Marvelettes - from 68 on

[sup_fan]

obviously the departure of Glady's seriously impacted the future of the Marvelettes. Sophisticated Soul is a GREAT lp

what are your thoughts on what could have been done to keep them hot? Magician did well and I really like Here I am Baby. keeps that sexy cool Wanda vocal going but changes things a bit from Bill, Hunter and Magician.

Destination Anywhere is also a great track. even though by A&S, I think it fits nicely with the Smokey work the group was doing

And what about Ann? I like her vocals and they're exciting. but the sound was a total departure for the group. maybe too far a departure?

[BayouMotownMan]

Gladys' leaving didn't have much impact on the group as Wanda had done all leads on singles for a couple years. I think the downfall was brought about strictly because of the strife within the group. Wanda was out of control. I think Gordy was pretty much finished with the group by 1967 but Smokey really liked working with Wanda and he did bring new life to the group. By the end of 1968 it was pretty obvious the Marvelettes were finished

[sup_fan]

it's too bad they couldn't keep things together. S Soul is an excellent lp. I think almost as strong as the Pink album.

[Motown Eddie]

obviously the departure of Glady's seriously impacted the future of the Marvelettes. Sophisticated Soul is a GREAT lp

what are your thoughts on what could have been done to keep them hot? Magician did well and I really like Here I am Baby. keeps that sexy cool Wanda vocal going but changes things a bit from Bill, Hunter and Magician.

Destination Anywhere is also a great track. even though by A&S, I think it fits nicely with the Smokey work the group was doing

And what about Ann? I like her vocals and they're exciting. but the sound was a total departure for the group. maybe too far a departure?

The real problem for The Marvelettes at this time was Wanda Rogers. Even though she was a great vocalist, her behavior had become erratic and this is one reason that B.G. washed his hands of the group [[and her actions probably hurt The Marvelettes standing with concert promoters & DJs). As for Ann Bogan, she's only the lead vocalist on one track each of Sophisticated Soul & In Full Bloom so there wasn't a 'departure' from the sound of the group. Also, this was the era when Motown threw most of it's weight behind Diana Ross & the Supremes [[and launching Diana as a superstar).

[RanRan79]

Definitely agree with those who say Wanda was the issue. Smokey certainly had a fondness for her, so think of what heights the Marvelettes would have risen to in the late 60s if the label was willing to put it's support behind the group. They were definitely still recording [[and releasing) some dynamite stuff. I wish someone had pushed Wanda to get some help. In the end her behavior cost the group and it cheated Wanda out of what might have been a successful solo career.

[motony]

Gladys was the glue that kept things together , ask Kat. Gladys would "fight" for the group too with Motown.

[arr&bee]

Good post,i get kind of sad when i think of what might have been for my favorite girl group of all time,but they had a nice early to late sixties run,i too think that once berry got the supremes going he forgot about both the marvelettes and the vandellas as far as any big push,god bless smokey for keeping wanda,ann,kat going and staying on the charts.

[sup_fan]

the Marvelettes book is an interesting one to read. what I found most intriguing was Gladys' opinion as to the range and potential for the Marvelettes. she very clearly felt their strong point was the r&b circuit - the Howard, Apollo, Uptown, etc. She really felt that supper clubs and doing standards just wasn't in their range.

makes you wonder where they might have gone into the very late 60s and early 70s. their name was certainly dated. but as the r&b scene really expanded, curious to think what they might have done with Gladys and Wanda sharing leads.

[kenneth]

Such a rich subject area. As many who read SDF know, the Marvelettes are my all time favorite Motown group, and Wanda my favorite singer.

I think as a group the Marvelettes lacked the identity of three individual singers, unlike the Supremes or the Vandellas. Everyone knew Diane, Mary and Flo [[and later Cindy). Everyone knew Martha if not the identities of the two Vandellas behind her. But the Marvelettes, while achieving a lot of versatility by employing two different lead singers, often did it without listeners really being aware of it. I mean, Gladys' and Wanda's voice were really quite similar. Both had the same "middle" range, I would say; however, Gladys had an earthier bottom range and Wanda had a higher and at times even used a falsetto [[which I loved but many find irritating).

I think that was part of the problem, the lack of individual identity within the group. I also think their name held them back some because it harkened back to earlier time in music, especially girl groups. I'm sure Wanda's personal problems, as many have said, also contributed to their downfall.

