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  1. #201
    ... forgot to mention “The Whip A Rang” by EVD.

    That’s another STEVIE WONDER thingy found on a 1970 release huh?
    ...or am I thinking too much?

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by jbpintus View Post
    ...and quite surprised - but pleased - with the early incarnations of two songs who would eventually find their way on Stevie Wonder’s FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE lp eleven good months after the year 1967 ended!

    I do share the same questions as others here. The main one being “Nothing For Nothing” by JW&TAS !!!???? Nah! There must be an explanation...

    A great collection indeed!
    Yep definitely a alternate lyric version of Stevie Wonder's I'm more than happy I'm satisfied.

  3. #203
    Are we sure that 'Nothing For Nothing' is Jr. Walker & The All-Stars? It sounds nothing like him...to my ears it sounds kind of like Richard Street / The Monitors...

  4. #204
    The song “Nothing for Nothing” is “I’m more than happy (I’m satisfied)”. In fact, DFTMC indicates NFN is the alternate title for IMTH-IS. It also says it was published as late as December 1967. The version we have on MU67 was recorded earlier than that. Probably it means it was never meant to be released.
    Could we have a demo of the first version? Could it have a guide vocal just to show Jr Walker, who the song may have first been assigned to, how it goes?
    Then I could understand the JW&TAS being identified as the artist, even though the version we have today would have no input at all from the group or JW.
    If that’s the case, who is doing this guide vocal? a producer or writer would be logical. Do we hear Paul Riser or Henri Cosby sing? Or even Cornelius Grant?
    Hmmm... I’m really looking forward to the notes for this one!
    Last edited by jbpintus; 12-29-2017 at 04:58 PM.

  5. #205
    Some notable tracks:

    - “You Taught Me How To Care” (Martha Reeves & the Vandellas). A great smooth track. Probably more suited for the Supremes, but Martha gives a great vocal. Martha is definitely singing background, but who with? I don’t know Lois’ voice to know if it’s her. Maybe Rosalind?

    - “I’m So Glad It’s Twilight Time” (Martha Reeves & the Vandellas). Same instrumental track as the Velvelettes and I have to say they do it better. There are parts of Martha’s vocal I like and parts I don’t. Who is doing background vocals? Doesn’t sound quite like the Andantes.

    - “Since I Don’t Have You” (The Temptations). A nice find on the collection. It’s amazing how much David put into these songs. Even a filler track like this sounds like he was giving it his all.

    - “Destination: Anywhere” (The Marvelettes). I actually prefer Wanda’s vocal on this over the released vocal. It’s a sexier vocal take.

    - “Your Sweet Love Is All I Need” (The Spinners). Killer track. It’s a shame it’s taken this long for it to be released. These are the kind of tracks I look forward to hearing. Definitely a gem on this collection.
    Last edited by bradsupremes; 12-29-2017 at 07:28 PM.

  6. #206
    Downloaded mine tonight from Amazon US. $37.99. Just added it to my mp3 player so I will be listening to it tomorrow. Checked out a couple of the tracks and it got me very excited. Very excited to hear some of these groups I've only heard about.

  7. #207
    So, what’s the story with Chris Clark and the Vancouver’s? Since we don’t have any booklet, I am at a loss to figure out what these several tracks represent. Are they tracks from a live performance and should they be listened to in a particular order? Are they studio tracks? Or are they tracks that one of the artists recorded that were added to later by the other artist? Help!

