"Going Down for the Third Time"- oh, no, not again

[jobucats]

Yes, I know this song has been marinated, iced, boiled, microwaved, scrambled, etc. so many times in this forum, however, I was coming with another idea [[unless this, too, has been covered).

I have always loved the recording [[stereo and mono) versions, and as others have stated, wondered why it was never released as a single or even hardly showed up on as many compilations as so many of the other 'b sides/songs.'

Upon listening to it again, however, I don't feel that forward punch [[compression) aurally as in the other singles that were released. Also, it sounds more like a west coast Motown production as opposed to the snakepit sound. Even before the GoGo liner notes were released, I had picked up that sound on many of the tracks of the Go Go album. Not an indictment; just an observation.

I wonder if anyone has done an edit of "Going Down for the Third Time" in an effort to mimic the sound that was used for the singles that were being released at that time using elements like compression, equalization, etc. I bet an even more awesome and 'killer' track could be made!

[marv2]

I just think that Motown had a ton of releases out there, all the time in the mid 60s, especially by the Supremes that they just couldn't flood the market any further and expect the results Mr. Gordy wanted for each release. This was a fine record, but had too much to compete with coming out of those Quality Control meetings.

[BayouMotownMan]

I just think that Motown had a ton of releases out there, all the time in the mid 60s, especially by the Supremes that they just couldn't flood the market any further and expect the results Mr. Gordy wanted for each release. This was a fine record, but had too much to compete with coming out of those Quality Control meetings.

It's a good song, definitely a Funk Bros. track. I just don't think Ross's voice fit this scorcher. She is known for sweet soul [[Baby Love, Love Is Here) and this required a harder edged vocal, like maybe Marvin, Martha or especially Levi

[arr&bee]

I like this song,not a killer track but kinda cute.

[reese]

I always loved this recording, but I don't like the mono version. On it, Diana's vocals sounds muffled.

[TomatoTom123]

I love this song! Diana is fierce-sounding!! An great uptempo number from H-D-H.

[honest man]

A Classic tracK from DRATS Nobody could do it justice like they did it as Tom says they sound so fierce and soulful,if Vandellas 4 tops GKATP [Maybe] etc had covered it great, it would have been another motown track BUT Because it was so unlike most DRATS Songs thats what makes it so beautiful unique one of the best DRATS-MOTOWN songs ever,cheers.

[vgalindo]

A Classic tracK from DRATS Nobody could do it justice like they did it as Tom says they sound so fierce and soulful,if Vandellas 4 tops GKATP [Maybe] etc had covered it great, it would have been another motown track BUT Because it was so unlike most DRATS Songs thats what makes it so beautiful unique one of the best DRATS-MOTOWN songs ever,cheers.

Yes. Diana Ross killed this song. One of my favorite Spremes songs.

[luke]

I didn't know Diana had it in her!! I think Flo could have killed it too. And agree with jobucats...just needed a little something more musically..great suggestion!!

[daviddh]

loved it. I would have released it in place of livin In Shame....The Compsoser

[marv2]

loved it. I would have released it in place of livin In Shame....The Compsoser

They couldn't do that because those recordings were years apart.

[johnjeb]

loved it. I would have released it in place of livin In Shame....The Compsoser

It certainly would have been a better option and probably would have charted better than any of the singles released after "Reflections", with the exception of "Love Child" and "Someday", of course.

[brothadc]

Just like Tracy told Brian [[in Mahogany) "This is my world you're looking at now!" I say that to say I have absolutely loved "Going Down For The Third Time" since the first moment I heard it, and I love it more to this day! This one, and "Love Is In Our Hearts" [[the stereo mix) are my top two favorite Supremes songs, and of course with The Supremes it's just the top two of many many favorites.

["I didn't know Diana had it in her!!] What??!! Where have you been? Let me tell you somethin', there's no way that Florence, or Mary for that matter, could have done the song the same justice Diana did for it, mainly for two reasons. Although both Florence and Mary had beautiful voices, it is the unique sound of Diana's voice that is just so engaging and enigmatic, especially when recorded. Add to that, Diana could caress, interpret, and bring a lyric to life like nobody's business!

