DRATS Return To Love

[luke]

Hasn't anyone ever just told this woman[[DR) to just cut the crap? One of the Motown books also indicated she was a nightmare at the divas taping.

[RanRan79]

Hasn't anyone ever just told this woman[[DR) to just cut the crap? One of the Motown books also indicated she was a nightmare at the divas taping.

Of course they have. And they were probably on the unemployment line the next day. Lol All joking aside, I'm always weary of stories about women in the business being difficult. The sexism and double standards is strong, not only within the business but even among the fans. I wonder what the specific allegations were in regards to this show as opposed to vague statements of "difficult".

[reese]

I'm not privy to any backstage info. But from VH1 said on a later behind the scenes program on their DIVAS series, one of the main problems with Diana's episode was that Diana insisted on a specific sound system that caused difficulties throughout the taping. She also disagreed with the original publicity campaign [[the superhero concept, which even I think looked cheezy).

But I also remember one of the VH1 officials saying something like despite the problems, Diana's DIVAS LIVE was the highest-rated episode in the series.

[jobeterob]

I'm not privy to any backstage info. But from VH1 said on a later behind the scenes program on their DIVAS series, one of the main problems with Diana's episode was that Diana insisted on a specific sound system that caused difficulties throughout the taping. She also disagreed with the original publicity campaign [[the superhero concept, which even I think looked cheezy).

But I also remember one of the VH1 officials saying something like despite the problems, Diana's DIVAS LIVE was the highest-rated episode in the series.

All she does is win!

[jobeterob]

[Bluebrock]

I read Donna refused to do a song..maybe Stop in name of Love ..because of lack of rehersal.

What you read is correct. Donna was given insufficient time to rehearse as indeed was Mariah and whilst this caused some initial difficulty the situation was quickly diffused and she and Diana met up the next day and cleared the air. To be fair to Mariah she was a real trooper on this particular occasion.

[marv2]

Of course they have. And they were probably on the unemployment line the next day. Lol All joking aside, I'm always weary of stories about women in the business being difficult. The sexism and double standards is strong, not only within the business but even among the fans. I wonder what the specific allegations were in regards to this show as opposed to vague statements of "difficult".

Ok, ok you never hear about someone like Smokey being a problem for others he has to work with. That is just an example . There is no double standard going on when it comes to Diana Ross. she has a problem with people in general and does not know how to effectively work with others.

[marv2]

All she does is win!

Yeah I guess so. That's why she hasn't had a hit over 3 and a half decades. LOL!!!!!

[RanRan79]

I'm not privy to any backstage info. But from VH1 said on a later behind the scenes program on their DIVAS series, one of the main problems with Diana's episode was that Diana insisted on a specific sound system that caused difficulties throughout the taping. She also disagreed with the original publicity campaign [[the superhero concept, which even I think looked cheezy).

But I also remember one of the VH1 officials saying something like despite the problems, Diana's DIVAS LIVE was the highest-rated episode in the series.

I'm glad the episode was a success. But why she would insist on using a sound system that created a problem defies logic. One would think a singer of her caliber would want things to go as smooth as possible. In the end I guess it didn't matter. Did anyone watch the show and talk about how the sound system sucked? Lol

[RanRan79]

Ok, ok you never hear about someone like Smokey being a problem for others he has to work with. That is just an example . There is no double standard going on when it comes to Diana Ross. she has a problem with people in general and does not know how to effectively work with others.

She's had a nearly 60 year career in the music business. You have to effectively work with others to work that long in any industry, period. No, I have not heard Smokey Robinson is a problem to work with, but I have heard stories about James Brown, Marvin Gaye, even Luther Vandross and others, and they are usually looked at as artists being particular about their art and the way things are done. With women who often do the same [[in and outside of the music business) they are instead called choice names and given labels like "difficult". Even a man being called "difficult" often has a different connotation than when it is applied to women. The fact that women like Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin, who is also often labeled "difficult", are also Black adds to the issue. A statement was made that Diana was being difficult during the taping of this show. The examples given so far leave me with a "maybe she was, maybe she wasn't" impression. I do not have enough information on the taping to form that kind of an opinion.

