The Eaten Alive Demos

[JohnnyB]

I wonder if this album would’ve done better if instead of Barry Gibb doing Background vocals, she had used regular background singers.

Eureka!! LOL Just my opinion, but the Bee Gees sound is too overwhelming on the LP, although it works well on Chain Reaction...

[PeaceNHarmony]

FYI, Barry's 2016 lp 'In The Now' is excellent.

[Roberta75]

Did you know that most people in the U.S. never even heard "Chain Reaction". I caught it on the radio once one morning when I lived in Philly. It actually was on some station outside of Philly. I was driving down to D.C. for meeting and it came on. They didn't even play the whole song.

"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Albator]

"Chain Reaction" made the Billboard top 100 in 86, so it had a little bit of airplay in the US.


A number one hit in UK and a rather sizable hit elsewhere in Europe and Canada. She probably sold a million records with this one.


It's not heard anymore in France and it's a forgotten hit.

I really think the video sold the song, like with "Muscles"

[PeaceNHarmony]

I love RHRAB; interesting to see the positive comments about it here. Diana's 'Selfish One' is just beautiful.

[soulster]

Interesting opinion! What was it that you liked so much about the album? For me most of the songs come across too pop/rock than R&B, and certainly nothing "red hot".

Ross was never an R&B artist, anyway, She has always been a pop artist. She couldn't be a real R&B singer if she tried!

My guess is that the title was an outgrowth of the single "Dirty Looks". Consider that it is full of R&B standards like "Summertime" and the aforementioned "Selfish One". Even that Jackie Ross song sounded pop to me. Since Ross is a pop singer, any R&B feel in her music has to come from the musical backing, as it does on her 1980 "diana" album written, produced, and performed by Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers, and the rest of the Chic musical ensemble. She had authentic R&B "turntable" hits like "Sweet Surrender", and I remember "Who" and "Telephone" getting plays on Soul Train. And, if i'm not mistaken, Marcus Miller played on the song "So Close", produced by Luther Vandross. Other than that, you'll have to look far and wide for any real R&B in Diana Ross. She had an R&B hit with "One Love In My Lifetime". Oh, and, "Richard Perry got pretty close to R&B with "Your Love Is So Good For Me"

One of the outtakes, "Sweet Soul Music" is actually pretty good. The arrangement is rather "pop-y" but Diana's vocal is pretty darn good. Don't know what the f**k she was thinking trying to pull off "Tell Mama" or that karaoke ass version of "Mr. Lee".

Well, Ross has made several questionable musical decisions with her run with RCA, and you and I could disagree on most of them, but "Red Hot R&B" wasn't bad at all. For me, it's much more listenable than anything on "Eaten Alive".

[soulster]

"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Don't start. Let's keep at least one Ross thread peaceful and friendly, and about the music. Cool?

For the record, I don't much venture into Ross threads, either, but this one is strictly about the music, not about that other crap, so it's cool.

[Roberta75]

Don't start. Let's keep at least one Ross thread peaceful and friendly, and about the music. Cool?

For the record, I don't much venture into Ross threads, either, but this one is strictly about the music, not about that other crap, so it's cool.

Only pointing out the irony and it wasnt directed at you. ��

[RanRan79]

I do Diana was trying to prove herself during this period after being controlled for so many years, or it may have seemed that way

I think this was a component to everything also. The problem is she only ended up proving that she needed someone guiding her career. Twenty plus years in the biz and she seemed to have learned nothing about what it actually was that made the public fall in love with her. Had she kept being herself, while evolving with the times, I think the RCA years would prove more memorable.

[RanRan79]

There is a wonderful interview with Diana Ross in Q magazine [[October 1987) by Charles Shaar Murray, entitled "The Gospel according to Miss Ross," in which she explains why she selected the songs for Red Hot Rhythm and Blues. Mr. Lee because of her children listening to the Stand by Me soundtrack, Tell Mama because she always was a big fan of Etta James, There Goes My Baby because she used to sing that with the Primettes, including the talent contest in Canada, Shine because Mick Hucknall wrote that for her after she got in touch with him based on an interview she read in which he talks about the R&B artists he admired. Ross also goes into the history of black music [[although explicitly saying "I'm not an authority on this"). She also discusses quite openly why her film career did not go as well as she had hoped, her regret that she doesn't know fellow artists such as Aretha Franklin and Tina Turner very well on a personal level, and also talks about the ABC television special, including saying that LL Cool J was "sweet" adding: "But he has this thing he does, and I had to tell him, You just can't do that on television! 'Cause he kept grabbing his... [[she mimes the action on her own body and lowers her voice as she does so) balls. I had to keep saying, I don't think ABC will allow that."
It is one of the most interesting interviews with Ross I have ever read, as she talks about the music much more than in any other interview.

