MARY WILSON says She Has To Work - Campaigns for Royalty Legislation for Streaming

[milven]

Mary Wilson and Darlene Love are fighting for legislation to pay royalties to artists recordings from prior to 1972. If I understand the article correctly, radio and streaming do not have to pay royalies for music recorded before 1972.

It was no big problem before, because the audiences would hear the music, buy the CD and the artists were compensated from the CD royalty. But now, there are minimul CD sales, and the artists are not getting any compensation for the music before 1972.



Mary says that ".. with the digital world coming in, when they play your music you are not getting compensated because people don’t want to go out and buy CDs and albums like they used to. That was our payback.”

Mary said that she continues to perform because she has to make up for that lost revenue.

Mary said, “Now we have to work to get [that] back. Guess what? I have to. At 73 years old, I should be sitting at home and only working when I want to work, not because I have to work. I don’t have that income anymore.”

Interesting article. So if we are sitting at home or in the car listening to an oldies station or a streaming service, any song from before 1972 is being played without paying any royalty.

Almost like the recordings are now in public domain, but they are not. Royalties are still paid for sales, but not for plays. Doesn't sound too fair to me.

http://variety.com/2018/politics/new...ct-1202700035/

[midnightman]

With THIS government? Child boo...

I appreciate Mary's [[and all legacy artists') fight to get royalties but Jesus...

There's a lot I can say about the way the industry has ripped off a lot of artists. They shouldn't be fighting this late in the game in their 60s and 70s.

Then again, I still appreciate the fight.

They do need to change royalty payments for streaming though.

[Roberta75]

Mary Wilson and Darlene Love are fighting for legislation to pay royalties to artists recordings from prior to 1972. If I understand the article correctly, radio and streaming do not have to pay royalies for music recorded before 1972.

It was no big problem before, because the audiences would hear the music, buy the CD and the artists were compensated from the CD royalty. But now, there are minimul CD sales, and the artists are not getting any compensation for the music before 1972.



Mary says that ".. with the digital world coming in, when they play your music you are not getting compensated because people don’t want to go out and buy CDs and albums like they used to. That was our payback.”

Mary said that she continues to perform because she has to make up for that lost revenue.

Mary said, “Now we have to work to get [that] back. Guess what? I have to. At 73 years old, I should be sitting at home and only working when I want to work, not because I have to work. I don’t have that income anymore.”

Interesting article. So if we are sitting at home or in the car listening to an oldies station or a streaming service, any song from before 1972 is being played without paying any royalty.

Almost like the recordings are now in public domain, but they are not. Royalties are still paid for sales, but not for plays. Doesn't sound too fair to me.

http://variety.com/2018/politics/new...ct-1202700035/

Its real sad that anyone has to work at almost 74. Marys right at 74 you should only work when you want to work and not because you have to work. Im sure Darlenes in the same boat. I think Martha has the luxury of only working when she wants to.

[midnightman]

^ Why you say that, Roberta? Not saying I deny it but why you think that? Does she co-own the music now?

I'm guessing this is what this current act that is going around [[name escapes me) is all about then.

[Roberta75]

^ Why you say that, Roberta? Not saying I deny it but why you think that? Does she co-own the music now?

I'm guessing this is what this current act that is going around [[name escapes me) is all about then.

I was told by family in Highland Park area of Detroit that knows Martha that Martha Reeves is real good with money and has quite a bit of savings set aside. I pray this is true.

fondly,

Roberta

[midnightman]

I was told by family in Highland Park area of Detroit that knows Martha that Martha Reeves is real good with money and has quite a bit of savings set aside. I pray this is true.

fondly,

Roberta

OH OK!
I hope that's the case too.
She don't perform as much as she used to either, I notice... so yeah she might be well off. Let's hope.

[Roberta75]

OH OK!
I hope that's the case too.
She don't perform as much as she used to either, I notice... so yeah she might be well off. Let's hope.

Thats right im praying my family is right and Queen Marthas real comfortable financially and in good health at 76 years young 😀👍

[thanxal]

Go Mary! Streaming is a rip off to artists. They get next to nothing. This is the same reason bootlegs are morally unacceptable - the artists are the ones who get hurt the most and need the income the most.

[marv2]

Wow! She is looking great! Is that Darlene Love with them?

[luke]

She sure is and that sure is Darlene! They should both give health and wellness tips..they defy age!

[marv2]

She sure is and that sure is Darlene! They should both give health and wellness tips..they defy age!

Those are two amazing looking women. They should consider doing just that!