Even so, during their least commercial period, they put out wonderful albums. I remember one book that reviewed albums of the 60s praised the "In Full Bloom" album. The book was by a music critic [[maybe issued by Rolling Stone, though I'm not sure now). I remember the writer saying something like, "Who would know that 'In Full Bloom' was not just some publicist's idea for a good album title, but actually true in terms of the talent and versatility by the group?" I think he was right. My very favorite Marvelettes album is "Return," which of course was not really a Marvelettes album, but was it much less of a Marvelettes album than "In Full Bloom" or even "Sophisticated Soul," which, although each had an Ann Bogan lead, probably employed as many Andantes as Marvelettes? I think not.

Still and all, I always tell myself that Motown did stick with its groups longer than did most record companies. No other girl groups anywhere else had 10 albums to their name in those days. The three major girl groups at Motown all had [[at least) around this number of LPs. That's a big thing which I think we should all be grateful for. Most other girl groups at the time had maybe a couple LPs, and maybe had only one. The Bluebelles may have had three or four [[before they became Labelle), but so many others didn't even have that many [[the Toys [[1), the Flirtations [[1), the Ronettes [[1), the Crystals [[2 I think). Only the Shirelles and the 3 Degrees even came close, I think they had five or six maybe each. The few who survived into the 70s like Labelle and the 3 Degrees totally reworked their sound and image to stay current. And we have to remember that some girl groups, like our beloved Velvelettes, didn't even have one album! So I'm always grateful the Marvelettes had the output that they did, even though as a collector I always want more!

[midnightman]

I always say when it came to the Marvelettes, Wanda Rogers was the voice, Katherine Anderson-Schnaffer was the consistent member and Gladys Horton was the group's heart AND soul.

When the Marvelettes first came out, they were a force to be reckoned with. I see why Gladys didn't wanna do the supper club circuit that the other acts were doing, their style was definitely street-oriented [[any group that records songs like Too Many Fish in the Sea and I'll Keep Holding On with Wanda sassying it up with "oh yeah sho nuff!", it'll be hard to break them out of that comfort zone). By 1966, Motown was trying to go above the typical pop/R&B/rock and roll label and the Marvelettes probably decided to stick to their guns rather than go the "extra mile" and that probably cost them but they didn't care as long as they had each other, right?

But once members either started leaving [[by illness or family reasons), they couldn't stay glued. I always say had Gladys stayed, the Marvelettes would've been able to survive the end of the '60s. Her leaving spelled the end. Literally. And with Wanda's issues with drugs and alcohol, is it no surprise?

I don't know WHAT could've saved that group. They were great and had potential to be greater... I just wished people realize how magnificent they were as a whole [[Gladys, Katherine, Wanda, Georgeanna, Juanita and Georgia).

But as Kenneth said, for Motown to keep them around for almost a full decade [[with ten full albums) when most other girl groups from that period were dropped quickly and without much fanfare does say a lot about how Motown looked after their artists so I give them that and thank them for making the Inkster girls into a national phenomenon.

[sup_fan]

I have to say, between the two voices, I prefer Gladys'. I just find her tone and style so appealing. there's just a touch of raspy-ness that makes it stand out. She comes across as your "wide older sister" telling you how things are. Whereas Mary Wells came across more like a young woman in her 20s. And Diana came across as a woman you're age [[at least until DRATS changed things).

I do enjoy Wanda on a lot of songs but find her falsetto a bit too harsh and shrill. But she could "purr" almost like Eartha Kitt.

Your point about group identity is very accurate. In watching period videos of all sorts of groups and singers, most of them fail to really come across as fresh and vital. they're still, young, immature, lack of showmanship, etc. Probably the Sups were like this too, to some degree when they started. But each of the 3 sups really had an entertainer's mindset and presence - whether natural or coached by Motown. MR&TV and the Marvelettes really seemed to just be more anonymous, like many of the other groups around

[Zantellor]

The Marveletttes could have been revamped and hit big. Ann can sang. Its said Gladys wanted to return. Wanda should have got the utimatium clean up or get out.Ann's voice could have been up there with all the disco divas. Strong and clear. Gladys always great. Do not forget Gladys was inventive. She invented all The Marvelettes early presentations. Put them in the hands of a producer who understood 70s soul and disco and they could have lasted well into the80s

[arr&bee]

I love their group name[marvelettes]it just stands out to me,i feel lucky to have seen them at the howard back in the day[and they were great]but as much as love them i have to say this,they killed it on the chittlin circuit but they would not have made it in the supper clubs because their harmony was not the best,and that would've sunk them.