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
    So, what’s the story with Chris Clark and the Vancouver’s? Since we don’t have any booklet, I am at a loss to figure out what these several tracks represent. Are they tracks from a live performance and should they be listened to in a particular order? Are they studio tracks? Or are they tracks that one of the artists recorded that were added to later by the other artist? Help!
    All I can do is give my opinion here. I would say first that these tracks are a testament to Berry Gordy's brainstorming sessions. At this point in 1967 neither of then had a hit,not even The Vancouvers,not yet. As a band their sound and look fit around Chris Clark. Listening to the tracks they don't sound like anything serious.They have an experimental aura to them as if Berry or management came up with the idea and wanted to hear a result on tape. They did cover tunes, unless they weren't chosen or were impossible to clear there is no original material. I believe B.G. wanted to have a back up plan for Chris just in case The Vancouvers didn't take off,which they did. They looked well together and sounded nice,but he wanted something to fall back on. It's better to be safe than sorry.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by jbpintus View Post
    The song “Nothing for Nothing” is “I’m more than happy (I’m satisfied)”. In fact, DFTMC indicates NFN is the alternate title for IMTH-IS. It also says it was published as late as December 1967. The version we have on MU67 was recorded earlier than that. Probably it means it was never meant to be released.
    Could we have a demo of the first version? Could it have a guide vocal just to show Jr Walker, who the song may have first been assigned to, how it goes?
    Then I could understand the JW&TAS being identified as the artist, even though the version we have today would have no input at all from the group or JW.
    If that’s the case, who is doing this guide vocal? a producer or writer would be logical. Do we hear Paul Riser or Henri Cosby sing? Or even Cornelius Grant?
    Hmmm... I’m really looking forward to the notes for this one!
    Me too been wracking my brains as to who this might be as it's obviously not JW - I don't instantly recognise the voice though

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by longtimefan View Post
    So, what’s the story with Chris Clark and the Vancouver’s? Since we don’t have any booklet, I am at a loss to figure out what these several tracks represent. Are they tracks from a live performance and should they be listened to in a particular order? Are they studio tracks? Or are they tracks that one of the artists recorded that were added to later by the other artist? Help!
    Chris suggested to me like these were all impromptu jam sessions when she and the group were in the studios together and they would experiment with various songs and various styles. I think she certainly knew the direction she wanted to go in even if it were different to the companies view. Somewhere there is a big band session she completed.

  11. #211
    Getting my CDR copy soon. Looking forward to playing them...disc 2-4 in particular.
    No Stevie tracks...does he ban the issue of these, as we did get some on CFOM ?
    I thought there might be some more Ivy Hunter and Originals.
    1967 was a big year at Motown, but quite turbulent.... The book Detroit 67 should be essential reading for Motown fans.
    Perhaps the artists on this release reflect this...Motown was splintering in many ways.

  12. #212
    Annotations might answer SOME questions ... now at http://www.dftmc.info/bonus/b-07a.html

  13. #213
    Thanks Keith, always interesting to see the details.
    Great job once again..girls vol 3 sounds like a good way to start 2018.
    Koko

  14. #214
    Thanks to Ritchie too - he got them formatted and uploaded in record time this year!

  15. #215
    Keith, R.E.M are credited with writing this track for Marvin.....
    but the band members would only have been about six years old... child prodigies? The appropriately named.....

    This Will make You Laugh

    cheers


    Mike
    2.02 This Will Make You Laugh - Marvin Gaye
    (Peter Buck-Mike Mills-Michael Stipe)
    Produced by Bobby Scott
    Track recorded in New York February 16, 1966, lead added February 3, 1967
    Last edited by MIKEW-UK; 12-30-2017 at 02:23 PM.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEW-UK View Post
    Keith, R.E.M are credited with writing this track for Marvin.....
    but the band members would only have been about six years old... child prodigies? The appropriately named.....

    This Will make You Laugh

    cheers


    Mike
    LOL ... This song was initially recorded by Nat King Cole in 1941 and credited to Irene Higgenbotham.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEW-UK View Post
    Keith, R.E.M are credited with writing this track for Marvin.....
    but the band members would only have been about six years old... child prodigies? The appropriately named.....

    This Will make You Laugh

    cheers


    Mike
    2.02 This Will Make You Laugh - Marvin Gaye
    (Peter Buck-Mike Mills-Michael Stipe)
    Produced by Bobby Scott
    Track recorded in New York February 16, 1966, lead added February 3, 1967
    Good catch! Yes, it was written by Irene Higginbotham.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEW-UK View Post
    Keith, R.E.M are credited with writing this track for Marvin.....
    but the band members would only have been about six years old... child prodigies? The appropriately named.....