[Circa 1824]

Apparently, Wilson hardly has 2 nickels to rub together.

[Roberta75]

Apparently, Wilson hardly has 2 nickels to rub together.

Thats not true and you shouldnt be spreading any misinformation. You need to learn to take the high road when it comes to Mary Wilson.

[midnightman]

Go Mary! Streaming is a rip off to artists. They get next to nothing. This is the same reason bootlegs are morally unacceptable - the artists are the ones who get hurt the most and need the income the most.

I really wished the Supremes [[and other Motown acts minus Stevie) had really gotten someone to read the contracts before signing them. Like other labels, Motown really didn't help to show them how to maintain the money they were earning. It's like when that dude from Rose Royce said about Norman.

Also, I think if Mary had found a way to get the name in her [[and Florence's and Diana's) control, more money could be earned no matter what. But of course they should've invested in publishing and masters ownership since that's still where the real money is. Songwriters had to recently fight for more streaming royalties because they were getting ripped off too.

And really the labels helped to make it that way since they probably told a bunch of fables to the artists who they were signing deals with, especially the ones that went with 360 type contracts.

As for Darlene, I don't think she ever got paid for all the stuff she did with Phil Spector, did she?

[thanxal]

I really wished the Supremes [[and other Motown acts minus Stevie) had really gotten someone to read the contracts before signing them. Like other labels, Motown really didn't help to show them how to maintain the money they were earning. It's like when that dude from Rose Royce said about Norman.

Also, I think if Mary had found a way to get the name in her [[and Florence's and Diana's) control, more money could be earned no matter what. But of course they should've invested in publishing and masters ownership since that's still where the real money is. Songwriters had to recently fight for more streaming royalties because they were getting ripped off too.

And really the labels helped to make it that way since they probably told a bunch of fables to the artists who they were signing deals with, especially the ones that went with 360 type contracts.

As for Darlene, I don't think she ever got paid for all the stuff she did with Phil Spector, did she?

Isn’t it pathetic to work all your life to bring joy to millions and millions to record companies only to end up having to work into your 70s?

[gman]

IMHO...The entire industry should have seen this coming when downloading was first proposed. I for one wish it were reversed, wiped out and hard product reintroduced.
No doubt, my age has a lot to do with m preference for collecting music.

[reese]

As for Darlene, I don't think she ever got paid for all the stuff she did with Phil Spector, did she?

Darlene won a lawsuit against Phil Spector for royalties some time back. But I think there might have been issues with getting payment and she and the Ronettes ended up filing suit again.

[motony]

I will be seeing both Martha Reeves & Mary Wilson next Saturday[[24th)in Daytona Beach. They both stay busy & seem in good health and I think they both really enjoy performing.From what I heard from many sources Darlene Love was well compensated by Phil Spector, and made more then what she would have made from strictly royalties and that even in the 70's he was paying her rent[[She even said that in book interview).

[PeaceNHarmony]

Thats not true and you shouldnt be spreading any misinformation. You need to learn to take the high road when it comes to Mary Wilson.

Mary has a loyal audience and with her 2 books having been best-sellers I often think she should write another, maybe more of a self-help / mid-life & onward sort of book. She could maybe also work with a co-writer/ghost-writer on a fiction romance novel [[regardless if she 'needs' the money or not) using life experiences of herself and her friends. Could be fun for Mary and her audience -

[jobeterob]

Mary has a loyal audience and with her 2 books having been best-sellers I often think she should write another, maybe more of a self-help / mid-life & onward sort of book. She could maybe also work with a co-writer/ghost-writer on a fiction romance novel [[regardless if she 'needs' the money or not) using life experiences of herself and her friends. Could be fun for Mary and her audience -

But isn't it true that there isn't a big market for any of this from any of them anymore? There time was 30 years ago.

This is all a shame that they've ended up with not very much coming in. I'm sure at one time, they all did well - but things changed and they have to live off what they can get out of performing because royalties are now nothing.

[PeaceNHarmony]

But isn't it true that there isn't a big market for any of this from any of them anymore? There time was 30 years ago.

This is all a shame that they've ended up with not very much coming in. I'm sure at one time, they all did well - but things changed and they have to live off what they can get out of performing because royalties are now nothing.

Largely, yes, but the book market is a bit different than music especially for women's-oriented books, fiction and non-fiction. As well the African American book market [[again, largely women's) is quite robust as is the women's romance market. For Mary W along with a regular book tour she can also publicize [[and sell) a book at any event, musical, interview, etc. As we see from frequent posts here there is still an active interview market with Mary for all things Motown so tie-in opps are certainly there.

