Mary on "The Christmas Song" Duet

**thanxal** · 11-04-2017, 11:06 AM

I am stunned at Mary's performance on the new "The Christmas Song" duet. Her voice is bright and crisp and not at all the "smoky sensual" voice from other mid/late 60s recordings.

I am delighted with the new Ultimate Merry Christmas set. Even if you bought the download only Expanded Edition last year, I can tell you this set is completely worth it. Disc 2 is a gem!

**marv2** · 11-04-2017, 11:28 AM

I am confused. I heard people say that Mary and Florence were not a part of the Christmas album sessions. Would you know when this was recorded? I know Florence's songs were recorded in 1965.

**thanxal** · 11-04-2017, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

I am confused. I heard people say that Mary and Florence were not a part of the Christmas album sessions. Would you know when this was recorded? I know Florence's songs were recorded in 1965.

The booklet says

Track cut in Los Angeles, exact date unknown; tape wind date listed as august 26-27, 1965, exact lead and background dates unknown.

Also it was only "one take".

**bradsupremes** · 11-04-2017, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

I am confused. I heard people say that Mary and Florence were not a part of the Christmas album sessions. Would you know when this was recorded? I know Florence's songs were recorded in 1965.

The track annotations don’t list an exact date for when Mary and Diana recorded their leads on this song. Diana was putting her vocals on these sessions in early-mid September 1965. Flo’s vocals for “O Holy Night” and “Silent Night” were done on September 9th. I would think Mary did her lead around this timeframe.

**marv2** · 11-04-2017, 12:16 PM

So, what Mary has said all these years is correct. She said that both she and Florence recorded for the "Merry Christmas" album with Harvey Fuqua. Did he produce the entire album I now wonder?

**marv2** · 11-04-2017, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by thanxal

The booklet says Also it was only "one take".

One other thing. If these Christmas songs were recorded in LA, why would the Andantes be on them as some have suggested?

**marv2** · 11-04-2017, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

The track annotations don’t list an exact date for when Mary and Diana recorded their leads on this song. Diana was putting her vocals on these sessions in early-mid September 1965. Flo’s vocals for “O Holy Night” and “Silent Night” were done on September 9th. I would think Mary did her lead around this timeframe.

Thank you Brad.

**bradsupremes** · 11-04-2017, 12:47 PM

The instrumental tracks were cut in LA. Vocals were recorded in Detroit. It was pretty common for specialty albums/tracks to be done in LA or New York and then have those tracks flown to Detroit where the artists could lay down their vocals in Detroit in-between touring, etc. I think it was easier that way. Aside from Brenda tracks and a few others which were done all in LA, it was usually tracks in LA and vocals in Detroit.

**marv2** · 11-04-2017, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

The instrumental tracks were cut in LA. Vocals were recorded in Detroit. It was pretty common for specialty albums/tracks to be done in LA or New York and then have those tracks flown to Detroit where the artists could lay down their vocals in Detroit in-between touring, etc. I think it was easier that way. Aside from Brenda tracks and a few others which were done all in LA, it was usually tracks in LA and vocals in Detroit.

That make sense. I know the Detroit Symphony provided most of the string segments in Detroit at various studios.

**sup_fan** · 11-04-2017, 02:00 PM

I quickly read through the book before heading to airport. It talks a bit about the recording schedule. As the story goes Diana recorded her leads while the girls were on vacation. At this time M and F were often recording at least 1 lead each on the specialty sets. but the tracks were often left on the vaults instead of making the final lineup. So it's not surprising that they were brought into the studios to do a track or so. I thought I heard a story that flo loved the song Silent Night and maybe she asked to sing this one. Just guessing

I do agree this is a great lead by Mary. She sounds wonderful.

**daviddh** · 11-04-2017, 02:03 PM

wonder if Mary did any leads on albums like We Remember Sam Cooke

**luke** · 11-04-2017, 02:44 PM

Brenda also cut tracks in Detroit, like when she walked out, quit Motown and returned to LA

**marv2** · 11-04-2017, 02:50 PM

Some people have insisted that Mary Wilson and Florence did not participated in the sessions for the Merry Christmas album. I never believed that.