When I listen to "Going Down For The Third Time" I can't help but visualize a dark stormy night, waves crashing, thunder and lightening, and her, the poor little thing, out there far away from the shore trying to keep her head above water, and I can fell the distress of her desperately wanting to be saved. When she sings "Reach out your hand for me..." I see her in that scene from her video "Swept Away" as she's going down in the water. I see and feel all of that from her reading and interpretation of the lyrics.

When I listen to "Love Is In Our Hearts" first I saw a beautiful park, at night, gently lit by the lights at the top of tall lamp poles and the twinkling stars in the sky. I see a young couple walking on the sidewalk path that's cut in the middle of the greenest grass, and from the sweetness in the sound and tone of Diana's voice I can feel the warmth and joy emanating from the two of them. When she sings "our kiss stole in the dark" it's as if I can see the little cartoon red hearts surronding the two of them! As she sings "When he looks into my eyes", it is absolutely brilliant the way she softly, but solidly attacks the word "eyes". She doesn't lazily carry over the "y" from the word my, making it "my [[y)eyes", which to me seems to make all the difference in regards to making the point of where he was looking. It's those subtle nuances like that which to makes the difference between someone simply singing the lyrics, as opposed to someone delivering and intuitive interpretive reading of the lyrics.

I prefer the vocal take on the stereo mix, one because I love stereo, but mainly because to me that performance feels like she's more relaxed, comfortable and more familiar with the song, and was able to go deeper into interpreting the lyric. There's a bit more sweetness in her voice on that take which contributes to generating the feeling of that "Love" which is in their hearts. The rhythmic flow of her delivery is a bit more syncopated and soulful, and I love how she wraps up the first two stanzas of the verse after the bridge with "Love Is In Our Hearts", which she doesn't do on the vocal take of the mono mix.

As far as Diana "having it in her", there's that same aggressive performance in her delivery of "There's No Stopping Us Now", brilliant! You can't help but feel that she and her man are now winning, will forever be winning, and that's that! And as far as caressing a lyric is concerned, the way she applies sweetness to "The precious hours..." and then cranks it up to so convincingly conveying "...we'll never regain!" The girl was a master at bringing a lyric to life. As wonderful as they were, I never felt that level of reading and interpreting from Florence or Mary, so I have to respectfully disagree with "Flo could have killed it too", naw naw, wasn't gonna happen.

[RanRan79]

It's a good song, definitely a Funk Bros. track. I just don't think Ross's voice fit this scorcher. She is known for sweet soul [[Baby Love, Love Is Here) and this required a harder edged vocal, like maybe Marvin, Martha or especially Levi

I think Diana's voice was made for "sweet soul", but what I love about her voice is that she is able to sing just about anything and seem so comfortable doing it. "Let Me Go the Right Way", "Run, Run Run", "Love Is Like An Itching"...I would put "Going Down" in that same category. The girl was bad. With that being said, "Going Down" is one of the few Supremes originals that I think Martha and the Vandellas would have done a worthy cover of.

[RanRan79]

I think Flo could have killed it too.

Absolutely. Something like this would have been right up her alley.

[RanRan79]

The girl was a master at bringing a lyric to life. As wonderful as they were, I never felt that level of reading and interpreting from Florence or Mary, so I have to respectfully disagree with "Flo could have killed it too", naw naw, wasn't gonna happen.

Diana is among the best lyrical interpreters and I think that's why she's so adept at covering so many different musical genres. IMO Flo and Mary weren't as skilled as she was at that particular aspect of singing. But if HDH had handed Florence the lead to "Going Down" she would have murdered it. That girl could sing her ass off when given a chance. I love the group's versions of "People", "Silent Night" and "Oh Holy Night", but I wish Flo had been allowed leads where she could really let go in that Motown way during that period of time. Dare I say her lead singing talents were wasted on those type of songs. Or rather on those style of songs.