[PeaceNHarmony]

... here's another idea. If Wilson wants to go the M'town route again, how about a 'Mothers of Motown' non-fiction, with Mary interviewing as many remaining Motowners as she can about their memories / profiles of their moms and their influence on their lives, before-during-after stardom? Could be very interesting and a nice tie-in to Mother's Day gifting as well as Black History Month.

[Motown Eddie]

I really wished the Supremes [[and other Motown acts minus Stevie) had really gotten someone to read the contracts before signing them. Like other labels, Motown really didn't help to show them how to maintain the money they were earning. It's like when that dude from Rose Royce said about Norman.

Also, I think if Mary had found a way to get the name in her [[and Florence's and Diana's) control, more money could be earned no matter what. But of course they should've invested in publishing and masters ownership since that's still where the real money is. Songwriters had to recently fight for more streaming royalties because they were getting ripped off too.

And really the labels helped to make it that way since they probably told a bunch of fables to the artists who they were signing deals with, especially the ones that went with 360 type contracts.

As for Darlene, I don't think she ever got paid for all the stuff she did with Phil Spector, did she?

All of that is true but remember that everybody was young when they signed their recording contracts and they signed with independent recording companies which did not give them the best deals [[it might've been a little better if they had signed with one of the majors but they we're not doing Soul/R&B at that time). And while I feel it's a long shot with this 'administration', I wish Mary, Darlene [[and others) good luck with their campaigns.

[jobeterob]

The sad truth is that try as they might, there isn't much that is going to be done to change things back to the way they were. It's been an uphill battle for 25 years and gradually, incomes have declined from sales of music. Performing is what gives them any money.

If for whatever reason, their money is gone - there is little prospect of getting it in the future.

[BayouMotownMan]

Mary has been saying she is struggling financially for a few years.

I think this is a two part situation. Yes, many artists were swindled by record companies. But keep in mind, these artists were only at their respective record companies for as few as five years and in Mary's case close to 20 years. They've been gone far longer. Most of these artists have not sold a significant amount of records or CDs in some cases, for 50 years.

The other problem is not knowing how to manage money and not planning ahead. Martha I applaud, she lives within her means. Diana Ross knows how to manage her money. Look what just happened to Eddie Holland. Sorry guys, I love these artists, but, as in the case of Holland, when you've had worldwide sales of 100 million or more and broke in your 70s, then you didn't handle your money well.

[Zantellor]

Mary could do a book something like On The Road with The Supremes. She could just tell the stories of their travels on the road. The good the bad the funny etc.

[jobeterob]

When you have so much coming in so young [[and you came up with nothing), it was very hard to understand it could all be gone one day; who would have thought there wouldn't be records in the 1960's? who would have thought things would be mostly digital in the 80's? Who would have thought the money would stop?

And most of the recording artists had very little to rely on. Probably the Motown artists had it better than some others because Berry still seems to care about them and most of them care about him.

If Martha Reeves has managed, a big YAH to Martha. She has a very decent, kind on line persona as well.

[midnightman]

Diana's currently selling her brand of perfume. Not to mention she bought real estate after leaving Motown and basically created those TV specials from her own production company so she can try to reap from the $20 million RCA deal. Diana had to look for ways where financially she'll be stable for the rest of her life and make sure her children benefit.

I think with MANY artists, most didn't spend their money wisely. Most get money and then waste it on many lavish items. If MC Hammer was any proof, artists who get paid often spend or waste money on something they'd regret later.

In case of Martha, she seems to have learned from the past. So as mentioned, she's doing alright. I also hope she has health insurance too. Maybe that's another reason so many want money from royalties now.

[PeaceNHarmony]

As a matter of principle of course royalties should be paid, but I wouldn't encourage any of these performers to expect any real $ even if the battle is won. BTW - has anyone here actually contacted any of the concerned parties and actually petitioned for the performers in question? In the long run our discussions do nothing to forward the argument.

[marv2]

I am very proud of Mary. She has worked tirelessly for years for artists rights. When I think about what happened to TLC, Toni Braxton, MC Hammer and even Florence Ballard to name a few, it makes me truly appreciate the hard work Mary has put in on behalf of the artists. You go Mary Wilson!

[vgalindo]

Diana's currently selling her brand of perfume. Not to mention she bought real estate after leaving Motown and basically created those TV specials from her own production company so she can try to reap from the $20 million RCA deal. Diana had to look for ways where financially she'll be stable for the rest of her life and make sure her children benefit.

