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  1. #1
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    Mafia controls mOtOwn

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INTERNATIONAL-...item2308d4b816

    Anyone else see this at the time?

    It was also the first and only magazine that contained small ads allowing men to meet [[shock horrors) other men!!

  2. #2
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    Never saw it before, John. It looks to me like a hippy and/or underground magazine, like Hitweek was in Holland at the time [[1970). Rumours about Motown & Mafia were all over the place then, maybe partly because of the big amount of white lawyers that took control of even the musical divisions. Funny that the paper runs a Martha [[with Lois and Sandra) pic instead of a Supremes one.

  3. #3
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    It's always been true that the mob controlled at least a few of the record companies in the 60s and 70s. It more or less ended in the 80s, but even then, the mob had their hands in to a few things. Sylvia and Joe Robinson's Sugarhill Records comes to mind.
    Last edited by soulster; 01-24-2011 at 10:22 AM. Reason: typo

  4. #4
    topdiva1 Guest
    That is likely the hand that ruined Motown, if this is the least bit true.

  5. #5
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    Topdiva1-It certainly didn't go down well with a lot of folks over in the UK either. If you cast your mind back, at tha time, the hits were not as plentiful as they had to be and it almost explained why that might be so.

    Robbert is right, it was one of those hippy newspapers but it was very popular with the "anti-establishment" crowd.

    Soulster's remark about Sugarhill found its way over here at about the same time. That was sad. But there were more rumours and some of them were connected to the smaller Detroit labels that SDF focuses on. There is now "Money Laundering" rules that are supposed to be so tight that they stop that kind of thing.......*eyes roll to ceiling*

  6. #6
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    It was also rumored the "mob" wanted Mary Wells and in snooping around Motown to get her they decided to take the
    whole company. The argument is that Motown exploded in '64 right after Wells' departure--Supremes, Temps, Tops
    all becoming big acts and before that had never had a hit. Wells career was destroyed, basically, to get loyalty
    from the others and to show without Motown no one can make it. Again none of this has ever been more than
    talk & rumor. And then there were a lot of other rumors as well involving the mob controlling Motown.

  7. #7
    topdiva1 Guest
    There was a famous quote going around back in the day that the MAFIA told Gordy '...we want half of Motown or you will have all of nothing". Sounds interesting but was it true?

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    I don't know, it was also rumored they ran him out of Detroit. I doubt that, however, but who knows. Mike Roshkind
    was rumored to be a mobster.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdiva1 View Post
    That is likely the hand that ruined Motown, if this is the least bit true.
    No one ruined Motown. The musical landscape changed, tastes changed, and the powers that be at Motown didn't navigate it too well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topdiva1 View Post
    There was a famous quote going around back in the day that the MAFIA told Gordy '...we want half of Motown or you will have all of nothing". Sounds interesting but was it true?
    I'm sure there was a time when the mob approached Motown, but i'm sure they were sly enough not to mess with an indie company as big as Motown. Now, organized crime did get to companies like Stax, but to what extent, no one knows for sure. Lots of individuals in the record business were shaken down and even beaten. To this day, there are those who were affected that will not speak about it. Some of the players are still alive.

  11. #11
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    I never read that magazine, but have heard the Mafia at Motown allegations. I have some older musician friends who swear they were at the company the day the mob moved in. One pal says the mob arrived with Barbara McNair, who was later allegedly found to have been "mobbed up or married to the mob." The mob was everywhere. THE MAFIA even controlled an Italian neighborhood grocery store in the town I was born in. If the mob could run numbers and control gambling in this small store, and the entire community around this business...it could easily get into the record business.
    Last edited by Kamasu_Jr; 01-24-2011 at 02:03 PM.

  12. #12
    MissLish Guest
    Was Paul Williams murdered?

  13. #13
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    It is so very likely that the mob was involved in the entertainment world because the proceeds can be so great--
    stories of the mob controlling record distributors, jukeboxes, entertainers [[like Frank Sinatra), etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissLish View Post
    Was Paul Williams murdered?
    Some people believe so, but why?

  15. #15
    MissLish Guest
    Are they alleging that Paul's murder was mafia related?

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    What could Paul Williams have known that the Mafia wanted to keep silent?

  17. #17
    MissLish Guest
    Baby, I have no idea. I do know that the only motivation the Mob has to commit murder is not always to keep someone silent; sometimes it is to send a message. I've heard the same rumors as everyone else. When I heard the rumor that Paul Williams was murdered, and then nothing further, I always thought was this supposed to be a Mob connected deal? I thought someone here might have additional information.

    For the record, I don't think the Mob controlled Motown, nor do I think Paul Williams was murdered. But, I am open to the consideration if someone shares something more than speculation.

