Gladys Knight's A&E Biography: A Knight's Tale

[midnightman]

Great A&E documentary on the legendary Gladys Knight.

Talks more stuff than was revealed when Gladys did Behind the Music. A little bittersweet though because you see Shanga there and we know the issues Gladys has had with him...

I hope the BBC does a documentary on Gladys too one day. I love their documentaries. But this one in our shores was real good too.

Better make sure you watch it before the copyright police take it down lol

[Motown Eddie]

I watched the A&E Doc on Gladys Knight and I thought it was great! Thanks for the news Midnightman.

[midnightman]

I watched the A&E Doc on Gladys Knight and I thought it was great! Thanks for the news Midnightman.

You're welcome.

[milven]

I watched it too the day you posted it. I thought it was great too. Couple of facts that were in the show, I disagree with, like why the name was changed from Pips to Gladys Knight & the Pips.

Thanks for the heads up on this. Watched and enjoyed

[midnightman]

I watched it too the day you posted it. I thought it was great too. Couple of facts that were in the show, I disagree with, like why the name was changed from Pips to Gladys Knight & the Pips.

Thanks for the heads up on this. Watched and enjoyed

Didn't Bubba say in that video with that interviewer about WHY they changed it to Gladys Knight and the Pips?

I remember it was said they changed it because Vee-Jay released the original version of Every Beat without consoling the Pips and they added "Gladys Knight and..." to their name to compete with the Vee-Jay version after they recorded their version on Fury, which was Bobby Robinson's label. It's quite a colorful story. At one point, there were THREE labels that released the Pips' song. A local Atlanta label was first, followed by Vee-Jay's [[both the ATL/Vee-Jay singles were the same version of the song) and they re-recorded it for Fury's version.

[heikki]

A very good documentary. Thank you, Midnightman.
Below you can see the scan of Gladys' very first record in 1957:
http://www.soulexpress.net/deep1_2014.htm#gladys

Best regards
Heikki

[PeaceNHarmony]

Knight is a tremendous talent. I was a major fan since the 'Nitty Gritty' days. Many wonderful concert memories. I've had to walk away from Knight since learning of her Mormonism. As a gay American I cannot support anyone who gives a minimum of 10% of their income and all of their faith support to a group that actively discriminates against myself and my tribe.

[marv2]

I love Gladys Knight. I will be seeing her again in concert somewhere this year!

[midnightman]

Knight is a tremendous talent. I was a major fan since the 'Nitty Gritty' days. Many wonderful concert memories. I've had to walk away from Knight since learning of her Mormonism. As a gay American I cannot support anyone who gives a minimum of 10% of their income and all of their faith support to a group that actively discriminates against myself and my tribe.

Gladys to me seems to be a person of extremes. She was someone who was addicted to gambling, seems like she had to find something else in extremes? But AFAIK, I don't think she personally is homophobic but yeah giving up 10% of their money for a man-made faith where a good chunk advocate homophobic thoughts is too much.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Gladys to me seems to be a person of extremes. She was someone who was addicted to gambling, seems like she had to find something else in extremes? But AFAIK, I don't think she personally is homophobic but yeah giving up 10% of their money for a man-made faith where a good chunk advocate homophobic thoughts is too much.

For me it's impossible to separate the person from the group the person chooses to belong to and support. Brandon Flowers of the Killers and Marie Osmond both hide behind 'Well, I don't agree with that part of Mormonism' but I think that's a large crock for them to hide behind. Mormons still insist upon gay conversion 'therapy', barely a step up from rogue exorcism and proven to be not only ineffective but psychologically harmful. There are many religions that one can practice: Gladys chose Mormonism late in life and with full knowledge of their practices. And luckily for me there are many other great performers I can listen to!

[midnightman]

For me it's impossible to separate the person from the group the person chooses to belong to and support. Brandon Flowers of the Killers and Marie Osmond both hide behind 'Well, I don't agree with that part of Mormonism' but I think that's a large crock for them to hide behind. Mormons still insist upon gay conversion 'therapy', barely a step up from rogue exorcism and proven to be not only ineffective but psychologically harmful. There are many religions that one can practice: Gladys chose Mormonism late in life and with full knowledge of their practices. And luckily for me there are many other great performers I can listen to!

