“Bad Weather”

[TheMotownManiac]

one thing that's puzzled me [[and maybe i'm taking to modern of an outlook on it) is that why in the 70s the supremes didn't have more voice in what they would record or what they would release. Sure i get it during the 60s - they were young AND berry was managing every step of Diana's career. but by the 70s i would have thought Mary at least would have had a bit more voice in the direction of things. maybe not releases but certainly of their concert material. which by late 72 was questionable at best. Seems like she really took things over post Jean and Lynda. wonder what might have happened had they done this together while Jean was in the group

or maybe that was part of the problem - with the conflicts between M and J, maybe they just couldn't take a unified direction on the group. I do also wonder if Mary wasn't instrumental in the lack of updating of their style and approach. She's said herself that she loved the glamour and glitz. maybe she was a significant part of the reluctance to become more in tune with the times

I think Berry had little respect for Mary or her opinions. Anyway, I doubt that she had the vision to lead the group. She certainly wasn’t able to when Pedro took over. Lynda was the most savvy of the lot, and had she stayed, things might have improved. What they needed was a manager with vision and they didn’t have it. Certainly Berry had no idea how to appeal to the 70s market - he was a rock n roller era dude. It’s sad cuz we all wanted our 2-For-1 stock split as promised, as evidenced by discussing what ifs for 5 decades later. TCB dresses in the sandbox says a lot. They should have refused and Jean should have refused to wear DR&TS gowns as identifiable as the green swirls, not to mention they were so hopelessly out of date. What were they thinking? Those gowns were brilliant 1968 pop art - not 1972 funk or granola. Geesh. No vision at all.

Gladys was a wise musician and business savvy. They needed someone like her to ask the tough questions, but I’m guessing maybe both Jean and Lynda did and that’s why they split. They knew they were not making any real money.

[BayouMotownMan]

It was Motown who removed Frank Wilson from producing The Supremes.

Typically at Motown, when a producer got a hit on an act, that producer would continue working exclusively with that act until the hits stopped. That is how Smokey lost the Temptations to Norman Whitfield. It's also how Whitfield lost The Temptations in 1974. The hits dried up.

It was obvious to Ewart Abner and company that the failure of the Touch lp and single meant that a new producer was needed on The Supremes. Smokey was no longer touring with the Miracles and preferred working with the female artists at Motown. The Marvelettes split up earlier in 1971, so Suzanne dePasse asked Smokey to try something on The Supremes while other producers, including Clay McMurray, Ashford & Simpson and Bobby Taylor did productions on the Supremes. This was the foundation for the material that could have been used for the Promises Kept lp.

Floy Joy was a big enough hit record for the ladies to maintain their performance fee. The Floy Joy album sold better than the last two Frank Wilson lps and all of the Four Tops duet albums. Logically, another Smokey album would have been the wiser decision. But the groups' manager Wayne Weisbart got Jimmy Webb interested in doing an lp on the ladies. They embraced the idea because, Jean especially, wanted to do more serious music. And this was the rope they used to hang themselves.

The Jimmy Webb lp came out at the same time as Lady Sings. Everything was riding on Diana's movie so all promotion was given to her. Gordy could have lost Motown if that movie bombed. He was not interested in a new sound for The Supremes. Around this time his established artists like the 4 Tops, Gladys & The Pips, Ashford & Simpson and The Spinners vacated Motown. They could see the trend and knew they were on board a musical Titanic. In hind site, Jean was probably right that the group sign with ABC, change the name to something recognizable like Supreme Ladies. They'd have had a fighting chance.

[jobeterob]

The early 70's were the era of the singer/songwriter - Carole King, Jim Croce, James Taylor and of course Stevie, Marvin, Smokey and Diana in the movies.

The Supremes in the old glitter gowns seemed so out of date especially with some of what they kept in their live act.

[BayouMotownMan]

That was my complaint, the club act. I attended Jean and Lynda's last performance as Supremes at Magic Mountain in Cal. They did full length versions of Stoned Love and Bad Weather and a quick medley of Jean's other hits. No Diana Ross hits were in the act. They did a 10 min version of Tossin and Turnin and equally as long on Love Train. I never could understand why each grouping of Supremes, with all these major hit records, were doing half the show with non-Supremes hits.

[luke]

I doubt a move to ABC would have worked. The Dixie Cups, Crystals And Flo all sank when they went to that label Which did not really have a stellar record with a lot of R&B acts. Atlantic may have been a great move though. Were any labels besides ABC interested?