[marv2]

She's had a nearly 60 year career in the music business. You have to effectively work with others to work that long in any industry, period. No, I have not heard Smokey Robinson is a problem to work with, but I have heard stories about James Brown, Marvin Gaye, even Luther Vandross and others, and they are usually looked at as artists being particular about their art and the way things are done. With women who often do the same [[in and outside of the music business) they are instead called choice names and given labels like "difficult". Even a man being called "difficult" often has a different connotation than when it is applied to women. The fact that women like Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin, who is also often labeled "difficult", are also Black adds to the issue. A statement was made that Diana was being difficult during the taping of this show. The examples given so far leave me with a "maybe she was, maybe she wasn't" impression. I do not have enough information on the taping to form that kind of an opinion.

She's been in the business a long time, does not mean it's been a good time for those having to deal with her. For every "Miss Ross", I can name 40 women in the business that are very nice, pleasant and no bad reputation. I am not making this up just because I do not care for Miss Ross. I am just stating fact. I believe she's even talked about her behavior towards others. You do not have to be an asshole to be professional I promise. I am done with this subject for now.

[luke]

Well said Marv. This has nothing to do with sexism, everything to do with respect and professionalism. Did you ever listen to Christian Bale's temper tantrum on you tube? That's the kind of thing being discussed. Unprofessionalism and disrespect regardless of gender or perfectionism.

[RanRan79]

She's been in the business a long time, does not mean it's been a good time for those having to deal with her. For every "Miss Ross", I can name 40 women in the business that are very nice, pleasant and no bad reputation. I am not making this up just because I do not care for Miss Ross. I am just stating fact. I believe she's even talked about her behavior towards others. You do not have to be an asshole to be professional I promise. I am done with this subject for now.

I'm sure the woman has her funky moments. She's human just like everyone else. And yes there are some people who are more pleasant than others. But who are all these people saying she's a pain to work with? The producers she's gone into the studio say what? The musicians she has toured with say what? The background singers she's employed say what? The actors and actresses she's been on set with say what? The record execs say...well never mind what they say. Lol Where are all these people that say they wanted to kill themselves [[or Diana Ross) after working with her? Are we taking a few anecdotal stories and running with them or is this woman really such a pain? I'm not convinced.

[RanRan79]

Well said Marv. This has nothing to do with sexism, everything to do with respect and professionalism. Did you ever listen to Christian Bale's temper tantrum on you tube? That's the kind of thing being discussed. Unprofessionalism and disrespect regardless of gender or perfectionism.

Except no one provided an example of Diana Ross being unequivocally unprofessional or disrespectful during the taping of the VH1 show, which was the topic that proceeded the discussion about her being "difficult". My opinion regarding sexism as it relates to Black women in the industry still stands.

[TomatoTom123]

Yeah I guess so. That's why she hasn't had a hit over 3 and a half decades. LOL!!!!!

I don't think anyone from the '60s has a bona fide hit in the last 30 years? I don't know... I can't think of anyone. Smokey and Stevie haven't really since the mid/late '80s I don't believe. It must be so hard to keep making hits, competing with newer, younger, trendier acts, and having to take time away from family to do promotion, all at an older age, too.

[marv2]

I don't think anyone from the '60s has a bona fide hit in the last 30 years? I don't know... I can't think of anyone. Smokey and Stevie haven't really since the mid/late '80s I don't believe. It must be so hard to keep making hits, competing with newer, younger, trendier acts, and having to take time away from family to do promotion, all at an older age, too.

Well then that just proves that she is no better than any other artist still performing from the era when she first became famous!

[marv2]

Well said Marv. This has nothing to do with sexism, everything to do with respect and professionalism. Did you ever listen to Christian Bale's temper tantrum on you tube? That's the kind of thing being discussed. Unprofessionalism and disrespect regardless of gender or perfectionism.

Since you brought it up,
I just listened to it........Awful! He needs to have his ass kicked or something else. You can get another actor. That is not his company and those were not his slaves!

[TomatoTom123]

Well then that just proves that she is no better than any other artist still performing from the era when she first became famous!

