Mary Wilson solo debut

[blackguy69]

https://youtu.be/CF9eQzhwzNM

I just saw this haven't listened to it yet about to right now

[RanRan79]

Thanks for posting BG! I heard some of this MANY years ago when Youtube first became a thing. The audio wasn't very good and admittedly I was only interested in the Mary and Diana part. Now I finally get to hear it in it's entirety and I think it's pretty good quality.

Criticisms first...Bad move keeping the Supremes such a big part of her solo act. She needed to do what Diana did: an obligatory Supremes medley but everything else is to showcase the emerging soloist. Mary cannot sing most of those Diana and Jean led songs the way they were originally constructed. Mary is a great vocalist but I wouldn't categorize her lead singing voice as melodic. Diana and Jean's voices were very melodic and those songs were tailored to fit that. If I were helping Mary plan this out and she was hellbent on doing those Supremes songs, I would have encouraged her to rearrange some of those hits, like the way "My World Is Empty" is rearranged. Most of the act should have been showcasing songs from her debut album, not traveling down memory lane.

I also understand now why Gordy was so insistent that the stage patter be planned down to the letter when the Supremes were rehearsing for the first Copa appearance. Flo could go off script and it was gold. Mary doing all this ad lib talking during and between songs sounds clumsy. That aint her thing.

Now to the good part...This show solidifies to me that with the right person guiding her, Mary Wilson could have been a successful recording artist after the Supremes. She just needed someone to believe in her and her talent and help her make good decisions. She sounds absolutely fantastic on "Everybody Gets to Go to the Moon" and I'm surprised at how well "Midnight Dancer" comes across live. I really like the live version, so much so that I'm going to revisit the recorded version and see if I can hear it with new ears. She never disappoints with "The Way We Were". I'm not a big fan of the song on it's own, but I like/love a few renditions that I've heard [[and Striesand's isn't one of them). Mary's version of the song is actually my favorite.

Also, the Supremes background medley was genius. She should have left the Supremes thing at that.

All in all, Mary gave it a good shot. And since this was the first performance I have to imagine that over the years her set just got better. It's such a shame that Motown refused to get behind her after all of the years she spent making them money. Mary could've done some great stuff.

[luke]

Good to see. We recently discussed this and someone posted the set list. Pic of her and Diana is nice.

[lakeside]

Who was doing the back up's? Who was the announcer....who sounded rather 'compromised'?

[marv2]

Who was doing the back up's? Who was the announcer....who sounded rather 'compromised'?

Karen Jackson and Gloria Jones were on backup. I don't remember the announcer.

[lakeside]

Karen Jackson and Gloria Jones were on backup. I don't remember the announcer.

Thanks, Marv. Is that THE Gloria Jones who has
recorded several solo albums?

[Thornton]

Thanks for sharing! I haven't listened to this show in years, and forgot that Mary sang "You're My Driving Wheel" with the "Sweet Dream Machine" intro. The performance is actually stronger than I remember, and think that perhaps Mary was just a little nervous. It does sound like a good audience though.

[detmotownguy]

Thanks for sharing! I haven't listened to this show in years, and forgot that Mary sang "You're My Driving Wheel" with the "Sweet Dream Machine" intro. The performance is actually stronger than I remember, and think that perhaps Mary was just a little nervous. It does sound like a good audience though.

yeah it does sounds better than when I first heard the recording. So cool Diana was there. Fantastic, made my day.

[Circa 1824]

I said it before and I will say it again ... We all can talk, and few of us have wonderfully beautiful speaking voices. But, most do not.

Very few people can hit musical notes and sound beautiful, but most hit notes and sound blah. Please meet Mary Blah.

[PeaceNHarmony]

'Everybody ...' again? And 'Corner ... ' ? Oh no she didn't. Owww! Wo-whee! Well, she does try.

[marv2]

'Everybody ...' again? And 'Corner ... ' ? Oh no she didn't. Owww! Wo-whee! Well, she does try.

