Rare pic of Martha & The Vandellas after their R&R Hall of Fame induction

**midnightman** · 03-19-2018, 05:58 PM

[[L-R): Martha, Roz, Betty, Annette and Lois

First all-female group since... you know who... to be inducted to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame so you can't take that away from 'em.

**marv2** · 03-19-2018, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

[[L-R): Martha, Roz, Betty, Annette and Lois

First all-female group since... you know who... to be inducted to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame so you can't take that away from 'em.

Also, each woman pictured was inducted into the Hall. I give them even more credit because they all showed up for the induction ceremonies!!!

**BigAl** · 03-19-2018, 08:11 PM

At first, Lois was not included since the organization contended that she was not with the group during its years of top hits. Martha dug in her heels and eventually persuaded them to include all living former Vandellas signed to Hitsville.

**captainjames** · 03-19-2018, 08:25 PM

GREAT PIC
and great they were all there except Sandra. Hopefully, someone from her family was there.

**bradsupremes** · 03-19-2018, 08:33 PM

I don't believe Sandra was inducted. The Rock Hall website doesn't have her listed as an inductee and if you've ever visted the museum, they have engraved walls of signatures of all inductees [[living and deceased). Sandra isn't there.

**luke** · 03-19-2018, 08:42 PM

When were the Shirelles inducted?

**marybrewster** · 03-19-2018, 08:51 PM

I think it's commendable that the Rock Hall/Martha included all [[?) Vandellas in the induction.

**marybrewster** · 03-19-2018, 08:55 PM

Vandellas inducted in 1995.

Shirelles inducted in 1996.

Just checked the Rock Hall website; Sandra is not listed with the Vandellas.

**midnightman** · 03-19-2018, 10:02 PM

Yeah, the Shirelles were inducted a year after the Vandellas were.

**motony** · 03-20-2018, 12:55 PM

It was Martha that insisted that all her living Vandellas be inducted.

**TheMotownManiac** · 03-20-2018, 02:40 PM

Martha must have more pull than Diana who could not get them to include Cindy without Mary agreeing. Had they inducted Dr&ts, Diana could have said what went down, but she was only 1/3 of “The Supremes.”

**marv2** · 03-20-2018, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

Martha must have more pull than Diana who could not get them to include Cindy without Mary agreeing. Had they inducted Dr&ts, Diana could have said what went down, but she was only 1/3 of “The Supremes.”

Who cares what Diana Ross thinks? She didn't even show up to be inducted and the Hall has never forgotten it!

**marybrewster** · 03-20-2018, 03:13 PM

I seem to recall Diana not wanting much to do with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction. I'm pretty certain it was Mary who had "say" on who was included. Cindy and Jean should have been recognized. Perhaps Scherrie and Susaye too, but that would have meant Lynda and honey, that wasn't happening.

Perhaps Cindy will make her way through the Bluebells. It's a long shot as most likely it would be LaBelle, but perhaps Patti might make a push.

**marybrewster** · 03-20-2018, 03:16 PM

Regardless, this is about Martha, Nettie, Roz, Betty, and Lois. Somewhere I've seen a clip of them all performing at the induction: Martha on a mic, Roz and Betty sharing a mic, Lois on a mic, and Nettie on a mic.

**marv2** · 03-20-2018, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

Regardless, this is about Martha, Nettie, Roz, Betty, and Lois. Somewhere I've seen a clip of them all performing at the induction: Martha on a mic, Roz and Betty sharing a mic, Lois on a mic, and Nettie on a mic.

I saw that too. It was great. They all sang and then individually thanked Martha.

**midnightman** · 03-20-2018, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

Regardless, this is about Martha, Nettie, Roz, Betty, and Lois. Somewhere I've seen a clip of them all performing at the induction: Martha on a mic, Roz and Betty sharing a mic, Lois on a mic, and Nettie on a mic.

I recalled that too. Classic moment. Makes me wish they do it now. Well maybe not Betty, think she's pretty much retired but the other four can do it one more time.