**sup_fan** · 11-04-2017, 07:25 PM

I think they did not participate in the background vocals. But that wasn't uncommon. There are some on the There's A Place tracks w just andantes in background.

On Sam Cook Mary is spotlighted in Chain Gang. Similar to being spotlighted on You Really Got A Hold On Me on Liverpool.

**gman** · 11-04-2017, 08:44 PM

IMHO...I always loved Mary's voice...I found it sultry. Perhaps a bit limited, but sultry...Once I first saw her live in '86 I realized that even though the voice had improved...thru the Jean years, on through the Scherrie years, what I was hearing live was NOT the voice range that was ever previously recorded. [[closest and best DRATS performance: her spot in "People") .I think it most likely had to do not only with honing her craft and all the live work, but finally having the confidence to sing the way she started to in the 80's. I don't think we were treated to studio work that really showed her growth and capabilities till the Don't Get Mad Get Even & Walk The Line period....Walk The Line had great potential. It's been said that the label filed for bankruptcy in court the very day the CD was released.

**marv2** · 11-04-2017, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by gman

IMHO...I always loved Mary's voice...I found it sultry. Perhaps a bit limited, but sultry...Once I first saw her live in '86 I realized that even though the voice had improved...thru the Jean years, on through the Scherrie years, what I was hearing live was NOT the voice range that was ever previously recorded. [[closest and best DRATS performance: her spot in "People") .I think it most likely had to do not only with honing her craft and all the live work, but finally having the confidence to sing the way she started to in the 80's. I don't think we were treated to studio work that really showed her growth and capabilities till the Don't Get Mad Get Even & Walk The Line period....Walk The Line had great potential. It's been said that the label filed for bankruptcy in court the very day the CD was released.

"Walk the Line" is one of my favorite CD's.

**gman** · 11-05-2017, 02:33 AM

I like the title cut and Under Any Moon the best...One Night With You was a safe bet as a first single...maybe not the best choice but the one people familiar with MW's style would expect. I still think You Danced My Heart could have put her in the big time lime light. if they had doubts about a full LP, they could have released and pushed that heavily as a single to AC /Pop stations and it would have given them more time to come up with suitable material... it may have even after that caught on with RnB and car radio, or even found a later life in a gushy love story movie.

**marv2** · 11-05-2017, 04:43 AM

"Under Any Moon" was also a favorite of mine from that CD. I actually heard Mary sing "One Night With You" four years before it was released on the Walk the Line CD. I also remember her commenting about her music being released on "Capricorn Records" and then on "Gemini Records" before it was finally released on the CEO label.

**sup_fan** · 11-05-2017, 03:38 PM

Her Gus Dungeon work is great. Such a missed opportunity. Green River is IMO the weakest of the four and isn't still a pretty good track. You Danced and Save Me could both been major hits. She could have been an early Tina Turner sound for Motown. Something totally different for the label

**marv2** · 11-05-2017, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

Her Gus Dungeon work is great. Such a missed opportunity. Green River is IMO the weakest of the four and isn't still a pretty good track. You Danced and Save Me could both been major hits. She could have been an early Tina Turner sound for Motown. Something totally different for the label

The songs Janie Bradford wrote, the Atlantic Records demos are some of my favorites from the 80s Mary recorded.

**TheMotownManiac** · 11-05-2017, 06:58 PM

Marv, you never cease to amaze me with your finds - I ve never heard of this nor has Mary ever mentioned it. Just think what she could have accomplished with a top flight producer helping to guide her through A-list material at a label that can mix things properly. I miss the shows where she’d do One Night With You and/or: Walk The Line, Under Any Moon and Oooh Child.

