Diana Ross - Afro Vogue!!!

[midnightman]

Still a powerful clip nearly 50 years later.

[TheMotownManiac]

Stupendous! Perfectly conceived and performed.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Wonderful to revisit. Quite a controversial & daring number in its time.

[DJMoch]

Diana has got some awesome moves! Every time I watch this, I sit there mesmerized. I love this so much.

[RanRan79]

I'm amazed that this isn't presented when talking about African Americans on television. While Black was becoming something to proclaim with pride, the stigma attached to anything African was still very much alive. For Diana Ross, someone so closely associated with the "erasure" of race from music, to go on prime time television and so boldly present a beautiful Black woman in all her Nubian glory to homes all across the nation, that had to be a powerful statement and a milestone in television history. Yet it seems to be something that no one talks about during historical retrospectives. How great it would have been to have included this among the montage at the AMAs. A montage which sucked for my taste.

[jobeterob]

It’s important that places like Soulful Detroit be a starting point for bringing clips like this to the forefront and to renewed attention

[jobeterob]

Was this part of GIT On Broadway?

We didn’t get it in all parts of Canada when it was broadcast

[bradsupremes]

Was this part of GIT On Broadway?

We didn’t get it in all parts of Canada when it was broadcast

TCB.

GIT had the Leading Lady medley.

[midnightman]

I'm amazed that this isn't presented when talking about African Americans on television. While Black was becoming something to proclaim with pride, the stigma attached to anything African was still very much alive. For Diana Ross, someone so closely associated with the "erasure" of race from music, to go on prime time television and so boldly present a beautiful Black woman in all her Nubian glory to homes all across the nation, that had to be a powerful statement and a milestone in television history. Yet it seems to be something that no one talks about during historical retrospectives. How great it would have been to have included this among the montage at the AMAs. A montage which sucked for my taste.

Exactly. It's NEVER brought up. To do this in the middle of so much turmoil was bold and brave.

[jobeterob]

Was this segment part of the original broadcast? We never got TCB either

[midnightman]

Was this segment part of the original broadcast? We never got TCB either

Yes it was.

[marybrewster]

I think Diana is doing the African Anteater Ritual:

https://youtu.be/fBzU4aEnnmc

[arr&bee]

Yes diana does a great job here,but before we dub her[queen of africa]let's remember that all that was part of berry's plan to get diana's solo thing going.

[marv2]

Yes diana does a great job here,but before we dub her[queen of africa]let's remember that all that was part of berry's plan to get diana's solo thing going.

Now there ya go! It was totally contrived and calculated.

[jobeterob]

Yes diana does a great job here,but before we dub her[queen of africa]let's remember that all that was part of berry's plan to get diana's solo thing going.

Better be careful or Aretha will issue a statement on here asking what she is!

[thommg]

Now there ya go! It was totally contrived and calculated.

I would say that it was a very precarious choice for this special. Considering that this was the first special of its kind on network television, to have Diana Ross dance something called Afro Vogue with no popular song attached, and African inspired fabrics and dancing, I would use the word daring. The entire special was contrived and calculated. It was designed to show off two groups who had even more potential than they had already reached. It's not as if the people involved didn't know that Ms. Ross was eventually going to leave the group. Everything that had been done since 1966 pointed to that. She was fantastic in this number. It was not something that most people would have seen on television at that time and it meant something to many of the television audience. It was a number that had an impact.

[TheMotownManiac]

Yes diana does a great job here,but before we dub her[queen of africa]let's remember that all that was part of berry's plan to get diana's solo thing going.

i don’t understand your point. Does the fact that she was going solo somehow make this less than it would have been if she was staying? Does the piece not speak for itself? What did any group ever do on TV? They did it to further their careers. You act like there was something wrong with Diana’s solo thing. I really do not get your point here.

[marv2]

i don’t understand your point. Does the fact that she was going solo somehow make this less than it would have been if she was staying? Does the piece not speak for itself? What did any group ever do on TV? They did it to further their careers. You act like there was something wrong with Diana’s solo thing. I really do not get your point here.

The point is all those solo spots featuring Diana Ross almost ruined the special for those that were fans of The Supremes [[as a group) and the Temptations. I watched it when it originally aired [[in December '68 I believe is when it came on) and was thinking why is she all over the show! The Supremes and the Temptations were used as co-stars. The Temptations were very hot on charts at that time. I'll let Arr&Bee give his own thoughts.

[RanRan79]

Yes diana does a great job here,but before we dub her[queen of africa]let's remember that all that was part of berry's plan to get diana's solo thing going.

I don't understand your pointing this out and I'd be curious to know which part of my statement or any of the statements prior to yours gave the impression that we were calling Diana Queen of Africa.