At least no one had to tear $20 bills in half to encourage strangers on the street to attend her debut show............

[luke]

And people complain about Diana bashing! Lolol[[and of course none of them complain when Mary gets it! Sooo transparent )

[marv2]

And people complain about Diana bashing! Lolol[[and of course none of them complain when Mary gets it! Sooo transparent )

The same people never say a word when one of their buddies bash Mary Wilson.

[antceleb12]

Thanks for posting BG! I heard some of this MANY years ago when Youtube first became a thing. The audio wasn't very good and admittedly I was only interested in the Mary and Diana part. Now I finally get to hear it in it's entirety and I think it's pretty good quality.

Criticisms first...Bad move keeping the Supremes such a big part of her solo act. She needed to do what Diana did: an obligatory Supremes medley but everything else is to showcase the emerging soloist. Mary cannot sing most of those Diana and Jean led songs the way they were originally constructed. Mary is a great vocalist but I wouldn't categorize her lead singing voice as melodic. Diana and Jean's voices were very melodic and those songs were tailored to fit that. If I were helping Mary plan this out and she was hellbent on doing those Supremes songs, I would have encouraged her to rearrange some of those hits, like the way "My World Is Empty" is rearranged. Most of the act should have been showcasing songs from her debut album, not traveling down memory lane.

I also understand now why Gordy was so insistent that the stage patter be planned down to the letter when the Supremes were rehearsing for the first Copa appearance. Flo could go off script and it was gold. Mary doing all this ad lib talking during and between songs sounds clumsy. That aint her thing.

Now to the good part...This show solidifies to me that with the right person guiding her, Mary Wilson could have been a successful recording artist after the Supremes. She just needed someone to believe in her and her talent and help her make good decisions. She sounds absolutely fantastic on "Everybody Gets to Go to the Moon" and I'm surprised at how well "Midnight Dancer" comes across live. I really like the live version, so much so that I'm going to revisit the recorded version and see if I can hear it with new ears. She never disappoints with "The Way We Were". I'm not a big fan of the song on it's own, but I like/love a few renditions that I've heard [[and Striesand's isn't one of them). Mary's version of the song is actually my favorite.

Also, the Supremes background medley was genius. She should have left the Supremes thing at that.

All in all, Mary gave it a good shot. And since this was the first performance I have to imagine that over the years her set just got better. It's such a shame that Motown refused to get behind her after all of the years she spent making them money. Mary could've done some great stuff.

Solid review. That's about what I feel. I always felt in unfair that Berry told her she couldn't sing because there were always nuggets there that made her SHIMMER, and she could have gone so much farther had she had the right encouragement - or had she not smoked so damn much...

I also agree about the 'Supremes backups' medley. Absolutely genius and comic gold. I also agree she really should have strayed from so much Supremes material, but considering her confidence as a solo artist was next to nill and the past two decades had been nothing but Supremes, I can see where the temptation would be to stay in the comfort zone.

[rod_rick]

Solid review. That's about what I feel. I always felt in unfair that Berry told her she couldn't sing because there were always nuggets there that made her SHIMMER, and she could have gone so much farther had she had the right encouragement - or had she not smoked so damn much...

I also agree about the 'Supremes backups' medley. Absolutely genius and comic gold. I also agree she really should have strayed from so much Supremes material, but considering her confidence as a solo artist was next to nill and the past two decades had been nothing but Supremes, I can see where the temptation would be to stay in the comfort zone.

I also think money had a lot to do with Mary's show. All the supremes stuff she did, she already had the charts, so that was money she didn't have to spend getting new musical charts created for new songs.
My dream would be to have Diana & Mary sing "My World Is Empty Without you as a duet. They both currently sing it very well in their live act.

[marv2]

Thanks, Marv. Is that THE Gloria Jones who has
recorded several solo albums?

Yes it is the same lady.