[kenneth]

I love their group name[marvelettes]it just stands out to me,i feel lucky to have seen them at the howard back in the day[and they were great]but as much as love them i have to say this,they killed it on the chittlin circuit but they would not have made it in the supper clubs because their harmony was not the best,and that would've sunk them.

I think you're right for the most part. Don't they do "Don't Fence Me In" or some song like that on one of the box sets? It's hardly recognizable as the old [[Autry? Roy Rogers? who sang it?) standard from the 40s.

I do think that some "sophisticated" material they likely could have handled, but especially if you're considering the post-Gladys time frame, Wanda's voice was fairly idiosyncratic and wasn't suited to material which required a "big voice." Over the years though, the group hardly delved into even what you might term some near-standards although the few they did, they did well, such as "Message to Michael" [[with Gladys on vocal). I wish they had done more covers. I love the "Smash Hits of '62" album even though their voices are still pretty raw. But they still perform some of the well known songs beautifully, such as "Love Letters" [[Wanda). And a couple of their own tunes kind of sound like standards, for example "Forever" [[Wanda again).

[arr&bee]

You do know that the audantes sang background on some of those songs.

[kenneth]

You do know that the audantes sang background on some of those songs.

Of course you're right. I was just thinking of how the lead handled the particular material. I'm sure the Andantes were on the pink album, but the '62 album would have predated their time at Motown, I think.

[midnightman]

I have to say, between the two voices, I prefer Gladys'. I just find her tone and style so appealing. there's just a touch of raspy-ness that makes it stand out. She comes across as your "wide older sister" telling you how things are. Whereas Mary Wells came across more like a young woman in her 20s. And Diana came across as a woman you're age [[at least until DRATS changed things).

I do enjoy Wanda on a lot of songs but find her falsetto a bit too harsh and shrill. But she could "purr" almost like Eartha Kitt.

Your point about group identity is very accurate. In watching period videos of all sorts of groups and singers, most of them fail to really come across as fresh and vital. they're still, young, immature, lack of showmanship, etc. Probably the Sups were like this too, to some degree when they started. But each of the 3 sups really had an entertainer's mindset and presence - whether natural or coached by Motown. MR&TV and the Marvelettes really seemed to just be more anonymous, like many of the other groups around

Great point. Seems like to me, Diana, Mary and Florence [[or Diana & Mary at least) wanted to not only be singers but also to entertain the world, they seemed ready for where Motown was going whereas the others just wanted to sing to audiences.

[midnightman]

The Marveletttes could have been revamped and hit big. Ann can sang. Its said Gladys wanted to return. Wanda should have got the utimatium clean up or get out.Ann's voice could have been up there with all the disco divas. Strong and clear. Gladys always great. Do not forget Gladys was inventive. She invented all The Marvelettes early presentations. Put them in the hands of a producer who understood 70s soul and disco and they could have lasted well into the80s

That's why I call Gladys the heart and the soul of the group. She honestly is the one you can say was the founder of a group since she's the one to put the group together. I admire her work ethic. She was HUNGRY and you can tell in those early songs.

[Fullfillingnessfirstfinale]

In my opinion we have here the marvelous sophisticated Marvelettes, I like the group very much and I like the two lead singers two. I think The pink album, Sophisticated Soul and In Full Bloom are the highlights, the cream of the crop. I say it again, they made a big fault, the group would have had a chance to be still alive and to go into the seventies with the great Ann Bogan, her two tracks are the tickets into the 70´s and the unreleased songs "Breakthru" and "Why´d you do it" too. The group should made Ann as new Lead singer.

[RanRan79]

In my opinion we have here the marvelous sophisticated Marvelettes, I like the group very much and I like the two lead singers two. I think The pink album, Sophisticated Soul and In Full Bloom are the highlights, the cream of the crop. I say it again, they made a big fault, the group would have had a chance to be still alive and to go into the seventies with the great Ann Bogan, her two tracks are the tickets into the 70´s and the unreleased songs "Breakthru" and "Why´d you do it" too. The group should made Ann as new Lead singer.

The Marvelettes needed a new name. Wanda should have been cleaned up and readied for a solo career. I love the idea of Ann taking over as lead. I wonder if Wanda being kept around despite her issues was because the label still believed there was money to be made off the name in addition to Wanda being "the voice" of the group at that point. I wonder if Gladys had stayed with the group, would Wanda have been out on her ass and the Marvelettes get more of Motown's attention with the "problem" removed?