I think with MANY artists, most didn't spend their money wisely. Most get money and then waste it on many lavish items. If MC Hammer was any proof, artists who get paid often spend or waste money on something they'd regret later.

In case of Martha, she seems to have learned from the past. So as mentioned, she's doing alright. I also hope she has health insurance too. Maybe that's another reason so many want money from royalties now.

Diana back in the 80's and 90's was one of the highest paid performers for her concerts in Vegas, etc. I am sure she invested and put away a lot of her earnings from her huge sold out international tours! She really didn't rely or need royalties from record sales.

[midnightman]

That's what I want to mention also, she was selling out concerts in the U.S., Europe and Asia [[especially Europe since she toured there a lot, ESPECIALLY in the UK).

I just wish a lot of the Motown acts did what she did but I guess the real big ones will be okay: Marvin's estate is seeing money and Stevie, Smokey and Diana are multi-millionaires. Yet the songwriters, producers and other acts are still struggling. It's deeper than Motown money.

[jobeterob]

Unfortunately that picture of Mary isn't a very flattering one either.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Of course there are millions of 70+ year-olds who REALLY still need to work to pay for groceries and rent, not 'star' lifestyles, and don't have the cushy fall-back that some performers have ... and will never get a royalty for work they did nearly 60 years ago. Just sayin'; keepin' it real.

[midnightman]

^ Well doggone, PNH, you didn't have to go there! LOL but I feel ya. Keep it 100 lol

[PeaceNHarmony]

^ Well doggone, PNH, you didn't have to go there! LOL but I feel ya. Keep it 100 lol

Ha! I know ... But here in the US we're looking at massive cuts to Medicare/aid, CHIP/foodstamps, SS, etc. Earlier in the thread I was supportive of Mary in terms of other things I think she can do for a new income stream. My comment was not against her but instead against our celebrity culture. I support Mary's action on the royalty issue but stop short on her 'I have to work for a living'. It ain't like she's doin' the overnight shift at Dunkin Donuts for minimum wage and travelling and hour and a half on public transportation to do so. So go, Mary, with your efforts, and take my suggestion about a new book. But other people are hurting more.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Unfortunately that picture of Mary isn't a very flattering one either.

Oh NOW you've opened the BOWELS OF HELL!!!

[midnightman]

Ha! I know ... But here in the US we're looking at massive cuts to Medicare/aid, CHIP/foodstamps, SS, etc. Earlier in the thread I was supportive of Mary in terms of other things I think she can do for a new income stream. My comment was not against her but instead against our celebrity culture. I support Mary's action on the royalty issue but stop short on her 'I have to work for a living'. It ain't like she's doin' the overnight shift at Dunkin Donuts for minimum wage and travelling and hour and a half on public transportation to do so. So go, Mary, with your efforts, and take my suggestion about a new book. But other people are hurting more.

True. What she gets for performance money is more than the average worker gets in their paycheck.

[BayouMotownMan]

True. What she gets for performance money is more than the average worker gets in their paycheck.

Yes but Mary has a high overhead. She has to pay musicians, singers, costuming and whatever royalties on music performed, managers, a publicist. She doesn't walk away with much. Primarily known as a background singer, her bookings have dried up considerably because of her advanced years and a diminishing audience potential at any given venue.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Yes but Mary has a high overhead. She has to pay musicians, singers, costuming and whatever royalties on music performed, managers, a publicist. She doesn't walk away with much. Primarily known as a background singer, her bookings have dried up considerably because of her advanced years and a diminishing audience potential at any given venue.

That's her problem, to be honest. Lots of people her age have far bigger problems and less opportunities. She made big $ from the books and should have learned from her earlier years. Millions would take her overhead and take-home over their lives. Gettin' REAL real, I'm sure Mary qualifies for SS & Medicaid [[at least) - most people her age never had the income she had and do manage to live without working. This is not 'anti-Mary' - it's anti-celebrity worship and just the facts.

[midnightman]

It's hard to think of people like Mary, Darlene and Diana as "regular" people. As PNH pointed out, they ain't gotta worry about being homeless. Like I said when this thread started, this government we got is a craphole.

I'd be happy if Mary gets what she wants out of the streaming royalties but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it if she doesn't [[she's a survivor, she'll make a way, she always has). Just like I didn't lose sleep when she, Dionne and Patti were going to Congress talking about radio needed to pay 'em.