**bradsupremes** · 03-20-2018, 11:12 PM

The Rock Hall makes the final decision on who gets inducted. I was an intern at the Rock Hall and this was confirmed to me by my supervisor who is a voting member on the board. Martha and Mary may have made their suggestions to the Rock Hall about who they wanted included, but they did not have the final say. If you have group members feuding with each other and one tells the Rock Hall they don't want the other included, do you think the Rock Hall will exclude members of a band because one member demands the others be left out? Martha's pull may have been more because she was asking for inclusion, not exclusion.

Should Cindy and Jean have been included? Absolutely, but the Rock Hall felt the original trio was the only grouping that had most influence and importance. Look at the exclusion of Richard Street from the Temptations induction. Joe Long was left out of the Four Seasons induction and he was on many of their big hits. This is not unique to the Supremes and there are many bands where groups members were left out of induction that should have been included. Other examples are the Beach Boys and the Kinks, etc. It's the Rock Hall and in the end they have the final say.

**Roberta75** · 03-21-2018, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Who cares what Diana Ross thinks? She didn't even show up to be inducted and the Hall has never forgotten it!

But they must have forgot it cause Diana Ross and the Four tops perform I Can't Help Myself at the 1990 Hall of Fame Inductions Ceremony and she did a Billie Holiday number at the RRHOF in 2007 so they did forget the snub you or Mary Wilson "think" they held.

**jobeterob** · 03-21-2018, 12:26 AM

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...133A&FORM=VIRE

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

The Rock Hall makes the final decision on who gets inducted. I was an intern at the Rock Hall and this was confirmed to me by my supervisor who is a voting member on the board. Martha and Mary may have made their suggestions to the Rock Hall about who they wanted included, but they did not have the final say. If you have group members feuding with each other and one tells the Rock Hall they don't want the other included, do you think the Rock Hall will exclude members of a band because one member demands the others be left out? Martha's pull may have been more because she was asking for inclusion, not exclusion.

Should Cindy and Jean have been included? Absolutely, but the Rock Hall felt the original trio was the only grouping that had most influence and importance. Look at the exclusion of Richard Street from the Temptations induction. Joe Long was left out of the Four Seasons induction and he was on many of their big hits. This is not unique to the Supremes and there are many bands where groups members were left out of induction that should have been included. Other examples are the Beach Boys and the Kinks, etc. It's the Rock Hall and in the end they have the final say.

Randy Jackson was not included in the Jackson 5 induction and if you noticed, they mentioned the songs they did when he was in the group but people will remember the original lineup of Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon and Michael before thinking of Randy. Richard Street and Damon Harris may have had prominence on "Papa" but it wasn't enough to include them because it was after Papa that the top ten pop hits [[and influence) dried up on the Tempts front.

That's why if folks ask you about the Temptations, they're gonna mention David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks and Dennis Edwards before they mention Richard Street, Ron Tyson or Damon Harris.

But you saying that the Rock Hall [[and not Martha) chose who got in must mean the HOF knew who were the more important members of MR&TV's. If they wanted to include Sandra Tilley, they would've. She didn't contribute much so she didn't. Tough.

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 01:37 AM

This also brings another controversial point that few Supremes fans MAY not wanna hear: maybe Cindy was wrong when she said Mary had stopped her from getting inducted with the other members... like if Martha didn't have the final say in which Vandella got inducted [[meaning they did think it made sense to include Lois in the induction tally after all), then Mary didn't have final say on which Supreme was getting in since it was all clear who the HOF wanted in.

**marv2** · 03-21-2018, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

This also brings another controversial point that few Supremes fans MAY not wanna hear: maybe Cindy was wrong when she said Mary had stopped her from getting inducted with the other members... like if Martha didn't have the final say in which Vandella got inducted [[meaning they did think it made sense to include Lois in the induction tally after all), then Mary didn't have final say on which Supreme was getting in since it was all clear who the HOF wanted in.

They also did not induct Barbara Martin and she was an Original Supreme! Yes she recorded and performed with the group before they finally hit it big, but she was there when the first went to Motown.

**TheMotownManiac** · 03-21-2018, 05:24 AM

Cindy was far more important to the group than Betty Kelly or Roz was. She performed 100s of concerts with DR&TS, starred in 2 TV specials, appeared several gold and platinum singles and albums, etc. I think all 60s Supremes belonged except Babs as she was never famous, and not Jean either as she only sang on 2 top ten singles that haven’t really remained in the public consciousness like Stop!, I’m Coming Out etc. I can see Jean being left out, but, personally, I’d have included all Supremes.