[Ozmo]

[QUOTE=luke;398761]And people complain about Diana bashing! Lolol[[and of course none of them complain when Mary gets it! Sooo transparent )[/QUOTE

Yes, I have noticed the same double standards applied. Yet in a weird way it is a compliment to Mary as she commands such attention with even her detractors that rather than ignore them, they seem compelled to read every posting relating to her and respond. The Diana/Mary fans are a passionate bunch!!

[thanxal]

https://youtu.be/CF9eQzhwzNM

I just saw this haven't listened to it yet about to right now

Thanks for finding and posting this. These type of things get harder and harder to find as the years pass.

[luke]

Her name is Gloria Scott.

[marv2]

Her name is Gloria Scott.

That's right Luke. Thanks.

[luke]

No problem Marv. I think she and Karen did a great job!

[marv2]

Thanks, Marv. Is that THE Gloria Jones who has
recorded several solo albums?

Lakeside, I'm sorry I was having an almost senior moment LOL! Mary's background singer was Gloria Scott, along long time back up Karen Jackson

[RanRan79]

And people complain about Diana bashing! Lolol[[and of course none of them complain when Mary gets it! Sooo transparent )

I've noticed that too, in regards to people complaining about Mary bashing but not Diana bashing. I guess the transparency works both ways. I guess it all comes down to who you like and who you don't. And it's always the same folks doing the bashing and claiming they don't bash. Go figure.

[RanRan79]

Solid review. That's about what I feel. I always felt in unfair that Berry told her she couldn't sing because there were always nuggets there that made her SHIMMER, and she could have gone so much farther had she had the right encouragement - or had she not smoked so damn much...

I also agree about the 'Supremes backups' medley. Absolutely genius and comic gold. I also agree she really should have strayed from so much Supremes material, but considering her confidence as a solo artist was next to nill and the past two decades had been nothing but Supremes, I can see where the temptation would be to stay in the comfort zone.

I think Mary may have had some confidence issues even before Gordy made his comment. So if he said what he said and was actually joking, an insecure young lady like Mary may have internalized it and taken it seriously, thus knocking her confidence level even more. But lets not forget that Gordy was no dummy and I think he had a good read on his artists' weaknesses, so he may have zeroed in on Mary's confidence issues and said what he said in the hopes that it would tap into her insecurities. I think what Gordy wrote in his book probably was the truth: it was Mary who was always trying to keep up with Diana. If Gordy could control Mary with her insecurity about being a good singer, he could keep her from derailing his plans for Diana. Which of course was something he couldn't do with Florence because above all else, Flo knew she could sing and you weren't going to convince her otherwise.

You're right about the Supremes being Mary's comfort zone. That probably was the number one reason for such a Supremes heavy song lineup at her debut.

[lakeside]

Lakeside, I'm sorry I was having an almost senior moment LOL! Mary's background singer was Gloria Scott, along long time back up Karen Jackson

That's right, Marv, Gloria Scott. I even have the CD
'What Am I Gonna Do' signed by her! By the way....my
'senior moments' last for hours anymore!

[marv2]

That's right, Marv, Gloria Scott. I even have the CD
'What Am I Gonna Do' signed by her! By the way....my
'senior moments' last for hours anymore!

thanks Lakeside. Gloria is one of the few of Mary's singers I have not met or seen perform live. There are clips of her performing with Mary however on Youtube.

[luke]

I'm pretty sure Berry also said Diana was trying to keep up with Mary...it went back and forth.

[luke]

Mary and Gloria sure look similar! Like New Ways back pic.

[marv2]

Mary and Gloria sure look similar! Like New Ways back pic.

Except when they're standing side by side. LOL

Attachment 13290

[luke]

True. It was that particular pic..the eyes and fro!

[RanRan79]

I'm pretty sure Berry also said Diana was trying to keep up with Mary...it went back and forth.

I think you're right Luke.

