Oh, No! Here's another Supremes' question

[marv2]

the "flo beating up diana" story is another interesting one. Randy mentions it in Call Her Miss Ross but then omits it in his later book. And it's not in his earlier Diana book either. I know Tony brings it up, but that's a less than trustworthy source.

She beat her up at Ed Sullivan's and that was not the only time.

[marybrewster]

sup_fan:

To add to your list, towards the end of the "In and Out of Love" performance, you'll see Cindy starting to sing Diana's lead; watch her face as she catches her mistake.

[marybrewster]

Also in the 1st "Love Child" performance, Diana flubs at least twice: with the line "Don't think that I don't need ya" then a few seconds later she says "wearing" instead of "bearing".

[luckyluckyme]

marv2,

Thank you for posting the Ed Sullivan Funny Girl Medley video as a means of demonstrating your point. It allowed me to watch anew with critical eyes. And not knowing all the specifics of how cameramen work, I noticed a few things:

For the medley Mary & Cindy are on camera for the majority of the video, featured either alongside Diana, in the forefront with Diana behind them, or with the camera focused solely on them. They are off camera while their background vocals are heard for the first moments of 'Don't Rain On My Parade' and the first half of 'People'. Plenty of screen time in my estimation. For a grand total of 7 seconds out of a 389 second video, part of their faces are blocked at the final notes of the medley by Diana's dramatic hand gestures. I suspect by this point no one is trying to guess who is behind Diana's raised arms. I really don't get what all this fuss is about; 7 short seconds really aren't that significant when viewing the whole picture . Your point doesn't seem to have the force you had hoped it would by presenting this video as evidence.
Do you have any other videos that you can post where the upraised arms & hands of Diana blocked Mary and Cindy's face for a considerable portion of the performance and not for a few paltry seconds. That might help convince me that this is a substantial issue to be considered and not the nitpicking that it now comes across as when viewed with a critical eye.

[marv2]

marv2,

Thank you for posting the Ed Sullivan Funny Girl Medley video as a means of demonstrating your point. It allowed me to watch anew with critical eyes. And not knowing all the specifics of how cameramen work, I noticed a few things:

For the medley Mary & Cindy are on camera for the majority of the video, featured either alongside Diana, in the forefront with Diana behind them, or with the camera focused solely on them. They are off camera while their background vocals are heard for the first moments of 'Don't Rain On My Parade' and the first half of 'People'. Plenty of screen time in my estimation. For a grand total of 7 seconds out of a 689 second video, part of their faces are blocked at the final notes of the medley by Diana's dramatic hand gestures. I suspect by this point no one is trying to guess who is behind Diana's raised arms. I really don't get what all this fuss is about; 7 short seconds really aren't that significant when viewing the whole picture . Your point doesn't seem to have the force you had hoped it would by presenting this video as evidence.
Do you have any other videos that you can post where the upraised arms & hands of Diana blocked Mary and Cindy's face for a considerable portion of the performance and not for a few paltry seconds. That might help convince me that this is a substantial issue to be considered and not the nitpicking that it now comes across as when viewed with a critical eye.

Luckyluckyme, thank you but it was not me that made a fuss about this. It was the Supremes themselves that it was an issue. I was kid when I saw all these Ed Sullivan Show performances and I am sure I did not know or did not care that they were all not getting along perfectly at the time. I posted the video because Reese sounded it like it was something all made up or impossible to have occurred. I posted this particular one to show that yes, it can and did occur. How often it happened I do not know.

[RanRan79]

She beat her up at Ed Sullivan's and that was not the only time.

But Florence said they never had any physical fights. Are you suggesting that she is a liar? Mary never wrote about any Flo/Diana fight in either of her books, even though Mary writes about the time she and Diana had a fight in the early days. And the only legitimate mention of any physical altercation between Florence and Diana [[I do not consider Tony Turner a legitimate source) appears in Call Her Miss Ross, and JRandy doesn't quote anyone about the fight. In fact, there isn't a source for the information in the bibliography for that anecdote either. The fact that he didn't bother to put such an obvious big deal moment in his latest Diana book, nor Mary Wilson didn't bother to mention it in hers, and Florence actually saying they never had any fights, suggests to me this fight business may be more Supremes myth. Except when faced with obvious evidence to the contrary, I always take the word of the people involved over anything else. Florence said it didn't happen and I believe her. But if you can provide a credible source to the contrary, I might join you in calling Florence Ballard a liar.