  18. #18
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    I doubt the Mafia story. It's not real plausible. I agree with soulster on what happened to the label.

  19. #19
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    Let's see................I think it may be safe to say that during the 60's/70's that Tamla/Motown was not run by the Black Mafia and I stress Black Mafia. I think it may be also safe to say that there were folks tied to Motown that were in the Black Mafia.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    Let's see................I think it may be safe to say that during the 60's/70's that Tamla/Motown was not run by the Black Mafia and I stress Black Mafia. I think it may be also safe to say that there were folks tied to Motown that were in the Black Mafia.
    I agree. There was a time when the Mafia controlled nightclubs [[THE COPA) and other businesses. Entertainers had to deal with the mob. They couldn't avoid the mob.

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    Allright, gang. There was no Mafia. One of the great Urban Legends. From what I saw during my seven years under contract, was a company fear of two brothers, the Novicks, who would come in from out of town periodically. I was never quite sure what there role was at Motown, but whatever it was, it was heavy duty. It seemed department heads would worriedly get their s**t together in anticipation of the coming of the brothers. I think it had much to do with the financial health of the company though, and no one was going to end up sleeping with fishes.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    Allright, gang. There was no Mafia. One of the great Urban Legends. From what I saw during my seven years under contract, was a company fear of two brothers, the Novicks, who would come in from out of town periodically. I was never quite sure what there role was at Motown, but whatever it was, it was heavy duty. It seemed department heads would worriedly get their s**t together in anticipation of the coming of the brothers. I think it had much to do with the financial health of the company though, and no one was going to end up sleeping with fishes.
    Ralph, Berry Gordy addressed the Mafia rumour in his biography. He denied it. But you can't deny that some at the company--like Barbara McNair didn't have mafia connections. She DEFINITELY did.
    I'm not saying the MAFIA controlled Motown. But it probably sniffed around Hitsville to see what it could see or exploit. Why did Gordy go from being easily accessible to an alleged bullet-proof limo and bodyguards?
    Last edited by Kamasu_Jr; 01-24-2011 at 10:48 PM.

  23. #23
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    Weren't the Novicks accountants?? Didn't they do the books?

  24. #24
    MissLish Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    Allright, gang. There was no Mafia. One of the great Urban Legends. From what I saw during my seven years under contract, was a company fear of two brothers, the Novicks, who would come in from out of town periodically. I was never quite sure what there role was at Motown, but whatever it was, it was heavy duty. It seemed department heads would worriedly get their s**t together in anticipation of the coming of the brothers. I think it had much to do with the financial health of the company though, and no one was going to end up sleeping with fishes.



    LOLOLOLOL! Thanks for the clarification, Ralph; however, although you were there, I highly doubt the speculators will cease and desist with the speculating.

  25. #25
    MissLish Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr View Post
    I agree. There was a time when the Mafia controlled nightclubs [[THE COPA) and other businesses. Entertainers had to deal with the mob. They couldn't avoid the mob.



    "There was a time.." Baby, they STILL do!

  26. #26
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    Attorney, Harold Noveck and accountant Sidney Noveck......

  27. #27
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    Now who thinks the Mafia can't own or control an accountant and an attorney?

  28. #28
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    not me....accountants are a special breed!!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown View Post
    not me....accountants are a special breed!!
    LOL Better watch out, John, The Mafia is in London. They love guys who crunch numbers and keep the books.

  30. #30

  31. #31
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    Eeeek.....methinks you're right, they CAN control accountants

    lol

  32. #32
    olamaebarto Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    Allright, gang. There was no Mafia. One of the great Urban Legends. From what I saw during my seven years under contract, was a company fear of two brothers, the Novicks, who would come in from out of town periodically. I was never quite sure what there role was at Motown, but whatever it was, it was heavy duty. It seemed department heads would worriedly get their s**t together in anticipation of the coming of the brothers. I think it had much to do with the financial health of the company though, and no one was going to end up sleeping with fishes.
    Interesting.

    But maybe you were TOLD to say this?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by olamaebarto View Post
    Interesting.

    But maybe you were TOLD to say this?
    But he doesn't work for Motown any longer, so he wouldn't have to keep the company honor now.

    I've noticed some people deny the existence of the Mafia or pretend it isn't there.
    For example, a generally sweet Italian woman named, Kaye Moderelli, told my dad not to believe any of the stories about the mob running gambling out of her store. Mind you, she did this as the guys were collecting betting slips in the store's back room where my dad could see them. LOL
    Last edited by Kamasu_Jr; 01-24-2011 at 10:50 PM.

  34. #34
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    If Ralph hasn't been with Motown for like 20 or 30 years, why would he lie? LOL

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralpht View Post
    Allright, gang. There was no Mafia. One of the great Urban Legends.
    Thank you!