Wasn't everything Diana Ross did during this period a part of Gordy's master plan? My point was that what she did was very bold and daring for the time period. To a majority of Americans, Africans were spear chucking cannibals who needed to be tamed; an evolutionary step away from "prehistoric" man. There was nothing to be proud of about Africa. There's a reason why there isn't a photo to be found of the 1960s Supremes, Vandellas, Marvelettes, Bluebelles, Ronettes, Shirelles, etc, emulating the look of Yoruba or Igbo women. For Diana Ross, or any other Black woman, to so proudly display Africa- in any way- in the late 60s on national television was out of the ordinary. It was a milestone in television that shouldn't be forgotten.

I can't see an argument with this.

[RanRan79]

The point is all those solo spots featuring Diana Ross almost ruined the special for those that were fans of The Supremes [[as a group) and the Temptations. I watched it when it originally aired [[in December '68 I believe is when it came on) and was thinking why is she all over the show! The Supremes and the Temptations were used as co-stars. The Temptations were very hot on charts at that time. I'll let Arr&Bee give his own thoughts.

No one can fault your opinion regarding Diana's solo spots. If you weren't a fan of hers I guess it would suck to see her by herself a few times. It is what it is. But that's not the discussion we're having. The discussion is about how daring it was for a Black artist to do something like this on national television regarding anything African considering the view of Africa at the time. It just wasn't something that was done and Diana Ross, and the people behind her, should be commended for being so brave.

[RanRan79]

Lets make sure that liking or not liking Diana Ross isn't confused with the facts of the case. Thanks.

[TomatoTom123]

Lets make sure that liking or not liking Diana Ross isn't confused with the facts of the case. Thanks.

HA! "facts"! You're too funny RanRan

[TomatoTom123]

Still a powerful clip nearly 50 years later.

Oh wow, I'm not sure what I was expecting but I don't think I wasn't expecting that! The dancing! Diana was really going for it!!!! Great stuff

[midnightman]

How come folks who claim they don't like a certain artist come to that certain artist's thread? I just don't get it and never will.

Anyway, yeah Circa, that's why it's important to remember our history. Diana did far more than people give her credit for. Real talk.

[TheMotownManiac]

The point is all those solo spots featuring Diana Ross almost ruined the special for those that were fans of The Supremes [[as a group) and the Temptations. I watched it when it originally aired [[in December '68 I believe is when it came on) and was thinking why is she all over the show! The Supremes and the Temptations were used as co-stars. The Temptations were very hot on charts at that time. I'll let Arr&Bee give his own thoughts.

that may be your point, and it’s as valid as any, but it certainly cannot be his point from his verbiage. Also, one can be a fan if the group and still dig her solo spots. One has nothing to do with the other. Without Ross, there would be no TCB special at all. Those who do not or did not care for her definitely would find time to pee during her spots. Remember there were folks not into The Tempts and/orvThebSupremes who enjoyed it for who they did like. In any event, the special WITH Ross’ 3 solo spots, was a ratings and critical smash which was repeated in prime time the following spring - both times winning its time slot and riding a platinum #1 Soundtrack album. Somehow I don’t think Ross’ solo spots hurt the show for the general populace.

That being said, the point of this topic is the ballsy, in-your-face-I’m-BLACKness of it all performed by a woman who was said to appeal more to white folks. Well, this is hardly what anyone could call pandering to her white audience. Bigots would take it as a double slap-in-the-face when Afro-Vogue ends and seques into a high class, total show biz glamour knock out punch performance of Tin Pan Alley standard Somewhere - which led to Diana quoting MLK and shouting “free at Last” This is a masterpiece of bringing the new Black message into white homes: luring Baby Love purchasers into recognizing that African roots can lead to the epitome of white controlled show business and do it as well or better than any white people.

To chip away away at this brilliant statement because of group politics saddens me because you clearly must not get the point.

[RanRan79]

HA! "facts"! You're too funny RanRan

You would think I've learned my lesson. In this age of alternative facts and fake news, it shouldn't surprise me some of the things I see even in SD. And all jokes aside, that's extremely saddening.

[RanRan79]

Maniac, get out of my brain!! We seem to be on the same page with this. Loving your thoughts.

It's so sad that this very positive thread had to devolve into negativity. Perhaps we'd do better to just skip past off topic posts in this thread and continue on with any further discussion of this very bold moment in Motown history.

[blackguy69]

Ran I guess some can’t even give one positive remark. With marv on this thread and certain others on the someday thread, I’m guessing it’s all about the drama.

[midnightman]

that may be your point, and it’s as valid as any, but it certainly cannot be his point from his verbiage. Also, one can be a fan if the group and still dig her solo spots. One has nothing to do with the other. Without Ross, there would be no TCB special at all. Those who do not or did not care for her definitely would find time to pee during her spots. Remember there were folks not into The Tempts and/orvThebSupremes who enjoyed it for who they did like. In any event, the special WITH Ross’ 3 solo spots, was a ratings and critical smash which was repeated in prime time the following spring - both times winning its time slot and riding a platinum #1 Soundtrack album. Somehow I don’t think Ross’ solo spots hurt the show for the general populace.