[sup_fan]

Also in the 1st "Love Child" performance, Diana flubs at least twice: with the line "Don't think that I don't need ya" then a few seconds later she says "wearing" instead of "bearing".

And there’s the fly around Diana’s head towards end of Love Child lol

[marv2]

But Florence said they never had any physical fights. Are you suggesting that she is a liar? Mary never wrote about any Flo/Diana fight in either of her books, even though Mary writes about the time she and Diana had a fight in the early days. And the only legitimate mention of any physical altercation between Florence and Diana [[I do not consider Tony Turner a legitimate source) appears in Call Her Miss Ross, and JRandy doesn't quote anyone about the fight. In fact, there isn't a source for the information in the bibliography for that anecdote either. The fact that he didn't bother to put such an obvious big deal moment in his latest Diana book, nor Mary Wilson didn't bother to mention it in hers, and Florence actually saying they never had any fights, suggests to me this fight business may be more Supremes myth. Except when faced with obvious evidence to the contrary, I always take the word of the people involved over anything else. Florence said it didn't happen and I believe her. But if you can provide a credible source to the contrary, I might join you in calling Florence Ballard a liar.

I don't know where or who she said that to, but she did[[have fights)! All of them had fights. Don't let me get started with the Temptations either LOL! There were more people at Motown involved in physical fights than not.

[marv2]

But Florence said they never had any physical fights. Are you suggesting that she is a liar? Mary never wrote about any Flo/Diana fight in either of her books, even though Mary writes about the time she and Diana had a fight in the early days. And the only legitimate mention of any physical altercation between Florence and Diana [[I do not consider Tony Turner a legitimate source) appears in Call Her Miss Ross, and JRandy doesn't quote anyone about the fight. In fact, there isn't a source for the information in the bibliography for that anecdote either. The fact that he didn't bother to put such an obvious big deal moment in his latest Diana book, nor Mary Wilson didn't bother to mention it in hers, and Florence actually saying they never had any fights, suggests to me this fight business may be more Supremes myth. Except when faced with obvious evidence to the contrary, I always take the word of the people involved over anything else. Florence said it didn't happen and I believe her. But if you can provide a credible source to the contrary, I might join you in calling Florence Ballard a liar.

Diana Ross said in an interview with the CBC [[Canadian Broadcasting Co.), that Florence left the Supremes because she was tired of traveling and wanted to settle down and open an antiques shop........................................LOL!

[marv2]

But Florence said they never had any physical fights. Are you suggesting that she is a liar? Mary never wrote about any Flo/Diana fight in either of her books, even though Mary writes about the time she and Diana had a fight in the early days. And the only legitimate mention of any physical altercation between Florence and Diana [[I do not consider Tony Turner a legitimate source) appears in Call Her Miss Ross, and JRandy doesn't quote anyone about the fight. In fact, there isn't a source for the information in the bibliography for that anecdote either. The fact that he didn't bother to put such an obvious big deal moment in his latest Diana book, nor Mary Wilson didn't bother to mention it in hers, and Florence actually saying they never had any fights, suggests to me this fight business may be more Supremes myth. Except when faced with obvious evidence to the contrary, I always take the word of the people involved over anything else. Florence said it didn't happen and I believe her. But if you can provide a credible source to the contrary, I might join you in calling Florence Ballard a liar.

On the Claude Francois Show in 1968, he asked the ages of each of the Supremes. Mary Wilson said "23", Diana Ross said "23" and Cindy Birdsong said "23 also"! LOL!!!!