[Motown Eddie]

I think you're right for the most part. Don't they do "Don't Fence Me In" or some song like that on one of the box sets? It's hardly recognizable as the old [[Autry? Roy Rogers? who sang it?) standard from the 40s.

I do think that some "sophisticated" material they likely could have handled, but especially if you're considering the post-Gladys time frame, Wanda's voice was fairly idiosyncratic and wasn't suited to material which required a "big voice." Over the years though, the group hardly delved into even what you might term some near-standards although the few they did, they did well, such as "Message to Michael" [[with Gladys on vocal). I wish they had done more covers. I love the "Smash Hits of '62" album even though their voices are still pretty raw. But they still perform some of the well known songs beautifully, such as "Love Letters" [[Wanda). And a couple of their own tunes kind of sound like standards, for example "Forever" [[Wanda again).

Yes Kenneth, The Marvelettes did record a version of the standard "Don't Fence Me In" [[which was in the vaults until the release of the group's second box set, Forever More). However, I don't think the song as they performed it would appeal to the audiences that went to The Copa or Vegas. As other posters have said, The Marvelettes name might have had to be changed [[since it does tie-in with the bygone era of early '60s girl groups) if they were to continue to have success with Motown in the late '60s [[along with either rehab or replacement for Wanda Rogers).

[motony]

The Marvelettes were a rock n roll/soul act and could have easily carried on as such if Gladys had come back and/or Wanda didn't have her demons, if Kat had wanted to continue ect. Playing Vegas & the Supper Clubs didn't have to be the Standard. Could you imagine the Rolling Stones or Led Zepplin playing the Copa? or Parliament/Funkadelic putting some funk in your prime rib?

[Motown Eddie]

Adding to everything else that posters have already said, there's this statement by Katherine [[from the Forever More collection) that points out that Motown did not have any long term plans for The Marvelettes going forward into the late '60s [[if they did Wanda Rogers would've been replaced like David Ruffin was and they might have considered changing the group's name). On the plus side, the company did stick with The Marvelettes throughout the decade and they did revamp the group's style & sound during that time [[from the girl-group sounds of "Please Mr. Postman" to the soulful sophistication of "A Breath Taking Guy").

[arr&bee]

Speaking of[breath taking guy]had motown released this one during the disco era,they and the marvelettes would've had a hit on their hands..those of you with the song take a listen.

[Fullfillingnessfirstfinale]

The last album "Return of The Marvelettes" has two different faces for me, on one hand you have sound, the teamwork Smokey & Wanda, definetly the potential to go into a new decade, on the other hand you have the cover, which shows there is no longer a group togehter, only a solo singer and it was a sign for the end of the groups career.
It is interesting to see a line goes up with Marvelettes and the groups development.
You have the early years with the girls sound and then the growing up, The Pink album, Sophisticated Soul, In full bloom are two masterpieces and then The Return....you have here a perfect sound, one voice but no group.

[motony]

when Kat said "no" to being photographed for he LP [[even though she sang on "Uptown"), and Motown did not want it released under Wandas name....that was it.

[marv2]

That's why I call Gladys the heart and the soul of the group. She honestly is the one you can say was the founder of a group since she's the one to put the group together. I admire her work ethic. She was HUNGRY and you can tell in those early songs.

Gladys was also the one that continued to perform live up until her health failed her.

[marybrewster]

Years ago in a Florence Ballard Fan Club Newsletter, there was talk that Gladys was in the midst of writing a book. Does anyone know whatever became of this? Was this incorporated into the "Motown's Mystery Girl Group" book, or was it more of a fantasy like Cindy Birdsong's book?

[reese]

Years ago in a Florence Ballard Fan Club Newsletter, there was talk that Gladys was in the midst of writing a book. Does anyone know whatever became of this? Was this incorporated into the "Motown's Mystery Girl Group" book, or was it more of a fantasy like Cindy Birdsong's book?

The writer of the Marvelettes' book decided not to incorporate Gladys' book into his. I forget why but he mentioned this in the intro to his book.

From what I remember, Gladys' book was called A LETTER TO THE POSTMAN and there was a section where she wrote letters to some of her colleagues.

[midnightman]

I wonder how far she was to finishing that book when she got sick?

[reese]

I wonder how far she was to finishing that book when she got sick?

