MARY WILSON says She Has To Work - Campaigns for Royalty Legislation for Streaming

[midnightman]

I think with a lot of celebrities, people they hired to look after their money abused that trust.

[midnightman]

Read further down the thread. There’s definitely some Mary bashing going on.

The average joe wasn’t what I was referring to regarding the silly fights.

Oh I know what "silly fights" you're referring to, I'm just choosing to ignore 'em.

[jobeterob]

I agree that these heritage artists should make what efforts they can. Generally not much changes very significantly.

They all seemed to start out thinking it would all be over quite quickly and they were young and didn’t take much care.

By the time they were 40, most of the money making part of their careers were on the downward slide and the industry started to rapidly change again and again.

And they never recovered financially.

It is one thing if you are the recognizable voice of Stevie Smokey Gladys or Martha - but very much harder if you were a Pip Miracle Vandella or Supreme

[thanxal]

Oh I know what "silly fights" you're referring to, I'm just choosing to ignore 'em.

Agreed. That's why I'm not referencing the specific posts.

[TheMotownManiac]

Yes but Mary has a high overhead. She has to pay musicians, singers, costuming and whatever royalties on music performed, managers, a publicist. She doesn't walk away with much. Primarily known as a background singer, her bookings have dried up considerably because of her advanced years and a diminishing audience potential at any given venue.

mary does not have a manager, nor does she pay a publicist. She is frugal with a buck and wisely so. Her biggest expense on costuming is dry cleaning. She has known for years that things were not as rosey as she’d like and has adjusted accordingly while still living her life basically on her terms. I admire her for trying very hard and even taking gigs on a perchentage basis - most of which have not planned out, but her effort is there. She has never, ever been lazy and, since the early 90s, has learned and respected the value of a dollar. Really, her only mistake was her handling of RTL, I’m not saying who was right or wrong, only that she, knowing Diana, blew the biggest paycheck of her career. Mary agrees that, in retrospect, she should have played her hand differently. I’m hoping that a rumored Motown Revue with Mary, Martha, Brenda and The Tops happens as it could be a nice buck for each of them.
The last sat thing that Mary should have to concern herself with is funds, IMO. She worked hard for 50 years and made a lot of money for a lot of other people that could have been a bit more generous. She IS concerned about her future. I believe that if she really were in trouble, Diana would help her out.

[captainjames]

You are right !!!
Truth be told ,,,,
If mary was really in a bad way, Diana would find a way to help her.

mary does not have a manager, nor does she pay a publicist. She is frugal with a buck and wisely so. Her biggest expense on costuming is dry cleaning. She has known for years that things were not as risky as she’d like and has adjusted accordingly while still living her life basically on her terms. I admire her for trying very hard and taking gigs on a perchentage basis - most of which have not planned out, but her effort is there. She has never, ever been lazy and, since the early 90s, has learned and respected the value of a dollar. Really, her only mistake was her handling of RTL, I’m not saying who was right or wrong, only that she, knowing Diana, blew the biggest paycheck of her career. Mary agrees that, in retrospect, she should have played her hand differently. I’m hoping that a rumored Motown Revue with Mary, Martha, Brenda and The Tops happens as it could be a nice buck for each of them.

The last sat thing that Mary should have to concern herself with is funds, IMO. She worked hard for 50 years and made a lot of money for a lot of other people that could have been a bit more generous. I d believe that if she really were in trouble, Diana would help her out.

[midnightman]

I agree with MotownManiac. Mary's not in any financial danger. Not that I know of.

[TomatoTom123]

Anyone know why songs recorded before 1972 don't incur royalty payments? Why 1972? 46 years... seems random...?

[midnightman]

I've had that same question for years. Like 1973-77 seems to be forgotten about? Unless there was some loophole in those years that allow artists to get control of the copyright of songs from those years?

Every time you hear of song royalties, they always either go "pre-1972" or "around and after 1978". Weird.

[REDHOT]

Thanks to the people here,that didn't fall for the negative drama,I'm not gonna say,who it was,we all know,who try'd it,but everyone ignored it lol,and for the record, Mary Wilson is doing just find.