[marv2]

But Florence said they never had any physical fights. Are you suggesting that she is a liar? Mary never wrote about any Flo/Diana fight in either of her books, even though Mary writes about the time she and Diana had a fight in the early days. And the only legitimate mention of any physical altercation between Florence and Diana [[I do not consider Tony Turner a legitimate source) appears in Call Her Miss Ross, and JRandy doesn't quote anyone about the fight. In fact, there isn't a source for the information in the bibliography for that anecdote either. The fact that he didn't bother to put such an obvious big deal moment in his latest Diana book, nor Mary Wilson didn't bother to mention it in hers, and Florence actually saying they never had any fights, suggests to me this fight business may be more Supremes myth. Except when faced with obvious evidence to the contrary, I always take the word of the people involved over anything else. Florence said it didn't happen and I believe her. But if you can provide a credible source to the contrary, I might join you in calling Florence Ballard a liar.

Mary also didn't put that Diana had gotten pregnant by Berry Gordy in either of her books.

[marv2]

There were a lot of things Mary did not put in her books because she knew that some people would not be able to handle it.

[milven]

Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zqPTkdYzgc

Is this a bit silly? At the end of the video, the three ladies are actually singing as a group rather, than as lead and two background singers. As a group, they are standing shoulder to shoulder. [[Nice to see them that way) Because of the choreography, Diana has to be about a foot in front of Mary and Cindy because if not, when all three of them extend their arms, they would be pushing each other out of the way. There are only two other options to allow all three to raise their arms at the conclusion. Diana could stand one foot back and the girls could cover Diana's face. Or they could split the group and have Cindy stand at stage right, Mary stand at stage left, and Diana stand at center stage. Then they could all raise their hands to their hearts content and no one's face would be covered.

Much of this also has to do with camera angles. There is a video of Jean, Mary and Lynda singing Bad Weather. When Jean takes her mike off the stand and moves from stage left position to center position, the camera angle has her blocking Lynda, almost as if she is standing in front of her. But she isn't. She is simply moving to the middle of the group, which is obvious as you continue to watch the video after camera angle is straight forward.

Conclusion: Much Ado About Nothing

[marv2]

Is this a bit silly? At the end of the video, the three ladies are actually singing as a group rather, than as lead and two background singers. As a group, they are standing shoulder to shoulder. [[Nice to see them that way) Because of the choreography, Diana has to be about a foot in front of Mary and Cindy because if not, when all three of them extend their arms, they would be pushing each other out of the way. There are only two other options to allow all three to raise their arms at the conclusion. Diana could stand one foot back and the girls could cover Diana's face. Or they could split the group and have Cindy stand at stage right, Mary stand at stage left, and Diana stand at center stage. Then they could all raise their hands to their hearts content and no one's face would be covered.

Much of this also has to do with camera angles. There is a video of Jean, Mary and Lynda singing Bad Weather. When Jean takes her mike off the stand and moves from stage left position to center position, the camera angle has her blocking Lynda, almost as if she is standing in front of her. But she isn't. She is simply moving to the middle of the group, which is obvious as you continue to watch the video after camera angle is straight forward.

Conclusion: Much Ado About Nothing

I don't know why Cindy Birdsong made an issue out of it.

[bradsupremes]

*I believe the Come See About Me clip was originally broadcast in both color and b&w. but only the b&w survives

CBS didn't air any of their regularly scheduled broadcasts in color until September 1965. The Ed Sullivan Show was black & white up to the fall of 1965 when it switched over to color. The first Supremes performance in color on Sullivan was "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You."

[marv2]

CBS didn't air any of their regularly scheduled broadcasts in color until September 1965. The Ed Sullivan Show was black & white up to the fall of 1965 when it switched over to color. The first Supremes performance in color on Sullivan was "You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You."

Unfortunately, we were still watching the show in black and white at my house. Dang! LOL!!!

[imakicola]

I know Mary’s account is controversial, and some people say it isn’t true or accurate. Either way, I’m so so happy she wrote the book. It’s one side of a four person story, and I got to find out SO MUCH MORE about the Supremes than I ever would have known!

As for Diana covering the girls’ faces, wasnk’t It Oprah that made that rumor popular by saying directly to Diana on her show?

[marv2]

I know Mary’s account is controversial, and some people say it isn’t true or accurate. Either way, I’m so so happy she wrote the book. It’s one side of a four person story, and I got to find out SO MUCH MORE about the Supremes than I ever would have known!

As for Diana covering the girls’ faces, wasnk’t It Oprah that made that rumor popular by saying directly to Diana on her show?

Mary's book was true.