[BayouMotownMan]

I doubt a move to ABC would have worked. The Dixie Cups, Crystals And Flo all sank when they went to that label Which did not really have a stellar record with a lot of R&B acts. Atlantic may have been a great move though. Were any labels besides ABC interested?

Yes but those acts had not risen to the legendary status of the Supremes. The 4 Tops went to ABC with stellar results.

[midnightman]

I doubt a move to ABC would have worked. The Dixie Cups, Crystals And Flo all sank when they went to that label Which did not really have a stellar record with a lot of R&B acts. Atlantic may have been a great move though. Were any labels besides ABC interested?

We're talking about the Supremes. It was different for Florence because she wasn't allowed to use her Supremes connection to get the promo [[the fact that her solo material was unfocused and badly produced was another reason Flo never really got her shine post-Supremes).

The Four Tops managed to score hits because they were big enough to still get ahead. I think it has to do with how business savvy you are and the Four Tops were the oldest Motown group in terms of age [[all of them were doggone near 40 when they signed with ABC in 1972 while two of the Supremes post DR were just 28).

And I don't think Mary was thinking of the future at the time or how to make sure they manage to leave the label with their name intact [[Motown never owned the Four Tops' name and Otis & Melvin were able to retain usage of the Temptations name before they left for Atlantic in 1977).

And like BMM just said, the Supremes were already legends by 1973. They could've found a way [[at least Mary anyway since she was the only original remaining at that point) to get back ownership of the name and move on with a label and get renewed push like the Tops did [[their last Motown recordings were duds but they revived themselves after the ABC move).

[marv2]

We're talking about the Supremes. It was different for Florence because she wasn't allowed to use her Supremes connection to get the promo [[the fact that her solo material was unfocused and badly produced was another reason Flo never really got her shine post-Supremes).

The Supremes would have not been allowed to use the name "The Supremes" or even say they were the Supremes had they left. That's why Mary decided to stay and fight with Motown.

[luke]

Exactly. Mary was quite smart not to leave. Mary Wells? The Temptations on Atlantic? And they had their names!

[sup_fan]

I think in some ways Mary was realistic enough to know that there's NO way motown or berry would allow any part of the Diana Ross story to be outside of his purview and control. The group had been a stepping stone for his goal of launching Diana and it had accomplished that goal. but he certainly wasn't going to allow any other record company to benefit from it. To have the group go to ABC or another label and in any way or form use "Supremes/Supreme" would have been in violation of the usage rights.

what surprises me the most is that by 73 mary had been in this career for 13+ years and frankly i find it rather incredulous that she knew so little of the the business side of her profession. She was nearly 30 yrs old. And she had seen Flo crumble and lose it all. Maybe fear was driving her more than anything else at this time. Fear that if they left motown she'd be throwing it all away too. She did at least know enough to realize she had to play by their rules to some degree. And i'm thinking that's why she stayed with motown. she didn't have any alternatives really.

[midnightman]

For Mary [[and to an extent, Diana), Motown was home to them and Mary couldn't see an alternative because of that, one. Two, she was probably not trustworthy of many people. Like Flo, she had try to keep the focus on the group and when that fell apart, maybe Mary just decided to deal. But I still think she should've learned how to survive because this business is easy to chew you up and spit you out. How you almost 30 and you can't get a hit after ten years of getting nothing BUT hits? Performing can only go so far until the only gigs you can get are clubs.

Motown sold Mary on that family thing and she probably didn't bother to check with Berry about that until it was too late.

[RanRan79]

Dumbest move Mary made was staying at Motown because she didn't want to lose the name Supremes. One has to wonder if she had left with Jean and Lynda and forged a new path, if it would have made for an easier transition when Mary decided to embark on a solo career. Those years of non hits after Jean left did no favors for Mary's solo start.

[milven]

The Supremes would have not been allowed to use the name "The Supremes" or even say they were the Supremes had they left. That's why Mary decided to stay and fight with Motown.

Some groups have left their names behind, and still found success.

Patti Labelle and the Bluebells reinvented themselves as LaBelle.
The Moments became Ray Goodman & Brown.
Jefferson Airplane became Jefferson Starship and then Starship.

I believe that when the Temps left for Atlantic, they were given the choice to either leave their name behind or take it and leave any future royalties from their catalogue behind.

