Diana Ross and Ethel Waters

[jobeterob]

http://thecommonills.blogspot.ca/201...rs-on.html?m=1

[reese]

I always like watching this clip of Diana and Ethel. It is nice to see such history preserved

[RanRan79]

Ethel was a well established legend by this point. What is there to say about her greatness? But Diana...that girl could flat out sing and this is one of my favorite "testaments" to that. She sounds fantastic.

[John G. Stumpf]

I never saw this. I was spellbound by Ethel Water's performance, an amazing talent. I did not like the duet arrangement because it exemplified the strengths of one singer and the weaknesses of the other and it is painful to watch. I found the sentiment between the two refreshing. I see Ethel calmed down later in life because something like this would have never happened in her prime. Ethel was known for pulling no punches in her observations of other female performers.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Great clip; I was unaware of this appearance. As we know Diana paid tribute to Ethel Waters in her Palace Theatre NYC engagement and elsewhere on the tour.

[Guy]

I neer saw this. I was spellbound by Ethel Water's performance, an amazing talent. I did not like the duet arrangement because it exemplified the strengths of one singer and the weaknesses of the other and it is painful to watch. I found the sentiment between the two refreshing. I see Ethel calmed down later in life because something like this would have never happened in her prime. Ethel was known for pulling no punches in her observations of other female performers.

Yes, well, Ms. Waters had suffered several reversals of fortune by this point in her career. Once the greatest black female entertainer of her time, Waters was scarcely remembered by popular culture audiences in her golden years and was under great financial duress. Her reputation as an "unkind" person also kept her outside the good graces of Black Hollywood. Still, it is nice to see Motown/Ross pay her such a warm tribute.

[reese]

Yes, well, Ms. Waters had suffered several reversals of fortune by this point in her career. Once the greatest black female entertainer of her time, Waters was scarcely remembered by popular culture audiences in her golden years and was under great financial duress. Her reputation as an "unkind" person also kept her outside the good graces of Black Hollywood. Still, it is nice to see Motown/Ross pay her such a warm tribute.

Very true. I read that Miss Waters was so much in debt that she actually appeared on a 50s tv show "BREAK THE BANK" to try to win enough to pay off all her debts. I gather she experienced a religious rebirth shortly thereafter and appeared often with Evangelist Billy Graham.

The last time I saw her was an appearance on the Mike Douglas Show not long before her death. She wasn't prepared, but with the help of cue cards, he was able to coax her into singing CABIN IN THE SKY.

[brother_love]

I was at this tapping of the Hollywood Place sitting in the third row, a night I will never forget!

[John G. Stumpf]

Yes, well, Ms. Waters had suffered several reversals of fortune by this point in her career. Once the greatest black female entertainer of her time, Waters was scarcely remembered by popular culture audiences in her golden years and was under great financial duress. Her reputation as an "unkind" person also kept her outside the good graces of Black Hollywood. Still, it is nice to see Motown/Ross pay her such a warm tribute.

Ethel Waters was a phenomenon in her day. She introduced so many songs that have become part of the American Songbook, yet her contributions to popular culture and Broadway are largely forgotten.

Carmen McRae, Diahann Carroll and others made it known in no uncertain terms exactly what they thought of a certain black female singer's vocal capability, in the same way Ethel Waters did in her day about the competition. Lena Horne, in particular, was a target for the wrath of Ethel Waters. Maybe in the late 70s when Carmen McRae's career was faltering, she might have had a tribute of her in a top show in NYC if she hadn't been so outspoken. I don't think one person in the music industry should give interviews and say a performer cannot sing and is not talented, and is successful for other reasons than talent. That is where I draw the line. It is not professional and also gives the appearance of jealousy and bitterness.

Year	Single	US chart [22][nb 1]
1921	"Down Home Blues"	5
"There'll Be Some Changes Made"	5
1922	"Spread Yo' Stuff"	7
"Tiger Rag"	14
1923	"Georgia Blues"	10
1925	"Sweet Georgia Brown"	6
1926	"Dinah"	2
"I've Found a New Baby"	11
"Sugar"	9
1927	"I'm Coming, Virginia"	10
1929	"Am I Blue?"	1
"Birmingham Bertha"	20
"True Blue Lou"	15
1931	"Three Little Words"	8
"I Got Rhythm"	17
"You Can't Stop Me from Loving You"	13
"Shine On, Harvest Moon"	9
"River, Stay 'Way from My Door"	18
1933	"Stormy Weather"	1
"Don't Blame Me"	6
"Heat Wave"	7
"A Hundred Years from Today"	7
1934	"Come Up and See Me Sometime"	9
"Miss Otis Regrets [[She's Unable to Lunch Today)"	19
1938	"You're a Sweetheart"	16