That's all very interesting! Thanks for the information. Seems like a great article.

[RanRan79]

I wonder if this album would’ve done better if instead of Barry Gibb doing Background vocals, she had used regular background singers.

Hmmm...interesting question to ponder. You may be on to something. I'm guessing that the music may have come across better, but wouldn't have been much more successful.

[RanRan79]

Ross was never an R&B artist, anyway, She has always been a pop artist. She couldn't be a real R&B singer if she tried!

Oh yeah, we definitely disagree here. She was trained in r&b. There's no way you lose that. "Let Me Go the Right Way", "Play a Sad Song", "Don't Take It Away", "You Can't Hurry Love", "Aint No Sad Song", "I'm a Winner", "Same Love That Made Me Laugh", "The Boss", "Carry On"...that's just off the top of my head. IMO nothing pop about her approach. That's not to say she couldn't sing pop. Diana Ross is one of the rare breed of vocalists who can sing just about any genre and appear very comfortable handling the material. And for my tastes I prefer her singing r&b. Her pop selections at RCA just weren't good enough to stand next to any other pop music at the time. "Mirror, Mirror" and "Missing You", in particular, were as good as a lot of the r&b out in the early to mid 80s.

[vgalindo]

Oh yeah, we definitely disagree here. She was trained in r&b. There's no way you lose that. "Let Me Go the Right Way", "Play a Sad Song", "Don't Take It Away", "You Can't Hurry Love", "Aint No Sad Song", "I'm a Winner", "Same Love That Made Me Laugh", "The Boss", "Carry On"...that's just off the top of my head. IMO nothing pop about her approach. That's not to say she couldn't sing pop. Diana Ross is one of the rare breed of vocalists who can sing just about any genre and appear very comfortable handling the material. And for my tastes I prefer her singing r&b. Her pop selections at RCA just weren't good enough to stand next to any other pop music at the time. "Mirror, Mirror" and "Missing You", in particular, were as good as a lot of the r&b out in the early to mid 80s.

I so agree. I love Diana Ross singing R&B. That's why I love her "Everyday is a Newday" album so much. IMO Nothing is more R&B than "Sugar Free"

[Ollie9]

To call Diana Ross purely a pop singer would be misleading. Her excellent recordings with A&S, Take Me Higher as well as EDIAND proves otherwise.
What i have always found hard to understand is why after the mega success of diana 80, Ross veered into soft rock/pop for the next 15 years when the chic r&b sound had been so hugely successful for her. There was a sprinkling of r&b here and there i.e "Mirror Mirror" "Work That Body", Telephone" " etc, but never a whole album with an r&b producer. I think with every rca release joe public were eagerly awaiting a follow up to diana. A diana2 if you like. Sadly Diana would disappoint.

[soulster]

What you guys describe is not R&B.

[TomatoTom123]

Tom, do let us know what you think. I will say the album has a real nice moment or two, but overall is disappointing.

Hey RanRan, I listened to the album eventually [[intermittently over the course of several days ) and... I liked it! I though it was good overall. From what I had read on the forum before I didn't think I would like at all really [[I was expecting late 80s rock influences or something) but I thought it was consistent and pretty good overall. I'd definitely call it pop-soul rather than red hot R&B but that's what Diana excels at in my opinion! My favourites were "Cross My Heart" and "Selfish One", which very nearly sounds like an outtake from 1965's More Hits!!!! It's got “Motown” all over it!

[RanRan79]

I so agree. I love Diana Ross singing R&B. That's why I love her "Everyday is a Newday" album so much. IMO Nothing is more R&B than "Sugar Free"

I concur Vgalindo!!

[RanRan79]

To call Diana Ross purely a pop singer would be misleading. Her excellent recordings with A&S, Take Me Higher as well as EDIAND proves otherwise.
What i have always found hard to understand is why after the mega success of diana 80, Ross veered into soft rock/pop for the next 15 years when the chic r&b sound had been so hugely successful for her. There was a sprinkling of r&b here and there i.e "Mirror Mirror" "Work That Body", Telephone" " etc, but never a whole album with an r&b producer. I think with every rca release joe public were eagerly awaiting a follow up to diana. A diana2 if you like. Sadly Diana would disappoint.

It's interesting to note that the idea of Diana being a pop singer and nothing more is accompanied by the fact that very few of her "purely pop" recordings were ever very popular. I think the public has always loved Diana Ross doing songs that bridge a gap between genres, if not outright r&b. In fact, of her hit singles, the only ones I can think of that I consider pure pop is "Do You Know Where You're Going To", "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" and "It's My Turn".