Oh, yes, they are all legends! To still be performing and entertaining fans is just incredible at their ages. I do wish they could have decent-sized hits nowadays. I mean, take Stevie's latest single. I don't understand why a collaboration with a young act that's popular today [[Ariana Grande) on a song featured in a successful film [[Sing!) is a NON-CHARTER on both the Pop and R&B Charts of America. Sorry, Stevie, but I think this is absolutely fantastic and deserving of a hit:



Please excuse my almost totally irrelevant post and embedded video. Hehe

[Nitro2015]

It is true to say that Mariah is a big fan of Diana and to her credit she behaved as well as you could possibly expect Mariah Carey to behave if you catch my drift!!
Diana in turn is a big fan of Mariah and they did work quite well together. Better than Beyonce who was already displaying her diva credentials at that early stage in her career. Faith Hill was nice enough, and Donna Summer was an absolute sweetheart, but the main problem here was Diana herself who was not in a good place and should not have gone through with it. The whole experience was an absolute nightmare and i could not wait to fly back to the UK.

Thank you Bluebrock, I kinda understand what you're saying.

You could see in Diana's eyes that she was in a lot of emotional pain in those years. In the Divas show it was no different.

[marv2]

Except no one provided an example of Diana Ross being unequivocally unprofessional or disrespectful during the taping of the VH1 show, which was the topic that proceeded the discussion about her being "difficult". My opinion regarding sexism as it relates to Black women in the industry still stands.

A little bit of it seeped through when they were having issues with the sound system, she stopped the show and right in front audience she complained and said through clinched teeth..."this does not please me." It was her own sound system that she insisted VH-1 use. VH-1's storage/wareshouse offices butted up against the back my office at the time in NY. That has nothing to do with the story, I just thought it was interesting to mention. LOL!

[marv2]

Oh, yes, they are all legends! To still be performing and entertaining fans is just incredible at their ages. I do wish they could have decent-sized hits nowadays. I mean, take Stevie's latest single. I don't understand why a collaboration with a young act that's popular today [[Ariana Grande) on a song featured in a successful film [[Sing!) is a NON-CHARTER on both the Pop and R&B Charts of America. Sorry, Stevie, but I think this is absolutely fantastic and deserving of a hit:



Please excuse my almost totally irrelevant post and embedded video. Hehe

It was a non charter because most people did not get to hear it. They do not play that kind of music on commercial today. Also, the segment of the market that would be most likely to buy it, do not buy downloads and there are hardly and brick and mortar records left anywhere.

[RanRan79]

I don't think anyone from the '60s has a bona fide hit in the last 30 years? I don't know... I can't think of anyone. Smokey and Stevie haven't really since the mid/late '80s I don't believe. It must be so hard to keep making hits, competing with newer, younger, trendier acts, and having to take time away from family to do promotion, all at an older age, too.

You're mostly right Tom. Diana and her peers [[Black peers in particular) get little to no notice by "mainstream" audiences when it comes to hit singles in the last 30 years. R&B wise, I think Stevie's last major cut was the early 90s and Jungle Fever soundtrack. Diana was also in the top 10 with the duet she did with Al B Sure. Patti Labelle had a top 10 hit in 1994 and Aretha hit the top 10 in 1997/98 with "A Rose Is Still a Rose". Other than that, it's been mostly quiet from that crop of legends. I find it hard to believe that any of them are chasing hits at this point in their careers. I'm sure they would like to sale as many albums as possible, but chart hits are probably not on their radar.

[RanRan79]

Oh, yes, they are all legends! To still be performing and entertaining fans is just incredible at their ages. I do wish they could have decent-sized hits nowadays. I mean, take Stevie's latest single. I don't understand why a collaboration with a young act that's popular today [[Ariana Grande) on a song featured in a successful film [[Sing!) is a NON-CHARTER on both the Pop and R&B Charts of America. Sorry, Stevie, but I think this is absolutely fantastic and deserving of a hit:

Thanks for posting Tom because I had not heard this. I really like it. I wouldn't have chosen Ariana to do this song with him [[nothing against her, btw) but it came out real nice. It's up to date but still very Stevie, which I think is often one of the creative problems the legends have addressing: how to have an updated sound and still be true to themselves as artists. I think Stevie did very well here. Such a shame radio didn't pick it up.

[RanRan79]

VH-1's storage/wareshouse offices butted up against the back my office at the time in NY. That has nothing to do with the story, I just thought it was interesting to mention. LOL!