Someone here can confirm this or correct me.

Some who left Motown continued to succeed without Motown [[Diana, 4 Tops, Marvin Gaye, Gladys Knight & the Pips)

[marv2]

Some groups have left their names behind, and still found success.

Patti Labelle and the Bluebells reinvented themselves as LaBelle.
The Moments became Ray Goodman & Brown.
Jefferson Airplane became Jefferson Starship and then Starship.

I believe that when the Temps left for Atlantic, they were given the choice to either leave their name behind or take it and leave any future royalties from their catalogue behind.

Someone here can confirm this or correct me.

Some who left Motown continued to succeed without Motown [[Diana, 4 Tops, Marvin Gaye, Gladys Knight & the Pips)

I understand what you are saying, but none of those names were as big as "The Supremes". Their name was in the realm of "Elvis", "The Beatles", "Sinatra" etc,etc.

[marv2]

Dumbest move Mary made was staying at Motown because she didn't want to lose the name Supremes. One has to wonder if she had left with Jean and Lynda and forged a new path, if it would have made for an easier transition when Mary decided to embark on a solo career. Those years of non hits after Jean left did no favors for Mary's solo start.

In Mary's defense [[naturally....) by her staying and continued association with "The Supremes", she has been able to continue work all over the World today.

[RanRan79]

In Mary's defense [[naturally....) by her staying and continued association with "The Supremes", she has been able to continue work all over the World today.

Yeah, but Mary only uses the name Supremes because she has been unsuccessful at carving out a career separate and apart from the name. Had Mary left Motown and been successful as a group or as a solo, she would not have to bill herself as Mary Wilson of the Supremes. With hindsight it was a good idea that she stuck it out because we know how the story eventually played out. But in my mind there was an alternate story here, one where Mary Wilson doesn't need the name Supremes to sell herself. She wasted years in the Supremes. It was a dying group when Jean left. Mary is an underrated talent. She had the goods to succeed but never caught the breaks. I think even at this point she doesn't need to use the name. People know who Mary is, especially around the business. She could probably book quality gigs by picking up the phone and calling around her damn self. Lol Mary has always been a social butterfly.

[RanRan79]

Looking back, it seems like one of Mary's biggest problems was that she didn't want to take risks. Even going back to the Flo and Diana days. Mary is said to have often kept her mouth closed because she didn't want to rock the boat. Imagine how different the Supremes' story could have played out if Mary had decided to be as vocal as Flo about the bullshit going on. Gordy could get away with replacing one member of the group. Not even he was dumb enough to believe he could get rid of them both. Someone else mentioned here that Mary may have played it safe even with the group's image in the 70s while Jean and Lynda might have been thinking in a new direction. It's sad that a woman so young would not have decided to step out on faith and see where the wind took her. I may be in the minority around here but I will always believe Mary Wilson is one of the talented ones who had the goods to deliver something great if given the chance. I realize often she wasn't given the chance, but it also appears she didn't often take the chance either.

[midnightman]

I agree with RanRan...

[sup_fan]

mary could have had the chance to truly lead the Supremes when Diana left. or she could have done something like the 50/50 split as she did with Scherrie. it was a time when the group was doing a complete revamp. to emerge as a multi-lead ensemble would have been accepted by the public. And frankly Gordy really probably didn't give a shit one way or the other. I think he [[and all of us probably agree) that had mary tried to take over the entire lead position, the group would not have lasted as long as it did. Jean was a natural talent and added a fresh new sound to the group. And they did a nice job of reinventing their sound and approach - certainly M and C were far more featured. But they could have done even more. as ran said, by the mid 70s there really wasn't much collateral value to the group name other than their glorious history.

I think they could have expanded their concert approach and image. Sure when they did Vegas they could use their cabaret act. But for more of the tv and other stage appearances, they could have evolved more into something more contemporary. Less of the giggling school girls. I remember hearing an interview [[I think was on the Mike Douglas show, or maybe Merv) where the host comments on their having sold 50+ million records and mary said she wasn't sure of the exact amount. He said something like If I had sold that many I'd be counting them every day. Mary said they go shopping every day - not a very intelligent answer.