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 07:50 AM

Well that may be true but that ain't what the HOF was looking at. Like I said, Richard Street did just as much for the Tempts and stayed with them for 21 years [[one of the longest tenures a Temptation has had since the group's foundation). The HOF didn't think he was important enough to be in it. Same as they thought Cindy wasn't important. It sucks because I agree with y'all. She should've been inducted BUT the HOF didn't think that at the time AND now. They hadn't bothered to correct it. Same with Richard Street and Damon Harris not being inducted with the other Temptations at least.

Yet somehow Lois gets inducted with the other Vandellas. Take it up with those folks in Cleveland lol

**floyjoy678** · 03-21-2018, 09:34 AM

It would make sense that Martha would have some kind of influence being that Lois is her sister. If it really came down to who was in the group during it's successful years it'd only have been Martha, Rosalind, Annette and Betty.

As far as the Supremes both Diana and Mary have said in their own ways that the group was over after Flo left and didn't really consider Cindy a real Supreme, just a replacement. Everything after she came into the group was just a formality. But once again Cindy was there at the end of the successful years so she deserved to be there if you ask me.

**floyjoy678** · 03-21-2018, 09:41 AM

Also if Lois was inducted, Sandy should have been as well. Much as I love Martha, I do think she tries to down play the Vandellas like when she states that there's been over 100 of them, implying that it doesn't matter who's behind her.

**marv2** · 03-21-2018, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Well that may be true but that ain't what the HOF was looking at. Like I said, Richard Street did just as much for the Tempts and stayed with them for 21 years [[one of the longest tenures a Temptation has had since the group's foundation). The HOF didn't think he was important enough to be in it. Same as they thought Cindy wasn't important. It sucks because I agree with y'all. She should've been inducted BUT the HOF didn't think that at the time AND now. They hadn't bothered to correct it. Same with Richard Street and Damon Harris not being inducted with the other Temptations at least.

Yet somehow Lois gets inducted with the other Vandellas. Take it up with those folks in Cleveland lol

That is also how they feel about Diana Ross' solo career. It was not important enough to warrant an individual induction like they did for Smokey Robinson.

**marv2** · 03-21-2018, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by floyjoy678

It would make sense that Martha would have some kind of influence being that Lois is her sister. If it really came down to who was in the group during it's successful years it'd only have been Martha, Rosalind, Annette and Betty.

As far as the Supremes both Diana and Mary have said in their own ways that the group was over after Flo left and didn't really consider Cindy a real Supreme, just a replacement. Everything after she came into the group was just a formality. But once again Cindy was there at the end of the successful years so she deserved to be there if you ask me.

Yeah, but like so many people on here like to get into saying that Cindy was not on this record, or that record and that it was the Andantes blah, blah, blah! Why aren't the Andantes inducted into the Hall then?

**drlorne** · 03-21-2018, 11:01 AM

Thank you Jobeterob for the Diana Ross, Billie Holiday tribute. WOW to sing Strange Fruit acapella, what a wonderful job.
Thanks

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

That is also how they feel about Diana Ross' solo career. It was not important enough to warrant an individual induction like they did for Smokey Robinson.

Smokey Robinson's solo induction was a mistake. Smokey started his solo career in, what, 1973? You have to have a career lasting 25 years to be inducted. The HOF controversially excluded the other Miracles because they thought only Smokey should be in. Took them 25 years to correct that bullsh*t! TWENTY FIVE YEARS. Smokey being solely inducted to the Songwriters Hall of Fame made better sense than the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. That committee wasn't thinking of no doggone Cruisin', Being With You, Quiet Storm and Baby That's Backatcha when Smokey got the solo induction in 1987. COME ON.

If Diana's solo work don't equal HOF induction, why is Madonna in? Why did Janet Jackson get recommended for HOF induction twice? Why is Donna Summer in?

Some stuff the HOF does is questionable. We ain't talking about former group lead singers who turned solo and became successful, we're talking about singers who either sang in a group or simply sang background. The HOF made a lot of mistakes when it came to Motown [[and female performers)...

