Vocal Chord Damage:Dion Adele Shakira Losing Voices

**jobeterob** · 01-27-2018, 12:52 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/entertai...uble-1.4506016

**marv2** · 01-27-2018, 01:26 PM

Yeah, well they are not made from the "right stuff" like many of our Classic artists. Heck, Smokey Robinson, Mary Wilson, Stevie Wonder and Gladys Knight have done thousands of live performances for nearly sixty years and they still have great, strong voices today.

**Weslley Francisco** · 01-27-2018, 07:40 PM

Every singer have bad days, it happens. As you get older you lose range, power, habilities, etc.
But you need to take care of your voice, warming up, not drinking alcohol, not smoking, not screaming, a healthy technique is very important!
Celine's songs are very demanding, she's nearly 50, all she needs is to lower the key of the songs and rest.

**marv2** · 01-27-2018, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Weslley Francisco

Every singer have bad days, it happens. As you get older you lose range, power, habilities, etc.
But you need to take care of your voice, warming up, not drinking alcohol, not smoking, not screaming, a healthy technique is very important!
Celine's songs are very demanding, she's nearly 50, all she needs is to lower the key of the songs and rest.

Celine Dion is one of my absolute favorites.

**Circa 1824** · 01-27-2018, 10:50 PM

It would be a crime against humanity if Celine lost her magnificent voice. To my ears, she has the greatest voice in music.

Her true life story of childhood poverty, being the youngest of 10 [[?) children, and her rise to super wealth is equivalent to fairytales told to children. I also love how she has taken all her siblings with her on her rise to the top. I thought of Diana when Celine said her husband’s greatest achievement was her career.

**jobeterob** · 01-28-2018, 12:09 AM

I thought of Aretha Franklin when I read this. hers is a voice that has seen a dramatic change. But Adele and Celine Dion are so much younger

**marv2** · 01-28-2018, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

I thought of Aretha Franklin when I read this. hers is a voice that has seen a dramatic change. But Adele and Celine Dion are so much younger

Being it is you, you should have immediately thought of Diana Ross whose voice has left building years ago!

**vgalindo** · 01-28-2018, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Being it is you, you should have immediately thought of Diana Ross whose voice has left building years ago!

Well here goes Marv starting again! But his defenders will say it's only his opinion. Well I say it's only him trying to start trouble. I could also say it's so funny when he lists Mary Wilson in the same company of the great Smokey Robinson, Gladys Knight and Stevie Wonder. That is too funny listing a hand clapping backup singer to these solo superstars!! And that is my opinion!! Lol

**jobeterob** · 01-28-2018, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by vgalindo

Well here goes Marv starting again! But his defenders will say it's only his opinion. Well I say it's only him trying to start trouble. I could also say it's so funny when he lists Mary Wilson in the same company of the great Smokey Robinson, Gladys Knight and Stevie Wonder. That is too funny listing a hand clapping backup singer to these solo superstars!! And that is my opinion!! Lol

The real difference is that outside of old motown fans, nobody knows who Mary Wilson is let alone comparing her to Diana Celine Elton Smokey etc

Interestingly, because Mary never actually sang much nor is much of a singer, her voice didn't deteriorate like these singers mentioned in the article

Just another opinion

**Circa 1824** · 01-28-2018, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Yeah, well they are not made from the "right stuff" like many of our Classic artists. Heck, Smokey Robinson, Mary Wilson, Stevie Wonder and Gladys Knight have done thousands of live performances for nearly sixty years and they still have great, strong voices today.

Wilson never had it. Can’t lose something that was never there. LOL

**smallworld** · 01-28-2018, 07:59 AM

I've seen videos on youtube for Celine Dion and Mariah Carey where fans compare certain money notes in live performances and the consensus is that some of those sections of their hits are always lipsynced. That doesn't surprise me.

I don't think it's necessarily a case that the old school artists were so much more expert at maintaining their voices - more that the styles and demands of their singing are different. Belters that have a style derived as much from Broadway as Gospel are expected to have a clean sound. Soul singers can get away with added rasp - they can also scream/shout a note and they won't get the criticism for it that a pop/Broadway style singer would.

Gladys does indeed still sound wonderful.

**Bluebrock** · 01-28-2018, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Being it is you, you should have immediately thought of Diana Ross whose voice has left building years ago!

As opposed to Mary Wilson whose voice never actually arrived at the building in the first place!Comparing that woman's mediocre Voice to the likes of genuine talents such as Gladys, Smokey and Stevie is s great insult to those great artists.