[RanRan79]

I don't where or who she said that to, but she did! All of them had fights. Don't let me get started with the Temptations either LOL! There were more people at Motown involved in physical fights than not.

Maybe I'm stupid- and in this case if you honestly feel that's true, you have my permission to go there without me coming for you- but how is it that you can state with such certainty that a fight between Flo and Diana happened? You've stated countless times that during the time in question you were a small child. Now if you saw them throwing hands, then I understand your declaration. But if you're assuming they had a fight because "everybody" at Motown had fights, I don't understand how you can come to that conclusion. Where are the eyewitnesses? Who are they? And who believes for one moment that Gordy would have ever stood for Florence beating up on his precious Diana? You can't have the lead singer of the world's most famous female group onstage or on television black, blue and scratched up. Gordy would have flipped. And none of the principals- Gordy, Flo, Diana or Mary- mention Florence physically attacking anyone as a reason for the problems in the group. All of that leads me to believe that a physical fight between these two women was first reported to add drama to a story where the drama was already exaggerated and subsequently repeated because, well quite frankly, people love the image of two Black women physically fighting each other. Until Gordy, Diana or Mary or a legit eyewitness says this happened [[I hate to go here but...) FAKE NEWS.

[RanRan79]

Mary also didn't put that Diana had gotten pregnant by Berry Gordy in either of her books.

Because she was smart enough to know that she would have been destroyed for doing that. Mary has her faults but she would never have hurt a child on purpose. So why would she have aired that child's business in a book that's supposed to be about Mary? I fail to understand why you mentioned it.

[marv2]

Maybe I'm stupid- and in this case if you honestly feel that's true, you have my permission to go there without me coming for you- but how is it that you can state with such certainty that a fight between Flo and Diana happened? You've stated countless times that during the time in question you were a small child. Now if you saw them throwing hands, then I understand your declaration. But if you're assuming they had a fight because "everybody" at Motown had fights, I don't understand how you can come to that conclusion. Where are the eyewitnesses? Who are they? And who believes for one moment that Gordy would have ever stood for Florence beating up on his precious Diana? You can't have the lead singer of the world's most famous female group onstage or on television black, blue and scratched up. Gordy would have flipped. And none of the principals- Gordy, Flo, Diana or Mary- mention Florence physically attacking anyone as a reason for the problems in the group. All of that leads me to believe that a physical fight between these two women was first reported to add drama to a story where the drama was already exaggerated and subsequently repeated because, well quite frankly, people love the image of two Black women physically fighting each other. Until Gordy, Diana or Mary or a legit eyewitness says this happened [[I hate to go here but...) FAKE NEWS.

Whatever! This is not court case. It all happened. LOL!

[captainjames]

wow so much Hype about nothing.

[RanRan79]

There were a lot of things Mary did not put in her books because she knew that some people would not be able to handle it.

I'm sure Mary also didn't put a lot of things in her books about herself because she couldn't handle it. Besides, Mary's books were supposed to be about herself. If she spent most pages of both books talking about other people's business she would have had some hard questions to answer about why she would do that. Mary is a smart woman.

[marv2]

Because she was smart enough to know that she would have been destroyed for doing that. Mary has her faults but she would never have hurt a child on purpose. So why would she have aired that child's business in a book that's supposed to be about Mary? I fail to understand why you mentioned it.

I mentioned it for a couple of reasons. One as an example of Mary Wilson that including everything that happened in her book. Secondly, if wrote her book just to hurt Diana Ross as so many of Ross' fans assume, she would have wrote about Diane getting pregnant by Berry Gordy one month before she got married. Mary would not have been destroyed LOL! There were people at Motown that wanted her to go much further than she did. She didn't because she wasn't trying to hurt anyone. You would be surprised at who those people were........!

[RanRan79]

Mary's book was true.

Not everything. Thanks to the internet and video sharing we know that to be true.

[marv2]

I'm sure Mary also didn't put a lot of things in her books about herself because she couldn't handle it. Besides, Mary's books were supposed to be about herself. If she spent most pages of both books talking about other people's business she would have had some hard questions to answer about why she would do that. Mary is a smart woman.

I think she would have been sued if she lied.

