Time to Recognize The Ronettes as Rock 'N' Roll Pioneers

[midnightman]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/12/59089...-roll-pioneers

Interesting read and I agree.

I noticed folks have almost never called Tina Turner a rock and roll pioneer either [[but quick to call Ike one because he wrote "Rocket 88", which is really just a simple blues tune that predated it) and she definitely was the beginning of that too. But I agree with this about the Ronettes [[as well as the Shangri-Las).

[PeaceNHarmony]

Yes all around. The Ronettes were more rock than soul but a pioneering combo of both. Tina was the true pioneer in the Revue with both her blistering vocals and once-in-a-lifetime performing style [[Ike a good talent scout and I'll leave that there ...) and the Shangs?! Just superb.

[marv2]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/12/59089...-roll-pioneers

Interesting read and I agree.

I noticed folks have almost never called Tina Turner a rock and roll pioneer either [[but quick to call Ike one because he wrote "Rocket 88", which is really just a simple blues tune that predated it) and she definitely was the beginning of that too. But I agree with this about the Ronettes [[as well as the Shangri-Las).

Uh uh. Ike's "Rocket 88" is considered the first official Rock and Roll record by many! Tina did not have anything to do with that. Heck, Ike is the one that gave Tina her start. He even gave her the name "Tina Turner"! He deserves more than he got.

[marv2]

I read Ronnie's book back in 1990. It was very interesting. The last time I saw her was in 2010 at the Ponderosa Stomp outside Lincoln Center.

[midnightman]

Uh uh. Ike's "Rocket 88" is considered the first official Rock and Roll record by many! Tina did not have anything to do with that. Heck, Ike is the one that gave Tina her start. He even gave her the name "Tina Turner"! He deserves more than he got.

That's only because some Sun Records' Sam Phillips said it.

The first rock and roll record was possibly from this guy, which came more than three years before:



Only reason people go on about "Rocket 88" is only because Sam Phillips said the song was the first rock record. He's possibly wrong about that just like folks were wrong about Elvis, Little Richard or Chuck Berry being "the first".

The Kings of Rhythm were just another rhythm and blues band scraping to get by when they cut Rocket 88 and then Sam stole Ike Turner's entire publishing for that song and credited it to Jackie Brenston and called the Kings of Rhythm his "daily cats". Also because Bill Haley covered it, people think it means something lol

Ike Turner was at best a R&B pioneer. Tina's voice was unusual for a female vocalist, probably in the same boat as Big Mama Thornton or Etta James [[both of whom were blues/R&B performers). It was too complex for just R&B and soul recordings. Tina had to basically get Ike to switch from R&B to '60s rock to get him the hits he was searching.

Also, Tina cut River Deep - Mountain High by her lonesome and that song, as far as I know, is hailed as a rock and roll masterpiece.

So there.

[midnightman]

Yes all around. The Ronettes were more rock than soul but a pioneering combo of both. Tina was the true pioneer in the Revue with both her blistering vocals and once-in-a-lifetime performing style [[Ike a good talent scout and I'll leave that there ...) and the Shangs?! Just superb.

He was a good bandleader too but I know what you mean. Dude was not too much of a complex writer lol

Except for Rocket 88 and A Fool in Love, what else did he write that was so compelling? Don't worry Ike fans, I'll wait... lol

[robb_k]

"Good Rockin' Tonight" was first sung by Roy Brown, before Wynonie Harris.

[midnightman]

"Good Rockin' Tonight" was first sung by Roy Brown, before Wynonie Harris.

That's true but his version was more of a jump blues. He wrote it though so he could claim he wrote the first rock and roll song. Wynonnie's was the first to have what made rock and roll: the backbeat.

[marv2]

"Good Rockin' Tonight" was first sung by Roy Brown, before Wynonie Harris.

Midnightman........so there! LOL! thanks Robb!

[PeaceNHarmony]

He was a good bandleader too but I know what you mean. Dude was not too much of a complex writer lol

Except for Rocket 88 and A Fool in Love, what else did he write that was so compelling? Don't worry Ike fans, I'll wait... lol

Ike lied xxx I mean said for years that he was responsible for 'hundreds' of r&b hits, yet he actually scored about 25 r&b chart singles, most of those not cracking the top 20. An indecent person, a good blues-rock guitarist, and the nominal leader of one of the best live acts ever he certainly was. But unfortunately he also stole & renamed [[and credited to himself) songs, licks, etc. As a major I&TT Review fan I bought every [[and I mean EVERY) lp that was issued and was always disappointed that whoever was in charge [[let me guess ...) padded the lps with such lousy 'original' material. Had Tina never joined the Review Ike would never have progressed beyond the roadhouse circuit.

[midnightman]

Midnightman........so there! LOL! thanks Robb!

Lol you didn't even see my post after him. SO THERE.

[midnightman]

Ike lied xxx I mean said for years that he was responsible for 'hundreds' of r&b hits, yet he actually scored about 25 r&b chart singles, most of those not cracking the top 20. An indecent person, a good blues-rock guitarist, and the nominal leader of one of the best live acts ever he certainly was. But unfortunately he also stole & renamed [[and credited to himself) songs, licks, etc. As a major I&TT Review fan I bought every [[and I mean EVERY) lp that was issued and was always disappointed that whoever was in charge [[let me guess ...) padded the lps with such lousy 'original' material. Had Tina never joined the Review Ike would never have progressed beyond the roadhouse circuit.