[imakicola]

You see, I kind of agree. But I kind of disagree.

I AGREE she should get royalties. I AGREE that in the 70’s she had no reason to think the recording industry would become what it is in the 2010’s.

BUT.

She was still making bank for many, many years! In any other profession, she could have been putting money away for retirement. She said she was making 1,000,000/year in 2000!

I don’t understand why people who get rich and famous often don’t put money away for the future!

I don’t actually know that she didn’t put money away. But my family is all at retirement age and if any of them said to me “I can’t believe I have to work at my age” I would tell them they should have been saving before they got to this age!

[jobeterob]

The answer to that question is the vicious circle of........

The more you have, the more you want, the more you need

It happens in lots of professions

You don’t need a new truck every year but when you can’t have it after having it for years, it’s so heartbreaking [[much sarcasm there)

[midnightman]

I remember her mentioning she made a million a year the year the controversy went down with the Supremes tour.

It must be an issue with tax returns. Taxes are way high in the west where Mary live at [[in Nevada, last I checked).

[jobeterob]

Livin high on the hog for what you make maybe

[thanxal]

Mary should fight for what she is entitled, regardless of the fact that there are
a) people poorer than her in the world, or
b) how she chooses to spend her money.

These are both arguments the entitled elite in this country make to keep making everyone in this country poorer and take away what little they have. They point to the fact that a poor person has a cell phone and say “see they aren’t poor enough“ or they say “look at how they spend their money”. Both of these are elitist tropes used by the super wealthy to punish the poor. They change the terms of the debate from what people rightfully deserve [[a descent wage for a descent day’s work) to unqualified moral judgments about what people do with the little they have. It works like gang-busters for the Republican Party as they can easily find one thing [[in the 50s it was a refrigerator) and deflect the fact that wages haven’t risen considerably since the 1960s and that stable, viable employment is gone in this country for the poor and middle classes.

Mary should fight tooth and nail for every penny she earned and deserves. If more people thought like her, we’d have much better working conditions in this country. I’m not going to get into the trite, stupid Supremes fights on this thread. Go Mary!

[midnightman]

Except no one is engaging in "stupid Supremes fights".

Don't even read like one?

Maybe we're looking at different threads.

You can say Mary needs to fight for royalties and also say that she's doing better than the average joe? That's not offensive, last I checked.

[marv2]

I see Mary is standing with her buddy, Rep. Darrell Issa who is a super millionaire. Maybe they should have coffee. LOL!!!!

[thanxal]

Except no one is engaging in "stupid Supremes fights".

Don't even read like one?

Maybe we're looking at different threads.

You can say Mary needs to fight for royalties and also say that she's doing better than the average joe? That's not offensive, last I checked.

Read further down the thread. There’s definitely some Mary bashing going on.

The average joe wasn’t what I was referring to regarding the silly fights.

[waynesville]

I had no idea there were no royalties for streamed tunes pre-1972. Not that streaming revenue is very high of course. But Mary is absolutely right that this needs changing.

BUT......it's depressingly common that stars often can't handle money. Someone mentioned Eddie Holland earlier, Marvin Gaye also had tax problems. Aretha's lack of trust meant that her financial affairs were often in a mess too. Dionne Warwick was ruined by a vast tax debt dating back to 1991.

Not being good with money doesn't have to be end of the world, IF you find good - and honest - advisers; people would get you to save and invest for the future, manage your tax, royalties and all that stuff. No easy thing to do when you're young and your wealth attracts all kind of hustlers.

It means having some business sense too - look at Curtis Mayfield's determination to own himself, having as much of the pie in his name as possible. He was well ahead of his time in that respect, but acquiring that sense isn't easy to do.

It sounds a bit moralistic but survival also means keeping some sort of control and discipline over your personal life, which again relates to finding close and trusted confidents - Marvin Gaye's affairs would have been much better without his ruinous coke addiction for example. The whole world of music is littered with the sad cases of flawed geniuses whose addiction cost them everything - think David Ruffin Gil Scott-Heron and Dinah Washington among so many others

I'm actually curious as to whether the faith of seriously religious artists [[Jean Terrell or the Staples Singers for example) gave them some protection that way.

Finally of course there is the horror of health bills. Here in England no-one worries about the cost of being ill or the idea that it might drive you bankrupt, [[although that might change when the economy collapses after Brexit).

This has been a really sad and important thread, and I hope I haven’t gone on for too long. I hope Mary's campaign has some success, but the problem at root is so much deeper because it is about human weaknesses.