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  1. #51
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    Yeah....it kind of bellowed out when I heard it on the radio from a 45.....usually from tinny transistor radio speakers.

    When I played the album [[admittedly it was only in mono in my days) it sounded like I was listing to it under the bed covers.

    The UK didn't get More Hits in stereo - I had to get a US copy and we all know how expensive they were!

  2. #52
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    Those qualities should have led the single to be a bigger hit then, right???

    I think the public just had a minor OD on the Supremes at that moment because those heavier rhythm songs of the Supremes have really stood up better than those major hits, Baby Love and Where Did Our Love Go. But, when you go see Diana in concert, the huge response is definitely to Baby Love, Stop in the Name of Love and Where Did Our Love Go and there definitely is no Nothing But Heartaches; but she does do a lengthy My World Is Empty Without You.

  3. #53
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    Rob

    When I wrote under the bed covers....for you, replace it with......snowed under!

  4. #54
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    I don't believe Nothing But Heartaches was #11 because it was any less than the other songs the Supremes put out. I always felt that if it had come out a few weeks earlier or later, it would have been a bigger hit. Here's why. Look at the top 10 the week it stalled at #11:
    #1: Help
    #2: Like A Rolling Stone
    #3 California Girls
    #4 Unchained Melody
    #5 It’s The Same Old Song
    #6 I Got You Babe
    #7 You Were On My Mind
    #8 Papa’s Got A Brand New Bag
    #9 Eve Of Destruction
    #10 Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me!

    These songs are all mega-classics!

  5. #55
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    Good point Andy; I do feel Nothing But Heartaches was a better song than It's The Same Old Song. But Same Old Song for me is like Baby Love; I've had it a few too many times.

    John, do you have any idea how good the sound quality can be in an Igloo? I will try and reduce the size of one of my snow pictures so everyone on here can see how much snow has fallen in the last 2 weeks!

  6. #56
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    I will admit to it being somewhat lightweight and summerful in feel but that's about it. When that came out, it was bright skies, sunny-ish, warm and about feeling good...we didn't want slow moody songs with too much to think about.

    I agree that It's The Same Old Song and I better include Papa too [[or I shall be in trouble) were mega-classics.

    I'm tooooooo biased...even though I have the rest of those songs in my collection [[except Hold Me...whatever that was!!

    Besides, number 11 is number one twice!

    HA-HA

    Rob....just hearing the word "igloo" makes me run for my hot water bottle! We have no snow here in London now so even Martha can come over here and not have to worry about planes not taking off....although I do hear that over there across that big pond, there are a few problems with that sort of thing.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown View Post
    I will admit to it being somewhat lightweight and summerful in feel but that's about it. When that came out, it was bright skies, sunny-ish, warm and about feeling good...we didn't want slow moody songs with too much to think about.

    I agree that It's The Same Old Song and I better include Papa too [[or I shall be in trouble) were mega-classics.

    I'm tooooooo biased...even though I have the rest of those songs in my collection [[except Hold Me...whatever that was!!

    Besides, number 11 is number one twice!

    HA-HA

    Rob....just hearing the word "igloo" makes me run for my hot water bottle! We have no snow here in London now so even Martha can come over here and not have to worry about planes not taking off....although I do hear that over there across that big pond, there are a few problems with that sort of thing.
    John, I can't believe you don't have Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me by Mel Carter in your music library. It's a classic. Shame on you. I BET CAL KNOWS IT.
    Last edited by Motown_M_1056; 01-21-2011 at 08:34 PM.

  8. #58
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    Should I look in my "dont let anyone see you like these songs" cupboard cos I really dont know that one at all.....I suppose I better look on YOUTUBE.

    Well I just heard it...it sounds a bit 50-ish to me, with those backing vocals almost taking over at times. Nice though..and he looks a clean boy who deserves to do well.

    Consider me well and truly told off!!

    Anyway, it's a bit to early for me to consider it a classic..I've only heard it once! HAHA

  9. #59
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown View Post
    Should I look in my "dont let anyone see you like these songs" cupboard cos I really dont know that one at all.....I suppose I better look on YOUTUBE.