But you highlight the issue with Diana's RCA material. When you look at what she did starting with the Black album, most of that material is nothing but r&b, and the public was eating it up. The Richard Perry album is difficult to judge where public interest is concerned because the entire promotional situation was mishandled. But the material on the album is definitely a mix bag of Ross' best work, as both an r&b singer and a pop singer. Commercially a dud, but critically a success. Ross 78 was a serious misstep. Then The Boss is another straight r&b album, a popular album with popular songs, that would've been bigger with a better singles situation and promotion. She follows that up with the Chic album, a blockbuster success. Ross was doing the damn thing during this time. And then she goes to RCA. The albums she did have some fine moments but nothing she did really capitalized on the success of the Chic album. I suspect that had she remained at Motown she might have done something that adequately followed the 1980 album, but left to her creative impulses at RCA and we got a handful of dud albums that contain some fine moments.

[RanRan79]

What you guys describe is not R&B.

Well as an r&b fan, no one will ever convince me that I don't know rhythm and blues when I hear it. I was bred on it, raised on it, eaten on it. However, because we're talking art, it's all open to interpretation. If you don't hear it, you don't hear it, and so it isn't. I hear it, so it is. That's one of the great things about art. No right or wrong.

[RanRan79]

Hey RanRan, I listened to the album eventually [[intermittently over the course of several days ) and... I liked it! I though it was good overall. From what I had read on the forum before I didn't think I would like at all really [[I was expecting late 80s rock influences or something) but I thought it was consistent and pretty good overall. I'd definitely call it pop-soul rather than red hot R&B but that's what Diana excels at in my opinion! My favourites were "Cross My Heart" and "Selfish One", which very nearly sounds like an outtake from 1965's More Hits!!!! It's got “Motown” all over it!

Yes, "Selfish One" sounds like it could've been recorded during her Supremes days. Kind of sucks that they never recorded it, as far as we know.

[Bluebrock]

FYI, Barry's 2016 lp 'In The Now' is excellent.

Yes it is, particularly the deluxe version.

[Bluebrock]

Don't start. Let's keep at least one Ross thread peaceful and friendly, and about the music. Cool?

For the record, I don't much venture into Ross threads, either, but this one is strictly about the music, not about that other crap, so it's cool.

If you read through the the whole thread you will see it is the other person who is getting in the little digs and trying to start more trouble, but thankfully no-one is biting anymore. Let us keep it that way.

[soulster]

If you read through the the whole thread you will see it is the other person who is getting in the little digs and trying to start more trouble,.

I did read it all, and I didn't see anything that person wrote that was provoactive. I think some of you let your hatred blind you.

[Ollie9]

Well as an r&b fan, no one will ever convince me that I don't know rhythm and blues when I hear it. I was bred on it, raised on it, eaten on it. However, because we're talking art, it's all open to interpretation. If you don't hear it, you don't hear it, and so it isn't. I hear it, so it is. That's one of the great things about art. No right or wrong.

I quite agree RanRan79. When assessing music genre it is usually subjective and open to the individuals own interpretation.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Yes it is, particularly the deluxe version.

I'll have to get my hands on the deluxe. I was very happily surprised on first listen at how energetic Barry sounds, considering his physical health problems. And the songwriting is as usual superb. I wish Mariah Carey would consider covering a ballad or two from 'In The Now'.

[Ollie9]

I remember distinctly when RHR&B was released in the summer of 87. It garnered some great reviews from uk music critics, particularly from Blues & Soul magazine. Sadly at this point in time any new music from Diana was getting very little if any radio air space.
IMO "Dirty Looks" is a luke warm album track and an extremely poor choice for a first single. The only potential hits to my ears are "Shine" "Hard For Me To Say" And "Cross My Heart".
I believe a sprinkling of personal tv appearances on shows across europe [[forget usa) with a stronger song then "DL" to promote might have made all the difference.
For me the one thing that makes this album a stand out in Diana's vast catalogue is not the strength of material on offer but rather the fact her voice sounds in glorious form and totally connected to the songs she is singing.

[RanRan79]

I quite agree RanRan79. When assessing music genre it is usually subjective and open to the individuals own interpretation.

I would go further to say when assessing music period that it is subjective and based on a person's interpretation [[aside from certain factual elements). As the grandson of a blues singer/musician and a gospel singer/pianist I was at first insulted that someone would suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about. Rhythm and Blues, blues and gospel is what I was raised on. But it's Soulster, so I figured no offense was meant. He has definite opinions, as do I.