    This Will make You Laugh

    cheers


    Mike
    2.02 This Will Make You Laugh - Marvin Gaye
    (Peter Buck-Mike Mills-Michael Stipe)
    Produced by Bobby Scott
    Track recorded in New York February 16, 1966, lead added February 3, 1967
    Some websites which provide lyrics identify the Nat King Cole version in the same incorrect fashion.

    https://www.letssingit.com/nat-king-...-laugh-nqqlc6q

    and

    https://www.lyrics.com/lyric/29295656
    Last edited by luckyluckyme; 12-30-2017 at 03:22 PM.

  19. #219
    That's no excuse, luckylucky, but thank you! And thx for spotting, MikeW. Ritchie is on it, and I'm sure will fix it fast. I should have checked at ASCAP.
    Last edited by keith_hughes; 12-31-2017 at 07:32 PM.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    Getting my CDR copy soon. Looking forward to playing them...disc 2-4 in particular.
    No Stevie tracks...does he ban the issue of these, as we did get some on CFOM ?
    I thought there might be some more Ivy Hunter and Originals.
    1967 was a big year at Motown, but quite turbulent.... The book Detroit 67 should be essential reading for Motown fans.
    Perhaps the artists on this release reflect this...Motown was splintering in many ways.
    IMO, One of the best books about Motown, was Detroit 67.

  21. #221
    Thanks for the reminder about "Detroit 67", snakepit and Motown4Ever518. I just ordered my brand new copy on eBay for $14.99 including free shipping. My copy, BTW, has the alternate front cover showing The Supremes in their back-stage dressing room in which Diana is sitting, smoking a cigarette; Mary has her back to the camera but her facial reflection can be seen in the mirror; and Flo is sitting in between them -- a familiar photo that most of us have seen elsewhere. I chose this cover purposely over (what I think was) the original cover showing a soldier. Most of the customer reviews boasted the same excellence regarding the book's month-by-month coverage of Motown Record Corporation during that summer of 1967 alongside the city's horrible flames and destruction.

  22. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Philles/Motown Gary View Post
    Thanks for the reminder about "Detroit 67", snakepit and Motown4Ever518. I just ordered my brand new copy on eBay for $14.99 including free shipping. My copy, BTW, has the alternate front cover showing The Supremes in their back-stage dressing room in which Diana is sitting, smoking a cigarette; Mary has her back to the camera but her facial reflection can be seen in the mirror; and Flo is sitting in between them -- a familiar photo that most of us have seen elsewhere. I chose this cover purposely over (what I think was) the original cover showing a soldier. Most of the customer reviews boasted the same excellence regarding the book's month-by-month coverage of Motown Record Corporation during that summer of 1967 alongside the city's horrible flames and destruction.
    Phillies/Motown Gary, I bet you my 1967 Richie Allen baseball card that that is the best $14.99 you will ever spend. I feel because the author is from "Across The Pond", he had an investigative reporters curiosity, a personal interest in the music, a sense of fair play to report without bias, to delve whole head first into the subject matter, that I believe someone who is based in the states may not have had.

    The author has in the pipeline Memphis 68, which I believe will be released in February 2018, and Harlem 69. Hopefully he is considering Philly 71, or 72, or 73.

  23. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown4Ever518 View Post
    Phillies/Motown Gary, I bet you my 1967 Richie Allen baseball card that that is the best $14.99 you will ever spend. I feel because the author is from "Across The Pond", he had an investigative reporters curiosity, a personal interest in the music, a sense of fair play to report without bias, to delve whole head first into the subject matter, that I believe someone who is based in the states may not have had.

    The author has in the pipeline Memphis 68, which I believe will be released in February 2018, and Harlem 69. Hopefully he is considering Philly 71, or 72, or 73.
    You've got me psyched, Motown4Ever! (Don't worry, I won't deprive you of your prized baseball card!) I can hardly wait to read it when it arrives next week! And that book on Memphis 68 is one I'm gonna be watching for as well. That one will surely cover both Stax and Hi Records. And, oh, man, I hope your wish comes true for Philly 73. That was the year when Philly Soul fully developed its sound -- just as soulful, uplifting AND elegant as can be! Let's keep our fingers crossed for that one!