[RanRan79]

I've always wondered if the decision to include "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You" during the DRATS period in the live show and even on television was Gordy's way of testing the waters for how the group would either sound, look or how the public would respond with Mary as lead. I agree that Mary as total lead doesn't work, not when Diana left. The number one reason being Mary's own admission that she wasn't ready. Let's be real, anyone stepping into Diana's shoes was going to have to bring their A game. Jean did that because Jean was confident in her vocal skills. Mary has admitted that she often wasn't as confident, and I believe it shows in her approach to "Can't Take" at the time. I think the early 70s were good training for Mary as a lead singer. Her vocal on "Can't Take" from the Japan live album in 73 may be Mary's finest live vocal IMO during her Supremes years. She sounds confident and doing things with her voice I don't think we had yet heard from her. The audience reaction suggests they too were very pleased with what they heard. I think either leaving the label with Jean and Lynda or going solo when Jean and Lynda left, in 1973 Mary was in a good place to get it started. She looked great, sounded great, the keys were there, she just couldn't find the car. Lol

[blackguy69]

mary could have had the chance to truly lead the Supremes when Diana left. or she could have done something like the 50/50 split as she did with Scherrie. it was a time when the group was doing a complete revamp. to emerge as a multi-lead ensemble would have been accepted by the public. And frankly Gordy really probably didn't give a shit one way or the other. I think he [[and all of us probably agree) that had mary tried to take over the entire lead position, the group would not have lasted as long as it did. Jean was a natural talent and added a fresh new sound to the group. And they did a nice job of reinventing their sound and approach - certainly M and C were far more featured. But they could have done even more. as ran said, by the mid 70s there really wasn't much collateral value to the group name other than their glorious history.

I think they could have expanded their concert approach and image. Sure when they did Vegas they could use their cabaret act. But for more of the tv and other stage appearances, they could have evolved more into something more contemporary. Less of the giggling school girls. I remember hearing an interview [[I think was on the Mike Douglas show, or maybe Merv) where the host comments on their having sold 50+ million records and mary said she wasn't sure of the exact amount. He said something like If I had sold that many I'd be counting them every day. Mary said they go shopping every day - not a very intelligent answer.

That was on marv right after up the ladder came out

[rod_rick]

Yeah, but Mary only uses the name Supremes because she has been unsuccessful at carving out a career separate and apart from the name. Had Mary left Motown and been successful as a group or as a solo, she would not have to bill herself as Mary Wilson of the Supremes. With hindsight it was a good idea that she stuck it out because we know how the story eventually played out. But in my mind there was an alternate story here, one where Mary Wilson doesn't need the name Supremes to sell herself. She wasted years in the Supremes. It was a dying group when Jean left. Mary is an underrated talent. She had the goods to succeed but never caught the breaks. I think even at this point she doesn't need to use the name. People know who Mary is, especially around the business. She could probably book quality gigs by picking up the phone and calling around her damn self. Lol Mary has always been a social butterfly.

I think Mary's confidence as a lead vocalist was shot by 1970. She should have eased her back into the forefront by taking on a few more leads instead of a few lines here and there and her solo Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You. I always felt sh had the goods but didn't capitalize on them until it was a bit too late.
As for her not leaving Motown and the Supreme name I think that would have cost Mary being in charge of the group with Lynda and Jean having more of a say how things would be run. You have to admit the name Supreme has served them all well, Diana included.
It's also ironic how Jean and Lynda wanted to give up the name in the 70's came back to use it in the 80's, just saying.

[sup_fan]

Mary's statement that there's a significant difference between being a lead singer and singing lead is very appropriate. by no means am I saying mary isn't talented or a great singer. I think she is both. but to be "mistress of ceremonies" is a very different responsibility.

[TheMotownManiac]

It was Motown who removed Frank Wilson from producing The Supremes.

Typically at Motown, when a producer got a hit on an act, that producer would continue working exclusively with that act until the hits stopped. That is how Smokey lost the Temptations to Norman Whitfield. It's also how Whitfield lost The Temptations in 1974. The hits dried up.

It was obvious to Ewart Abner and company that the failure of the Touch lp and single meant that a new producer was needed on The Supremes. Smokey was no longer touring with the Miracles and preferred working with the female artists at Motown. The Marvelettes split up earlier in 1971, so Suzanne dePasse asked Smokey to try something on The Supremes while other producers, including Clay McMurray, Ashford & Simpson and Bobby Taylor did productions on the Supremes. This was the foundation for the material that could have been used for the Promises Kept lp.