**gman** · 11-06-2017, 02:15 AM

I have that song SAVE ME on a 1977 issue United Artists 12" single by Merilee Rush [[1966 big hit Angel of The Morning) I have a VCR tape of the Black Stage with both MW and Scherrie Payne's appearances. I personally don't like Ooh Child by MW. There are 2 excellent clips of the original by the Five Stairsteps...one of which is a true live performance and it is great.

**RanRan79** · 11-06-2017, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by gman

I have that song SAVE ME on a 1977 issue United Artists 12" single by Merilee Rush [[1966 big hit Angel of The Morning) I have a VCR tape of the Black Stage with both MW and Scherrie Payne's appearances. I personally don't like Ooh Child by MW. There are 2 excellent clips of the original by the Five Stairsteps...one of which is a true live performance and it is great.

"Ooh Child"...horrible arrangement, horrible version. But I think if Mary had done the song in the 70s she would've knocked it out of the park. Even this version would have been nice if it had an arrangement closer to the original and Mary approached it that way.

The Gus Dudgeon sessions...I'd bet money that this would have been Mary's ticket out of the shadow of the Supremes and Diana Ross. This was the album that would have really showed the world that Mary had the goods.

The Atlantic sessions...really good stuff. Definitely could've furthered her solo musical legacy. My favorite is "Sleeping In Separate Rooms".

**marv2** · 11-06-2017, 05:41 PM

I loved "Ooh Child" [[the 1989 Version here):

**mistercarter2u** · 11-07-2017, 01:26 PM

I am loving the second disc of "The Ultimate Merry Christmas." Loving it!

As for Mary's voice and her recordings, despite all her critics over the years, Mary could and can sing, and she deserved a better shot at being a recording artist in her own right. She did some very good material, though no one knew what to do with it.... Sad, too.

I wish, how I wish, that someone would [[1) re-issue her Motown and CEO albums with plenty of bonus tracks, including the ones mentioned in the thread above and others, and [[2) that she would find a way - or that whomever owns the material would find a way - to put out her "Life's Been Good To Me" album.

**Circa 1824** · 11-07-2017, 08:30 PM

Hundreds of millions of people can "sing," whatever the hell that means. This past week I was invited to attend a Master Class at a top US university. Ten students sang, and all could "sing." They hit the notes. But, not one of them had an ounce of star potential or a voice anyone would want to hear again.

Very very very very very very very very few have the voice the public will fall in love with and want to listen to. Wilson wasn't and isn't one of them.

**Roberta75** · 11-07-2017, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Circa 1824

Hundreds of millions of people can "sing," whatever the hell that means. This past week I was invited to attend a Master Class at a top US university. Ten students sang, and all could "sing." They hit the notes. But, not one of them had an ounce of star potential or a voice anyone would want to hear again.

Very very very very very very very very few have the voice the public will fall in love with and want to listen to. Wilson wasn't and isn't one of them.

You seem to dislike Mary Wilson a lot. Wouldnt it be better to just ignore Miss Wilson rather than diss her. I have little love or respect for Gladys Knight but youll never find me trashing Miss Knight on this forum or anywhere else. The high road is real stress free and silence can be Golden imo.

Fondly,

Roberta

**thanxal** · 11-08-2017, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

You seem to dislike Mary Wilson a lot. Wouldnt it be better to just ignore Miss Wilson rather than diss her. I have little love or respect for Gladys Knight but youll never find me trashing Miss Knight on this forum or anywhere else. The high road is real stress free and silence can be Golden imo.

Fondly,

Roberta

Just another troll Roberta.

**mistercarter2u** · 11-08-2017, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Circa 1824

Hundreds of millions of people can "sing," whatever the hell that means. This past week I was invited to attend a Master Class at a top US university. Ten students sang, and all could "sing." They hit the notes. But, not one of them had an ounce of star potential or a voice anyone would want to hear again.

Very very very very very very very very few have the voice the public will fall in love with and want to listen to. Wilson wasn't and isn't one of them.

You don't have to be so nasty...