    Well I just heard it...it sounds a bit 50-ish to me, with those backing vocals almost taking over at times. Nice though..and he looks a clean boy who deserves to do well.

    Consider me well and truly told off!!

    Anyway, it's a bit to early for me to consider it a classic..I've only heard it once! HAHA
    John, Hold Me...is indeed a classic. It's one of those swoon on the dancefloor songs. Mel Carter was a protege of Sam Cooke's, thus the clean- cut, teen idol look. He did very well in the Sixties on the Easy Listening charts. Staying on topic, The Supremes covered his All of A Sudden My Heart Sings on There's A Place For Us. Diana practically copied it note for note. The Flos appear on his Mel Carter in Hollywood DVD and CD.
    Last edited by Motown_M_1056; 01-21-2011 at 09:58 PM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    No, that was not true. Didn't you hear the audio interview of Diana Ross lying about how and why Florence left the group? That is all we the public knew at that time.....
    Do you think it would've been better if Diana said "Flo was a drunk who suffered from depression and other mental problems, she was showing up intoxicated and missed some gigs because of this and was skipping out on recording sessions and was just overall being difficult and as a result we decided to fire her". I think Diana and Motown saved Flo's ass by telling the public she left the group to settle down.

  11. #61
    smark21 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Andy View Post
    I don't believe Nothing But Heartaches was #11 because it was any less than the other songs the Supremes put out. I always felt that if it had come out a few weeks earlier or later, it would have been a bigger hit. Here's why. Look at the top 10 the week it stalled at #11:
    #1: Help
    #2: Like A Rolling Stone
    #3 California Girls
    #4 Unchained Melody
    #5 It’s The Same Old Song
    #6 I Got You Babe
    #7 You Were On My Mind
    #8 Papa’s Got A Brand New Bag
    #9 Eve Of Destruction
    #10 Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me!

    These songs are all mega-classics!
    I was wondering what was on the top ten that week. Not all songs can go #1 and there's still competition there. Besides it's 45 years later, does it really matter anymore if Nothing But Heartaches stalled at #11? If one's enjoyment of a song is based on chart performance, then one should stop listening to music and read accounting text books for leisure time activity.

  12. #62
    smark21 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    Do you think it would've been better if Diana said "Flo was a drunk who suffered from depression and other mental problems, she was showing up intoxicated and missed some gigs because of this and was skipping out on recording sessions and was just overall being difficult and as a result we decided to fire her". I think Diana and Motown saved Flo's ass by telling the public she left the group to settle down.
    Touche! Excellent point.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    Do you think it would've been better if Diana said "Flo was a drunk who suffered from depression and other mental problems, she was showing up intoxicated and missed some gigs because of this and was skipping out on recording sessions and was just overall being difficult and as a result we decided to fire her". I think Diana and Motown saved Flo's ass by telling the public she left the group to settle down.
    The truth is always better. The problem is, how much of what you just said is the truth? It would have been better on Diane and Motown if they had never screwed her over to begin with, but since it happened they should have come clean a lot earlier or they would not have to suffer the books, movies and plays that came about years later.

  14. #64
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    At the time of its' release I felt NBH was too similar to BIMAA, and paled by comparison. Just based on that I wasn't surprised when it stalled at number 11, much to this teenage fanatic's disappointment at seeing the #1 streak broken.

    Add to that the fact that More Hits was released within a month of the single's release, which probably didn't help sales for the single. I actually bought the album before the single, which I bought only to have the picture sleeve. [[Probably my first purchase for collectible purposes only!)

    The dreadful flip, He Holds His Own, probably their worst B-side, certainly didn't help sales either.

    Generally having TV exposure near the start of a single's release is ideal. NBH was released in July, when most TV shows were running repeats. It was a good 6 weeks at the start of the new television season before The Supremes sang NBH on Hullabaloo. By then NBH was nothing but history.

    [[NBH has never been a favorite of mine, although enjoyable on occasion. Ironically It's The Same Old Song is one of my favorite Tops' singles.)