[marv2]

"Well my job is done here on Capital Hill I am off to the Nikko Hotel in San Francisco
" - Superwoman aka Mary Wilson!

Attachment 13980

[milven]

Anyone know why songs recorded before 1972 don't incur royalty payments? Why 1972? 46 years... seems random...?

Why 1972? Because before 1972, there was no copyright for recordings played on radio. So performers never got paid for radio play, but the radio play promoted their records and the artists and labels made money from that. Writers of the songs did get paid by being members of ASCAP or BMI

But performers on the songs [[and possibly the labels too) were not compensated for radio play except for the fact that the play promoted sales.

The copyright law that now pays artists for radio play went into effect in 1972 but it was not retroactive. As Mary said, that was fine, because people heard the old songs and then went out and bought the music and she then got royalties. But who buys music today in any hard format? Not many. That is why Mary is fighting to make that law retroactive to pre-1972.

So today, with most music being heard via satellite radio and internet, the pre-1972 part of the law causes major implications. The absence of a performance right for pre-’72s means that there’s no guarantee that recording artists are going to get paid fairly for the use of their work when played.

I actually remember when this 1972 battle occurred for pay to artists for radio play. I’m not sure that I have all the facts right [[it is easy to check ), but at least you have a general idea about why 1972 was picked.

[midnightman]

That's why this industry should've made it automatic once they decided that streaming would bring them profit. The pre-1972 copyright rule is in the Stone Ages.

[marv2]

It looks like Mary is going to get a lot of help to get this new legislation passed!

Garth Brooks, Tina Turner and Neil Young Join Call for CLASSICS Act Passage

https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...-list-congress

[marv2]

Here is information on the Bill sponsored by Darrell Issa:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...ouse-bill/3301

[marv2]

Mary's speech may be carried on C-Span over the weekend.

[midnightman]

Surprised there aren't more tbh... but Tina, Garth and Neil are HUGE names so maybe there's hope.

[marv2]

Surprised there aren't more tbh... but Tina, Garth and Neil are HUGE names so maybe there's hope.

Mary said in the article that so many just do not know that they are not getting paid. I think with her and the efforts of others, the word will spread. She was one of just a handful of people representing F.A.M.E. that went to something like 29 State Houses and convinced them to enact the Truth in Music act to prevent bogus groups from stealing and using the names of original groups and using them to do concerts. Give her a minute. LOL!!!!

[midnightman]

Mary said in the article that so many just do not know that they are not getting paid. I think with her and the efforts of others, the word will spread. She was one of just a handful of people representing F.A.M.E. that went to something like 29 State Houses and convince them to enact the Truth in Music act to prevent bogus groups from stealing and using the names of original groups and using them to do concerts. Give her a minute. LOL!!!!

Well I see this has definitely gotten a lot of people's attention LOL
I do hope more join in though. It's a growing movement too.
Patti's name is not in it though? :/
Usually when it comes to passing pro-artist royalty bills, she was one of the first ones to bring it up.

[detmotownguy]

Mary's speech may be carried on C-Span over the weekend.

Hey Marv! Thanks for posting the photo of Mary in Washington. Very photogenic lady. I have a feeling something positive will come out of this campaign. I was able to catch up on this thread when I docked the boat. Will catch up with you soon via email. I doubt Mary is in dire need of $$$. So pleased to read abt all the support from nearly all the posters.

[marv2]

Hey Marv! Thanks for posting the photo of Mary in Washington. Very photogenic lady. I have a feeling something positive will come out of this campaign. I was able to catch up on this thread when I docked the boat. Will catch up with you soon via email. I doubt Mary is in dire need of $$$. So pleased to read abt all the support from nearly all the posters.

You're welcome DET. If you're in Michigan......stay warm. I heard a snow storm may be coming. Mary Wilson knows a LOT of Congress people and others in D.C.