[RanRan79]

Whatever! This is not court case. It all happened. LOL!

Good grief Marv, you still can't say how you know. LOL Okay, it's not a court case, but when you say something and can't [[or won't) back it up you lose credibility. That's alright, I love you anyway. But I see you.

[RanRan79]

I mentioned it for a couple of reasons. One as an example of Mary Wilson that including everything that happened in her book. Secondly, if wrote her book just to hurt Diana Ross as so many of Ross' fans assume, she would have wrote about Diane getting pregnant by Berry Gordy one month before she got married. Mary would not have been destroyed LOL! There were people at Motown that wanted her to go much further than she did. She didn't because she wasn't trying to hurt anyone. You would be surprised at who those people were........!

I wouldn't be surprised, just like I'm not surprised by the people at Motown who call Mary a liar. That's life. What we know to be true is this: there's Mary's side, Diana's side, Gordy's side, Flo's side and the truth. And they all tell some truths and they all have their perspectives which drive what's true and what's not. But none of their mouths are a prayer book, as my grandmother would say. Are you willing to bet your life on the word of Mary Wilson?

[marv2]

Good grief Marv, you still can't say how you know. LOL Okay, it's not a court case, but when you say something and can't [[or won't) back it up you lose credibility. That's alright, I love you anyway. But I see you.

No I can't out of respect for people that were around and shared many things with me over the years. I wished I cared about proving things to you.....but unfortunately I don't. I'll say what I've always said. I am about the truth. I have no reason to lie about this stuff. I don't even dare talk about most of the stuff I know LOL!!!!

[marv2]

I wouldn't be surprised, just like I'm not surprised by the people at Motown who call Mary a liar. That's life. What we know to be true is this: there's Mary's side, Diana's side, Gordy's side, Flo's side and the truth. And they all tell some truths and they all have their perspectives which drive what's true and what's not. But none of their mouths are a prayer book, as my grandmother would say. Are you willing to bet your life on the word of Mary Wilson?

Mr. Gordy's has said that his "Motown the Musical" is the true story. Ahemmmmm hehehehehehehe!

[marv2]

I wouldn't be surprised, just like I'm not surprised by the people at Motown who call Mary a liar. That's life. What we know to be true is this: there's Mary's side, Diana's side, Gordy's side, Flo's side and the truth. And they all tell some truths and they all have their perspectives which drive what's true and what's not. But none of their mouths are a prayer book, as my grandmother would say. Are you willing to bet your life on the word of Mary Wilson?

Diana wrote this great, big book called Sparrow. I guess that was her side of things. LOL!!!!

[RanRan79]

I think she would have been sued if she lied.

Not necessarily. The stuff Mary wrote about was life shit, if it happened. They were young people doing dumb shit. No one is gonna sue about that nonsense. When Tony Turner planned to write that Gordy molested him, that's the type of stuff you sue over, which is exactly what Gordy threatened to do and of course we have yet to get that third book from Turner.

If famous people sued about everything that was written or said about them, they would spend their careers in court, including Mary Wilson who has had some very unsavory things said about her in various books. Mary and Diana seem to be unbothered by the things written or said about them. Only the fans seem to give a shit.

[robb_k]

I'm surprised they didn't sing "Baby Love" on Ed Sullivan. It seemed like they performed that song on hundreds of TV shows.

[marv2]

I'm surprised they didn't sing "Baby Love" on Ed Sullivan. It seemed like they performed that song on hundreds of TV shows.

That is interesting when you think of it. "Baby Love" was a very popular hit and would have definitely fit Sullivan's clean cut family friendly format.

[RanRan79]

No I can't out of respect for people that were around and shared many things with me over the years. I wished I cared about proving things to you.....but unfortunately I don't. I'll say what I've always said. I am about the truth. I have no reason to lie about this stuff. I don't even dare talk about most of the stuff I know LOL!!!!

Yup, I assumed this post was coming. There's nothing left for me to say. You don't realize it, but you have just proven my point. Time to move on...

[RanRan79]

Mr. Gordy's has said that his "Motown the Musical" is the true story. Ahemmmmm hehehehehehehe!