**Albator** · 01-28-2018, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Circa 1824

Wilson never had it. Can’t lose something that was never there. LOL

That's very funny

**RanRan79** · 01-28-2018, 07:32 PM

He sent out the bait and the rest of y'all couldn't resist being hooked. Marv congratulations. Mission accomplished. I'm beginning to see why it might be so much fun for you, seeing how easy it is for you to get reactions.

**loganjlr** · 01-29-2018, 01:02 AM

I think the voices of these superstars and their longevity depend on multiple factors, mainly the way they have led their lifestyle and the style they are known for aging with them. For example, while Dionne Warwick's voice "evolved" from belting as heard earlier in her career, I feel much of her style change to Jazz had to do with her declining range. When she's on stage, there's no question she understands how to hit those notes and how to sing properly, but her predilection to smoking Virginia Slims has taken its toll on what she is physically capable of doing nowadays.

I definitely give her credit where its due; while her ability to sing her songs in a way which resembles the original has diminished, she doesn't try to force herself to sing in a way which isn't natural to her. I think it was a professional decision of her to recompose her hits and not try to recreate a sound that is no longer in reach, because after the 1990s, she started to see the wear and tear her voice had acquired.

In cases like Mary Wilson, I think her voice has aged well, but her insistence on singing Supremes hits that were tailored toward Diana in her recent twilight years doesn't help her case. Even if you listen to her debut solo concert in 1979, the Supremes medley she performs seems like a half-baked mimic of the versions sung by Diana and Jean [[excluding Scherrie since I *believe* Mary took over a lot of the leads for the Supremes Hit medleys after Jean left). While I do love Mary's take on "Stoned Love," I wish she would play more songs like "The Tears" and "He's My Man," less popular Supremes songs that showcased her voice more and could introduce old fans to "new" material. I'm sure the reason she's kept those songs in her setlist because casual fans who buy her tickets probably want to hear 100% Supremes music from a former Supreme, even if it means an alto voice is covering "Baby Love," "Love Child," "Stop! In The Name of Love," etc.

I've given up on Mariah Carey. I think the devolution of her voice and lazy attitude toward performing have taken away my respect for her in recent years. I still buy her albums and enjoy her newer music, but I understand this is as good as it's going to get from 2017 onwards.

**bradsupremes** · 01-29-2018, 01:42 AM

I think lifestyle plays a major factor in these ladies' voices. Martha Reeves, Aretha, Dionne didn't care to take care of their voices nor care to adjust to singing properly by using vocal coaches. Today, it shows. Their voices are shells of their former selves. It's such a shame that these ladies who once had such incredible voices didn't care to protect their voices.

Celine Dion, Adele, Beyonce, Ariana Grande are power house belters. It's difficult to do 40-50+ city tours for months to nearly a year on end and expect your voice to be in tip-top shape each time. And every single one of those ladies I mentioned have vocal coaches ensuring they are using the proper breath control and vocal technique to protect their voices. Vocal rest is not uncommon. Anything they have to do to protect their voices, they will do it. I honestly don't know what happened to Mariah's voice. She's allowed her prima donna attitude to overtake her and I frankly don't care for her anymore or what she does. I love the Mariah Carey of the early to mid-90's. It's when she did "Butterfly" that I think she regressed backward.

Diana, Gladys, Mary, although different style vocalists, have maintained their voices. People will say Mary can't sing but a lot of that is due to the fact the Supremes' material written for Diana's voice doesn't fit her, but to hear Mary sing jazz or standards like "Body And Soul," and you'll see how strong of a voice she has. I was at a Smokey Robinson event for the Rock Hall with Mary, Martha & Dennis Edwards on the bill. Out of the three of them, Mary had the strongest voice and the people in the audience agreed. Martha was particularly annoyed at the after party due to everyone praising Mary and wanting to take photos with her.

Despite key changes, Gladys is probably one of the only artists I've ever heard who has basically the same voice that she did years and years ago.

**jobeterob** · 01-29-2018, 01:44 AM

Good post and of course you are correct about lifestyle

**Weslley Francisco** · 01-29-2018, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

I honestly don't know what happened to Mariah's voice. She's allowed her prima donna attitude to overtake her and I frankly don't care for her anymore or what she does. I love the Mariah Carey of the early to mid-90's. It's when she did "Butterfly" that I think she regressed backward.

Mariah it's a very delicate case, she has nodules on her vocal chords since she was a child.
Due the over-use of her voice during her debut years, not getting proper rest, and touring sick, her voice became a lot raspier after "Butterfly". It has become more difficult for her to reach certain notes as she never removed the nodules, she also drinks alcohol, and don't warm-up her voice as she should. She still have the range, but she can't hit the same notes from 28 years ago every single day, that's why she lip-syncs some of her high notes.
She also tends to write her songs in a very high key, that's one of the reasons her songs almost impossible to sing.