Floy Joy was a big enough hit record for the ladies to maintain their performance fee. The Floy Joy album sold better than the last two Frank Wilson lps and all of the Four Tops duet albums. Logically, another Smokey album would have been the wiser decision. But the groups' manager Wayne Weisbart got Jimmy Webb interested in doing an lp on the ladies. They embraced the idea because, Jean especially, wanted to do more serious music. And this was the rope they used to hang themselves.

The Jimmy Webb lp came out at the same time as Lady Sings. Everything was riding on Diana's movie so all promotion was given to her. Gordy could have lost Motown if that movie bombed. He was not interested in a new sound for The Supremes. Around this time his established artists like the 4 Tops, Gladys & The Pips, Ashford & Simpson and The Spinners vacated Motown. They could see the trend and knew they were on board a musical Titanic. In hind site, Jean was probably right that the group sign with ABC, change the name to something recognizable like Supreme Ladies. They'd have had a fighting chance.

Floy Joy was not enough to sustain their performance fees. By the time it had fallen off the chart, The Supremes had slipped enough to lose Vegas, open for the starting to slip Temptations and play rooms that seat 300-400. At more popular prices. They were not able just to get a tour of one nighters as headliners anymore. It’s sad.

i also do not believe that Lady promotion had any effect on Jimmy Webb. There wasn’t even a single for almost 3 months and having the #1 movie in the country for 5 weeks is promotion enough. It’s not like the soundtrack was getting radio play. What promotion went out on it? The album climbed to number one as more and more people saw it. It didn’t hit number one until after The Oscars. I seriously doubt Jimmy Webb was sacrificed to sell the soundtrack. Personally, I like the Webb album, but it had no commercial appeal and the cover is the worst in history. Jean does some terrific work, but to what end? The only track that had a chance was Tossin and Turning .......and even that needed some work.

Im thrilled with your Thom Bell info - what a killer idea - any info on why it didn’t happen? Clearly Berry was interested in the group if he was taking meetings with producers for them. There goes that theory of him wanting the group to fail.

[midnightman]

By '74, the Supremes were headlining at Disneyland...

Definitely a fall from grace. And it could've been avoided. And then hiring Pedro made things worse. :/

Like mentioned, Berry did try to bring back renewed interest to the Supremes but the public really had moved on... a shame considering all the talent they had, they could've really shined brighter than they did in the '70s.

[TheMotownManiac]

We're talking about the Supremes. It was different for Florence because she wasn't allowed to use her Supremes connection to get the promo [[the fact that her solo material was unfocused and badly produced was another reason Flo never really got her shine post-Supremes).

The Four Tops managed to score hits because they were big enough to still get ahead. I think it has to do with how business savvy you are and the Four Tops were the oldest Motown group in terms of age [[all of them were doggone near 40 when they signed with ABC in 1972 while two of the Supremes post DR were just 28).

And I don't think Mary was thinking of the future at the time or how to make sure they manage to leave the label with their name intact [[Motown never owned the Four Tops' name and Otis & Melvin were able to retain usage of the Temptations name before they left for Atlantic in 1977).

And like BMM just said, the Supremes were already legends by 1973. They could've found a way [[at least Mary anyway since she was the only original remaining at that point) to get back ownership of the name and move on with a label and get renewed push like the Tops did [[their last Motown recordings were duds but they revived themselves after the ABC move).

There is no way that Barry Gordy was ever going to allow the name of the Supremes to be used outside of the company…….There’s nothing that Mary could have done and Lord knows she tried as hard as any human could possibly try.

[TheMotownManiac]

By '74, the Supremes were headlining at Disneyland...

Definitely a fall from grace. And it could've been avoided. And then hiring Pedro made things worse. :/

Like mentioned, Berry did try to bring back renewed interest to the Supremes but the public really had moved on... a shame considering all the talent they had, they could've really shined brighter than they did in the '70s.

I never believe that A name is Dead until people stop trying. Certainly it is true that the public and move Don and really had no interest in this group of strangers that was once the Supremes, however, the right music would’ve made all the difference in the world. No one knew who Labelle was, no one knew who Honeycone wise, no one knew who Freda Payne was until they had music to put them on The map. The very same could be said for the Supremes. Had they been given don’t leave me this way, It would’ve hit just as big as it did with Thelma Houston, and the story of the Supremes might be a lot different. Tina turner went 10 years between hits and went on to become the biggest thing in the world… It all has to do with the music and star quality. It’s true That the 70s Supremes lacked star quality, But Jean was developing and had someone worked with Scherrie and the group… A couple hip stylists and a manager that knew what he was doing without an agenda to push mary forward, they could’ve built don’t leave me this way into a future. I think that’s why berry Gordy never gave up on them.