  15. #65
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    How come the insights on NBH become intertwined with thoughts and rumours about Flo leaving the Supremes???

  16. #66
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    John-I thought "He Holds His Own" was too slow and awkward, and I couldn't take to it. I thought the same about "Always In My Heart" but I changed my mind about that one as the years went on.

    Robbert-It must be the music...it has different effects on different people! I guess that's why I like "Always In My Heart" these days!

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbert View Post
    How come the insights on NBH become intertwined with thoughts and rumours about Flo leaving the Supremes???

    Robbert, I credit it with some peoples' degree of mental illness. They can't focus on anything else, but drama. If you continue to listen to their constant conspiracy theories regarding the Supremes, you'll end up dreading the trio and the nutty fans.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbert View Post
    How come the insights on NBH become intertwined with thoughts and rumours about Flo leaving the Supremes???
    Robbert, it started when MissLish made this comment:

    "The public was rebelling against the ousting of Flo."

  19. #69
    smark21 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by robbert View Post
    How come the insights on NBH become intertwined with thoughts and rumours about Flo leaving the Supremes???
    Because most Supremes related threads degenerate into the bitterness and drama of the group's history.

  20. #70
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    Another view:

    Theories aside, there was more than one reason why Heartaches didn't crack the top ten. It had a different structure that the previous hits and perhaps too many choruses which gave it a monotony. I agree with many that the song should have gone all the way, it's one of my favorites. I loved Diana's sleepy delivery on the lyrics then hitting the chorus with angst.

    Also hurting Heartaches was Motown's release of the More Hits lp simultaneously. Motown had always released several hits on an artist to build up to the accompanying lp. The anticipation often resulted in far greater sales. In the case of Heartaches, when played on AM radio, listeners could either pay 50 cents for the single or 3 bucks like I did for that song and two other massive hits included. It was a situation where the single helped sell the album but the album thwarted sales of the single. Rarely did Motown do this. The next time, to my memory, that Motown released a single in conjunction with the lp was I'm Gonna Make You Love Me. It worked that time, but the Supremes were enjoying massive publicity with a hit single [[Love Child), a hit lp by the same name and a highly successful tv special [[TCB).

    It's all about marketing....

  21. #71
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    Yeah but # 11 on the charts is still a hit and hard to come by.

  22. #72
    MissLish Guest
    Is the 45 mono mix available on and of the CD compilations?

  23. #73
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    Nice one Rob. Interesting reading.

    MishLish - The 45 mono mix is available on CD see this link

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Complete-Motow...item518f170b7b

  24. #74
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    John - Last night I got my More Hits/HDH 2-fer and played the four slow songs: HHHO, "I'm In Love Again", [[YGB)AIMH and "Remove This Doubt". HHHO just doesn't work for me. I've always liked AIMH. I never bought the "Come See About Me" 45 from 1964 until late in 1966 just to have AIMH which had yet to appear on an album. I was miffed when it was released on the HDH LP just two months later! But I guess I don't like AIMH that much since I just noticed I don't have it on my iPod.

    HHHO didn't fit the MH LP and was a worse choice for a flip to a song that might have needed any extra push. [[And, regressing to my 15 year-old mind-set here, of course he brings nothing but heartaches if he has to hold his own! Sorry, I just let the boy overpower the man in me. Sometimes I can't help myself.)

    Andy's suggestion that had NBH been released a couple of weeks later may have been right on target. Although WDOLG was released July 11, 1964 and went to #1, NBH is the only other 60s Supremes single to be released in mid-summer, July 31, 1965. [[EGTRTL was also released on the 70s Supremes in mid-summer, July 11, 1970!)

    YCHL & Reflections were both released in mid-August of 1966 & 1967, respectively, and reached the top of the charts. The two albums featuring WDOLG & YCH were released in mid to late September of 1964 & 1966, respectively, and also went to the top of the album charts. So maybe late summer releases for singles and September releases for albums worked better than mid-summer releases for either. As Rob mentioned it's all about marketing.

    When the MH album was released one Boston radio station played most of the cuts and had contests to win the album. I can imagine this sent teenagers out to the stores to buy the MH LP instead of the NBH 45. I know that's what I did.