  24. #224
    Stuart Cosgrove's 'Memphis 68' is already out (in the UK anyway).

  25. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by alanh View Post
    Stuart Cosgrove's 'Memphis 68' is already out (in the UK anyway).
    You're right, alanh. Memphis 68 is indeed already available on Amazon (U.S.) for $23.99 (hard cover) with free 2nd-day shipping for Prime members. Thanks for the heads up!

  26. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by keith_hughes View Post
    That's no excuse, luckylucky, but thank you! And thx for spotting, MikeW. Ritchie is on it, and I'm sure will fix it fast. I should have checked at ASCAP.

    Thanks Keith, I was concerned it might upset you as being nit picky but thought it best be pointed out. Thanks for all you do and the momentous, earthquaking, soul shaking, DFTMC, perhaps the biggest undertaking since the Bible, and in that case there were multiple authors.

    Mike

  27. #227
    The Agents are a mystery. The credits suggest the All Stars, so what was the thinking here?
    Any views?

  28. #228
    It's SURELY Junior on sax - who else could it be? But I would also say it's Earl Van Dyke on the organ.

    Interestingly, apart from Double O and a Half, none of the Agents tracks features a bass. Any bass sounds you hear on the rest of them are produced by the organist pedalling like a bicyclist. (Well, a bit like a bicyclist, maybe.) That doesn't yield a clue, however, as there's plenty of evidence that both Earl and All Stars organist Vic Thomas could use their feet ...
    Last edited by keith_hughes; 01-01-2018 at 10:03 AM.

  29. #229
    Hi Keith
    Could it be that the Jr Walker tracks were featuring the funk bros.?
    E.g. Roadrunner?
    Perhaps there was a feeling that their days as players in the snakepit were numbered, and tried The Agents to keep their hand in.

  30. #230
    Gladys Knight & the Pips DON'T PUT ME DOWN is outstanding. Written by Deke Richards and Debbie Dean.

  31. #231

  32. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    Played them, some nice "Motown" tracks but as ever the Marvin Gaye numbers leave me cold....stick to Nat King Cole/Sinatra for these songs...
    I couldn't agree more. I love Marvin Gaye doing Motown material, but these tracks are sterile and boring. Strangely enough, I'm not having the same problem with the Billy Eckstine and Barbara McNair inclusions. In fact Barbara McNair's "Lost" is one of the tracks I'm playing most.

  33. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinn View Post
    Should be pretty good given the contents. Never knew the company had plans for Rick Witte though I enjoyed the songs he wrote. We now have the cream of the 17 tracks The Underdogs recorded."Baby My Love Is Showing" will finally surface,so we'll see if it's the hit Morris Broadnax said it was. It was only supposed to be one more new Shorty Long track mixed in Mono,but there's two. I just want to be satisfied in the end. Thanks Keith,let's hear what you guys discovered!.
    Did you mean "I Got A Feeling Baby" by the Underdogs or "Baby My Love Is Showing" by Gladys Knight & the Pips" (both Morris Broadnax tracks)? They're both pretty good.
    Last edited by 144man; 01-05-2018 at 01:03 PM.

  34. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    THANK YOU, Keith, for sharing this ahead of release and for all of it!

    I'm going to assume that the absence of any Supremes tracks (with Flo or with Cindy) means that any of those remaining tracks have been earmarked for future release on the "Sing Holland-Dozier-Holland: Expanded Edition" and a possible "Reflections: Expanded Edition" sets coming in 2018.

    It's also interesting to see the lack of Tempts, Vandellas, and Four Tops tracks in this collection. One has to assume that their portions of the vault have already been combed through for previous sets over the years that included "previously unreleased" material.

    Are the Chris Clark and The Vancouvers tracks recorded live somewhere? I thought they toured/appeared together in those days.

    Looking forward to hearing all of this stuff!
    i thought i remember that Otis said in his book that the Temps were fortunate to work closely with their producers so that they really mostly just recorded content that was released. That they didn't have as much canned tracks. it would have benefited the group as they didn't have as high of studio costs

    I'm also assuming that Motown had the accounting in place to know if mary actually did the recording for a background and therefore only charged her for those sessions. Like Love Child. she gets the royalties from it but were the girls charged for the recording?