[sup_fan]

I would love to see what the supremes annual marketing and promotional budgets were starting in the DRATS era and continuing into the 70s. Motown was a company and so there was a set allocation of the overall annual budget towards promotion, marketing and so forth. I wonder if the % allocated to the girls started to decline due to 1) diminishing sales and 2) Lady sings the blues.

if you look at their early 70s work, there was definitely more money being spent on the lps themselves - Right On had a tear-away poster, New Ways had intricate die-cuts and a gatefold cover, Mag 7 had a gatefold, Touch had an entire promotional interview version of the LP released to DJ's.

I remember years ago seeing a press kit for the MJL lineup on ebay. it was that moth-image release, around the time of Jimmy Webb. unfortunately it ended up going for hundreds of $ and I bailed once I couldn't afford it any more. so someone else won. but it included the press releases and a variety of PR and marketing materials.

So in the 70s, what was the promotion dept doing for the girls?

-did they issue materials to major record stores and chains with promotional window packages, posters, displays, etc?

-Did the girls regularly perform and do promo work at the major radio and dj conventions around the US?

-did they did as many on-air radio interviews and promo work at the radio stations?

-why would they release a single in early July when there was limited tv exposure? they would have taped Sonny and Cher and Flip around then but the air dates were months later. releases should have been better timed with ability to promote live on tv

[RanRan79]

Sup fan you have very valid questions. I'd love for folks who were around then to provide some answers.

[gman]

When Jean arrived, the most recognizable gowns were only 2 years old...true, perhaps
in the Scherrie era it may have been time retire them, but the die hard fans loved the glitz. Bad Weather and the Webb LP see to be the "Fish" in the groups discography...you either love it or hate it.

It was obvious that with Cindy's return...a very recognizable face back in the line up, and Scherrie's inclusion....which brought a new updated sound and energy, the group was primed for a new audience and return to the charts. It was WAY TOO LONG without new product available in the stores to quickly achieve this. The audience that should have been pulled in by Scherrie's TV debut on the very popular Sonny & Cher Show and enticed by the very noticeable change [[including a rare, "new group" image boosting 3 way split lead vocal) had nothing to buy and support the group for 2 years.

"I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" should have been issued in a 12" extended format....great song, right time, strong market. Like "Stoned Love" the 7" started
with a sloppy, what sounded like needle drop. "High Energy" should have been released as a single once "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" started to drop. Having the LP's title track become more familiar to the pubic would have pumped up the sales for what was the groups best and most up to date sounding & marketable album in years.

[Thornton]

When Jean arrived, the most recognizable gowns were only 2 years old...true, perhaps
in the Scherrie era it may have been time retire them, but the die hard fans loved the glitz. Bad Weather and the Webb LP see to be the "Fish" in the groups discography...you either love it or hate it.

It was obvious that with Cindy's return...a very recognizable face back in the line up, and Scherrie's inclusion....which brought a new updated sound and energy, the group was primed for a new audience and return to the charts. It was WAY TOO LONG without new product available in the stores to quickly achieve this. The audience that should have been pulled in by Scherrie's TV debut on the very popular Sonny & Cher Show and enticed by the very noticeable change [[including a rare, "new group" image boosting 3 way split lead vocal) had nothing to buy and support the group for 2 years.

"I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" should have been issued in a 12" extended format....great song, right time, strong market. Like "Stoned Love" the 7" started
with a sloppy, what sounded like needle drop. "High Energy" should have been released as a single once "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" started to drop. Having the LP's title track become more familiar to the pubic would have pumped up the sales for what was the groups best and most up to date sounding & marketable album in years.

All good points. I like all the material JML produced, but it is controversial. They could have had a sweet live act [[I have my own dream set list), and included familiar cover songs by performing material from the Jimmy Webb album beyond just "Tossin' & Turnin'". I think it's also fair to consider what the personal lives of each member might have been like. We certainly know about Mary, who I think was trying to make the best decisions, even though the old songs and gowns were pretty cringe worthy.