Oh Marv stop name dropping!

[TomatoTom123]

It was a non charter because most people did not get to hear it. They do not play that kind of music on commercial today. Also, the segment of the market that would be most likely to buy it, do not buy downloads and there are hardly and brick and mortar records left anywhere.

A shame Marv. However, I really think that this sounds modern and has commercial potential, and yet retains that Stevie magic. Oh well!

[TomatoTom123]

You're mostly right Tom. Diana and her peers [[Black peers in particular) get little to no notice by "mainstream" audiences when it comes to hit singles in the last 30 years. R&B wise, I think Stevie's last major cut was the early 90s and Jungle Fever soundtrack. Diana was also in the top 10 with the duet she did with Al B Sure. Patti Labelle had a top 10 hit in 1994 and Aretha hit the top 10 in 1997/98 with "A Rose Is Still a Rose". Other than that, it's been mostly quiet from that crop of legends. I find it hard to believe that any of them are chasing hits at this point in their careers. I'm sure they would like to sale as many albums as possible, but chart hits are probably not on their radar.

Yea, that is true, RanRan. Also, Diana was having Top Ten hits in the UK well into the 1990s I believe. Stevie even had a British hit [[Top 40!) with 2005's "So What The Fuss". But, at the end of the day, these legends have already had hit after hit after hit, and made so much incredible music, it's just amazing. They don't really need to anymore if they don't want to! They have earned their retirement!!!

[TomatoTom123]

Thanks for posting Tom because I had not heard this. I really like it. I wouldn't have chosen Ariana to do this song with him [[nothing against her, btw) but it came out real nice. It's up to date but still very Stevie, which I think is often one of the creative problems the legends have addressing: how to have an updated sound and still be true to themselves as artists. I think Stevie did very well here. Such a shame radio didn't pick it up.

You're welcome RanRan! Isn't it just fantastic!? I love it. And, yes, I'm not really a fan of Ariana but she is really great here and she works really well with Stevie. Maybe it's the high female singer-Stevie contrast like with Wonderlove and Syreeta! [[Oh my, yes, that's it, Syreeta, definitely!!!)

And, yes, RanRan, I think the song has both commercial potential and maintains a retro feel. It has that uplifting-but-subtly-funky Stevie magic!!! It's really great. A real shame that it wasn't a hit. Oh well....

[marv2]

A shame Marv. However, I really think that this sounds modern and has commercial potential, and yet retains that Stevie magic. Oh well!

People just do not get the opportunity to hear it or buy it. Sad,but it is the way things are now. I've seen Youtube videos of young artist that have something like 350,000,000 views which is incredible but it does not correlate to the same amount in music sales.
If you know where to look and listen, you can hear all of the latest releases by an artist.......without ever paying for it.

[imakicola]

A little bit of it seeped through when they were having issues with the sound system, she stopped the show and right in front audience she complained and said through clinched teeth..."this does not please me." It was her own sound system that she insisted VH-1 use. VH-1's storage/wareshouse offices butted up against the back my office at the time in NY. That has nothing to do with the story, I just thought it was interesting to mention. LOL!

At her concert here in calgary last year she found the spotlight too hot and stopped the show to complain about it. And at the end she said "I'll be back calgary! But only if you change your lighting guy." How rude. Publically humiliating. And this concert was at a casino. And she demands this poor guy be fired for her to return. Didn't like that.

[imakicola]

You're mostly right Tom. Diana and her peers [[Black peers in particular) get little to no notice by "mainstream" audiences when it comes to hit singles in the last 30 years. R&B wise, I think Stevie's last major cut was the early 90s and Jungle Fever soundtrack. Diana was also in the top 10 with the duet she did with Al B Sure. Patti Labelle had a top 10 hit in 1994 and Aretha hit the top 10 in 1997/98 with "A Rose Is Still a Rose". Other than that, it's been mostly quiet from that crop of legends. I find it hard to believe that any of them are chasing hits at this point in their careers. I'm sure they would like to sale as many albums as possible, but chart hits are probably not on their radar.

EVEn younger, white Madonna, who is specifically known not for having huge hits but having sustained ok success on the charts no matter what she puts out or at what age, has struggled to even crack the charts at all lately. And Jennifer Lopez and even Britney Spears are now older artists that people's parents listened to. Everyone gets older and the public starts to lose interest which is normal I guess.