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by floyjoy678

Also if Lois was inducted, Sandy should have been as well. Much as I love Martha, I do think she tries to down play the Vandellas like when she states that there's been over 100 of them, implying that it doesn't matter who's behind her.

This is what confuses me about this induction. Just strengthens the argument that, as I said, Cindy and Richard should've been inducted with their groups if the HOF decided who got in or who didn't. Like for years, I believed the stories that Mary and Martha played a hand in who got in only to now be told that's not how it's exactly done [[which defeats the purpose that James Brown and Smokey Robinson didn't demand solo inductions when they each got in).

**Roberta75** · 03-21-2018, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

That is also how they feel about Diana Ross' solo career. It was not important enough to warrant an individual induction like they did for Smokey Robinson.

More of your alternative facts. LOL

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

They also did not induct Barbara Martin and she was an Original Supreme! Yes she recorded and performed with the group before they finally hit it big, but she was there when the first went to Motown.

Barbara wasn't on no hits, Cindy was with the group nearly ten years. Barbara's input in the Supremes is really minuscule when compared to what CINDY contributed to it. Also why wasn't Gloria Williams not included in the Vandellas induction since she sang on I Have to Let Him Go? That's like saying "oh yeah she should be there because she sang notes here". Lois definitely added SOME contribution to the continued success of the Vandellas until 1969 at least. Why wasn't Al Bryant inducted with the Temptations despite being in the group for three years? Oh yeah, no one remembers him. People remember Cindy. Like I said, the HOF decides who gets in and you can also say they made mistakes [[as I mentioned about Smokey being solely inducted for a stupid reason in 1987) but if we're gonna compare it to a non-Motown act, let's go to Nirvana.

OK, when Nirvana got inducted [[after their first nomination) some years ago [[I done forgot the year but it was a recent induction), Chad Channing was with them on their first album, Bleach [[which is not as good as Nevermind or In Utero but it's a decent album anyways because Kurt Cobain was just a beast). When Nirvana got inducted, Chad IMMEDIATELY thought he was gonna get in with Dave Grohl [[the drummer who replaced him), Krist Novoselic and Kurt and then found out the HOF only inducted Dave, Krist and Kurt. Despite Channing being on Bleach, he was not included in the induction. If we're gonna argue about Barbara Martin or Gloria Williams or Al Bryant, just look at how they treated other so-called "original members" that no one seems to remember. Why wasn't Bill Isles inducted with the O'Jays but Bobby Massey was?

I'm just bringing this all up not to have another off topic discussion since most of these threads tend to go when folks go left, but to ask, why some guys get in over others? Why did Lois Reeves get inducted when neither Gloria Williams and Sandra Talley were even a thought in the committee's mind? You see what I'm saying. I mean we all kinda agree the HOF does what it wants but we have weird opinions as to why!

**marv2** · 03-21-2018, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Smokey Robinson's solo induction was a mistake. Smokey started his solo career in, what, 1973? You have to have a career lasting 25 years to be inducted. The HOF controversially excluded the other Miracles because they thought only Smokey should be in. Took them 25 years to correct that bullsh*t! TWENTY FIVE YEARS. Smokey being solely inducted to the Songwriters Hall of Fame made better sense than the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. That committee wasn't thinking of no doggone Cruisin', Being With You, Quiet Storm and Baby That's Backatcha when Smokey got the solo induction in 1987. COME ON.

If Diana's solo work don't equal HOF induction, why is Madonna in? Why did Janet Jackson get recommended for HOF induction twice? Why is Donna Summer in?

Some stuff the HOF does is questionable. We ain't talking about former group lead singers who turned solo and became successful, we're talking about singers who either sang in a group or simply sang background. The HOF made a lot of mistakes when it came to Motown [[and female performers)...

Was Smokey inducted only as a performer or also as a songwriter?

**marv2** · 03-21-2018, 12:39 PM

Ben E. King was inducted twice. So were Curtis Mayfield, Eric Clapton, Neil Young, Paul McCartney just to name a few of the artists that were inducted twice. Once for their work with their groups and once for their solo careers. Diana Ross has not and will not be recognized for her "solo career". Her best work was as one of the Supremes.