As far as MSC, I think even if they could have gotten "It's All Been Said Before" out as a single in late 1974 that could have helped them. Put "The Shoop, Shoop Song" on the B-Side and you have two songs they could perform on television. As always, easy for me to say now all these years later not being in the thick of it.

[gman]

As a pre LP single in '74 it may have worked...and maybe push You Turn Me Around to AC stations...I think He's My Man was the best bet for pushing the LP...and Color My World Blue & Shoop would have worked well as singles.

[marv2]

As a pre LP single in '74 it may have worked...and maybe push You Turn Me Around to AC stations...I think He's My Man was the best bet for pushing the LP...and Color My World Blue & Shoop would have worked well as singles.

I like all of those songs too.

[bradsupremes]

As far as MSC, I think even if they could have gotten "It's All Been Said Before" out as a single in late 1974 that could have helped them. Put "The Shoop, Shoop Song" on the B-Side and you have two songs they could perform on television. As always, easy for me to say now all these years later not being in the thick of it.

I never understood the draw of "It's All Been Said Before." It's a good song, but it doesn't grab you. I always thought "The Sha-La Bandit" would have made a great single. I'm rather surprised it didn't get released on the Supremes '75 LP.

[gman]

That entire Lp sounded a lot fresher in the Spring of '75 than it does today...but much of what was out then also sounds aged...IABSB had a hook, and the strings coupled with the beat and Scherrie's belty vocal [[one of her beltiest I think) make it have at the time cross appeal.

[sup_fan]

there was more than enough material with the SMC lineup to do a couple of albums. They could have quickly done an album with It's All been Said, Shoop and the Ivey sessions [[Color my world, you can't stop a girl, etc). it would have been a solid pop album and I think very contemporary. Push that out in late 74 and do It's all been said as lead single and then Color as the follow up. Then in fall 75 do a disco album around the HDH tracks, He's My Man and the others.

[marv2]

I never understood the draw of "It's All Been Said Before." It's a good song, but it doesn't grab you. I always thought "The Sha-La Bandit" would have made a great single. I'm rather surprised it didn't get released on the Supremes '75 LP.

This would have been a perfect release as a single in say 1974:

[marv2]

That entire Lp sounded a lot fresher in the Spring of '75 than it does today...but much of what was out then also sounds aged...IABSB had a hook, and the strings coupled with the beat and Scherrie's belty vocal [[one of her beltiest I think) make it have at the time cross appeal.

I did not care for "It's All Been Said Before" as much as I did "He's My Man" and "Color My World Blue". It just seem to march and march forward with zero changes and a non memorable chorus/hook or whatever you call it.

[Boogiedown]

"I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" should have been issued in a 12" extended format....great song, right time, strong market. Like "Stoned Love" the 7" started
with a sloppy, what sounded like needle drop. "High Energy" should have been released as a single once "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" started to drop. Having the LP's title track become more familiar to the pubic would have pumped up the sales for what was the groups best and most up to date sounding & marketable album in years.

Yep! A 12" with a longer version would have gone a long ways into making this a hotter club property. Overall Motown was sorely lacking at fully utilizing their disco product and working the disco market . That's a shame because they produced some of the best. I don't know if they ever even had a disco dept. within their organization ?

[Boogiedown]

A big problem with BAD WEATHER is its internal conflict of concept. It makes no sense for the girls to be vocally upbeat , shimmering and half-stepping, and smiling ear to ear as Jean sings like a well-fed canary lyrics that are lamenting a flailing relationship with a doubtful future --- to a dance beat .

[Bluebrock]

I never understood the draw of "It's All Been Said Before." It's a good song, but it doesn't grab you. I always thought "The Sha-La Bandit" would have made a great single. I'm rather surprised it didn't get released on the Supremes '75 LP.

I always loved it but thought it was too short. It faded out around 30 seconds before it should have done. It had a great hook and Scherrie was on fire vocally.Both this and "he's my man" had the potential to be major hit singles. When HMM flopped in both the usa and uk i knew it was all over for the Supremes.

[Bluebrock]

This would have been a perfect release as a single in say 1974:

A beautiful tune for sure, and my personal favorite on the album.

[Thornton]

I never understood the draw of "It's All Been Said Before." It's a good song, but it doesn't grab you. I always thought "The Sha-La Bandit" would have made a great single. I'm rather surprised it didn't get released on the Supremes '75 LP.