Notes[edit]

• Jump up^

[John G. Stumpf]

Year	Single	US chart [22][nb 1]
1921	"Down Home Blues"	5
"There'll Be Some Changes Made"	5
1922	"Spread Yo' Stuff"	7
"Tiger Rag"	14
1923	"Georgia Blues"	10
1925	"Sweet Georgia Brown"	6
1926	"Dinah"	2
"I've Found a New Baby"	11
"Sugar"	9
1927	"I'm Coming, Virginia"	10
1929	"Am I Blue?"	1
"Birmingham Bertha"	20
"True Blue Lou"	15
1931	"Three Little Words"	8
"I Got Rhythm"	17
"You Can't Stop Me from Loving You"	13
"Shine On, Harvest Moon"	9
"River, Stay 'Way from My Door"	18
1933	"Stormy Weather"	1
"Don't Blame Me"	6
"Heat Wave"	7
"A Hundred Years from Today"	7
1934	"Come Up and See Me Sometime"	9
"Miss Otis Regrets [[She's Unable to Lunch Today)"	19
1938	"You're a Sweetheart"	16

Notes[edit]

• Jump up^

[marv2]

I was at this tapping of the Hollywood Place sitting in the third row, a night I will never forget!

Wow Brother Love. I was kid when I first saw this on television.

[marv2]

Year	Single	US chart [22][nb 1]
1921	"Down Home Blues"	5
"There'll Be Some Changes Made"	5
1922	"Spread Yo' Stuff"	7
"Tiger Rag"	14
1923	"Georgia Blues"	10
1925	"Sweet Georgia Brown"	6
1926	"Dinah"	2
"I've Found a New Baby"	11
"Sugar"	9
1927	"I'm Coming, Virginia"	10
1929	"Am I Blue?"	1
"Birmingham Bertha"	20
"True Blue Lou"	15
1931	"Three Little Words"	8
"I Got Rhythm"	17
"You Can't Stop Me from Loving You"	13
"Shine On, Harvest Moon"	9
"River, Stay 'Way from My Door"	18
1933	"Stormy Weather"	1
"Don't Blame Me"	6
"Heat Wave"	7
"A Hundred Years from Today"	7
1934	"Come Up and See Me Sometime"	9
"Miss Otis Regrets [[She's Unable to Lunch Today)"	19
1938	"You're a Sweetheart"	16

Notes[edit]

• Jump up^

Hey John that is great. For me, Ethel Waters was already an elderly woman when I was a kid in the sixties. She was of my grandparents generation ,but we still knew of her from her old movies played on television.

[brother_love]

I feel it's a downright crime that the great Ethel Waters has not been honored with a star on Hollywood's Walk of Fame.

Here is a woman who was one of the first female recording artist and originally recorded three songs that are now in the Grammy Hall of fame, she was a major Broadway star appearing in over 20 shows, an Academy Award nominee and the second African American to be nominated for an Oscar, the first African-American woman to be nominated for an Emmy Award in 1962, a television pioneer who was the first African American actress to star in the television series Beulah.

Miss Waters was one of the all time greatest and it’s about time that Hollywood starts to give her props.


Appearing in the 1933 Irving Berlin Broadway Musical, As Thousands Cheer where she introduced his classic song, "Heatwave"

[RanRan79]

I feel it's a downright crime that the great Ethel Waters has not been honored with a star on Hollywood's Walk of Fame.

It is indeed criminal Brother.

[jobeterob]

An Incredible list of really overlooked accomplishments

[TheMotownManiac]

I always think it's funny when someone talks about somebody else not being able to sing when that person has a tremendous fan following, industry respect, and a history making, record-setting iconic career… It is classless, and humiliating to them for being so bitter and jealous. No one can become popular in the music business as a recording artist because of other reasons… I hit record her to certainly, any fluke can happen… But a career,? People do not choose to buy a concert ticket or an album for any other reason but the fact that they like the sound and style of that performer. I know that Diane Carol was insidiously jealous of Diana Ross…… Especially during production of lady sings the blues…… Once it came out, and was the success that it was, she Was quiet about the movie until it was announced the Paramount was going to shoot Rosses next movie, "no strings "the film version of the Broadway musical that Had starred Diane Carol…… what makes matters worse, is that Diana refused to do the movie, and no one else wanted to film it with anyone but Diana… evidently Julia didn't care for that at all! LOL

Ethel Waters was a phenomenon in her day. She introduced so many songs that have become part of the American Songbook, yet her contributions to popular culture and Broadway are largely forgotten.