I hate the revisionist cycle sometimes but they try to paint a different picture of what really happened. Ike always exaggerated his importance in music history, I feel. He was a great piano player and session musician but he never could get off the regional scene like Chuck Berry because he had terrible stage fright, his voice wasn't so good, and also, wasn't much of a songwriter. Before the release of A Fool in Love, he intended to take Tina's voice out because it was supposed to be a demo for a male singer but Juggy Murray said "no". I always credited Juggy Murray on making Tina the star. Sure Ike used Tina as his ticket to be a star, but had it not been for Juggy Murray, we wouldn't be mentioning either Ike or Tina.

Ike couldn't get into the HOF without Tina... and she proved after a while she really didn't need him. People are gonna wait until Tina's passing to finally bring up how influential SHE was...

And before anyone brings up "well Little Richard, Phil Spector and B.B. King said this..."

No. Just a warning: don't try it.

[Nothing But Soul]

He was a good bandleader too but I know what you mean. Dude was not too much of a complex writer lol

Except for Rocket 88 and A Fool in Love, what else did he write that was so compelling? Don't worry Ike fans, I'll wait... lol

I wouldn't give Ike Turner too much credit for writing "Rocket 88." It's a pretty blatant rip-off of Jimmy Liggins' "Cadillac Boogie" that was released several years earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR4Y-lU_kOg

[Motown Eddie]

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/12/59089...-roll-pioneers

Interesting read and I agree.

I noticed folks have almost never called Tina Turner a rock and roll pioneer either [[but quick to call Ike one because he wrote "Rocket 88", which is really just a simple blues tune that predated it) and she definitely was the beginning of that too. But I agree with this about the Ronettes [[as well as the Shangri-Las).

Thanks for sharing the article about The Ronettes. Since the group has been inducted into The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame, they have received recognition for their pioneering work [[unlike The Chantles, The Marvelettes or The Shangri-Las who have yet to be inducted into the hall).

[smallworld]

Isn't Ronnie routinely billed as "The Original Bad Girl of Rock 'n' Roll"? I just skimmed the article but a passage jumped out at me, where the author bemoans Ronnie vocals being descriped in terms of "pop" rather than "rock". I'm over "pop" being a dirty word or a negative value judgment. Genre classification is primarily a way to sell music - I support it in terms of aiding consumers [["If you like this sound, you might like X"). But I don't support it as a means to place one thing above another. Rock ain't top of the heap in my book.

[motony]

I've always thought of Tina Turner as the undisputed Queen of Rock N Roll, since back when I bought those Sue Records 45's. I certainly consider Ike a rock pioneer also.Ike also had a lot of business saavy too, he took Phil Spectors money to stay away from Gold Star while Phil recorded Tina alone. The I.&T.T. Revue ran like clockwork and Ike played a major part in that. Oh yea, like every Jr. High School boy in 1963 I was in love with those Ronettes.

[midnightman]

I've always thought of Tina Turner as the undisputed Queen of Rock N Roll, since back when I bought those Sue Records 45's. I certainly consider Ike a rock pioneer also.Ike also had a lot of business saavy too, he took Phil Spectors money to stay away from Gold Star while Phil recorded Tina alone. The I.&T.T. Revue ran like clockwork and Ike played a major part in that. Oh yea, like every Jr. High School boy in 1963 I was in love with those Ronettes.

Heh yeah he took it because he knew Ike was a control freak. Money usually calms the savage beast [[he also gave Ike the option of producing half the album and you can tell when you see songs like I Idolize You on it which they already recorded in '60 lmao).

As for the Ronettes... yeah they were definitely not to be played with. Between them and the Shangri-Las [[who for some despicable reason still haven't been in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame YET), they really set the tone for other groups later on. The New York Dolls and other glam acts took cues from both the Ronettes and the Shangri-Las.

[PeaceNHarmony]

I hate the revisionist cycle sometimes but they try to paint a different picture of what really happened. Ike always exaggerated his importance in music history, I feel. He was a great piano player and session musician but he never could get off the regional scene like Chuck Berry because he had terrible stage fright, his voice wasn't so good, and also, wasn't much of a songwriter. Before the release of A Fool in Love, he intended to take Tina's voice out because it was supposed to be a demo for a male singer but Juggy Murray said "no". I always credited Juggy Murray on making Tina the star. Sure Ike used Tina as his ticket to be a star, but had it not been for Juggy Murray, we wouldn't be mentioning either Ike or Tina.

Ike couldn't get into the HOF without Tina... and she proved after a while she really didn't need him. People are gonna wait until Tina's passing to finally bring up how influential SHE was...

And before anyone brings up "well Little Richard, Phil Spector and B.B. King said this..."

No. Just a warning: don't try it.

Disruptive sprite that I am, I do now want to try it! But on a more serious note ... i understand Little Richard and BB King vocally supporting Ike. Unlike certain ex Suprxxx group members, LR & BB chose a high road instead of cashing in on recalled 'memories'. Ike was smart enough to see a way out of the roadhouse circuit and in doing so introduced the world to one of the most beloved entertainers ever. So be it. But the myth that Ike was another Little Richard or BB King is just that - a myth.

[midnightman]

For real lol

But yeah I get what you're saying, they have SOME merit. I mean Richard admitted copping his Good Golly Miss Molly riff from Rocket 88 after all.