[luke]

I was surprised when I read that. I'd figured he'd say It was Flo who she was trying to keep up with!

[TheMotownManiac]

OMG!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! I've heard snips & clips but never the entire show - and, even after comments by buds who were there, it's still way beyond my expectations - and I was expecting a lot. Mary is CLEARLY reaDY for solo career....... I have a few quibbles, but they are not worth even bringing up in such a tremendous review. Wow..wow....wow!!!!!!!!!

https://youtu.be/CF9eQzhwzNM

I just saw this haven't listened to it yet about to right now

[Weslley Francisco]

Cover Art made by me

[marv2]

Very nice Weslley

[Bluebrock]

That's right, Marv, Gloria Scott. I even have the CD
'What Am I Gonna Do' signed by her! By the way....my
'senior moments' last for hours anymore!

I also have this cd. Gloria Scott was a fine vocalist who deserved more success than she ever had. Well worth checking out.

[marv2]

Here is a copy of the original concert poster for Mary Wilson's solo debut:

Attachment 13296

[marv2]

Here Gloria Scott is performing with Mary. She is to the left of Mary:

[RanRan79]

I also have this cd. Gloria Scott was a fine vocalist who deserved more success than she ever had. Well worth checking out.

Her album is one of my favorites. One of those albums I can listen to without skipping a track.

[marv2]

Her album is one of my favorites. One of those albums I can listen to without skipping a track.

Mary has always had great background singers in her act.

[Bluebrock]

Her album is one of my favorites. One of those albums I can listen to without skipping a track.

I agree, and talking about it here has made me want to did it out again. Very solid album from start to finish and well worth picking up if anyone is considering purchasing it. Decent price too.

[LoveSupreme]

Her voice does nothing for me. Nice try though, I guess. Thanks for sharing.

[BayouMotownMan]

I remember when it was announced that Motown was issuing Mary's first solo lp in the summer of 1979, I think we fans knew that this was not going to go far. Same was true for Scherrie and Susaye. Motown did so little for the group so why bother with solo lps?

Everything about this was wrong for Mary from the start of this solo break. Mary's strong suit were ballads. So why give her a disco lp? Trying to re-launch Mary as a disco artist was truly uninspired. For starters, she was nearing her 40th year, secondly, everybody that signed to the label was being promoted as disco artists. The Motown sound was long dead and the company jumped on the disco bandwagon instead of trying to launch innovative music as it did in the sixties.

When I heard the lp I liked every song but Red Hot, which was simply too frenetic. And there was only one ballad, and a good one. I think if the company was serious about Mary they'd have teamed her with Ron Miller or Michael Masser. I can hear Mary singing the songs Charlene sang [[I've Never Been To Me). Hal Davis did well with the budget given him, but the music supplied here was already on its way out. Disco was all but dead.

Motown fronted Mary no money for a new stage act. So she goes out with the old Supremes show, only adding three songs from her new lp. Opening night in NY for Mary was sold out...but that was largely due to the rumor that Ross would be there. The critics were not kind to Mary. Attendance quickly dropped off and fans were commenting on the old, dated Supremes gowns being back in the show.

Mary did the best she could with what was given her; essentially nothing. But long before Motown dropped her, I think most of us knew it was coming.

[LoveSupreme]

I remember when it was announced that Motown was issuing Mary's first solo lp in the summer of 1979, I think we fans knew that this was not going to go far. Same was true for Scherrie and Susaye. Motown did so little for the group so why bother with solo lps?

Everything about this was wrong for Mary from the start of this solo break. Mary's strong suit were ballads. So why give her a disco lp? Trying to re-launch Mary as a disco artist was truly uninspired. For starters, she was nearing her 40th year, secondly, everybody that signed to the label was being promoted as disco artists. The Motown sound was long dead and the company jumped on the disco bandwagon instead of trying to launch innovative music as it did in the sixties.