[detmotownguy]

mary does not have a manager, nor does she pay a publicist. She is frugal with a buck and wisely so. Her biggest expense on costuming is dry cleaning. She has known for years that things were not as rosey as she’d like and has adjusted accordingly while still living her life basically on her terms. I admire her for trying very hard and even taking gigs on a perchentage basis - most of which have not planned out, but her effort is there. She has never, ever been lazy and, since the early 90s, has learned and respected the value of a dollar. Really, her only mistake was her handling of RTL, I’m not saying who was right or wrong, only that she, knowing Diana, blew the biggest paycheck of her career. Mary agrees that, in retrospect, she should have played her hand differently. I’m hoping that a rumored Motown Revue with Mary, Martha, Brenda and The Tops happens as it could be a nice buck for each of them.
The last sat thing that Mary should have to concern herself with is funds, IMO. She worked hard for 50 years and made a lot of money for a lot of other people that could have been a bit more generous. She IS concerned about her future. I believe that if she really were in trouble, Diana would help her out.

Hi Maniac! I cant believe I called u maniac lol. Nice complimentary posting on Mary's efforts. wow I didn't hear about this potential upcoming Motown review. How cool! Keep us informed if u hear of any updates.

[midnightman]

That pic of Mary outside Capitol Hill looked like she is confident this will pass.

[marv2]

mary does not have a manager, nor does she pay a publicist. She is frugal with a buck and wisely so. Her biggest expense on costuming is dry cleaning. She has known for years that things were not as rosey as she’d like and has adjusted accordingly while still living her life basically on her terms. I admire her for trying very hard and even taking gigs on a perchentage basis - most of which have not planned out, but her effort is there. She has never, ever been lazy and, since the early 90s, has learned and respected the value of a dollar. Really, her only mistake was her handling of RTL, I’m not saying who was right or wrong, only that she, knowing Diana, blew the biggest paycheck of her career. Mary agrees that, in retrospect, she should have played her hand differently. I’m hoping that a rumored Motown Revue with Mary, Martha, Brenda and The Tops happens as it could be a nice buck for each of them.
The last sat thing that Mary should have to concern herself with is funds, IMO. She worked hard for 50 years and made a lot of money for a lot of other people that could have been a bit more generous. She IS concerned about her future. I believe that if she really were in trouble, Diana would help her out.

Jay Schwartz is Mary's publicist of more than 30 years. She also has two principle agencies for bookings. Oh and she is not in trouble and that is all I am going to say. LOL!!!!

[Circa 1824]

Jay Schwartz is Mary's publicist of more than 30 years. She also has two principle agencies for bookings. Oh and she is not in trouble and that is all I am going to say. LOL!!!!

Was that Mary I saw sneaking on the city bus without paying her fare ?? LOL!!!!

[TomatoTom123]

Why 1972? Because before 1972, there was no copyright for recordings played on radio. So performers never got paid for radio play, but the radio play promoted their records and the artists and labels made money from that. Writers of the songs did get paid by being members of ASCAP or BMI

But performers on the songs [[and possibly the labels too) were not compensated for radio play except for the fact that the play promoted sales.

The copyright law that now pays artists for radio play went into effect in 1972 but it was not retroactive. As Mary said, that was fine, because people heard the old songs and then went out and bought the music and she then got royalties. But who buys music today in any hard format? Not many. That is why Mary is fighting to make that law retroactive to pre-1972.

So today, with most music being heard via satellite radio and internet, the pre-1972 part of the law causes major implications. The absence of a performance right for pre-’72s means that there’s no guarantee that recording artists are going to get paid fairly for the use of their work when played.

I actually remember when this 1972 battle occurred for pay to artists for radio play. I’m not sure that I have all the facts right [[it is easy to check ), but at least you have a general idea about why 1972 was picked.

Hey thanks milven for your response! Interesting.

[vgalindo]

Jay Schwartz is Mary's publicist of more than 30 years. She also has two principle agencies for bookings. Oh and she is not in trouble and that is all I am going to say. LOL!!!!

Well nobody is saying Mary is in trouble but Mary herself saying that she has to work for a living. And this ain't the first time Mary has made these comments. Lol!!

[marv2]

Well nobody is saying Mary is in trouble but Mary herself saying that she has to work for a living. And this ain't the first time Mary has made these comments. Lol!!

