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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    good info Brad! I didn't realize Deke was listed as a producer for World.

    Both World and Forever represent interesting "what if" scenarios. neither charted particularly well. and it seems that (perhaps) neither were really completed by HDH. so we could speculate if these songs, in their current finished format, are really what HDH envisioned. would they have done some thing differently and potentially made them more commercial?

    World seems like it should have been a hit. love that song. the intro is rather abrupt. and perhaps have Reach Out, Standing and Bernadette it's just not quite unique enough. but I think it should have done better

    Forever is a fascinating song but I think not a good single choice. the melody and lyric just aren't as commercial. it doesn't do as well with my "whistle test" lol. hard to hum along and sing and the tune just doesn't stick in your mind like other Sup hits.
    I always thought "Different World" and "Forever Came Today" were very similar songs. They're both in the same style and gave an indication of a possible direction HDH may have been taking the Supremes and Four Tops. Both songs are more complex and have seriousness to them about a profound life-changing love. Much different from their earlier songs like "Baby Love," "You Can't Hurry Love," and "I Can't Help Myself." It's a shame neither song chartered higher on the charts, but I think its due to their complexity and structure. They're weren't simple songs. Regardless, I think they are both beautiful and are some of HDH's best work.
    Last edited by bradsupremes; 03-07-2018 at 06:50 PM.

  2. #102
    i wonder how HDH would have responded to the emergence of the heavier, more rock-influenced sounds of the late 60s. look at what Whitfield jumped into - how would HDH have entered that field?

    not to say that they'd have given the Sups something that strong. but wonder what HDH's "Love Child" could have been?

    aside from LC, most of the Sups late 60s content was still pretty innocuous. there are some attempts to broaden their sound - You Gave me Love, I'm So Glad I Got Somebody, Discover Me.

  3. #103
    I guess it's anyone's guess what sound they could have gone with. Judging by "Reflections," "I'm In A Different World," and "Forever Came Today," my guess the sound they were aiming for would have been a more mature, complex sound. I'm not sure how if it would have worked. As incredible HDH were, they were losing their grip a bit on number one strongholds by mid-1967, but they were able to adapt and no doubt would have changed formulas if needed. Take a listen to Chuck Jackson's "Helpless," one of the last songs HDH produced at Motown. The intro of organ, french horn, oboe, bass, drum, and violin was quite different from previous arrangements of the song and shows their experimenting with orchestral instruments in songs. How many soul songs opened with an oboe and french horn? They used an accordion in "Reflections" too. We don't have anything to judge them by between 1968-late 1969 until the Honey Cone's "While You're Out Looking For Sugar" which was a throwback to their familiar 4-on-the-floor sound. Their Hot Wax/Invictus recordings are definitely what I like to think of as a "neo-Motown" sound although not as adventurous or daring as what they did when they were with Motown.

  4. #104
    My thought: I think that the expanded editions of REFLECTIONS, LET THE SUNSHINE IN, and CREAM OF THE CROP should be combined into one package identical to The Marvelettes two ďForeverĒ compilations. Since those three DRATS albums have so many tracks that cross over the years, there could be both stereo and mono versions plus a disc of unreleased/alternate versions. The booklet would be the perfect place to annotate the legacy of these albums and explain the timeline of the individual tracks and how they came to be included on the various albums. This multi album collection would be an excellent finale to the Diana years.

    Oh, I did not forget LOVE CHILD. Of course, it could well be included in this same multi disc set. However, Iím thinking that it might stand alone as an expanded edition. Of course, no one asked me. :-)

  5. #105
    yeah i had looked at their Invictus material to see if it would have provided any insights as to what could have been at Motown. and frankly, although the stuff is nice, it's not breaking new ground. some songs hit pretty well but nothing made an impact on the overall music scene like their classic Motown stuff. and sometimes people run out of new things. HDH don't really strike me as hard-core r&b producers, like what was emerging in the late 60s and early 70s. they were more on the pop side of things, IMO

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Fullfillingnessfirstfinale View Post
    Exsists a version of "Forever came today" by the real Diana Ross and The Supremes (studio version) ? I know only the live version in the black sparkling dresses on the Ed Sullivan Show by Diana Ross and The Supremes without the Andantes
    The version I had definitely didn't have Flo or Mary or Cindy on backing vocals. In fact I remember HATING the backing vocals. I thought it sounded like crap. (Now to be fair, I haven't heard that version since at least 2005- the last time I remember seeing my cd- and there are quite a few musical opinions I held then that I have since changed my mind about.) How happy I will be if there is an early version in the vaults with Florence and Mary on backing vocals.

  7. #107
    I agree - I hate the bg on that song. If ever a song needed DMF and only DMF, it was that one!

