with temptations songs. Eddie had pretty well established himself as the falsetto in the group, but two leads were more than enough. Look at virtually all of the popular groups at the time...all had one standard very familiar voice for fans to recognize...4 tops [[levi), pips [[gladys), dells [[marvin junior), supremes [[ross), vandellas [[martha)even up to those coming along later...blue notes [[teddy), stylistics [[russell), intruders [[sonny), on and on...throw too many voices into the mix, the group would have lost it's identity. They did however use paul on some themed album material, and he did a fantastic job...

thank you stu,you were there back in the day and all that you say is true,sadly paul missed out on those leads,but let's remember that he and eddie were the[voices]in the beginning and his leads are timeless-i want a love i can see-just let me know-tearstained letter-slow down heart-don't look back[his live performance is one of the best in music history]no more water in the well[which should've been a single]who you gonna run to-lonely,lonely man am i-check yourself-just another lonely night..the soul of the temptations-paul williams!

[Eddy66]

David Ruffin was very important to the success of Temptations but I think Paul Williams and Eddie Kendricks were even more important. There are people out who actually believe the group names should have been changed to David Ruffin and The Temptations. Apparently David wanted it to be changed to David Ruffin and The Temptations, featuring Eddie Kendricks. It's a good job no one listened to him.

[StuBass1]

Thanks for the kind words guys...As for this previous post...Davids head got lost in the clouds, or as Paul told me years later when I asked him just what happened with David being given the boot in favor of Dennis...Paul got right to the point and told me...David was on "Cloud Nine"...That about sums it up. David became a loose cannon with delusions of grandeur and felt that despite the fact that he was given an opportunity to join a group that Motown was getting behind with material and resources...decided that it was he who made the group happen...and despite the fact that he did help the group get to the top...his solo career left much to be desired...

[Eddy66]

Thanks for the kind words guys...As for this previous post...Davids head got lost in the clouds, or as Paul told me years later when I asked him just what happened with David being given the boot in favor of Dennis...Paul got right to the point and told me...David was on "Cloud Nine"...That about sums it up. David became a loose cannon with delusions of grandeur and felt that despite the fact that he was given an opportunity to join a group that Motown was getting behind with material and resources...decided that it was he who made the group happen...and despite the fact that he did help the group get to the top...his solo career left much to be desired...

This is a little off topic, although we know how close Paul Williams and Eddie were, but was there a time during their Temptations days they weren't so close? I read Eddie was closer to David and they even use to share rooms on tour.

[StuBass1]

As you mentioned, Eddie and Paul came north from Birmingham Alabama together and eventually joined up with Otis and Melvin to form the Temptations... There may be reasons that Eddie and David gravitated towards one another at some point, but so far as I know, Eddie and Paul remained close, however, Paul's declining health and other issues drove a wedge through the entire group at some point. I believe David might have painted a false rosy picture of life as a solo artist [[partially out of spite), and touted keeping all the money for oneself [[which wasn't a whole lot), as David became a highly recognizable figure in the strip clubs on McNichols [[6 mile road)..but in the end...leaving the Temptations proved to be a losing proposition for both, and the splintering with several groups of Tempts and former Tempts did none of them any good in the long run...

[Eddy66]

As you mentioned, Eddie and Paul came north from Birmingham Alabama together and eventually joined up with Otis and Melvin to form the Temptations... There may be reasons that Eddie and David gravitated towards one another at some point, but so far as I know, Eddie and Paul remained close, however, Paul's declining health and other issues drove a wedge through the entire group at some point. I believe David might have painted a false rosy picture of life as a solo artist [[partially out of spite), and touted keeping all the money for oneself [[which wasn't a whole lot), as David became a highly recognizable figure in the strip clubs on McNichols [[6 mile road)..but in the end...leaving the Temptations proved to be a losing proposition for both, and the splintering with several groups of Tempts and former Tempts did none of them any good in the long run...

I remember watching an interview with Dennis Edwards on YT and he discusses Eddie's relationship with David. He said he had never seen such a love/ hate relationship like their in his life.

[StuBass1]

I remember watching an interview with Dennis Edwards on YT and he discusses Eddie's relationship with David. He said he had never seen such a love/ hate relationship like their in his life.

Obviously...plenty of dysfunction to go around... It was tolerated while they were topping the charts...After the hits stopped...it's wasn't quite so acceptable...