When I heard the lp I liked every song but Red Hot, which was simply too frenetic. And there was only one ballad, and a good one. I think if the company was serious about Mary they'd have teamed her with Ron Miller or Michael Masser. I can hear Mary singing the songs Charlene sang [[I've Never Been To Me). Hal Davis did well with the budget given him, but the music supplied here was already on its way out. Disco was all but dead.

Motown fronted Mary no money for a new stage act. So she goes out with the old Supremes show, only adding three songs from her new lp. Opening night in NY for Mary was sold out...but that was largely due to the rumor that Ross would be there. The critics were not kind to Mary. Attendance quickly dropped off and fans were commenting on the old, dated Supremes gowns being back in the show.

Mary did the best she could with what was given her; essentially nothing. But long before Motown dropped her, I think most of us knew it was coming.

Aside from a few charted singles, "Up The Ladder To The Roof" and "Stoned Love" being their two biggest, I feel the post-Diana Supremes were essentially a non-starter.

The group had massive turn around in the remaining 7 years they would go on to exist, what with Cindy leaving to be replaced by Lynda and then Jean leaving to be replaced by Sherri, only to have Lynda leave to be replaced by....Cindy and then Cindy exiting again only to be replaces by Susaye? Honestly, who could keep up at that point - - - then you add the fact that they continued to perform in gowns from the mid to late 60s that by the mid 70s were relics and out of fashion. It was just weird to see Mary, Susaye and Sherri on television in Bob Mackie gowns that were created for the 1969 television special, "G.I.T. On Broadway"...it got weird.

And then for Mary to continue to use those old gowns in her solo act. It must have been amusing for Diana to see Mary traipsing around in those old gowns. It must have been like watching one of those old movies where the faded star is living in the faded past wearing relics from the past.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Aside from a few charted singles, "Up The Ladder To The Roof" and "Stoned Love" being their two biggest, I feel the post-Diana Supremes were essentially a non-starter.

The group had massive turn around in the remaining 7 years they would go on to exist, what with Cindy leaving to be replaced by Lynda and then Jean leaving to be replaced by Sherri, only to have Lynda leave to be replaced by....Cindy and then Cindy exiting again only to be replaces by Susaye? Honestly, who could keep up at that point - - - then you add the fact that they continued to perform in gowns from the mid to late 60s that by the mid 70s were relics and out of fashion. It was just weird to see Mary, Susaye and Sherri on television in Bob Mackie gowns that were created for the 1969 television special, "G.I.T. On Broadway"...it got weird.

And then for Mary to continue to use those old gowns in her solo act. It must have been amusing for Diana to see Mary traipsing around in those old gowns. It must have been like watching one of those old movies where the faded star is living in the faded past wearing relics from the past.

Tina Turner was also cash-strapped in her early years but was on good terms with Mackie and would get one new costume so she would not be dated.

[RanRan79]

I agree with you Bayou. The whole thing was just wrong. Motown did Mary dirty. They knew this project was going to be a failure from the jump. When you want an artist to succeed, you structure everything around their talents. Mary was fantastic as a ballad singer. Nothing about her voice says disco. It's a shame really. I still say with Motown's backing, the three original Supremes all should have been able to walk into successful solo careers.

[RanRan79]

It must have been amusing for Diana to see Mary traipsing around in those old gowns.

Do you think she was that petty? Because I don't. I don't think any of Mary's struggles were amusing to Diana. She had her own great thing going. Why would she relish in the struggles of her former singing partners?

[thanxal]

Do you think she was that petty? Because I don't. I don't think any of Mary's struggles were amusing to Diana. She had her own great thing going. Why would she relish in the struggles of her former singing partners?

You're correct again.

[BayouMotownMan]

No, Diana Ross wanted success for Mary but not so much for the Supremes. After all, she was competitive and how would it look that she left the group and they eclipsed her? And for two years they did, BG dealt with that in his new play

[marv2]

More than 30 years later "Red Hot" is still being remixed.......