[johnjeb]

..."Going Down" is one of the few Supremes originals that I think Martha and the Vandellas would have done a worthy cover of.

I may be mistaken but, I thought I once read that HDH stated that their intention was to give this song to Martha but they were very happy with the results they got from Diana. I wonder if HDH had remained with Motown if they would have recorded this with Martha.

[MrBlues]

The Supremes Sing Holland Dozier Holland LP really was an exciting collection in 1967. To we teenagers it didn't seem like a bunch of left-overs from the A Go Go sessions as some commentators have described it since. It contained two number one singles and their excellent flip sides, three songs by fellow Motown artists and five new tracks, one of which was Going Down for the Third Time. I remember at the time thinking that this track was a duet between Diana and Flo. Later I was amazed to hear the extra voices on one of the stereo versions which to me indicates that HDH were experimenting with this track possibly with a view to it being a single. My school friends and I all loved this track as well as I'll Turn to Stone and There's No Stopping Us Now. The only 'dud' in a sense was Always in my Heart which to us in 1967 was a historical track.

[Circa 1824]

I'll forgive your lies and alibis if you'll wipe my drying eyes."

"I am like a ship all alone on a raging sea."

[johnjeb]

The Supremes Sing Holland Dozier Holland LP really was an exciting collection in 1967. To we teenagers it didn't seem like a bunch of left-overs from the A Go Go sessions as some commentators have described it since. It contained two number one singles and their excellent flip sides, three songs by fellow Motown artists and five new tracks, one of which was Going Down for the Third Time. I remember at the time thinking that this track was a duet between Diana and Flo. Later I was amazed to hear the extra voices on one of the stereo versions which to me indicates that HDH were experimenting with this track possibly with a view to it being a single. My school friends and I all loved this track as well as I'll Turn to Stone and There's No Stopping Us Now. The only 'dud' in a sense was Always in my Heart which to us in 1967 was a historical track.

I had the opposite reaction to the HDH album when it was released.

I was also a teenager at the time, a senior in high school. I was disappointed that Sing HDH included more Motown covers. I loved A' Go-Go but wasn't impressed with the Motown covers on Sing HDH. I felt that Motown was just trying to throw an album together.

The four songs from the two singles are excellent as are Going Down and Mother You but the rest of the songs did not excite me. I felt that this album didn't have the coherency and strength, in my opinion, of A' Go-Go, More Hits or WDOLG. It was more similar to the miscellaneous-tracks approach of Symphony.

I had the more satisfying original versions of the Motown covers. Although I'll Turn To Stone on Sing HDH is the original, I had it on the Four Tops LIVE! album which was released before Sing HDH and is more enjoyable.

Of course in recent years I learned that the release of this album was an attempt to appease HDH's festering dissatisfaction with Motown. And also that some of these Motown covers were indeed leftovers from A' Go-Go, rather than new recordings for this album. I had Always In My Heart on a single so I knew that certainly was a leftover.

I also hated the album cover. I felt the two-tone cover and the album title taking-up almost the whole upper half gave the appearance of a budget release or a rush release.

In another thread there is a discussion of Supremes album covers and who is pictured more prominently. Having not originally liked this cover I now think it is a clever cover. Is your eye drawn to Mary in the middle, or Diana off to the left, or to Florence on the right whose smile and coquettish pose is different than the poses of Mary and Diana? I don't think this same ambiguity could have been achieved if they had used the full-length shot of this pose. I appreciate the cover now.

Of course I am looking forward to the Expanded Edition of Sing HDH. Not as enthusiastically as I was for A' Go-Go which turned out better than I had imagined. So Sing HDH just might surprise me. Maybe there's an alternate to Going Down.