But Soulster the next time you suggest that I don't know R&B enough to describe it, I will cut you.

[RanRan79]

I remember distinctly when RHR&B was released in the summer of 87. It garnered some great reviews from uk music critics, particularly from Blues & Soul magazine. Sadly at this point in time any new music from Diana was getting very little if any radio air space.
IMO "Dirty Looks" is a luke warm album track and an extremely poor choice for a first single. The only potential hits to my ears are "Shine" "Hard For Me To Say" And "Cross My Heart".
I believe a sprinkling of personal tv appearances on shows across europe [[forget usa) with a stronger song then "DL" to promote might have made all the difference.
For me the one thing that makes this album a stand out in Diana's vast catalogue is not the strength of material on offer but rather the fact her voice sounds in glorious form and totally connected to the songs she is singing.

I will say she was in fine vocal form on the songs. My complaint is the arrangements. She really needed someone guiding her decisions. She should've called Aretha or Patti and asked them what did they thinks she should do. Lol Not that she would've ever done that, of course.

[soulster]

I would go further to say when assessing music period that it is subjective and based on a person's interpretation [[aside from certain factual elements). As the grandson of a blues singer/musician and a gospel singer/pianist I was at first insulted that someone would suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about. Rhythm and Blues, blues and gospel is what I was raised on. But it's Soulster, so I figured no offense was meant. He has definite opinions, as do I.

And, no offense was meant. Why are you taking this personally?

I'm also the son of a jazz-blues singer, and grew up with all genres of music, 'cept most country.

But Soulster the next time you suggest that I don't know R&B enough to describe it, I will cut you.

"Cut me? For real?" WTF is that all about? Dude, I did no such thing. We're just throwing around our different views, and I say Ross was never an R&B singer. I grew up with R&B as the first type of music I ever heard in my young life. The Temptations, The Impressions, Dinah Washington, Aretha Franklin, Sarah Vaughn, Lou Rawls, Sam & Dave, Marvin Gaye, Wilson Pickett...and all the British Invasion stuff. But, to me, Diana Ross is a pop singer. There's no need for anyone to get offended by that. Diana Ross has more soul than Dionne Warwick, but not by much. Look, it's just my opinion.

For perspective: in 1987, when RHR&B came out, I was listening to Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam, Full Force, Hall & Oates, Surface, Gloria Estefan & The Miami Sound Machine, Run D-M-C, George Michael, Prince, Billy Idol, Huey Lewis & The News, Wynton marsalis, Steve Winwood. To me, "Dirty Looks" was Ross's attempt to get back in the good graces of the base R&B audience. With the "Eaten Alive" material, she had gone too far into the pop world, and her sales suffered for it after the great showing she did with the "Swept Away" album.


Man! Why do these Ross-related threads always have to get contentious? I'm just chillin'

[TomatoTom123]

soulster, I think Ran was just joking. That's what I got from the anyway

[RanRan79]

Okay Soulster, I'm going to take a step back, and give you the benefit of the doubt. Tom is exactly right. My use of the angry/tongue/sunglasses emojis were to make certain that you understood that I was joking. For one, I said I would cut you. How exactly am I going to do that? I don't know you...do I? And I can't cut through a computer screen...can I? [[Well, I guess I could cut through the screen, but it wouldn't cut you and I'd only end up tearing my shit up.) So I'm going to need you to calm down. We've always gotten along here so I'm not sure what this is all about. Judging from your list we have similar musical tastes [[I was listening to all of those same artists in the 80s except Wynton) so we should have some great music discussions. But if you're not the joking kind let me know, because I joke all the time and I'd rather remove communication than to continue to have these kinds of flare ups. Sometimes in written correspondence it's hard to know what tone to take a given statement, which is why I used the emojis to make sure that when I'm joking, people know it.

[soulster]

soulster, I think Ran was just joking. That's what I got from the anyway

Maybe, but there was no reason for it. No one accused him of not knowing R&B music. But, as he used a qualifier for his views, I did too. He is no more an authority on R&B singing than I am. We expressed differing opinions. I will not budge. Ross is not an R&B singer. She's pop all the way.

Ran, i'm just chillin'.

I am the joking type, but on this forum, ya never know where someone is coming from. This is what I was getting at when I said in a probably now deleted thread that we are all from different walks of life. We don't all see/hear/think the same.

[RanRan79]

soulster, I think Ran was just joking. That's what I got from the anyway

Thanks for the assist Tom. I'll contemplate rescinding my request for Ralph to ban you.