[RanRan79]

You're welcome RanRan! Isn't it just fantastic!? I love it. And, yes, I'm not really a fan of Ariana but she is really great here and she works really well with Stevie. Maybe it's the high female singer-Stevie contrast like with Wonderlove and Syreeta! [[Oh my, yes, that's it, Syreeta, definitely!!!)

And, yes, RanRan, I think the song has both commercial potential and maintains a retro feel. It has that uplifting-but-subtly-funky Stevie magic!!! It's really great. A real shame that it wasn't a hit. Oh well....

Stevie loves those high voices and knows how to use them. Such a shame he didn't get to do a full album with Jean Terrell.

[RanRan79]

At her concert here in calgary last year she found the spotlight too hot and stopped the show to complain about it. And at the end she said "I'll be back calgary! But only if you change your lighting guy." How rude. Publically humiliating. And this concert was at a casino. And she demands this poor guy be fired for her to return. Didn't like that.

You would have really hit the roof if you had been at the Queen Aretha show where she threatened to meet a member of the house crew in the parking lot if he didn't get it together! LOL I don't have a problem with artists wanting to be comfortable on stage. I know how I am when I get hot. Other than her complaint, how was the show?

[imakicola]

It was a really good show!

And I get wanting to be comfortable. But that comment wasn't even a tiny bit classy or professional. It put a dark cloud over the rest of her performance. Seriously, be an adult! I'm literally paying for this performance...have a good attitude about it and suck it up! Without your fans, or your crew or your venues, you wouldn't be making any money.

[RanRan79]

It was a really good show!

And I get wanting to be comfortable. But that comment wasn't even a tiny bit classy or professional. It put a dark cloud over the rest of her performance. Seriously, be an adult! I'm literally paying for this performance...have a good attitude about it and suck it up! Without your fans, or your crew or your venues, you wouldn't be making any money.

Yes, I agree.

[marv2]

At her concert here in calgary last year she found the spotlight too hot and stopped the show to complain about it. And at the end she said "I'll be back calgary! But only if you change your lighting guy." How rude. Publically humiliating. And this concert was at a casino. And she demands this poor guy be fired for her to return. Didn't like that.

She told people in San Diego last year at an outdoors concert to stop eating their food because they do not do that in places like Vegas when an artist is performing! She asked them "didn't you guys eat before coming here?" The people continued to eat their food that was being sold at the venue and she eventually went back singing.

[marv2]

At her concert here in calgary last year she found the spotlight too hot and stopped the show to complain about it. And at the end she said "I'll be back calgary! But only if you change your lighting guy." How rude. Publically humiliating. And this concert was at a casino. And she demands this poor guy be fired for her to return. Didn't like that.

She had a flower delivery girl fired in Australia for speaking to her as she delivered flowers to her in her dressing room before a show.

[TomatoTom123]

Stevie loves those high voices and knows how to use them. Such a shame he didn't get to do a full album with Jean Terrell.

Oh, RanRan, don't even get me started on how much I love "Bad Weather" and how much I wish Stevie hadn't produced a whole album on The Supremes!!!!

[TomatoTom123]

She had a flower delivery girl fired in Australia for speaking to her as she delivered flowers to her in her dressing room before a show.

Marv, how do you know this stuff??

[marv2]

Marv, how do you know this stuff??

A lot of these current events were on Youtube video or shared from news reporting agencies.

[Roberta75]

A lot of these current events were on Youtube video or shared from news reporting agencies.

How come you never provide links to Diane geting the flower lady fired or that made up story that Diane lost all her money to Bernie Madof which no proof exists.

[imakicola]

She told people in San Diego last year at an outdoors concert to stop eating their food because they do not do that in places like Vegas when an artist is performing! She asked them "didn't you guys eat before coming here?" The people continued to eat their food that was being sold at the venue and eventually went back singing.

Well I can see why eating during a performance can be seen as rude.

Still. I paid money to see a legend. To see a professional. The show was entertaining, but I was cheated out of what I thought was a reasonable expectation...to see a professional. She has been performing for decades...she knows better. I would expect better even from an Ariadna grande or any other young teen idol. To have more class than...Diana Ross. sure Diana is classy in many other ways. She doesn't reveal lots of skin, she doesn't swear. But this isn't one of them apparently. And she has nobody to blame for people having those feelings, but herself.