**Roberta75** · 03-21-2018, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Ben E. King was inducted twice. So were Curtis Mayfield, Eric Clapton, Neil Young, Paul McCartney just to name a few of the artists that were inducted twice. Once for their work with their groups and once for their solo careers. Diana Ross has not and will not be recognized for her "solo career". Her best work was as one of the Supremes.

You have NO idea about Diane Ross getting recognized by the RRHOF. Just because you dont want the RRHOF to iduct her [[which is real pathetic on your part IMO) doesnt make it true. LOL

**RanRan79** · 03-21-2018, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Ben E. King was inducted twice. So were Curtis Mayfield, Eric Clapton, Neil Young, Paul McCartney just to name a few of the artists that were inducted twice. Once for their work with their groups and once for their solo careers. Diana Ross has not and will not be recognized for her "solo career". Her best work was as one of the Supremes.

Any idea what all those artists you've just named have in common? That's right, they all have penises. The HOF has been repeatedly criticized for favoring men over women. [[A Google search just produced a tentative estimate of over 300 men being inducted while only 40 some odd women have been and no woman being inducted twice.) There are probably two things keeping Diana out of the hall at the moment:

1) She's already in as a member of the Supremes
2) She's a woman

Fan of her work or not, only an idiot couldn't see that her solo career is obviously deserving of induction. [[She was in the Guinness Book of World Records for her group work combined with her solo work. She never would've gotten in that book without a successful solo career.) I'm betting there will be a time when she does get in. Whether she'll be around to see it or not is debatable.

But if Diana Ross is ever inducted into the hall within the next couple of years, because I will be laughing hysterically, I'll barely have the strength to come into SD to create a thread whose first post simply says "Diana Ross has not and will not be recognized for her 'solo career'." That's all the post will say. Marv would you be man enough to enter the thread and simply reply "I was wrong"??

**RanRan79** · 03-21-2018, 05:01 PM

I'm guessing the rules are very arbitrary when it comes to who is inducted because there is no way Lois Reeves should be in and Cindy Birdsong isn't. Sorry, but that's downright criminal.

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

I'm guessing the rules are very arbitrary when it comes to who is inducted because there is no way Lois Reeves should be in and Cindy Birdsong isn't. Sorry, but that's downright criminal.

Right!

Like I said, the Hall has done a lot of mistakes...

**bradsupremes** · 03-21-2018, 06:36 PM

For every one thing the Rock Hall gets right, they have 10 things that go wrong. This goes right back to the very founding. Should Percy Sledge be in the Rock Hall? Hell no, but somehow he's in there. There is no way to understand why these things happen. Even my supervisor couldn't answer why, but they do and it doesn't look like they plan on fixing these errors any time soon. There are groups/bands to this day that have yet to be nominated. Look at the Moody Blues. They're getting inducted next month, but they were ignored for YEARS. Mary Wells was nominated twice in the early 90's around the time of her death, but the momentum for her stopped. Junior Walker should be in. The Marvelettes should be in. Unfortunately I don't see any movement on the Rock Hall's part to get them in. Nowadays it seems they have shifted their focus to bands and artists of the 80's. You can thank Jann Wenner for that.

As for Diana's solo career, should she be in a solo artist? Yes, but in Rock Hall logic, she's already in the Hall and there's no need to put her in again when there are other artists to nominate. There is definitely a bias though. It's a club for old, dead white men who play guitar. They certainly love their Beatles, Stones, and Springsteens. When I was an intern there, several of the women in the Curatorial Department pushed to have a Women Who Rock exhibit focusing on the women who were so overshadowed. It was a great exhibit, but the Rock Hall has a long way to go.

**BigAl** · 03-21-2018, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

I'm guessing the rules are very arbitrary when it comes to who is inducted because there is no way Lois Reeves should be in and Cindy Birdsong isn't. Sorry, but that's downright criminal.

By Martha's account, it was very difficult getting Lois included. She engaged in what amounted to a very fierce struggle of wills with the Hall over this, wearing down their resolve, before they finally relented and agreed to include her, no doubt because she wouldn't abandon the effort. Perhaps no one put up such a concerted fight to include Cindy. Diane certainly wouldn't have, and Mary's never been a fighter. Who else would have had the clout to go to the mat on Cindy's behalf?