He's free to believe that. I'm sure there are some truths to it, just like there are probably some falsehoods. [[I haven't seen it.) Again, that's life. If you wrote a book about your life I'm sure you would claim it was the truth. And I bet there would be some folks who know you who would remember some of what you write differently than you do. It's not rocket science.

[RanRan79]

Diana wrote this great, big book called Sparrow. I guess that was her side of things. LOL!!!!

No guessing about it. It was her side of things. Whose side was she going to give? Mary's? Lol

[RanRan79]

I'm surprised they didn't sing "Baby Love" on Ed Sullivan. It seemed like they performed that song on hundreds of TV shows.

It was probably the other song they had scheduled, which was cut, on that first appearance.

[johnjeb]

Eric could very well be wrong and/or confused. I looked at an Ed Sullivan show episode guide and I don't see an instance where the Animals and the Supremes appear on the same episode.

Just checked IMDb to review The Animals TV appearances for the latter part of the 1960s.

Of their 5 Sullivan appearances listed the only female group listed on one of the shows was The McGuire Sisters. They were on Shindig! a couple of times. The female group listed was, of course, The Blossoms. They appeared on Where The Action Is and the female group on that show was The Shangri-Las. I also checked their appearances on Mike Douglas but there was no listing of any female groups on the same shows.

I didn't check all their TV appearances listed and I didn't think of checking for solo female vocalists with background singers who may have performed on the same show [[although I can't think of any who would have BG singers with them other than Aretha).

Here is the IMDb link [[you have to scroll down to "SELF"):

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1135151/

[TomatoTom123]

Maybe I'm stupid- and in this case if you honestly feel that's true, you have my permission to go there without me coming for you- but how is it that you can state with such certainty that a fight between Flo and Diana happened? You've stated countless times that during the time in question you were a small child. Now if you saw them throwing hands, then I understand your declaration. But if you're assuming they had a fight because "everybody" at Motown had fights, I don't understand how you can come to that conclusion. Where are the eyewitnesses? Who are they? And who believes for one moment that Gordy would have ever stood for Florence beating up on his precious Diana? You can't have the lead singer of the world's most famous female group onstage or on television black, blue and scratched up. Gordy would have flipped. And none of the principals- Gordy, Flo, Diana or Mary- mention Florence physically attacking anyone as a reason for the problems in the group. All of that leads me to believe that a physical fight between these two women was first reported to add drama to a story where the drama was already exaggerated and subsequently repeated because, well quite frankly, people love the image of two Black women physically fighting each other. Until Gordy, Diana or Mary or a legit eyewitness says this happened [[I hate to go here but...) FAKE NEWS.

Whatever! This is not court case. It all happened. LOL!

HOLY MOLY RanRan can you not just accept that Marv is right and move on? I honestly don't know what's up with you today. We all know that Marv is the truth, I mean, wtf do you actually want from him? Evidence? Factual information? Geez. You know, I didn't want to go there but I actually find your behaviour in this thread quite unfitting of an SDF member. Shame on you.

[sup_fan]

It was probably the other song they had scheduled, which was cut, on that first appearance.

I’ve always wondered what the cut song was. Anyone With a Heart, I am woman. Maybe people? Or lovelight.

[midnightman]

I'm surprised they didn't sing "Baby Love" on Ed Sullivan. It seemed like they performed that song on hundreds of TV shows.

Baby Love must've been rehearsed for the first appearance but was scrapped.

[reese]

I’ve always wondered what the cut song was. Anyone With a Heart, I am woman. Maybe people? Or lovelight.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was I AM WOMAN or PEOPLE, although the latter might have been too long.

Listening closely to the FAREWELL album, Diana mentions that they performed I AM WOMAN on the Steve Allen show. Too bad the clip hasn't surfaced as of yet.

[captainjames]

HOLY MOLY RanRan can you not just accept that Marv is right and move on? I honestly don't know what's up with you today. We all know that Marv is the truth, I mean, wtf do you actually want from him? Evidence? Factual information? Geez. You know, I didn't want to go there but I actually find your behaviour in this thread quite unfitting of an SDF member. Shame on you.