[RanRan79]

Maybe, but there was no reason for it. No one accused him of not knowing R&B music. But, as he used a qualifier for his views, I did too. He is no more an authority on R&B singing than I am. We expressed differing opinions. I will not budge. Ross is not an R&B singer. She's pop all the way.

Ran, i'm just chillin'.

I am the joking type, but on this forum, ya never know where someone is coming from. This is what I was getting at when I said in a probably now deleted thread that we are all from different walks of life. We don't all see/hear/think the same.

Yeah, but some stuff should be universal. What did you think the emojis represented? Now had I been able to give you a middle finger emoji...that's pretty obvious. So I figured angry emoji- sticking tongue out emoji- sunglasses emoji would underscore the fact that I wasn't offended and I respected your right to your opinions. You know, all the same stuff I said in post #69 [["However, because we're talking art, it's all open to interpretation. If you don't hear it, you don't hear it, and so it isn't. I hear it, so it is. That's one of the great things about art. No right or wrong.") and post #77 [["...when assessing music period that it is subjective and based on a person's interpretation...But it's Soulster, so I figured no offense was meant. He has definite opinions, as do I."). The world won't end if you don't think Diana Ross is an r&b singer, and I didn't treat it as such. I did attempt some good natured ribbing that apparently didn't go over well.

We'll put this in the misunderstanding category and move on. But I'm watching you...

[TomatoTom123]

"But I'm watching you" eh RanRan? Can we stop with the threats please? tut tut

[TomatoTom123]

I did attempt some good natured ribbing that apparently didn't go over well.

cough understatement cough

[PeaceNHarmony]

I remember distinctly when RHR&B was released in the summer of 87. It garnered some great reviews from uk music critics, particularly from Blues & Soul magazine. Sadly at this point in time any new music from Diana was getting very little if any radio air space.
IMO "Dirty Looks" is a luke warm album track and an extremely poor choice for a first single. The only potential hits to my ears are "Shine" "Hard For Me To Say" And "Cross My Heart".
I believe a sprinkling of personal tv appearances on shows across europe [[forget usa) with a stronger song then "DL" to promote might have made all the difference.
For me the one thing that makes this album a stand out in Diana's vast catalogue is not the strength of material on offer but rather the fact her voice sounds in glorious form and totally connected to the songs she is singing.

I agree completely!

[RanRan79]

"But I'm watching you" eh RanRan? Can we stop with the threats please? tut tut

LOL I was thinking as I typed that "Haven't you learned your lesson RanRan?" Lol But I gotta be me. Hopefully Soulster takes that parting "shot" in the spirit in which it was given and we can get back to the music.

[RanRan79]

cough understatement cough

I know, right?

[sansradio]

Diana Ross is a soulful pop singer. There, fixed it for all of you. Now can we move on?!?!!?

[TomatoTom123]

Diana Ross is a soulful pop singer. There, fixed it for all of you. Now can we move on?!?!!?

That's what I said about RHR&B sans, I agreeeeeeee

[TomatoTom123]

LOL I was thinking as I typed that "Haven't you learned your lesson RanRan?" Lol But I gotta be me. Hopefully Soulster takes that parting "shot" in the spirit in which it was given and we can get back to the music.

I think it's just the nature of forums Ran, that someone might not be able to tell if someone else is joking.

Unless it's arr&bee

[smallworld]

Presented without comment.

[marv2]

Presented without comment.

There are no words..........except "Magnificent"!

[marv2]

[soulster]

Yeah, but some stuff should be universal. What did you think the emojis represented?

Sarcasm.

I did attempt some good natured ribbing that apparently didn't go over well.

It is difficult to determine one's tone and intent through the written word on the internet, especially on this forum where people come out swinging for no good reason.

[soulster]

cough understatement cough

Yeah, threatening to "cut" someone is violent, and something they do in prisons. I was never in a prison, and most ex-cons I know don't talk like that unless they want to go back there.

[RanRan79]

Diana Ross is a soulful pop singer. There, fixed it for all of you. Now can we move on?!?!!?

No, I don't like that either Sans and I'm offended that you tried to fix anything. Do I have to call for Ralph to ban you too?

But seriously, when you think about it, whatever category you put Ross in is probably accurate, considering how well she handles the different genres she's tried.

[RanRan79]

Yeah, threatening to "cut" someone is violent, and something they do in prisons. I was never in a prison, and most ex-cons I know don't talk like that unless they want to go back there.

Well it won't be a problem going forward. Trust that.

[jobeterob]

Diana Ross is a soulful pop singer. There, fixed it for all of you. Now can we move on?!?!!?

Yep agreed