  35. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    Did you mean "I Got A Feeling Baby" by the Underdogs or "Baby My Love Is Showing" by Gladys Knight & the Pips" (both Morris Broadnax tracks)? They're both pretty good.
    " Baby My Love Is Showing" is the song I was referring to. Upon hearing the song I don't think it's a hit, but you know creative people people and their creations. They love everything they do and are hardly objective usually.Just ask Quincy Jones!!!.

  36. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I love Marvin Gaye doing Motown material, but these tracks are sterile and boring. Strangely enough, I'm not having the same problem with the Billy Eckstine and Barbara McNair inclusions. In fact Barbara McNair's "Lost" is one of the tracks I'm playing most.
    Yes, the Marvin Gaye tracks are pretty trite and another thing to consider is how many there are. Berry Gordy knew he couldn't sell these recordings and made no plans on releasing them. He even shelved Marvin's Copa performances in late'66. Even though they are nice to have and collect I think they are a testament to Marvin and B.G.'s love/hate relationship and how difficult Marvin could be if he didn't get his way. Marvin spent a lot of money on these recordings with his wishful thinking. B.G. as a slick entrepreneur knew that if he allowed Marvin to have fun doing something he loved then he could keep cash coming in from the stuff Marvin didn't love. The vast amount of tracks in this style speaks volumes about the needs and wants of both guys to me.

  37. #237
    The Marvin Gaye tracks were not as well crafted as the Vulnerable sessions to my ears. It appears as though the songs were in the vein of his "Crooner" period from the early 60's. On the one hand, his take on the songs is not what one may have heard before from someone who specialized in that genre. On the other hand it's not a bad thing to have those songs in one place, done by someone as vocally gifted as MPG. Perhaps the way to go would have been to package all of these unreleased songs together from all of the years, and present them as Marvin Gaye doing standards, on a two or three CD set. By doing so, it might appeal to a wider range of an audience.

  38. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown4Ever518 View Post
    The Marvin Gaye tracks were not as well crafted as the Vulnerable sessions to my ears. It appears as though the songs were in the vein of his "Crooner" period from the early 60's. On the one hand, his take on the songs is not what one may have heard before from someone who specialized in that genre. On the other hand it's not a bad thing to have those songs in one place, done by someone as vocally gifted as MPG. Perhaps the way to go would have been to package all of these unreleased songs together from all of the years, and present them as Marvin Gaye doing standards, on a two or three CD set. By doing so, it might appeal to a wider range of an audience.
    Good points 518,but bringing all of these recordings together to create a quintessential box set probably wouldn't make sense financially. The seven tracks that made 1997's " Vulnerable" are the perfected versions. It took him ten years and a painful marriage with Janis to finally get them right. What about the false starts and struggles beforehand?. That's a good four to five discs itself,not including everything else,some of which we're getting now. That's a box heftier than we think,that's why it's never been done. Not to mention that it can't be pressed in great quantities cause only hard core fans are gonna attack it. Once the bean counters look at the bottom line,it wouldn't make sense unless they priced it ridiculously high. High prices keep you from purchasing things. That box would strictly be for connoisseurs. Giving it a little at a time is the only way it works my friend.

  39. #239
    Quinn,
    I share with you your take on the Vulnerable Sessions. Mr. Gaye had some living to do before he could SING these songs as opposed to just sing them. The world is full of folks who can sing a song, but you have to go through it to be able to transmit the lyrics so that anyone can feel what you are expressing.

  40. #240
    Does anyone know of any site that has this available in a lossless format (e.g., flac) and will sell to customers in the US? I bought the previous editions from us.7digital.com, so I've been checking for it there, but nothing yet.