Diana lost just a little bit of her range, that's normal for a woman in her seventies, she is a Mezzo-soprano now. Her vibrato has become slower and her timbre has been changing since the late 90's, but her voice is still there!

Mary lost acess to the upper range after late 2000's, but that's normal, she's a Contralto not a Soprano, and she's also in her seventies. Her voice is very strong, and her vibrato still the same. But IMO, she needs to lower the key of some songs, such as "My World Is Empty Without You" and "I'm Changing"

**midnightman** · 01-30-2018, 10:45 PM

Lol I always thought there was drama between Mary and Martha.

But yeah, Mary has kept her vocals strong throughout the years. Same with Diana and Gladys. Diana still sounds almost like she did on the actual records, same with Gladys. Patti too [[she's calmed down some of the theatrics she did in her younger records but she can still SANG at 73).

Dionne was a chronic chain smoker. After so many years of that, is it no wonder she sounds too deep? I know some voices age as they get older, but not so much that when you do an old song, you have to take the song down 20 pitches!

Whitney had the same issue and she was much younger and y'all KNOW what she did.

Aretha got back some of her high range when she quit chain smoking [[and alcoholism) in 1991. Her range between 1994-1998 was INCREDIBLE but of course afterwards is when all those years of smoking, alcoholism and yo-yo dieting [[as well as oversinging) began taking its toll that by 2003, she basically had to switch from soprano to mezzo soprano. To hear her at 75, she sings fine for her age but definitely not at the peak it used to be in her youth or even when she had her [[third) comeback in the mid-90s.

Mariah's voice is basically like Aretha's NOW. And she's only 47. Wouldn't hurt for Mariah to downpitch though. Like we know you can't sing in the same key like you could with Always Be My Baby. She downpitched Vision of Love [[but then again that's been since 1995), why hasn't she downpitched the other ballads?

Adele's probably chain smoking and nodules. This is a woman who quit her first U.S. tour because of stage fright and she smoked so much she struggled to sing during initial recordings of "21". All that singing can take a toll if proper care isn't handled.

Celine Dion just oversang too much. Other than that, she still has the vocal style that made her a legend. Shakira was known to yodel a lot so it's easy to see how she's losing it [[which is why she is canceling dates left and right).

I say of all the legendary iconic women mentioned, only Patti LaBelle, Diana Ross and Gladys Knight have managed to still sound the same while the others have either lost range or just don't have it anymore.

**vgalindo** · 01-31-2018, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Lol I always thought there was drama between Mary and Martha.

But yeah, Mary has kept her vocals strong throughout the years. Same with Diana and Gladys. Diana still sounds almost like she did on the actual records, same with Gladys. Patti too [[she's calmed down some of the theatrics she did in her younger records but she can still SANG at 73).

Dionne was a chronic chain smoker. After so many years of that, is it no wonder she sounds too deep? I know some voices age as they get older, but not so much that when you do an old song, you have to take the song down 20 pitches!

Whitney had the same issue and she was much younger and y'all KNOW what she did.

Aretha got back some of her high range when she quit chain smoking [[and alcoholism) in 1991. Her range between 1994-1998 was INCREDIBLE but of course afterwards is when all those years of smoking, alcoholism and yo-yo dieting [[as well as oversinging) began taking its toll that by 2003, she basically had to switch from soprano to mezzo soprano. To hear her at 75, she sings fine for her age but definitely not at the peak it used to be in her youth or even when she had her [[third) comeback in the mid-90s.

Mariah's voice is basically like Aretha's NOW. And she's only 47. Wouldn't hurt for Mariah to downpitch though. Like we know you can't sing in the same key like you could with Always Be My Baby. She downpitched Vision of Love [[but then again that's been since 1995), why hasn't she downpitched the other ballads?

Adele's probably chain smoking and nodules. This is a woman who quit her first U.S. tour because of stage fright and she smoked so much she struggled to sing during initial recordings of "21". All that singing can take a toll if proper care isn't handled.

Celine Dion just oversang too much. Other than that, she still has the vocal style that made her a legend. Shakira was known to yodel a lot so it's easy to see how she's losing it [[which is why she is canceling dates left and right).

I say of all the legendary iconic women mentioned, only Patti LaBelle, Diana Ross and Gladys Knight have managed to still sound the same while the others have either lost range or just don't have it anymore.

I agree with your post 100 percent. I have seen Patti, Diana, and Gladys live in concert within the last few years and they really do sound the same. So many of the audience saying how good they still sound. I really love Dionne, Martha, and Aretha. But their voices have really changed.