It's not my favorite song either, but since it was one of the first songs MSC recorded together, it could have been put out prior to the '75 LP and "He's My Man". I paired it with "The Shoop, Shoop Song" since I believe both songs had the same producer. Both songs have 60's nostalgia, especially the latter, and that may have worked for the group in the mid-70's. I wasn't around so can't say what would have been popular.

[Thornton]

I always loved it but thought it was too short. It faded out around 30 seconds before it should have done. It had a great hook and Scherrie was on fire vocally.Both this and "he's my man" had the potential to be major hit singles. When HMM flopped in both the usa and uk i knew it was all over for the Supremes.

I overlooked "It's All Been Said Before" as a potential single for many years because it is so short, and the fade is too long. If they ever do a 70's Lost & Found I would love an extended version of the song.

[sup_fan]

another issue is that M and Pedro were determined to have her featured more heavily as the lead. so they wanted something like He's Me Man which showcased her more prominently as the single. Out of her dance leads on Sup 75, I think He's My Man is the strongest [[her ballads were excellent as usual) but I think there should have been more scherrie on the verses. Mary does an ok job but not an amazing job. when scherrie gets going towards the end, she blows it away. But you need something earlier in the piece to really grab listeners' attention. Mary just doesn't really do it. her leads on the verses are just too dull and low key. and this is a dance track - should be setting you on fire.

[marv2]

It's not my favorite song either, but since it was one of the first songs MSC recorded together, it could have been put out prior to the '75 LP and "He's My Man". I paired it with "The Shoop, Shoop Song" since I believe both songs had the same producer. Both songs have 60's nostalgia, especially the latter, and that may have worked for the group in the mid-70's. I wasn't around so can't say what would have been popular.

I was around and it would have been popular. I never could understand why everyone else could get their records recorded, released and radio back in 1974 except the Supremes. Even reading Mary's book about the situation still does not settle it for me.

[marv2]

another issue is that M and Pedro were determined to have her featured more heavily as the lead. so they wanted something like He's Me Man which showcased her more prominently as the single. Out of her dance leads on Sup 75, I think He's My Man is the strongest [[her ballads were excellent as usual) but I think there should have been more scherrie on the verses. Mary does an ok job but not an amazing job. when scherrie gets going towards the end, she blows it away. But you need something earlier in the piece to really grab listeners' attention. Mary just doesn't really do it. her leads on the verses are just too dull and low key. and this is a dance track - should be setting you on fire.

That [[featuring Mary Wilson more) started before she met Pedro Ferrer. Both Mary and Smokey Robinson concluded as far back as 1971 that since it looked like Mary was the only dedicated member, that her voice needed to be featured more for continuity. Most people were hearing Scherrie Payne for the first time once she joined the Supremes and who knew how long she would be there.

[sup_fan]

yeah I remember now hearing that too. but I remember hearing that Motown wasn't as in favor of it. And actually mary had been assuming more leading vocals throughout the 70s. so it wasn't a total surprise that she emerged on Sup 75 with half the leads. she had a 1/3 or more on Floy Joy [[lead on I Keep It Hid, co lead on FJ and AS, shared lead on Bitter/Sweet)

and I liked that she was taking on more. I think it definitely added a great dimension to the group. I just think He's My Man was a weaker song due to poorer lyrics. Not the worst in the Sup catalog but not the best by any means. The backing track is very strong. And this was to be a debut single for the new group. in order to make a mark, they needed everything at 100%. the lyrics are boarderline novelty and Mary's lead just isn't that amazing. maybe scherrie could have done the bulk of the verses and M and C joining in/trading off with some lead parts in the verses and chorus. Some more of Scherrie's firepower might have given it that extra oomph it needed. Of course without real heavy Motown promotion, it would still only gone so far. But they did a ton of tv with it and got quite a bit of buzz. I just think it's too goofy of a song to stage a comeback from

[Jimi LaLumia]

"It's All Been Said.." was the perfect early 70's 'plastic pop' single in the vein of "Love Grows Where My RoseMary Goes", "My Baby Loves Lovin" etc it would have been the "Where Did Our Love Go" for the 3rd incarnation of The Supremes, who top 40 always considered a pop group..stupid move, one of many stupid moves...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyHxGhS9XqA

[daviddh]

i liked the Supremes 75 lp but still cant believe Bend A Little and Can WE Love Again were left off. I like Sha La Bandit as well.....Color My World Blue is a gem.love it