I still think Marie's son who killed himself did so because he was possibly gay and felt Marie wouldn't be accepting. :/

[PeaceNHarmony]

I still think Marie's son who killed himself did so because he was possibly gay and felt Marie wouldn't be accepting. :/

I as well, though it would be impossible to know how much was fear of Marie's disapproval or that of the community he lived in all his life.

[midnightman]

I as well, though it would be impossible to know how much was fear of Marie's disapproval or that of the community he lived in all his life.

Probably the community. To me, Marie is like Gladys, I doubt she's homophobic herself. But I can see how in his case, it would be hard to come out because of the family and their upbringing.

[TomatoTom123]

Knight is a tremendous talent. I was a major fan since the 'Nitty Gritty' days. Many wonderful concert memories. I've had to walk away from Knight since learning of her Mormonism. As a gay American I cannot support anyone who gives a minimum of 10% of their income and all of their faith support to a group that actively discriminates against myself and my tribe.

Well, I didn't know about this... kinda sad to hear...

[waynesville]

Well, I didn't know about this... kinda sad to hear...

To my astonishment I didn't know this either. I love the way you learn things on this board….
The extent to which you can separate an artist from his/or her work is a difficult one. Is Gladys' legacy diminished by her Mormonism? Or to take a famous example from classical music, is Richard Wagner's achievement with the Ring Cycle diminished by the fact that he was anti-Semitic?

[TomatoTom123]

To my astonishment I didn't know this either. I love the way you learn things on this board….
The extent to which you can separate an artist from his/or her work is a difficult one. Is Gladys' legacy diminished by her Mormonism? Or to take a famous example from classical music, is Richard Wagner's achievement with the Ring Cycle diminished by the fact that he was anti-Semitic?

I agree wayne... I mean, I certainly love Gladys for her music... just not her religious views...

[PeaceNHarmony]

To my astonishment I didn't know this either. I love the way you learn things on this board….
The extent to which you can separate an artist from his/or her work is a difficult one. Is Gladys' legacy diminished by her Mormonism? Or to take a famous example from classical music, is Richard Wagner's achievement with the Ring Cycle diminished by the fact that he was anti-Semitic?

The achievement is not diminished, but a member of the public may find their appreciation/tolerance of the appreciation diminished. The most current example would be Cosby. In making a personal decision we can look into the creator and their work and judge how each influenced the other and eventually affected the public. Sticking with Gladys Knight [[and The Killers, who make music that I also loved) it is a known fact that they belong to a group who requires a significant percentage of member's income be tithed to the organization which in turn uses those funds to suppress [[and in my opinion, harm) a percentage of the population [[which coincidentally seems to be at the same percentage of the required tithe!) You will note that I do not denounce or denigrate Knight nor Flowers personally nor do I reduce their talent and achievements. I simply refuse to financially fund their chosen religion due to it's regressive and repressive beliefs and actions and I think it helpful to make these situations known so others can make their own informed decisions.

[midnightman]

I actually like the Killers' music [[and some of the Osmonds). Their religion didn't stop me from listening to them but probably stopped short of stanning them. Same with Gladys. But most stan the classic old stuff, especially from the Motown, Buddah and Columbia years before Mormonism took the place of gambling in Gladys' life.

[midnightman]

To my astonishment I didn't know this either. I love the way you learn things on this board….
The extent to which you can separate an artist from his/or her work is a difficult one. Is Gladys' legacy diminished by her Mormonism? Or to take a famous example from classical music, is Richard Wagner's achievement with the Ring Cycle diminished by the fact that he was anti-Semitic?

Nah. Only way it would be diminished is if she personally advocated homophobic thoughts, which to my knowledge, she hasn't [[and she probably has gay people helping her with her makeup and clothing). Las Vegas, where she lives, is also VERY gay-friendly. Sometimes, it's not the religion but someone's views that will attempt to destroy their legacy.