  41. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by TrulyYours View Post
    Does anyone know of any site that has this available in a lossless format (e.g., flac) and will sell to customers in the US? I bought the previous editions from us.7digital.com, so I've been checking for it there, but nothing yet.
    Try qobuz music. That is where I downloaded mine from. They offer this in various formats including WAV.

    https://www.qobuz.com

  42. #242
    This site is great for any of the Motown Unreleased sets and many other albums. So cheap too - the complete Motown Unreleased 1967 in mp3 for £9.16 and wav or flac for £12.49.

    https://www.junodownload.com/search/?q[all][0]=motown+unreleased+1967

  43. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by booty View Post
    Try qobuz music. That is where I downloaded mine from. They offer this in various formats including WAV.

    https://www.qobuz.com
    Qobuz isn't doing business for customers in the USA until sometime in 2018.

  44. #244
    Interesting hearing people's thoughts on the Marvin tracks. I don't mind them, but so many in a row make the set slow down a bit. I had the idea of pulling the Marin tracks from 1966 - 67 and putting them into their own "lp". Certainly there is nothing bad about Marvin's standards recording during this period, until you hear what he does with them with some maturity and pain behind him. Then they pale. I think he was trying too hard to sound like a crooner and not trusting that his own Marvin-ness would add to the songs. That's what all the truly great singers do, bring themselves to the recordings. He just doesn't sound like he's truly found himself on these.

  45. #245
    Only The Four Tops could pull off the standards. The other Motown artists are virtually unlistenable especially the puny Diana Ross.

  46. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by thommg View Post
    Interesting hearing people's thoughts on the Marvin tracks. I don't mind them, but so many in a row make the set slow down a bit. I had the idea of pulling the Marin tracks from 1966 - 67 and putting them into their own "lp". Certainly there is nothing bad about Marvin's standards recording during this period, until you hear what he does with them with some maturity and pain behind him. Then they pale. I think he was trying too hard to sound like a crooner and not trusting that his own Marvin-ness would add to the songs. That's what all the truly great singers do, bring themselves to the recordings. He just doesn't sound like he's truly found himself on these.
    Interesting. I wonder how many singers got lost in the shuffle because they didn't figure out how to own the music they were performing.

    Fourtopsbiggestfan

    Only The Four Tops could pull off the standards. The other Motown artists are virtually unlistenable especially the puny Diana Ross
    Would you name a couple of those Four Tops ones you are referring to?

  47. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Interesting. I wonder how many singers got lost in the shuffle because they didn't figure out how to own the music they were performing.



    Would you name a couple of those Four Tops ones you are referring to?
    WHEN YOU'RE SMILING-On Ed Sullivan
    The BREATHING THROUGH and ON BROADWAY album. Probably could've done without QUIET NIGHTS OF QUIET STARS, BLUSETTE from ON TOP.

  48. #248
    I don't know why it escaped me previously- but I just noticed that the lyrics on 'You Hit Me Where it Hurt Me' by the Underdogs vary from Kim Weston's version- Yet the composers are identical.
    There are 3 dates listed for the recording of the Underdog's lead vocals. If all 3 attempts still exist on master tape, do all 3 utilize the same lyrics? Or are there variations among the 3?

  49. #249
    Listening more closely, it appears that the Underdog's version might just be an answer-song version to Kim's. But if Kim's version went unreleased why the need for an answer-song?

    And is the exclusion of the word 'Right' from the song title of the Underdog's version (though still sung in the lyrics) a clue that it was designed to be a different (i.e.answer) song?
    Last edited by luckyluckyme; 01-08-2018 at 06:00 PM.

  50. #250
    Another question for Keith (if & when he has a spare moment);

    Concerning the 2 versions of Lost; Billy Eckstine/Barbara McNair;
    both are produced by Frank Wilson. Barbara's track is recorded first but finished last. Billy's is an original Motown mix; Barbara's is mixed by Richard Hughes.
    Did Mr. Hughes listen to Billy's take before he began work on Barbara's?
    For my taste, the interplay of instrumention and vocals in Billy's version is well balanced. In Barbara's take, I found the immediate emphasis on the drums (0:14), then the guitar (1:36) rather distracting. My attentioin was quickly diverted away from Barbara's vocal and the lyrics. I'm assuming that was the way they were put to tape - or were they? Did Mr. Hughes mix it in that way to draw attention to those instruments?
    In Billy's version, the drums do not receive emphasis until about 2:36. It appears to be the same drummer on both versions. Is my hearing correct?

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