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 06:44 PM

Hmm...

So... are Martha and Cindy telling the truth then?

**bradsupremes** · 03-21-2018, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by BigAl

By Martha's account, it was very difficult getting Lois included. She engaged in what amounted to a very fierce struggle of wills with the Hall over this, wearing down their resolve, before they finally relented and agreed to include her, no doubt because she wouldn't abandon the effort. Perhaps no one put up such a concerted fight to include Cindy. Diane certainly wouldn't have, and Mary's never been a fighter. Who else would have had the clout to go to the mat on Cindy's behalf?

By this, the Rock Hall original intent was induct to Martha, Roz, Annette, and Betty - the lineups when the group was most influential. Martha fought for Lois and through pressure got her included. Is it safe to say now Sandra was not inducted?

**midnightman** · 03-21-2018, 09:25 PM

Here's MR&TV's page on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame website:
https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/martha-and-vandellas

No mention of Sandra.

**TheMotownManiac** · 03-22-2018, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by BigAl

By Martha's account, it was very difficult getting Lois included. She engaged in what amounted to a very fierce struggle of wills with the Hall over this, wearing down their resolve, before they finally relented and agreed to include her, no doubt because she wouldn't abandon the effort. Perhaps no one put up such a concerted fight to include Cindy. Diane certainly wouldn't have, and Mary's never been a fighter. Who else would have had the clout to go to the mat on Cindy's behalf?

Cindy told me that Diana was going to get her included, then it never happened. I don’t know why you’d think a diana wouldn’t try. She certainly could have felt it warranted and wanted to be fair, or perhaps had an ulterior motive [[or, as I believe) a combination of both. If you recall, Diana was not too fond of Mary at the time and Mary made it known she did not want Cindy included. Mary was FURIOUS with Cindy for joining The Flos so perhaps Diana wanted Cindy to piss off Mary. Also, Diana ay have felt more like attending if Cindy was there so she wouldn’t have to be stuck just with Mary. Mary is just the opposite, she wants only to be with Diana and no other Supremes. Who knows? But that WAS the drama back then.

**midnightman** · 03-22-2018, 07:16 AM

Yeah I figured Cindy said that. Crazy mess. :/

**RanRan79** · 03-22-2018, 08:44 AM

I'd be surprised that Diana cared who got inducted at that point, though I suspect both she and Mary would've been on the same page if the hall wished to exclude Florence and induct Cindy instead. I wish Diana had said "F Mary" and went to the ceremony since she was such an obviously integral part as to why the group was being inducted in the first place. But Cindy definitely deserved to be in. And again, if Lois Reeves is in, I feel like Jean Terrell should be retroactively added in since she did more to further the Supremes legacy than Lois did as a Vandella. And for the record I have nothing against Lois. My only issue is with the HOF inducting her and not Cindy.

**luke** · 03-22-2018, 01:51 PM

I have never seen a direct quote from Cindy that Mary prevented her from induction. I think JRT said that in his first Diana book, though I could be wrong. In his next book he went out of his way to affirm Mary in general. Diana had no desire to affirm the Supremes, especially at that time. Graciously Mary “covered” for her. Mary hoped Diana would come. She didn’t say f....her.

**marv2** · 03-22-2018, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by luke

I have never seen a direct quote from Cindy that Mary prevented her from induction. I think JRT said that in his first Diana book, though I could be wrong. In his next book he went out of his way to affirm Mary in general. Diana had no desire to affirm the Supremes, especially at that time. Graciously Mary “covered” for her. Mary hoped Diana would come. She didn’t say f....her.

Nope, but Mike Love of the Beach Boys did when it was his turn to speak.....he slammed her! LOL!!!!

**RanRan79** · 03-22-2018, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Graciously Mary “covered” for her. Mary hoped Diana would come. She didn’t say f....her.

What did Mary cover? It wasn't like Diana was gonna be in trouble for not showing up. Who was gonna whoop her ass? Who was gonna "ground" her and take away her telephone privileges? And wasn't Diana pregnant or just had a baby at the time? Maybe her family came first. Whatever her reasons, she had a right to them.