Diana wrote another book which she decided to pull but I think it will see the light of day. Also I get the impression from those that knew Diana back in the 50's and the 60's will tell you she was not going to take a beat down without you leaving with some marks or you knowing she was there. Honestly, I don't think there was ever any physical fights with Flo and Diana especially when Flo said there weren't.

If memory serves me right Mary first try at her book was sent back because it was not hot enough.

[midnightman]

^ Yeah I read that too. Apparently the details weren't "juicy" for publication. And yeah Flo & Diana never had no drag down fights. If Flo claimed there were no fights between them, why deny her claim? It came from her mouth!

[TheMotownManiac]

1) I do believe Flo May have attacked Diana physically and, sadly, if true, is grounds for dismissal right there. She was taking speed to lose weight and it can make you nuts. Plus, she might have been angry doing YCHL when she wasn’t on the single. Who knows?

2)The hands over the face thing, to me, is absurd. There’s no reason to do it, except to be bitchy, as it achieves nothing. But, maybe she was being bitchy - as, They all were at times [[per Cindy.)

3) There are other pregnancies besides Rhonda that Mary could have, but didn’t mention in her book. Tijuana, anyone?

4) There are outright lies, fabrications and heavy handed, one-sided agenda-filled reminisinces in both of Mary’s books that have been discussed and proven in this very forum. Martha also has 3 versions of the origin of Vandellas’ name - plus, she states that after WDOLG, HDH never worked with her group again. There are lots of things people write in books that may not be true, that other people want to believe. I don’t know of any falsehoods in Ross’ Book, but there’s not a lot of anything in her book period
. I tend to believe most things unless it seems fishy or is disproven.

[midnightman]

Flo was taking speed?! WOW...

Motown really didn't take care of their artists, did they? But yeah, I think when Flo got messed up with chemicals, it made her a different person. They talked about it on Unsung.

People need to be reminded the Supremes were just 20, 21 years old when they suddenly became an internationally known act, of course they're gonna be immature at times...

From that '73 Supremes clip, there definitely seems to still be some drama associated with them. :/

[milven]

Diana wrote another book which she decided to pull but I think it will see the light of day.....

If memory serves me right Mary first try at her book was sent back because it was not hot enough.

I remember pre-ordering Diana's book on Amazon, but it's release date was changed and then cancelled. Just my opinion, but I don't Diana was in a good place when it was decided to write this book. She had second thoughts about it after her health improved and decided not to go negative. The book was never released. Diana continued her successful career with concerts and receiving prestigious awards

As for Mary, as you said, she did not have enough dirt in her book, and it was sent back to her for revisions. When she went on TV shows to promote the book, naturally, the interviewers were only interested in what she said about Diana - things that probably were added to the book during the revision. But, in the interviews, Mary tried to put a good spin on it making excuses or giving reasons why Diana did or said something. It was kind of aggravating to watch these interviews because I figured as long as she wrote it, own it and discuss it in the same way that you did in the book.

But with the passage of time, I can see that Mary did not want to go negative on Diana and probably did it because of the publishers demands - and perhaps because of her financial situtation at the time.

And Diana has never gone negative on Mary except the follow-up interview with Barbara Walters after Mary's interview the night before.

So maybe there still is a bond between the two ladies, even though they now lead different lives and do not socialize with each other.

Maybe it is just us, the fans, who have the problem

[thanxal]

Maybe it is just us, the fans, who have the problem

Spot on, Milven.

[RanRan79]

HOLY MOLY RanRan can you not just accept that Marv is right and move on? I honestly don't know what's up with you today. We all know that Marv is the truth, I mean, wtf do you actually want from him? Evidence? Factual information? Geez. You know, I didn't want to go there but I actually find your behaviour in this thread quite unfitting of an SDF member. Shame on you.

Thank you Tom for putting me in my place! I don't know what I was thinking. In my naivete I just assumed that if you make a claim you should be able to back it up. Marv has definitely taught me that this is unnecessary at best, and downright disrespectful to be asked of it, at worst. I now know better.

Btw, Mary Wilson was in Elvis' bathroom when his body was found. When questioned by police she claimed that she thought it was Tom Jones' bathroom. To keep her name out of the papers, she slept with the cops. Today she refuses to answer questions regarding the whole thing and completely omitted the entire episode from both of her books.