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I guess it's anyone's guess what sound they could have gone with. Judging by "Reflections," "I'm In A Different World," and "Forever Came Today," my guess the sound they were aiming for would have been a more mature, complex sound. I'm not sure how if it would have worked. As incredible HDH were, they were losing their grip a bit on number one strongholds by mid-1967, but they were able to adapt and no doubt would have changed formulas if needed. Take a listen to Chuck Jackson's "Helpless," one of the last songs HDH produced at Motown. The intro of organ, french horn, oboe, bass, drum, and violin was quite different from previous arrangements of the song and shows their experimenting with orchestral instruments in songs. How many soul songs opened with an oboe and french horn? They used an accordion in "Reflections" too. We don't have anything to judge them by between 1968-late 1969 until the Honey Cone's "While You're Out Looking For Sugar" which was a throwback to their familiar 4-on-the-floor sound. Their Hot Wax/Invictus recordings are definitely what I like to think of as a "neo-Motown" sound although not as adventurous or daring as what they did when they were with Motown.
    Freda Payne's Invictus album "Contact" starts off with a medley of "I'm Not Getting Any Better" and "Suddenly It's Yesterday" which structurally takes the style of "I'm In A Different World" and "Forever Came Today" into further extreme levels of complexity. I'm sure this is the direction that HDH would have propelled a solo Diana Ross. In fact "Suddenly It's Yesterday" even has a theme similar to "Reflections".

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac View Post
    I agree - I hate the bg on that song. If ever a song needed DMF and only DMF, it was that one!
    The alternate version or the "famous" version? I was referring to the alternate. In truth, I actually don't mind the background on the single version. In fact I wish the vocals were turned up more.

  10. #110
    No problem with the Andantes being on a song instead of Supremes. They had the best best harmonies. The heavenly harmonies blows others out of the water.

  11. #111
    I too did not like the background vocals on Forever Came Today. What I do not like is the arrangement for the backup vocals, not the gals singing them. The Andantes are great if their vocal arrangement is great.

  12. #112
    I don't deny the fact that the Andantes had great vocal skills. their ability to harmonize is top notch.

    But there's something about their tone that I've never really cared for. it's very clear on Forever, Love Child and many other DRATS recordings. I don't know how to really describe what it is that I don't care for. something about their vowel formation or something. and not sure if it's mostly 1 voice or the blended combination of the three.

    now there are other songs where I find them enjoyable - many of the four tops recordings.

    I think the bg vocals on Diana solos (reach out, mountain and many others) and the four tops Still Water work is much preferred to the Andantes on the DRATS stuff. Perhaps it's the arrangements or keys they're singing in on certain songs. or maybe who's taking the soprano 1 part. I definitely like the Supremes backing vocals after Cindy shifted back to soprano 2 parts. I think her voice is weak on certain DRATS songs (on the few times they used her) as they had her doing the top harmony with Diana in the middle. with the "new Supremes" Jean often took the top harmony which allowed cindy to move to the middle. jean's soprano tones are stronger and fuller than cindy's, which works better for the upper harmonies.

  13. #113
    I do not like the backup arrangement for I's Livin' in Pure Shame. It would have been a bigger hit with a less shrill backup vocal.

  14. #114
    I think Cindy with her airy soprano adds a great element to Iím Gonna Make you love me, with the Tempts

  15. #115
    I can’t understand one word of what the bg on Forever is except when copying the lead. I think the mix is too gospelish- the voices seem heavy, I would have preferred the clean, clear sound of Mary and Flo. Although they i’m Not nuts about the bg on Reflections either. It’s all TOO gospelish for me on these songs. I want to hear what they are singing - not discuss for literally 50 years what it might be. I love The A’s on many songs - not these. They are perfect on Love Child. Actually, I also love The Blackberries On No Matter What Sign You Are and on TMITM tracks. In most cases, I do not care for the sound of Mary & Cindy alone on record. Flo’s clear, crisp soprano pierced and livened Mary’s rich, lush alto. Cindy, to me, sounds hushed and weak and dullifies Mary’s sound. Hey, I made up a word! I think. Dullify?
    Last edited by TheMotownManiac; 03-09-2018 at 05:26 PM.

  16. #116
    Ahhh like the riddle of the sphinx!! what are the bg to Forever Came Today! lol

    there's been several posts on here and I think this was the most accurate:

    "Ahhhhh, Got My Man At Last, My My MY My Loneliness Has Passed..."

  17. #117
    I definitely agree. The background vocals on a lot of songs that are way too low. Like on LOVING YOU IS BETTER THAN EVER.

  18. #118
    Come on Universal we are ready for a release date :-)

  19. #119
    exactly Universal....they cant even give us a release date

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by aarondillon2011@gmail.com View Post
    Come on Universal we are ready for a release date :-)
    I am sure they will do so just as soon as they are able to, and i am sure it will be well worth the wait.