  36. #36
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    Er, you mean no Mafia at Motown. BUT it does exist.

  37. #37
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    No it does not! Not like you think.

  38. #38
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    There was a whole national media expose on the mob and the Ohio town where I was born.
    The GOVERNMENT MANAGED TO BREAK SOME OF THE MOB'S CONTROL. But it does still exist. It has been passed down through generations of families AND I know the Mafia has become very sophisticated in how it does some of its business these days. But some things do not change. A Mafia loyalist was elected sheriff and eventually sent to Congress right from the town I was born in. There are tapes of this former sheriff offering to sell his influence and protection to mob families. You can't tell me what I know about the Mafia.
    Last edited by Kamasu_Jr; 01-24-2011 at 07:03 PM.

  39. #39
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    You're giving the mob too much credit if you think it has any power like that nowadays lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    You're giving the mob too much credit if you think it has any power like that nowadays lol
    Explain what you mean?
    Let me tell you about mob power. An Italian, mafia loyalist was elected to sheriff and sent on to Congress WHERE he was eventually indicted for corruption, taking bribes and racketeering. That's a fact. This Goodfellow served time in the federal pen, got out, returned to the northeastern Ohio town that elected him the first time. And last year, he tried to run for his old congressional seat that he'd been kicked out of. It was discovered the mob controlled the political and economic destiny of this Ohio town for years. For decades, the mob often controlled where and which folks got jobs and where they didn't.
    I know some Mafia children turned their backs on their families' business and attended college and opened legitimate businesses. But they were still connected and if there was enough money being made, the mob could still move in and control things.
    I Know of what I say.
    Last edited by Kamasu_Jr; 01-24-2011 at 10:51 PM.

  41. #41
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    Hmm ..

    I thought that some record companies had "mob" connections back in the day .. Calla comes to mind but I could be wrong!

    Have to go now .. its getting late here in London and I need to make sure the doors are securely locked ..

    Roger

  42. #42
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    ......and dont forget to put up the "beware of the dog" sign

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    I think some people may have used the word "Mafia" in connection with Motown in a very loose sense; in the sense of the Noveck Brothers may as well have been the Mafia because they acted like the Mafia; and if Motown or certain divisions were paying out $100,000 and bringing in $50,000, when the Noveck's came to town, the shit hit the fan and heads started to roll. And to many people, that is control in the way the Mafia is said to enforce matters.

    At a bank, the "audit team" will often by referred to as the Mafia or as a bunch of pricks. It's making me wonder what the staff calls me at my office that I don't hear!

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    The mob may not have that much power but they had enough to take care of the Kennedy's.

    The drug cartels now scare me to death. I can barely sleep if I think about them too much.

  45. #45
    smark21 Guest
    How is it that it's the black owned and operated successful record companies like Motown and Stax that are reputed to be the most mobbed up? You don't hear the same level of rumour and hearsay for major white companies like Columbia and RCA. It seems there's a racist double standard at play, as if a Black owned and operated company needed the help of mobsters to succeed.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by smark21 View Post
    How is it that it's the black owned and operated successful record companies like Motown and Stax that are reputed to be the most mobbed up? You don't hear the same level of rumour and hearsay for major white companies like Columbia and RCA. It seems there's a racist double standard at play, as if a Black owned and operated company needed the help of mobsters to succeed.
    Interesting. That is practically what Berry Gordy wrote in his biography. But the Mafia typically picks what it believes is the easiest target to exploit. It's not that these black owned companies needed the mob to succeed. IT IS POSSIBLE, MOTOWN AND STAX COULD HAVE COME UNDER MOB CONTROL BY OTHER MEANS. I admit it is the first time I've heard of the mob allegation at Stax, because Memphis did not and does not have a large Italian [[not meaning to stereotype) population.
    Last edited by Kamasu_Jr; 01-24-2011 at 10:38 PM.

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    The Mafia, "the mob?", the goodfellas, nor Tony Soprano had anything to do with running Motown. That was just some bull someone made up to explain the wildly successful Motown Corporation.

  48. #48
    topdiva1 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MissLish View Post
    Was Paul Williams murdered?

    I believe that could be true.

  49. #49
    topdiva1 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by smark21 View Post
    How is it that it's the black owned and operated successful record companies like Motown and Stax that are reputed to be the most mobbed up? You don't hear the same level of rumour and hearsay for major white companies like Columbia and RCA. It seems there's a racist double standard at play, as if a Black owned and operated company needed the help of mobsters to succeed.

    Child all those companies are mobbed up.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by topdiva1 View Post
    I believe that could be true.
    Whether he was murdered or died by his own hands, what does that have to do with this topic? Lots of people in Detroit have been murdered unfortunately over the years.

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