Carmen McRae, Diahann Carroll and others made it known in no uncertain terms exactly what they thought of a certain black female singer's vocal capability, in the same way Ethel Waters did in her day about the competition. Lena Horne, in particular, was a target for the wrath of Ethel Waters. Maybe in the late 70s when Carmen McRae's career was faltering, she might have had a tribute of her in a top show in NYC if she hadn't been so outspoken. I don't think one person in the music industry should give interviews and say a performer cannot sing and is not talented, and is successful for other reasons than talent. That is where I draw the line. It is not professional and also gives the appearance of jealousy and bitterness.

Year	Single	US chart [22][nb 1]
1921	"Down Home Blues"	5
"There'll Be Some Changes Made"	5
1922	"Spread Yo' Stuff"	7
"Tiger Rag"	14
1923	"Georgia Blues"	10
1925	"Sweet Georgia Brown"	6
1926	"Dinah"	2
"I've Found a New Baby"	11
"Sugar"	9
1927	"I'm Coming, Virginia"	10
1929	"Am I Blue?"	1
"Birmingham Bertha"	20
"True Blue Lou"	15
1931	"Three Little Words"	8
"I Got Rhythm"	17
"You Can't Stop Me from Loving You"	13
"Shine On, Harvest Moon"	9
"River, Stay 'Way from My Door"	18
1933	"Stormy Weather"	1
"Don't Blame Me"	6
"Heat Wave"	7
"A Hundred Years from Today"	7
1934	"Come Up and See Me Sometime"	9
"Miss Otis Regrets [[She's Unable to Lunch Today)"	19
1938	"You're a Sweetheart"	16

Notes[edit]

• Jump up^

[RanRan79]

I always think it's funny when someone talks about somebody else not being able to sing when that person has a tremendous fan following, industry respect, and a history making, record-setting iconic career… It is classless, and humiliating to them for being so bitter and jealous. No one can become popular in the music business as a recording artist because of other reasons… I hit record her to certainly, any fluke can happen… But a career,? People do not choose to buy a concert ticket or an album for any other reason but the fact that they like the sound and style of that performer. I know that Diane Carol was insidiously jealous of Diana Ross…… Especially during production of lady sings the blues…… Once it came out, and was the success that it was, she Was quiet about the movie until it was announced the Paramount was going to shoot Rosses next movie, "no strings "the film version of the Broadway musical that Had starred Diane Carol…… what makes matters worse, is that Diana refused to do the movie, and no one else wanted to film it with anyone but Diana… evidently Julia didn't care for that at all! LOL

I don't know anything about Ms. Carroll's attitude regarding Diana and wonder if any talk about it might be gossip. There are some people who enjoy fanning flames of feuds, dislike and hatred between certain singers. But Motown Maniac you're dealing in indisputable facts when you talk about the career of Diana Ross. She never would have even been a Primette if others didn't recognize her talent, let alone go on to front America's most successful group through 12 number ones and then go on to a solo career that put her in the Guinness Book. No one bought "Where Did Our Love Go", "You Keep Me Hanging On", or "Someday We'll Be Together" because Diana was giving some to Gordy. Those records sold because the girl could sing [[in addition to the other likeable things about the record). Anyone bringing up anything else just sounds silly. Like some of the nasty comments about Mary in the thread about her interview. People couldn't just be glad that a former Supreme is still getting her time in the light when it seems like so often our legends aren't given their just due. People had to down it, taking shots at Mary. I keep saying it and I'll keep on saying it, there's just something really weird about these people. What is it about Diana Ross and Mary Wilson that makes these folks act so strange? That's a question no one ever seems to be able to answer.

But the video posted here is two legends doing what they did/do so well.