[kenneth]

When I was young and hearing the Temptations for the first time - this would have been likely after David had already left the group so I heard a lot of the early tunes as oldies - I used to often confuse Paul's and David's vocals. I think vocally they were similar, though David's voice had that edge to it that Paul's didn't. Both were good, but I think David's voice had the charisma and the uniqueness about it that made it more memorable.

Ruffin's lack of success as a solo performer will always be a mystery to me. Beyond the two big hits, he seemed to lack direction. The albums seemed hastily thrown together. Was he missing the right guidance from someone at Motown?

Finally, @StuBass1, what health problems did Paul have? Did they stem from his drinking or were they more medically based? So sad that he died the way he did when he would have seemed to have a lot to live for. But I guess that is the problem with a suicide victim...they so no other way out.

[StuBass1]

It's no secret that Paul was drinking, exasorbating his reported suffering from Sickle Cell disease... I recall Paul having us caddy drinks back to him [[scotch) backstage at one of their performances. When I hadn't seen him for some time and ran into him shortly before his passing, I vividly remember how unwell he looked. I sat down and had breakfast with him and he wasn't the same guy...Appeared preoccupied...

[Luciano]

Didn't they let Paul sing "My Girl" after David left? I don't know if he did but it would have been interesting to hear him try some of David's other lead songs.

I have always been so impress with how much soul Paul poured out in songs like "For Once In My Life" and "I Gotta Be Me". To me one of the most underrated voices of all time.

[marv2]

This is a little off topic, although we know how close Paul Williams and Eddie were, but was there a time during their Temptations days they weren't so close? I read Eddie was closer to David and they even use to share rooms on tour.

Nah. Eddie was always closest to Paul Williams. In fact, he named his son that was born in 1985 after Paul. His son and my nephew are grew up together and are buddies now.

[marv2]

As you mentioned, Eddie and Paul came north from Birmingham Alabama together and eventually joined up with Otis and Melvin to form the Temptations... There may be reasons that Eddie and David gravitated towards one another at some point, but so far as I know, Eddie and Paul remained close, however, Paul's declining health and other issues drove a wedge through the entire group at some point. I believe David might have painted a false rosy picture of life as a solo artist [[partially out of spite), and touted keeping all the money for oneself [[which wasn't a whole lot), as David became a highly recognizable figure in the strip clubs on McNichols [[6 mile road)..but in the end...leaving the Temptations proved to be a losing proposition for both, and the splintering with several groups of Tempts and former Tempts did none of them any good in the long run...

Stu, I remember those clubs on McNichols. I remember the Landing Strip too out by DTW. LOL! Romulous.

[Eddy66]

Nah. Eddie was always closest to Paul Williams. In fact, he named his son that was born in 1985 after Paul. His son and my nephew are grew up together and are buddies now.

But there was a time during the period of the Temptations he did become closer to David. Even Dennis Edwards stated he had a very special relationship with David

[marv2]

But there was a time during the period of the Temptations he did become closer to David. Even Dennis Edwards stated he had a very special relationship with David

I don't know what you are referring to. Where did you read that or did someone tell you that?

[Eddy66]

I don't know what you are referring to. Where did you read that or did someone tell you that?

Quite a few books and even Dennis Edwards stated that. The relationship Eddie and Paul had was a brotherly relationship, where they were close but not necessarily all the time. He had a longer relationship with Paul up until Paul's death. Dennis Edwards made the relationship between David and Eddie seem very intense. Not necessarily closer than what he had with Paul but more intense.

[marv2]

Quite a few books and even Dennis Edwards stated that. The relationship Eddie and Paul had was a brotherly relationship, where they were close but not necessarily all the time. He had a longer relationship with Paul up until Paul's death. Dennis Edwards made the relationship between David and Eddie seem very intense. Not necessarily closer than what he had with Paul but more intense.

I'm sorry. I don't know anything about that.

[Motown Eddie]

Ruffin's lack of success as a solo performer will always be a mystery to me. Beyond the two big hits, he seemed to lack direction. The albums seemed hastily thrown together. Was he missing the right guidance from someone at Motown?

Unfortunately for David Ruffin, he wasn't going to get any thing in the way of guidance from Motown for his solo career. After the ruckus he caused in The Temptations, filing a lawsuit against the label, and missing gigs to promote his records, he wasn't going to be a priority to Motown Records. He was lucky to have two career defining hits with "My Whole World Ended [[The Moment You Left Me)" & "Walk Away From Love" after leaving the Temptations.