For two good examples, Donna Summer and Gloria Gaynor. They were, and still are, the icons of the disco revolution of the mid-to-late '70s [[Donna being its Queen and Gloria Gaynor the First Lady).

After both went through personal struggles [[for Donna, it was mental issues and depression; for Gloria, it was drugs), they "found God" and were born again. Donna's conversion was so massive that for nearly 25 years, she stopped performing Love to Love You Baby [[but in 2004, she returned to perform the song until her death in 2012). Gloria never really stopped performing any of her disco material but when she sings I Will Survive, she replaces the lyric that says "it took all the strength I had not to fall apart" to "it took all of God's strength not to fall apart").

But both seem to get in trouble for what they said, or in Donna's case, allegedly said. Gloria has gone on record to tell her audience to be clothed [[she won't perform if you're half nude; she's obviously mentioning the gay audience since that's the only audience that really comes out to see her perform these days) and she was accused of being both puritanical and homophobic.

Stories came out in the early '80s that Donna Summer once told an audience that AIDS was "God's divine ruling" and infamously that "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". Donna was to have said these words around 1983-84. Donna claims that after being such a huge pop star in the late 1970s that she choose to be intensely private and that probably kept her from reading what was said about her. But when someone confronted her about them, she steadfastly denied the words.

Despite this, the alleged homophobic speeches from Donna began costing her dearly and almost destroyed the legacy she had amassed during the '70s. When some newspaper printed what she allegedly said, she sued the paper [[think it was the New Yorker) and told people in a press conference that she didn't say it and she "did not believe that". Donna and the paper settled out of court.

Donna eventually began performing more in gay clubs and venues to make amends to the community, which sometimes can be hard to forgive since once you say something offensive, we turn on you and don't look back but I don't believe Donna said what they claimed she said. Also by the time she died in 2012, many gay publications honored her as one of our voices.

But there have been folks in the industry who have been in religious groups in which homophobia is part of some folks' mindsets that haven't espoused these views [[since there is now a growing trend of LGBT Christians these days) so until I see Gladys actually saying this, I'm not gonna hold her Mormonism against her. But yeah, it's more troublesome because Mormonism is still seen by a good number of people as a cult.

[bob_olhsson]

I've never understood why she felt Motown didn't take her seriously. Everybody I knew adored Gladys and considered her to be one of our very finest two or three singers.

[midnightman]

I've never understood why she felt Motown didn't take her seriously. Everybody I knew adored Gladys and considered her to be one of our very finest two or three singers.

Gladys looked at things like an outsider. She felt Motown wouldn't pay attention to her like Marvin or Diana. Despite this, she was real close to most of the Motown artists. She and Tammi were best friends judging on her appearing on Marvin's PBS special. I remember she also thought Norman Whitfield had stolen the melody from Marvin's Grapevine for a song she and the Pips records. I guess she made that claim later when she and Motown were at it in court. But that being said, of the groups that were promoted in Motown between 1967 and 1973, besides the Jackson 5, the Supremes and the Temptations, no other group had a bigger standing after that than Gladys Knight & the Pips so they did get a lot of attention. That said, maybe being on the Soul imprint and having some of their songs not be top tens on the Hot 100 [[like I Don't Want to Do Wrong or You Need Love or Help Me Make It Through the Night) is probably why Gladys was still bitter at them.

[luke]

I did not know about her religious beliefs. IMO she has a responsibility to make clear her beliefs about gay people. Until then I will not buy her music or go to see her. Can you imagine paying to see a performer who belongs to a racist organization? Not I.

[luke]

Come to think of it, don’t the Mormons have racial issues too? I remember dear Marie Osmond doing a tap dance about black leadership in the church which as I recall was not allowed at the time [[79s or 80s...don’t know about now).

[midnightman]

1978 was when they finally allowed black members.

[luke]

In leadership roles?

[midnightman]

^ I think. But I don't think blacks were even allowed to be MEMBERS in '78. So maybe both.