[Guy]

Diahann Carroll is a legendary star and was a very popular singer/actress, with success on Broadway, television, in movies and as a live performer, years before Ross enjoyed any notoriety. She's a tremendous entertainer and I'm saddened to see her unfairly maligned. She was not "insidiously" jealous of Ross but has confessed that she was envious of Berry Gordy's devotion to making Ross a star. Indeed, Gordy groomed Ross to be a glamorous cross-cultural singing actress in the mold of Carroll or Lena Horne. I think it's only natural that the other talented black female stars who preceded Ross -- women who built their careers, against the odds and without a svengali's guiding hand -- hold a dim view of Ross's talent and success.

Of course, we know that Ross has the undeniable x-factor that only God gave her. All of Gordy's efforts notwithstanding, Ross could not be the iconic star she is today if she didn't have something very special that connects her to audiences.

Ross herself was similarly confounded when Whitney Houston blazed onto the scene to eclipse her fame and commercial success. There were rumours of Ross being "insidiously" jealous of Houston's success, reaching a crescendo when Whitney was slated to star in "Dreamgirls." Whitney only passed on that role when it was finally decided that there was no plausible way to revise the story to allow Deena Jones to sing Effie's showstoppers. Still, Ross must have been miffed to see Whitney, a lesser acting talent, become for a time the highest-paid black female actress in Hollywood.

[TheMotownManiac]

First, let me say I did not mean to impugn the talent of Diane Carol… I have seen her live five times and unless you have seen her live, there is no way to gauge just how wonderful she is. Like Ross, call me in a different way, she has a magic…… And a wonderful wonderful voice. I once saw her perform with vic Damone, and they're act was quite good..... but I prefer solo and in a small room like Feinstein's or the cabaret at the desert inn. I even had a post show drink with her and a couple friends, as I have a close buddy Who was at William Morris for 35 years, and it is from him that I got my Diane carol information. On stage she is elegant, classy and can anything. The 40 minutes I spent with her, she was still elegant and classy, not unaware of her assets nor shy to toss off a slightly wicked aside now and then.

I don't know anything about how Diana Ross felt about Whitney Houston's meteoric rise to the top, but if she had negative in her mind, she wisely kept them out of her mouth. Do I think she was jealous and or envious that she couldn't get a hit off of eaten alive while Whitney was having back to back number ones? Yes… I think she must have been very very "concerned.' Only Aretha had cause it not to be. However, I have heard Diana publicly praising Whitney's talents.

I do bristle at times about people going on and on and on about how berry Gordy gave so much attention to Diana - especially "at the expense of others" when Whitney got every bit as much attention from Clive Davis - and like Clive Davis, was not able to create similar careers to other gifted singers like fantasia and Jennifer Hudson and many many others. Like Berry Gordy did with others, Clive tried hard, and there's no denying their talents, but he just couldn't make it happen for them. Also like Berry Gordy, Clive make decisions for Whitney that were sometimes more beneficial for him than her. I'm not knocking Clive Davis - many people consider him to be the most influential person in the history of the record…… but he was not always acting in her best interest and, without starting a whole can of worms here, I think some of Whitney's problems lay at his feet.

[TheMotownManiac]

I love this video as well… I always have I think they sound and blend beautifully together and to see these two generations in each others arms making beautiful music together still amazes me. As far as people passing about Diana and Mary, I think it all stems from dream girl, regardless of what side you're on or were on that was 30 40 50+ years ago… How about three weeks ago? I saw Otis' temps, the tops, Martha and Mary at Coney Island and then Diana Ross two nights later. Who would've thought back in 1965, that 52 years later we still be able to see these incredible performers? I could pick lots of things apart if I want to: no David no Eddie no Paul, no Levi… But I quite enjoyed both groups which is very very difficult for me without those original voices mentioned…… How on earth do you replace Levi stubs????? Diana and Mary both started out a little rough in the voice and by the end of their sets, were at the peak of their talents. Martha was even more Martha-ish then usual. I don't care if Diana Made. Mary sleep on the floor, or if Mary didn't invite Diana to her wedding… let them hash it out if need be, I'm just enjoying the show!