That being said, the point of this topic is the ballsy, in-your-face-I’m-BLACKness of it all performed by a woman who was said to appeal more to white folks. Well, this is hardly what anyone could call pandering to her white audience. Bigots would take it as a double slap-in-the-face when Afro-Vogue ends and seques into a high class, total show biz glamour knock out punch performance of Tin Pan Alley standard Somewhere - which led to Diana quoting MLK and shouting “free at Last” This is a masterpiece of bringing the new Black message into white homes: luring Baby Love purchasers into recognizing that African roots can lead to the epitome of white controlled show business and do it as well or better than any white people.

To chip away away at this brilliant statement because of group politics saddens me because you clearly must not get the point.

I was trying to find the full clip of her reciting Dr. King and singing Somewhere but apparently YouTube deleted it. I remember when I saw the full original clip, I had tears in my eyes.

Also Diana and the Supremes, shortly after MLK's death, went to London to perform and when they went into Somewhere, Diana launched into a speech about racial tolerance in front of Queen Elizabeth. That seemed just as bold...

But we know how Diana/Supremes discussions fall apart when someone just decides to let hate crowd his mind. It's sad, really. A grown person with THAT much hatred for one person is not healthy.

[Roberta75]

The point is all those solo spots featuring Diana Ross almost ruined the special for those that were fans of The Supremes [[as a group) and the Temptations. I watched it when it originally aired [[in December '68 I believe is when it came on) and was thinking why is she all over the show! The Supremes and the Temptations were used as co-stars. The Temptations were very hot on charts at that time. I'll let Arr&Bee give his own thoughts.

"Originally Posted by marv2 October 2016
I don't even go into most Diana Ross threads on here."




LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[TheMotownManiac]

Healthy or not, his opinion is as valid to him as ours are to us, it’s interesting that some folk ENJOY negative obsessions as a way to release hostility that might keep them from going postal, joining ISIS or becoming obsessive about cars or cleaning which could, if left untreated, cause death from a severe case of housemaid’s knee.

TCB was so huge - everyone I knew watched it even if they never bought a Motown 45 - it was an unprecedented cultural coming of minds for our generation that would soon be eclipsed by Woodstock - yet the distinct similalarity of the love of music would drive both. I’m sure a lot of folks didn’t care for, or were annoyed by Afro Vogue - but a slap in the face is never meant to just feel good - I’m proud of Berry and Diana for this and thrilled they created this great show. It was perfect just the way it was except Ross flubs a bit while lipping Eleanor Rigby I think. Also, they truncated one Tempts song for TV - otherwise, it is sublime.

[midnightman]

TCB was a groundbreaking special in general. It did a lot of wonders: for Motown, for the Supremes, for the Temptations and for Diana.

[jobeterob]

TCB was a groundbreaking special in general. It did a lot of wonders: for Motown, for the Supremes, for the Temptations and for Diana.

That and holding the Top 3 records for a month made Motown a target

[midnightman]

That and holding the Top 3 records for a month made Motown a target

For real! Motown had become a force to be reckoned after TCB happened. Unstoppable at that point.

[arr&bee]

Yes the special was very cool,but the temps themselves weren't too cool on appearing because they felt that they were being used.

[midnightman]

Yes the special was very cool,but the temps themselves weren't too cool on appearing because they felt that they were being used.

Yeah I know. I think in the film, Paul Williams' character started complaining that they were gonna be called sell outs.

[JohnnyB]

Yeah I know. I think in the film, Paul Williams' character started complaining that they were gonna be called sell outs.

This conversation surrounding TCB has me dreaming an Impossible Dream. This fall is the 50th anniversary of the initial airing of TCB. I wish we could get a DVD release of the show to commemorate its legacy. Imagine a DVD including outtakes and commentary from Ross, Wilson, Otis Williams, Suzanne Depasse and Berry Gordy. Or if a DVD cannot happen due to the roadblocks we already know of, imagine a special cable airing on the date of its original premiere. BET? OWN?

I can dream...

[TheMotownManiac]

Yes the special was very cool,but the temps themselves weren't too cool on appearing because they felt that they were being used.

i think it was GIT that they were unhappy with. TCB was their only #1 pop and R&B album, ‘Join’ was their second highest charting album......they’d have been fools not to want to do TCB as it opened up their greatness to millions who might not have ever given them a chance. The fact is that after TCB, their albums immediately began to chart much higher on the pop chart while they continued to hit the top of the r and b chart. It did them a world of good.

[midnightman]

^ Good point. I forgot about GIT. You could be right, Maniac.