**RanRan79** · 01-31-2018, 01:06 PM

Some of y'all must be listening to a different Diana Ross than I am. Lol I don't think she sounds anything like she once did. Her voice held up excellently until around 2004. That was the first time I went "uh oh". She had definitely lost command of some of those upper notes, and to my ears she still hasn't quite gotten them back. She does however have a beautiful lower register that I feel she under uses. [[Actually I feel like she/Motown has always under used her lower register.) On the jazzy stuff she seems to still excel, but those hits are often iffy for me.

Still, she is not in the conversation with the likes of Dionne and Martha who IMO sound horrible. Aretha still sounds great when she isn't reaching for notes she can't have anymore.

**vgalindo** · 01-31-2018, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Some of y'all must be listening to a different Diana Ross than I am. Lol I don't think she sounds anything like she once did. Her voice held up excellently until around 2004. That was the first time I went "uh oh". She had definitely lost command of some of those upper notes, and to my ears she still hasn't quite gotten them back. She does however have a beautiful lower register that I feel she under uses. [[Actually I feel like she/Motown has always under used her lower register.) On the jazzy stuff she seems to still excel, but those hits are often iffy for me.

Still, she is not in the conversation with the likes of Dionne and Martha who IMO sound horrible. Aretha still sounds great when she isn't reaching for notes she can't have anymore.

RanRan I thought that too about Diana Ross' voice. Something about TV and You tube does not do her voice justice. But when I saw her in Vegas a few years ago her vocals blew me away. I swear the people around me were all talking about how good she still sounded. Many saying she sounded the same and I had to agree with them. She is still really so amazing live. You should check her out!

**midnightman** · 01-31-2018, 05:14 PM

Sometimes what you hear on video is different when you hear it live.

**lockhartgary** · 01-31-2018, 07:54 PM

As far as voices that didn't hold up too well over time, add James Brown to that list. In the 1950s and early 1960s, he could handle a ballad quite well. "Bewildered", "Try Me", and "Prisoner of Love" are among his best. But by the 1970s, I couldn't even bring myself to listen to his ballads. And we are all familiar with how much he shouted.

**RanRan79** · 01-31-2018, 09:21 PM

Vgalindo and Midnight, I have to believe the two of you have a point about Diana's vocals in person vs video. I have to make it a point to finally see her live.

**RanRan79** · 01-31-2018, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by lockhartgary

As far as voices that didn't hold up too well over time, add James Brown to that list. In the 1950s and early 1960s, he could handle a ballad quite well. "Bewildered", "Try Me", and "Prisoner of Love" are among his best. But by the 1970s, I couldn't even bring myself to listen to his ballads. And we are all familiar with how much he shouted.

Wow, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I think Brother James' voice held up fantastically over the course of the 70s and into the 80s, considering the kind of damage he was likely doing to his voice with all that screaming. There was an obvious increase in rasp, but again, with the amount of screaming he was doing that was to be expected. I think he was nearly as good the singer as he had always been.

**lockhartgary** · 01-31-2018, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

Wow, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I think Brother James' voice held up fantastically over the course of the 70s and into the 80s, considering the kind of damage he was likely doing to his voice with all that screaming. There was an obvious increase in rasp, but again, with the amount of screaming he was doing that was to be expected. I think he was nearly as good the singer as he had always been.

Yeah, overall he did well but his ballads were what I was focusing on. He's one of my favorites of all time, but his ballad handling, in my opinion, did not hold up well. The funk stuff was off the chain.

**Albator** · 02-02-2018, 08:56 AM

I find that Diana's voice has changed for the better but not always.
She has lost some of her strength, her punch and sometimes, if she doesn't pay attention, it's a bit rough.
It's especially damaging on ANMHE's final, or The Boss.
On the other hand, it is deeper, more true. Her velvety sound is richer and soulful.
The Supremes' hits are taking full advantage of it. Reflexion, Love Child, My World is empty and all.

**midnightman** · 02-02-2018, 12:36 PM

^^ ANMHE and The Boss are very vocally punishing. Diana hits her highest notes on there lol

**marv2** · 02-10-2018, 04:32 AM

Diana Ross in Hawaii:

**Circa 1824** · 02-10-2018, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Diana Ross in Hawaii:

She desperately needs strings in the band to soften her rougher sound. She now tends to shout rather than sing.

**Albator** · 02-10-2018, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by RanRan79

He sent out the bait and the rest of y'all couldn't resist being hooked. Marv congratulations. Mission accomplished. I'm beginning to see why it might be so much fun for you, seeing how easy it is for you to get reactions.

It took longer than I thought, but now we can return him the compliment.