Honestly Diana. You are the queen. Royalty doesn't behave this way. Grow up.

[mpn1jco]

I'm sure the woman has her funky moments. She's human just like everyone else. And yes there are some people who are more pleasant than others. But who are all these people saying she's a pain to work with? The producers she's gone into the studio say what? The musicians she has toured with say what? The background singers she's employed say what? The actors and actresses she's been on set with say what? The record execs say...well never mind what they say. Lol Where are all these people that say they wanted to kill themselves [[or Diana Ross) after working with her? Are we taking a few anecdotal stories and running with them or is this woman really such a pain? I'm not convinced.

Diana Ross: A Biography

May 1, 2007

by J. Randy Taraborrelli





Call Her Miss Ross: The Unauthorized Biography of Diana Ross

Dec 27, 1988

by J. Randy Taraborrelli



The Lost Supreme: The Life of Dreamgirl Florence Ballard

Apr 1, 2008

by Peter Benjaminson





Dreamgirl: My Life As a Supreme

Oct 1986

by Mary Wilson





The Supremes: A Saga of Motown Dreams, Success, and Betrayal

Jun 30, 2009

by Mark Ribowsky





Dreamgirl and Supreme Faith: My Life as a Supreme

Jan 11, 2000

by Mary





Motown: Music, Money, Sex, and Power

Oct 11, 2005

by Gerald Posner





Where Did Our Love Go?: The Rise and Fall of the Motown Sound [[Music in American Life)

Oct 8, 2007

by Nelson George and Quincy Jones





Standing in the Shadows of Motown: The Life and Music of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson

May 1, 1989

by Dr. Licks and James Jamerson





Motown's First A & R Man Presents The A & R Man

Apr 29, 2015

by William Mickey Stevenson and Ashley Stevenson





All That Glittered: My Life With the Supremes by Tony Turner [[2000-06-01) Paperback – 1890

by Tony Turner [[Author)





Deliver Us from Temptation Hardcover – November, 1992

by

Tony Turner [[Author), Barbara Aria [[Author)





Forever Faithful! A Study of Florence Ballard and the Supremes Paperback – February 1, 1999

by

Randall Wilson [[Author), Thomas Ingrassia [[Author), Linda Champion [[Author)



Berry, Me, and Motown: The Untold Story Hardcover – August, 1990

by Raynoma Gordy Singleton [[

[mpn1jco]

How come you never provide links to Diane geting the flower lady fired or that made up story that Diane lost all her money to Bernie Madof which no proof exists.

I find it interesting that you, of all people, are seeking documented proof of anything DEAR

[mpn1jco]

Diana Ross has not presented a case for libel or slander for any of the books. The books are well researched with 1,000s of direct witnesses contributing. These books would be extremely damaging to any performer's reputation, yet Diana Ross took no legal action to protect her image and reputation. It should also be noted, they all were published while she was alive and able to defend herself against the irreparable harm these books have done to her career. For example, all of the books about Whitney Houston were published after her death when she could not defend herself.

There are more 'tell all' books about Diana Ross' behavior than any performer I can think of. I can double the list of books if this is not sufficient. The preponderance of published evidence is too much to dismiss the allegations of bad behavior as proliferation of rumors or exaggeration and cannot be ignored.

I am shocked that this is even an issue at this late date. The question should not be IF but WHY?

[Roberta75]

I find it interesting that you, of all people, are seeking documented proof of anything DEAR

I didnt ask you for anything dearest.

[RanRan79]

Oh, RanRan, don't even get me started on how much I love "Bad Weather" and how much I wish Stevie hadn't produced a whole album on The Supremes!!!!

Go ahead Tom and get started! Lol I love "Bad Weather" also. I don't know if Stevie doing an entire Supremes album would have propelled them back into the popular act category or even if it would have renewed interest in the group from Motown, but damn I bet that would have been a classic album. I certainly would hope that Stevie would give all three leads, but I bet Jean would have been his focus and I aint mad at it. Could you imagine Mary and Lynda [[probably Jean with them) doing Wonderlove type harmonies? What could have been...