[huntergettingcaptured]

In another thread there is a discussion of Supremes album covers and who is pictured more prominently. Having not originally liked this cover I now think it is a clever cover. Is your eye drawn to Mary in the middle, or Diana off to the left, or to Florence on the right whose smile and coquettish pose is different than the poses of Mary and Diana? I don't think this same ambiguity could have been achieved if they had used the full-length shot of this pose. I appreciate the cover now.

I really thought I was the only one with these thoughts about this cover. That is the one reason I did like the cover was because of that photo. It was just so stark and dramatic. I remember just studying that picture over and over. For me, it was Florence that got my eye. I really, REALLY could never had said it better than you did about that smile and pose. Diana and Mary had very introspective appearances, but Florence threw you off balance. She had a sort of Mona Lisa smile going and a sort of look as if she were sharing a wink and grin with just you and herself. She always had my attention and this cover is my favorite as far as Florence.

[biggestfourtops fan]

There's No Stopping Us Now is a great original one too.

[mowsville]

Is the mono version of "Love Is In Our Hearts" available on cd.

[RanRan79]

I may be mistaken but, I thought I once read that HDH stated that their intention was to give this song to Martha but they were very happy with the results they got from Diana. I wonder if HDH had remained with Motown if they would have recorded this with Martha.

I once read that Martha and the Vandellas did record a version of it, but whether or not that is true I don't know.

[RanRan79]

The Supremes Sing Holland Dozier Holland LP really was an exciting collection in 1967. To we teenagers it didn't seem like a bunch of left-overs from the A Go Go sessions as some commentators have described it since. It contained two number one singles and their excellent flip sides, three songs by fellow Motown artists and five new tracks, one of which was Going Down for the Third Time. I remember at the time thinking that this track was a duet between Diana and Flo. Later I was amazed to hear the extra voices on one of the stereo versions which to me indicates that HDH were experimenting with this track possibly with a view to it being a single. My school friends and I all loved this track as well as I'll Turn to Stone and There's No Stopping Us Now. The only 'dud' in a sense was Always in my Heart which to us in 1967 was a historical track.

With the exceptions of "It's the Same Old Song" and "Heat Wave", I love every cut on Sing HDH. Even though "Always In My Heart" is clearly an older cut, I think it fits in nicely with the rest of the songs.

[RanRan79]

I love the Sing HDH album cover. Johnjeb your description of it is spot on.

[Jaap]

Interestingly, The Supremes Sing HDH contains two non-single Supremes originals that have been covered. Phoebe Snow's Going Down For The Third Time and Elvis Costello's Remove This Doubt.

[daviddh]

I think this was a great lp. one of my favorite of theirs. I just don't really like their version of Heatwave and Same Old Song. they both seem watered down. how can these ladies rock out YKMHO but the producers still use these 2 songs. nope. not for me. I would have used other songs that were left over elsewhere.
also, Put Yourself In My Place was considered for a single after Florence left the group. so to me yes I would have considered Going Down as a single instead of the syrupy stuff that came much later

[johnjeb]

I really thought I was the only one with these thoughts about this cover. That is the one reason I did like the cover was because of that photo. It was just so stark and dramatic. I remember just studying that picture over and over. For me, it was Florence that got my eye. I really, REALLY could never had said it better than you did about that smile and pose. Diana and Mary had very introspective appearances, but Florence threw you off balance. She had a sort of Mona Lisa smile going and a sort of look as if she were sharing a wink and grin with just you and herself. She always had my attention and this cover is my favorite as far as Florence.

You describe their poses perfectly referring to Florence's "Mona Lisa smile" and Diana and Mary's expressions as "introspective".

This album is Motown 650. There is a reference in Don Waller's "The Motwn Story" to an unreleased album: Motown 648 - Pure Gold. I've often wondered if this cover was originally designed for that album or just a coincidence.