I thought it was done, but don't quote me on that. I first remember reading it about in the International Diana Ross Fan Club newsletter. That must have been at least in the late 80s or early 90s.

[midnightman]

^ I see...

Whoever is in her estate probably needs to find a publishing deal for the book? I'm sure there are lot of folks that wanna read about the Marvelettes stories [[despite the fact there's already a full book).

[marv2]

^ I see...

Whoever is in her estate probably needs to find a publishing deal for the book? I'm sure there are lot of folks that wanna read about the Marvelettes stories [[despite the fact there's already a full book).

Gladys deserved so much better than she got. People sometimes forget that she played a big role in Motown's early success.

[motony]

I think Marc Taylor had said that was why Gladys did not really want to cooperate with him on interviews because she was doing her own book.

[midnightman]

^ I see... it's a shame Gladys' book hasn't come out yet. I mean the little I gather from Unsung was just a tip of the iceberg. If there is a story that deserves more insight, it's them. Besides, we know all we know about the more famous Motown acts [[from Supremes, Temptations, Jackson family/MJ, Marvin, Stevie, Mary Wells, etc.) but not enough about the first star group of Motown.

[kenneth]

I think Marc Taylor had said that was why Gladys did not really want to cooperate with him on interviews because she was doing her own book.

That is my recollection as well. It's too bad, because Gladys' memories would have made the Taylor book a lot richer than it was able to be. I think it's a good book. Even though he spends some time on what I consider "filler," for example, analyzing the plot lines of the hit singles, to me he captured the essence of the ladies he wrote about. I didn't find this true in the Benjaminson biography of Mary Wells; it was just relating facts, without the feeling that the reader got to know Wells any better as a result.

[marv2]

^ I see... it's a shame Gladys' book hasn't come out yet. I mean the little I gather from Unsung was just a tip of the iceberg. If there is a story that deserves more insight, it's them. Besides, we know all we know about the more famous Motown acts [[from Supremes, Temptations, Jackson family/MJ, Marvin, Stevie, Mary Wells, etc.) but not enough about the first star group of Motown.

I would like to learn more about Glady's childhood. I heard that she was of Trinidadian heritage and that she was adopted as a baby. There is so much more to her story than we commonly know about.

[midnightman]

I would like to learn more about Glady's childhood. I heard that she was of Trinidadian heritage and that she was adopted as a baby. There is so much more to her story than we commonly know about.

Wasn't she born in Gainesville? The Trinidad part would make sense since a lot of folks from the Caribbean and South America made home in Florida.

She was put in a foster home after being in a maternity ward in Michigan. I don't know how she got up there. Also wonder what her original name is since she couldn't have been a "Horton".

[verajay]

Who did their costumes? Especially the mid 60s

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Who did their costumes? Especially the mid 60s

Good question. I always thought the Marvelettes had some of the best dresses and gowns at Motown besides the Supremes. I would assume the Marvelettes themselves chose their own dresses just like The Supremes and Martha and The Vandellas [[and that they had to pay for them too like the other girl groups).

There is one dress in particular that I thought was very classy and chic, but unusual for the neckline. I hadn't seen anyone else wear the style, until one day, I was watching a television show, a '90s show, and there was an elegantly dressed woman who was wearing pretty much the same dress. I thought, wow! The Marvelettes were ahead of their time and had very good taste.

Hopefully, this will show up so you can see the one I'm talking about.

[arr&bee]

gladys' leaving didn't have much impact on the group as wanda had done all leads on singles for a couple years. I think the downfall was brought about strictly because of the strife within the group. Wanda was out of control. I think gordy was pretty much finished with the group by 1967 but smokey really liked working with wanda and he did bring new life to the group. By the end of 1968 it was pretty obvious the marvelettes were finished

absolutely,i couldn't have said it any better.

[sup_fan]

Gordy definitely had no interest in investing in someone that is willing to destroy themselves with alcohol and/or drugs. makes you wonder how things might have been different if Wanda hadn't let herself slip. of course all other groups were secondary [[at best) to DRATS and then Diana solo. so any renaissance they might have had with smokey was always going to be short lived

[dickiemint]

I have been thinking about the only form Marvellettes I saw live it was Gladys and 2 backup singers, during the Ian Lavine motor city period and she ended the show with a reggae version of Please Mr Postman maybe to pay homage to her roots. It's a shame that even tho Lavine recorded Wanda [[ not sure if she recorded with Gladys) by then she wasn't well enough to perform live with Gladys and her girls .