**motownlover1964** · 11-08-2017, 11:09 AM

After being on this board for 10-12 years I must admit back in the beginning I used to respond to what I thought were cruel posts; however, that didn't stop any of them from posting. But, what I have done since is not respond at all. They won't go away but feel the need to denigrate Diana / Mary / Flo / etc. And, at times I wanted to respond to the negativity but that only reinforces it. Folks, no need to respond or defend as you're doing just what they want -- a reaction. Just continue to enjoy what Diana, Mary and Flo and subsequent groupings of Supremes gave the world -- a visual treat and fantastic music.

**jobucats** · 11-08-2017, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by motownlover1964

After being on this board for 10-12 years I must admit back in the beginning I used to respond to what I thought were cruel posts; however, that didn't stop any of them from posting. But, what I have done since is not respond at all. They won't go away but feel the need to denigrate Diana / Mary / Flo / etc. And, at times I wanted to respond to the negativity but that only reinforces it. Folks, no need to respond or defend as you're doing just what they want -- a reaction. Just continue to enjoy what Diana, Mary and Flo and subsequent groupings of Supremes gave the world -- a visual treat and fantastic music.

It is indeed difficult not to respond to those senior members who continue to put down any of the ladies. My possible explanation, which is not to be considered an excuse, is that there are some psychological issues which result the need to post such negativity. Another possible explanation is that such comments are made to let us know that member is here. It’s like the disruptive kid in class who sadly is disruptive to get attention.

We all know whose buttons are going to be pushed. Those folk will respond and say that they will make only one rebuttal, however, they keep going back and forth.

As I’ve said before, sometimes certain threads become “The Housewives of the Motown Forum.”

**thanxal** · 11-08-2017, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by jobucats

It is indeed difficult not to respond to those senior members who continue to put down any of the ladies. My possible explanation, which is not to be considered an excuse, is that there are some psychological issues which result the need to post such negativity. Another possible explanation is that such comments are made to let us know that member is here. It’s like the disruptive kid in class who sadly is disruptive to get attention.

We all know whose buttons are going to be pushed. Those folk will respond and say that they will make only one rebuttal, however, they keep going back and forth.

As I’ve said before, sometimes certain threads become “The Housewives of the Motown Forum.”

I could not agree with you more. Spot on.

**RanRan79** · 11-08-2017, 12:47 PM

I concur with the previous few posts. I'm making an effort to not engage the obvious attempts to disrupt civility by arguing about the Supremes. If we don't feed the negativity, at some point it will all go away.

**rod_rick** · 12-15-2018, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by thanxal

I am stunned at Mary's performance on the new "The Christmas Song" duet. Her voice is bright and crisp and not at all the "smoky sensual" voice from other mid/late 60s recordings.

I am delighted with the new Ultimate Merry Christmas set. Even if you bought the download only Expanded Edition last year, I can tell you this set is completely worth it. Disc 2 is a gem!

I've never heard this duet. Can someone post it to this thread ? Thanks

**blackguy69** · 12-15-2018, 02:21 PM

I was going to ask the same question. Can someone post the song

**luke** · 12-15-2018, 03:09 PM

Yes please!!!

**RanRan79** · 12-15-2018, 03:59 PM

Yeah, I still haven't heard it.

**carlo** · 12-16-2018, 03:24 PM

Why not support future Supremes releases by purchasing a copy of The Supremes' Ultimate Merry Christmas? The duet can be heard on there...

https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Merr...dp/B075H4N4M3/

**George Solomon** · 12-18-2018, 02:10 PM

Thanks for the plug, Carlo. I'm playing disc 2 right now. The new mix of the whole album with alternate vocals, etc. is worth the price. But for the purist, the original mono mix on CD for the first time is a great bonus as well. Now my plug is complete!

**vgalindo** · 12-18-2018, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by George Solomon

Thanks for the plug, Carlo. I'm playing disc 2 right now. The new mix of the whole album with alternate vocals, etc. is worth the price. But for the purist, the original mono mix on CD for the first time is a great bonus as well. Now my plug is complete!

Thank you George. I love the new expanded edition. I am playing it right now too.