  21. #121
    I see this on Facebook:



    Patrick Ibens HDH was going to get released eary 2018. We're almost half way through 2018 and still no news....
    Manage

    Like
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    ∑ Reply ∑ 2h

    View 2 more replies

    Andy Skurow It’s been finished since January. I have no idea.

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    I see this on Facebook: Patrick Ibens HDH was going to get released eary 2018. We're almost half way through 2018 and still no news....
    When did the year get to be 5 months long? We're only in the middle of the third of 12 months - so not even a third of the way through the year yet.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by thommg View Post
    When did the year get to be 5 months long? We're only in the middle of the third of 12 months - so not even a third of the way through the year yet.
    Agreed. I don't think we need to start panicking just yet. I am as anxious as anyone to get my hands on this, but we do not know what is going on behind the scenes so we will have to exercise patience for what will hopefully be for just a little longer.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Agreed. I don't think we need to start panicking just yet. I am as anxious as anyone to get my hands on this, but we do not know what is going on behind the scenes so we will have to exercise patience for what will hopefully be for just a little longer.
    Exactly. We know from the previous releases that Andy and George have little to no say over Universal's release schedule. Its only March so let's give them so more time to work their magic. Maybe if sales of A Go Go were strong, this might get green lighted sooner. Any data on how it sold?

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by thommg View Post
    When did the year get to be 5 months long? We're only in the middle of the third of 12 months - so not even a third of the way through the year yet.
    I think the smiley after "we're almost half way through" is meant to convey the joking matter of the statement. Clearly we're not almost halfway through, but to folks so eagerly awaiting the release, it might feel that way.

  26. #126
    Last post here was March 15. Today is April 15. Thought it was time to bump this back up again.

    Any news? .........

  27. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by zani57 View Post
    Last post here was March 15. Today is April 15. Thought it was time to bump this back up again.

    Any news? .........
    Guess we'll meet back in another month. Lol

  28. #128
    Lol Hey, it hasn't even been a year since Supremes A Go Go expanded. Patience, patience.

  29. #129
    As of today, Amazon is now selling "Sing HDH: Expanded" for $20.19 and is still showing a US release date of Friday, June 29, 2018. If it gets more pre-orders, I wonder if it will go below $20 before release day?

  30. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    As of today, Amazon is now selling "Sing HDH: Expanded" for $20.19 and is still showing a US release date of Friday, June 29, 2018. If it gets more pre-orders, I wonder if it will go below $20 before release day?
    A Go Go dropped lower as more people pre-ordered. I'm pretty sure it'll be worth the $20 bucks so I'm happy with that price! I just wait, impatiently, for the release date. I hope I have it on the 29th as I fly out to Texas for a visit on the 30th. I'd love to have this in my ears as I cross the US!

  31. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    As of today, Amazon is now selling "Sing HDH: Expanded" for $20.19 and is still showing a US release date of Friday, June 29, 2018. If it gets more pre-orders, I wonder if it will go below $20 before release day?
    I just looked today and Amazon US has it listed for $24.99. One cent lower than the $25.00 to get free shipping. They sure are smart! LOL

  32. #132
    Two days ago I posted that Amazon U.S. had the 2-CD set for $20.19 pre-order on June 29. It must have been a glitch because it's back at $24.00.

  33. #133
    My Amazon has it at $20.19 in 6/16/18.

  34. #134
    The iTunes version is missing the I Can't Help Myself / Where Did Our Love Go [Motown Mashup].

  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by thanxal View Post
    My Amazon has it at $20.19 in 6/16/18.
    And that's what I saw a couple of days ago. Strange. Makes me want to wait until I see it at Zia's.

  36. #136
    Oldies.com is listing it at $24.19.

  37. #137
    I ordered using Prime and ordered as soon as it was available. Maybe if your order is further down the queue you get less of a discount ??? (My 2 are still at $20.19). How Amazon prices is always a mystery to me.

  38. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Two days ago I posted that Amazon U.S. had the 2-CD set for $20.19 pre-order on June 29. It must have been a glitch because it's back at $24.00.
    If you do a search for the CD on Amazon, the price is $24.99. However, if you pre-ordered the CD, you need to look in your order list to see what your price will be. Amazon has a lowest price guarantee. If the price goes down during the pre-order period, your price goes down. If it goes back up, your price stays at the lower price. When I look in my order list, my price is still at $20.19.

  39. #139
    $20.19 is a steal when you think about what you're getting.....