Mary is a good woman. A great human being. She does not have to sing for her supper. Mary just had two more grandchildren added to her family last year bringing a grand total of 10 grandchildren and one great grandchild. She is determined to leave them a very nice inheritance.

[milven]

Mary is a good woman. A great human being. She does not have to sing for her supper. Mary just had two more grandchildren added to her family last year bringing a grand total of 10 grandchildren and one great grandchild. She is determined to leave them a very nice inheritance.

If that is the reason that she is still working in her seventies, then she should not say that she has to work. I know some people her age that have to work to keep a roof over their head. They lived too large when they were younger, borrowed equity from their homes, and are still payinng off mortgages to keep a roof over their head. I doubt that they choose to be baggers in a grocery supermarket, and of course they are too old to be in whatever profession that they were in, so there they are, bagging groceries.

At least Mary can work in her profession to make money for her grandchildren.

Also, telling children that they are going to get a very nice inheritance usually creates lazy children who become dependant on others. Better to teach children ambition, determination and survival, all skills that Mary now has.

This is not Mary bashing, just the way I feel about the subject in general, not Mary specifically.

[marv2]

If that is the reason that she is still working in her seventies, then she should not say that she has to work. I know some people her age that have to work to keep a roof over their head. They lived too large when they were younger, borrowed equity from their homes, and are still payinng off mortgages to keep a roof over their head. I doubt that they choose to be baggers in a grocery supermarket, and of course they are too old to be in whatever profession that they were in, so there they are, bagging groceries.

At least Mary can work in her profession to make money for her grandchildren.

Also, telling children that they are going to get a very nice inheritance usually creates lazy children who become dependant on others. Better to teach children ambition, determination and survival, all skills that Mary now has.

This is not Mary bashing, just the way I feel about the subject in general, not Mary specifically.

That is the reason and she will not change her mind about it!

[milven]

That is the reason and she will not change her mind about it!

Well, if that is the reason that she still works, she should either say that in interviews, or not bring up the subject at all. To give an alternative fact statement that she HAS to work is not true. And to say it publicly makes people think here is another former Supreme one step away from welfare.

But I'll leave it at that. Good to see entertainers of my generation out there entertaining because they still enjoy it, not because they have to. Glad Mary does not have to, although those were her words

[marv2]

Well, if that is the reason that she still works, she should either say that in interviews, or not bring up the subject at all. To give an alternative fact statement that she HAS to work is not true. And to say it publicly makes people think here is another former Supreme one step away from welfare.

But I'll leave it at that. Good to see entertainers of my generation out there entertaining because they still enjoy it, not because they have to. Glad Mary does not have to, although those were her words

I will admit she may need to choose her words more carefully. Her requirements could be very different than someone else to be satisfied. Ya know? Let's just hope on behalf of all the artists that gave us all that great music that the Bill passes and they can get the money they are owed.

[Roberta75]

If that is the reason that she is still working in her seventies, then she should not say that she has to work. I know some people her age that have to work to keep a roof over their head. They lived too large when they were younger, borrowed equity from their homes, and are still payinng off mortgages to keep a roof over their head. I doubt that they choose to be baggers in a grocery supermarket, and of course they are too old to be in whatever profession that they were in, so there they are, bagging groceries.

At least Mary can work in her profession to make money for her grandchildren.

Also, telling children that they are going to get a very nice inheritance usually creates lazy children who become dependant on others. Better to teach children ambition, determination and survival, all skills that Mary now has.

This is not Mary bashing, just the way I feel about the subject in general, not Mary specifically.

Id take what he says with a grain of salt. If what hes saying is true and i have my doubts I dont think Mary Wilson would be happy that hes either sharing this or making it up.

[helga]

Was that Mary I saw sneaking on the city bus without paying her fare ?? LOL!!!!

LMAO!!!!

I agree with much of what has already been said here. The legacy artists should get their dues but unfortunately the streaming royalties will not be enough to secure a comfortable retirement. Mary has had more opportunities than most of her peers and has had more money pass through her hands than most people. Just think about Cindy Birdsong or others who had to work real jobs and struggled to make ends meet. Her situation is quite sad. I hope she managed to sell her multi million dollar home in Vegas.