QUOTE=RanRan79;414407]I don't know anything about Ms. Carroll's attitude regarding Diana and wonder if any talk about it might be gossip. There are some people who enjoy fanning flames of feuds, dislike and hatred between certain singers. But Motown Maniac you're dealing in indisputable facts when you talk about the career of Diana Ross. She never would have even been a Primette if others didn't recognize her talent, let alone go on to front America's most successful group through 12 number ones and then go on to a solo career that put her in the Guinness Book. No one bought "Where Did Our Love Go", "You Keep Me Hanging On", or "Someday We'll Be Together" because Diana was giving some to Gordy. Those records sold because the girl could sing [[in addition to the other likeable things about the record). Anyone bringing up anything else just sounds silly. Like some of the nasty comments about Mary in the thread about her interview. People couldn't just be glad that a former Supreme is still getting her time in the light when it seems like so often our legends aren't given their just due. People had to down it, taking shots at Mary. I keep saying it and I'll keep on saying it, there's just something really weird about these people. What is it about Diana Ross and Mary Wilson that makes these folks act so strange? That's a question no one ever seems to be able to answer.

But the video posted here is two legends doing what they did/do so well.[/QUOTE]

[jobucats]

I was never aware of Ethel Waters until I saw her on the Billy Graham crusade programs. I recall ordering an album featuring music from the crusade just to hear her minister in song. This clip is from 1969 around the same time that she also did the duet with Diana.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ6e75rV_nQ

[RanRan79]

I think it's only natural that the other talented black female stars who preceded Ross -- women who built their careers, against the odds and without a svengali's guiding hand -- hold a dim view of Ross's talent and success.

That sounds like jealousy to me. And if true, is rather ridiculous considering women like Diahann Carroll walked into the industry in a completely different way than Diana Ross. That would be like Bette Midler annoyed that Queen Latifah is having the kind of success she's having. Diahann Carroll was a Broadway sensation, a show tunes queen. Diana Ross made her name making r&b and pop music. Can't even compare the two walks. That's not to say that I find it difficult to believe that any woman- Black or white, or even men- in the business at the time was envious of Diana and her star status. Can you imagine the kind of jealousy some folks in the biz had toward Aretha, the Beatles, Elvis, and other astronomically huge stars? I just find it hard to believe that Diahann Carroll was catty with her jealousy, like someone else earlier in the thread insinuated.

Ross herself was similarly confounded when Whitney Houston blazed onto the scene to eclipse her fame and commercial success. There were rumours of Ross being "insidiously" jealous of Houston's success, reaching a crescendo when Whitney was slated to star in "Dreamgirls." Whitney only passed on that role when it was finally decided that there was no plausible way to revise the story to allow Deena Jones to sing Effie's showstoppers. Still, Ross must have been miffed to see Whitney, a lesser acting talent, become for a time the highest-paid black female actress in Hollywood.

For that Ross only had her self to blame. She stopped working with Michael Masser, who eventually gave Whitney some classics. She passed on more commercially viable avenues and opted for crap like "Pieces of Ice" and "Eaten Alive" [[although I do like "Eaten Alive"). And she stopped giving serious consideration to the movies that came her way. Whitney was going to be Whitney no matter what, just like Diana was always going to be Diana no matter what. But Ross had a few good years left when Whitney exploded and instead of milking them, Diana settled for crap. [[I do understand that the births of her sons play a part in this that couldn't be helped.) Whitney as an actress sucked. Diana's acting had been critically acclaimed. No use in her being mad at Whitney. If Diana wanted to be the highest paid Black actress she should have kept at it.

[RanRan79]

I do bristle at times about people going on and on and on about how berry Gordy gave so much attention to Diana - especially "at the expense of others" when Whitney got every bit as much attention from Clive Davis - and like Clive Davis, was not able to create similar careers to other gifted singers like fantasia and Jennifer Hudson and many many others. Like Berry Gordy did with others, Clive tried hard, and there's no denying their talents, but he just couldn't make it happen for them.

Clive was very hands on with Whitney's career, similarly to the way Gordy was with Diana's career. I don't know if Clive was as heavily involved in the day to day of Fantasia and JHud's careers though.

[RanRan79]

As far as people passing about Diana and Mary, I think it all stems from dream girl, regardless of what side you're on or were on that was 30 40 50+ years ago…

Is that what it is? A 30 year old book? It just makes these folks look more dumb and stupid than they did before I read what you just wrote. Dumb and stupid, each and every one of them.

[marv2]

I've always loved Diahann Carroll's work. She was great on "Dynasty" back in the 80's. "Hurry Sundown" and "Carmen Jones" were also favorite movies of mine back in the day.

[marv2]

Whitney also won every music related award triple times over and then some.