[RanRan79]

I've read most, if not all, of the books on the list and the only thing I'm convinced of is that Diana Ross isn't perfect. And because I'm positive that no one's mouth is a prayer book [[as my grandmother used to say) I give "tell alls" the same credit I give to the internet: there may be some truth, there may be some lies, but in the end it can make for some very entertaining reading. "All That Glitters" is entertaining reading, but as Maxine Ballard told me in an email some years ago, from her perspective it was highly exaggerated. And from my perspective that's how a lot of these "stories" are: highly exaggerated to fit the myth. Isn't Tony Turner the one who intended to write a book about how Berry Gordy molested him? And I'm supposed to use his book as proof of something? RanRan79<-------Laughing hysterically!!! In the end though, who cares?

[TomatoTom123]

Go ahead Tom and get started! Lol I love "Bad Weather" also. I don't know if Stevie doing an entire Supremes album would have propelled them back into the popular act category or even if it would have renewed interest in the group from Motown, but damn I bet that would have been a classic album. I certainly would hope that Stevie would give all three leads, but I bet Jean would have been his focus and I aint mad at it. Could you imagine Mary and Lynda [[probably Jean with them) doing Wonderlove type harmonies? What could have been...

Ok, RanRan, I'm starting and you can't stop me!!!!

"Bad Weather" is really just an all-round fantastic song. Uplifting, funky, catchy, danceable [[proto-Disco even) and it has that undeniably brilliant Stevie magic!!! It has to be my all-time fave Jean performance too. And I just love that horn section and even the discotheque whistles!!

RanRan, I would like to think that a Stevie-produced Supremes album would have been as commercially successful as it would have been absolutely fantastic [[he was slap bang in the middle of his classic period after all!) but you never know. I mean, "Bad Weather" barely cracked the Hot 100, excuse my language but WTF?

And, yea, I reckon Jean would get most of the leads. But I ain't complainin' neither... just look at "Bad Weather" and see how well the Stevie-Jean combination worked!!! And with Mary and Lynda on Wonderlove harmonies... ahh, what might have been... oh well! I'm just glad we got "Bad Weather" after all.

[mpn1jco]

I am not looking to pick a fight or question your integrity but can you provide the e-mail of Maxine Ballard as documented proof - you've fallen into the same trap you were taking a stance against.

Regarding Tony Turner, I wasn't there so I don't know the real truth, but no legal action was taken against him and people have been sued for millions for a lot less. I've have heard some things that raised a red flag and I am leaning towards Tony right now. I thought it was trash initially. Many people who have been subjected to sexual abuse do not come forward because they will treated as attention seeking liars. He was an underage boy hanging around adults in the entertainment industry and subject to predatory behavior. I applaud him for coming forth and maybe this will help other victims heal. I felt he was taking revenge against Mary Wilson for firing him and I questioned some of the Mary Wilson horror stories.

Meeting people who have worked with Ross is no big deal. I have hearsay, hearsay, hearsay throughout the years. I have heard basically the same thing over and over and I will leave it at that. I have never met her and have no desire to.

I will go with a published book by a reputable publisher that has been cleared by legal before I go with an anonymous poster in a public forum, which I absolutely will not do. Just because something is published doesn't mean it is true. Not suing doesn't mean the books are true. Some of the books on the list are more reputable than others, but they all basically tell the same story over and over and over about Ross.... hard to ignore.

[marv2]

Diana Ross has not presented a case for libel or slander for any of the books. The books are well researched with 1,000s of direct witnesses contributing. These books would be extremely damaging to any performer's reputation, yet Diana Ross took no legal action to protect her image and reputation. It should also be noted, they all were published while she was alive and able to defend herself against the irreparable harm these books have done to her career. For example, all of the books about Whitney Houston were published after her death when she could not defend herself.

There are more 'tell all' books about Diana Ross' behavior than any performer I can think of. I can double the list of books if this is not sufficient. The preponderance of published evidence is too much to dismiss the allegations of bad behavior as proliferation of rumors or exaggeration and cannot be ignored.

I am shocked that this is even an issue at this late date. The question should not be IF but WHY?

Did you read Bettye LaVette's book? It makes what Gladys Knight said her book sound very tame.