    But I think I know the real reason this single stalled. It may have been the title. I just remembered that my brother, only five years-old at the time, thought the girls were singing "Nothing but hard eggs"!

    [[Note: Dates taken from Joel Whitburn's Billboard chart books refer to dates the records charted not the actual release dates. In the 60s, Supremes records generally charted immediately upon release.)

  25. #75
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    John

    "Nothing but hard eggs"..love it. HA HA

    I shall never forget a previous thread here...one poster called a later song "Canary Love". lol

  26. #76
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    theboyfromxtown, "Canary Love"? Well that is just silly. Every six year old knows they were singing "Kangaroo Love"! LOL!!!!

  27. #77
    MissLish Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown View Post
    Nice one Rob. Interesting reading.

    MishLish - The 45 mono mix is available on CD see this link

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Complete-Motow...item518f170b7b



    Thank you theboyfromxtown. I have the collection through Volume 4. This is a reminder that I should complete the series.

  28. #78
    MissLish Guest
    I never could, and still can't get into He Holds His Own. I remember thinking the first time I heard it that it was almost like a throw back to their pre-hit days. By now the Supremes had an established sound, and He Holds Is Own was not part of that sound.

  29. #79
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    Misslish....I agree......so why do we all seem to think it wasn't that good but it still got released.

    We must be missing something but I am damned if I know what it is. Now if Berry Gordy had written the song, that might have explained it but it was HDH.

  30. #80
    MissLish Guest
    If I recall correctly, I remember it being said that DJs were flipping NBH and also HHHO, playing the song and that it became lukewarm popular.

  31. #81
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    Other than a weak opening, I like He Holds His Own, mainly because of the reserved, low key, plaintive performance from Diana.

  32. #82
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    There's some things I don't understand about the selection of B-sides. Some were top notch tracks that should have been A-sides like "Going Down For The Third Time," yet others were so poorly selected when there could have been so many better choices. For instance, "He Holds His Own" was the B-side to "Nothing But Heartaches," but why didn't they select a better tune like "I'm So Glad Heartaches Don't Always Last," or "Honey Boy." The other example is the B-side to "Forever Came Today." Why on earth did they decide that "Time Changes Things," a 5-year old track, should be the B-side? There were so many other better songs that would have been better choices like "I'm Gonna Make It [[I Will Wait For You)" or "Then."

    I love "Some Things You Never Get Used To," but I actually thought the B-side, "You've Been So Wonderful To Me," should have been the A-side. Another song I felt should have been a single was "You Gave Me Love." That's a top-notch track.

  33. #83
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    Brad

    How right you are too. Using "Time Changes Things" again was quite extraordinary to many fans. By that time, we knew HDH were gone, so why use one of their old songs AGAIN, as a b side. I wonder if it was part of the agreement that came with HDH coming back and doing a bit more work on the top side......after they had officially gone off on their own.

    I can recall the time when I'm Gonna Make It and You've Been So Wonderful To Me were firm favourites even with casual Motown fans. "Then" is one of my personal favourites from them of all time but I will only listen to the longer mono version.

    You chose some of my real favourites in your post.

    Brad - did you get those George Soloman remixes that he put up on here some time back?

  34. #84
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    Motown Complete Singles vol. 5:

    1. Mother Dear - Supremes
    2. Nothing But Heartaches - Supremes
    3. He Holds His Own - Supremes
    4. Nothing But Heartaches [[second versions) - Supremes

    Haven't got it. Can anyone tlel me what is special about track #4 ?

    On the subject of odd b-sides. When Time Changes Things appeared as b-side I immediately knew [[I remember me thinking it) that this was the end of the popularity of the group. I knew HDH were gone and that all kinds of nasty things were going on, like law suits. But to put a song from 1963 on the b-side in 1968... that said it for me. Something was very, VERY wrong.
    In retrospect I would say it was unforgivable, and I put the blame on Quality Control, of whatever what was left of it in 1968.
    Last edited by robbert; 01-23-2011 at 08:36 PM.

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