I am aware that Mary once met the Pope and has ties to the Vatican. Perhaps they can tap into their alms box in order to provide assistance?

[midnightman]

I think streaming royalties are too small for artists. But I blame that on labels, they're still trying to make sure the artist gets little.

[marv2]

LMAO!!!!

I agree with much of what has already been said here. The legacy artists should get their dues but unfortunately the streaming royalties will not be enough to secure a comfortable retirement. Mary has had more opportunities than most of her peers and has had more money pass through her hands than most people. Just think about Cindy Birdsong or others who had to work real jobs and struggled to make ends meet. Her situation is quite sad. I hope she managed to sell her multi million dollar home in Vegas.

I am aware that Mary once met the Pope and has ties to the Vatican. Perhaps they can tap into their alms box in order to provide assistance?

Mary did perform for Pope John Paul II at the Vatican.

[helga]

In all seriousness, I wish Mary well and hope that things will work out for her. She shouldn't have to be working at this age if she doesn't want to be. I'm sure she still enjoys performing but I would imagine there's an added stress factor due to uncertainty with future bookings, which are fewer these days compared to years ago. As some have already pointed out, there are still opportunities for her to generate income. She's a smart woman. She will find a way, like she always has. Spear heading this campaign is a good move for her own pocket and also a good way to get her name out there. Go Mary !

[luke]

My father said similar to my brother and I about working to give us a nice inheritance [[ it was a way to Demonstrate love, especially for his generation)and I haves worked two jobs, sometimes three for over 30 years and my brother built a company from a small unsuccessful business to a very successful enterprise, working 15 hours a day. Such stereotypes...

[TheMotownManiac]

Jay Schwartz is Mary's publicist of more than 30 years. She also has two principle agencies for bookings. Oh and she is not in trouble and that is all I am going to say. LOL!!!!

Jay is a mouthpiece for Mary, and will sometimes hook her up with something, but 95% of her publicity is generated by the work she is doing and those employing her. Jay is not on retainer to get her on the cover of People, for instance, or on a list of ten bests or the usual stuff publicists do for the majority of their income. Mary doesn’t need that kind of publicity and wouldn’t pay for it at this point if she did. When she appears at Feinsteins, for example, they take care of the publicity and get her interviews etc - plus, because of her historic presence, she is sought out for comments and interviews which may or may not go through Jay.

Mary works through several agencies regularly, but anyone can book her. She can also book herself and just use an agency for the legalities. She doesn’t need an agency to get Feinstein or BBKings, Blues Alley etc. they know they will do good business with Mary and seek her out. No one wants to pay percentages if they don’t have to, and these smaller venues work hard to avoid them. Most if Mary’s private gigs come from agencies working on her behalf. They can be unscrupulous with their talent. Let’s say Verizon wants a 50k act for a gig, and Mary’s fee is 17.5. The agency may try to get the 50k, hire Mary at 17.5 or lower, then pocket the rest. That was hypothetical, but happens all too often and I’m sure most acts have had this happen.

[Roberta75]

I am aware that Mary once met the Pope and has ties to the Vatican. Perhaps they can tap into their alms box in order to provide assistance?

I doubt theyd have the money after all the hush money theyve paid out over the years for child sex abuse. Pope Benedict and Mary Wilsons pal John Paul being the worst offenders in covering up for pedofile priests and cardinals. All the children's life's that were ruined and yet they help covered it up. Thank the good Lord this current Pope Francis seems much more decent and not involved in dirty cover ups.

[Roberta75]

In all seriousness, I wish Mary well and hope that things will work out for her. She shouldn't have to be working at this age if she doesn't want to be. I'm sure she still enjoys performing but I would imagine there's an added stress factor due to uncertainty with future bookings, which are fewer these days compared to years ago. As some have already pointed out, there are still opportunities for her to generate income. She's a smart woman. She will find a way, like she always has. Spear heading this campaign is a good move for her own pocket and also a good way to get her name out there. Go Mary !

Very well said Helga. I fully agree.