  40. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by thommg View Post
    If you do a search for the CD on Amazon, the price is $24.99. However, if you pre-ordered the CD, you need to look in your order list to see what your price will be. Amazon has a lowest price guarantee. If the price goes down during the pre-order period, your price goes down. If it goes back up, your price stays at the lower price. When I look in my order list, my price is still at $20.19.
    I screwed up. I put it in my basket but failed to actually pre-order it. Oh well, i'm still going to buy it. I was going to buy the Guns & Roses deluxe set too, but I think i'll just get this one.

  41. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    I was going to buy the Guns & Roses deluxe set too, but I think i'll just get this one.
    You must have put that in your basket by mistake soulster...

  42. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    You must have put that in your basket by mistake soulster...
    I have the original G&R CD already. I really don't want to buy it again. Besides, it will likely sound worse than the original CD.

    "The Supremes Sing H-D-H", on the other hand, will sound much better than what's out there already. It will also include the mono version of the album, which is what I really want, plus the bonus tracks.

  43. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    I have the original G&R CD already. I really don't want to buy it again. Besides, it will likely sound worse than the original CD.

    "The Supremes Sing H-D-H", on the other hand, will sound much better than what's out there already. It will also include the mono version of the album, which is what I really want, plus the bonus tracks.
    Oh soulster I really have to disagree with you now! MONO!? How could you? Whenever I buy an expanded edition with mono mixes, I don't even import them onto my iPod.

  44. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    Oh soulster I really have to disagree with you now! MONO!? How could you?
    Damn right! You must remember that it is the MONO mixes that were released as the singles. The singles were the hits, the ones that got played on the radio and sold in the stores. They are the mixes that people fell in love with back in 60s and early 70s.

    Mono isn't just a matter of the same sound in one or two speakers, the balance of the elements in the mix are different. The drums are stronger, the bass is clean and solid, the vocals, and everything else has less echo and is defined with a solid image. The ratio of the vocals to instruments is balanced. Sometimes, there are slightly different edits, or elements that are included or excluded. And, for an even more technical reason, with mono, you don't have any phase issues.

    If there weren't such substantial differences, the reissue producers wouldn't bother including them, especially as the first version to add to the set. Companies wouldn't bother to re-release mono singles CDs /boxes. Universal would not have spent time and money to reissue the first Hitsville boxed set, or that massive singles collection with every mono single from the beginning of the company to 1972. It's not just Motown. Stax released not two, but three massive singles boxes, two of which are comprised of mono singles!

    Artists who have had mono reissues of their singles and/or albums reads as a who's who:

    The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Sam & Dave, The Grass Roots, Diana Ross & The Supremes, Martha & The Vandellas, Clarence Carter, Aretha Franklin, Paul Revere & The Raiders, The Turtles, Steppenwolf, The Mamas and the Papas, The Temptations, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Wilson Pickett, Jr. Walker & The All-Stars, Dionne Warwick, Smokey Robinson & The Miracles, The Marvelettes, Roy Orbison, Bob Dylan, The Dave Clark Five, James Brown, and many more I can't even think of at the moment.

  45. #145
    Beautifully put! MONO is an art form in its own right!

    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Damn right! You must remember that it is the MONO mixes that were released as the singles. The singles were the hits, the ones that got played on the radio and sold in the stores. They are the mixes that people fell in love with back in 60s and early 70s.

    Mono isn't just a matter of the same sound in one or two speakers, the balance of the elements in the mix are different. The drums are stronger, the bass is clean and solid, the vocals, and everything else has less echo and is defined with a solid image. The ratio of the vocals to instruments is balanced. Sometimes, there are slightly different edits, or elements that are included or excluded. And, for an even more technical reason, with mono, you don't have any phase issues.

    If there weren't such substantial differences, the reissue producers wouldn't bother including them, especially as the first version to add to the set. Companies wouldn't bother to re-release mono singles CDs /boxes. Universal would not have spent time and money to reissue the first Hitsville boxed set, or that massive singles collection with every mono single from the beginning of the company to 1972. It's not just Motown. Stax released not two, but three massive singles boxes, two of which are comprised of mono singles!

    Artists who have had mono reissues of their singles and/or albums reads as a who's who:

    The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Sam & Dave, The Grass Roots, Diana Ross & The Supremes, Martha & The Vandellas, Clarence Carter, Aretha Franklin, Paul Revere & The Raiders, The Turtles, Steppenwolf, The Mamas and the Papas, The Temptations, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Wilson Pickett, Jr. Walker & The All-Stars, Dionne Warwick, Smokey Robinson & The Miracles, The Marvelettes, Roy Orbison, Bob Dylan, The Dave Clark Five, James Brown, and many more I can't even think of at the moment.

  46. #146
    I still have my Phil Spector "Back To Mono" badge somewhere.

  47. #147
    Has anyone found any streaming samples for Supremes HDH Expanded yet? Only "The Happening" on iTunes and nothing on Amazon.

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