[johnjeb]

I think this was a great lp. one of my favorite of theirs. I just don't really like their version of Heatwave and Same Old Song. they both seem watered down. how can these ladies rock out YKMHO but the producers still use these 2 songs. nope. not for me. I would have used other songs that were left over elsewhere.
also, Put Yourself In My Place was considered for a single after Florence left the group. so to me yes I would have considered Going Down as a single instead of the syrupy stuff that came much later

I think this album needed a strong Side 1, similar to WDOLG and More Hits, and the weaker covers and ballads relegated to Side 2.

Keeping the same song selection I would have gone with:
Side 1
You Keep Me Hangin' On, Going Down For The Third Time, Love Is Here And Now You're Gone, There's No Stopping Us Now, Mother You Smother You, I Guess I'll Always Love You
Side 2
Remove This Doubt, I'll Turn To Stone, It's The Same Old Song, Love Is Like A Heatwave, Love Is In Our Hearts, Always In My Heart

[daviddh]

perhaps with the upcoming expanded SING HDH we may get some more gems and those Kevin Reeves mixes.

[daviddh]

I would have replaced Heatwave and Same Old... with Come On And See Me and Misery Makes Its Home In My Heart , that were leftovers from Go Go

[huntergettingcaptured]

This album is Motown 650. There is a reference in Don Waller's "The Motwn Story" to an unreleased album: Motown 648 - Pure Gold. I've often wondered if this cover was originally designed for that album or just a coincidence.

Good question! Wouldn't it be great to know what the track listing would have been too! Maybe one day, the album slick will show up on ebay- there was one a couple years ago for a proposed Four Tops album "Soulfully Yours", so who knows?

[huntergettingcaptured]

I think this was a great lp. one of my favorite of theirs. I just don't really like their version of Heatwave and Same Old Song. they both seem watered down. how can these ladies rock out YKMHO but the producers still use these 2 songs. nope. not for me. I would have used other songs that were left over elsewhere.
also, Put Yourself In My Place was considered for a single after Florence left the group. so to me yes I would have considered Going Down as a single instead of the syrupy stuff that came much later

OK, you spoke my mind for me. Heatwave and Same Old Song always sounded like an updated version of what Motown used to do in the early days with their "Motown Quickie" albums like "The Marvelettes Sing Hits of '62", "Heatwave" and "The Temptations Sing Smokey" where much of the material was so quickly recorded with sparse instrumentation and vocals that sounded like fast run-throughs. Your choices of "Come On And See Me" and "Misery" are excellent choices. "Come On" even sounded a lot like an H-D-H production. The more vaulted material that comes out, the more I wonder why such strong songs couldn't have made it onto some of these albums.

[huntergettingcaptured]

Upon listening to it again, however, I don't feel that forward punch [[compression) aurally as in the other singles that were released...

I wonder if anyone has done an edit of "Going Down for the Third Time" in an effort to mimic the sound that was used for the singles that were being released at that time using elements like compression, equalization, etc. I bet an even more awesome and 'killer' track could be made!

There are things that for year I wondered about and would have loved to discuss with someone else, but I was pretty much alone in my Motown fandom. You hit on something I always felt about this song. I loved it, thought it was great, but like you said so perfectly, it just didn't have that forward punch- there was some kind of spark missing. I wanted, WANTED to really get into it, and even though I like it, it just never excited me and I always wondered what the hell was wrong with me, lol. So, O.K. I'm not alone!

Maybe in the vaults there is one of those mixes like your described. I had the same feeling for "Misery Makes My Heart Its Home" until I recently got a mono mix of the album. WOW! The mono mix of this song makes all the difference. The drums have that Motown stamp all over them and really pop out of the record. The sound is larger and has more punch. Let's hope maybe another mix of "Going Down for the Third Time" will surface one day.

[franjoy56]

I heard gdfttt on t hdh in jan 67. Diana and flo coming from behind very prominently rock this track. Flo could have been great on lead. Her voice was suited for the lead very r&b and that was her forte shes rocking t bkgd.diana was no wallflower she tackled that song w no trouble she was more than a pop singer but motown kept her in pop.she could soul a song and that lead is hers. One of t best tracks ever recorded as a b side.