Mary Wilson's Voice: Perfection

[floyjoy678]

It's tough to say. I do ponder things like that though, as well as if Flo stayed in the Supremes would Diana have stayed longer, what if Mary just accepted Syreeta as Diana's replacement, yadda yadda.....Overall I think Jean would have stayed if they took a break from touring before switching to a different label. From what I understand without having a hit record that wasn't really an option for the group. It seems like touring wasn't really Jean's thing, she was missing several shows during 1972. Also her and Mary clashed over many things so it's hard to say would they have kept their differences aside being at a different record label.

[Roberta75]

It's tough to say. I do ponder things like that though, as well as if Flo stayed in the Supremes would Diana have stayed longer, what if Mary just accepted Syreeta as Diana's replacement, yadda yadda.....Overall I think Jean would have stayed if they took a break from touring before switching to a different label. From what I understand without having a hit record that wasn't really an option for the group. It seems like touring wasn't really Jean's thing, she was missing several shows during 1972. Also her and Mary clashed over many things so it's hard to say would they have kept their differences aside being at a different record label.

I was told that Jean Terrell loathed Pedro Ferrer as did Mr Gordy and Miss Birdsong and Miss Payne and Miss Lawrence and everyone at Motown.

[RanRan79]

It's tough to say. I do ponder things like that though, as well as if Flo stayed in the Supremes would Diana have stayed longer, what if Mary just accepted Syreeta as Diana's replacement, yadda yadda.....Overall I think Jean would have stayed if they took a break from touring before switching to a different label. From what I understand without having a hit record that wasn't really an option for the group. It seems like touring wasn't really Jean's thing, she was missing several shows during 1972. Also her and Mary clashed over many things so it's hard to say would they have kept their differences aside being at a different record label.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ponder a couple of those with you. Would Diana have stayed longer if Flo were in the group? I don't think so. I think that story would have played out the same because Diana was bound for solo stardom. I do think she [[and Flo and Mary) would have been happier if they communicated and didn't allow outside forces to interfere with their relationships. Perhaps that would have made those last couple of years bearable for one another.

What if Mary had accepted Syreeta? On one hand, I think it's possible Gordy would have taken a more active role in the group's post Diana future. [[Although I have long suspected that the whole Syreeta replacing Diana at the last minute was a patsy move so that Gordy could wash his hands of the group and have a "legit" reason other than the truth, which was no Diana, no Gordy interest.) There would have also been the likelihood of Stevie producing a bunch of stuff out of the gate and I have to wonder what that would have been like and would it have produced any hits. On the other hand, I read a quote from Cindy once that neither she nor Mary got along with Syreeta. If that's the case then the group might have imploded long before it actually did if Gordy had replaced one singer that could no longer get along with Mary and Cindy with another who couldn't.

[RanRan79]

I was told that Jean Terrell loathed Pedro Ferrer as did Mr Gordy and Miss Birdsong and Miss Payne and Miss Lawrence and everyone at Motown.

Ms. Roberta I thought Pedro came into the picture after Jean left? Or at least his involvement with the Supremes' business was after she left, no?

[Roberta75]

Ms. Roberta I thought Pedro came into the picture after Jean left? Or at least his involvement with the Supremes' business was after she left, no?

Oh you are correct RanRan. I apologize, but its true that none of the seventiess Supremes liked him. What decent person could respect a man who beat his wife to a pulp and although Mary is friendly with him know Im told shes still real real uneasy and uncomfortable in his company.

[floyjoy678]

I'm pretty sure Pedro was in the picture before Jean and Lynda left. I remember reading one of the many reasons why Lynda quit was because she was told at a meeting that Pedro would be managing the Supremes eventually. I don't blame anyone for loathing that basket case. What a joke that man was.

[RanRan79]

Oh you are correct RanRan. I apologize, but its true that none of the seventiess Supremes liked him. What decent person could respect a man who beat his wife to a pulp and although Mary is friendly with him know Im told shes still real real uneasy and uncomfortable in his company.

Agree 100 percent.

[RanRan79]

I'm pretty sure Pedro was in the picture before Jean and Lynda left. I remember reading one of the many reasons why Lynda quit was because she was told at a meeting that Pedro would be managing the Supremes eventually. I don't blame anyone for loathing that basket case. What a joke that man was.

Since we're pondering, do you think the group's story would have been different if Pedro wasn't involved?

[luke]

Cindy Birdsong leaving the first time really began the ultimate demise of the Supremes. Fans had come to love her and then when Jean left I think it was really almost over. Mary Wilson's presence kept it going for awhile longer.

[Bluebrock]

Cindy Birdsong leaving the first time really began the ultimate demise of the Supremes. Fans had come to love her and then when Jean left I think it was really almost over. Mary Wilson's presence kept it going for awhile longer.

I agree with you about it being more or less the end when Jean left, but less so about Cindy leaving. Lynda was sorely underused and had the ability to breathe new life into what was an ailing group. She and Jean got on very well, and indeed still do. I wish they had left Motown at this time. They could have carried on for a while longer had they done so.

[rod_rick]

I agree with you about it being more or less the end when Jean left, but less so about Cindy leaving. Lynda was sorely underused and had the ability to breathe new life into what was an ailing group. She and Jean got on very well, and indeed still do. I wish they had left Motown at this time. They could have carried on for a while longer had they done so.

Mary made the right decision to stay with Motown with the name Supremes. All of these ladies use the name in some form to this day. Also Mary would have lost control of the group had they moved on to another company without the name. And whose to say that [[moving to another label without the name) would have breathed any new life into the group. All the other groups that moved to another label in the 70's did so with their group name, the Supremes didn't have that option.

As for Lynda, she was a good replacement and a good vocalist but I preferred Cindy. With Cindy there was never a vocal battle but a vocal blend, that's what a good background does, they blend well with others and when she had a chance at the mic, she did well i.e. Love The oNe Your With come to mind.

[Bluebrock]

Mary made the right decision to stay with Motown with the name Supremes. All of these ladies use the name in some form to this day. Also Mary would have lost control of the group had they moved on to another company without the name. And whose to say that [[moving to another label without the name) would have breathed any new life into the group. All the other groups that moved to another label in the 70's did so with their group name, the Supremes didn't have that option.

As for Lynda, she was a good replacement and a good vocalist but I preferred Cindy. With Cindy there was never a vocal battle but a vocal blend, that's what a good background does, they blend well with others and when she had a chance at the mic, she did well i.e. Love The oNe Your With come to mind.

We will never know whether or not Mary made the right decision in staying with motown. You have your theories and i have mine.The only notable hit afterwards was I'M gonna let my heart do the walking , so it is quite possible they could have scored more success elsewhere.

[RanRan79]

Mary made the right decision to stay with Motown with the name Supremes. All of these ladies use the name in some form to this day. Also Mary would have lost control of the group had they moved on to another company without the name. And whose to say that [[moving to another label without the name) would have breathed any new life into the group. All the other groups that moved to another label in the 70's did so with their group name, the Supremes didn't have that option.

I did think about the fact that pretty much all of the other acts that left Motown and still had success were able to keep their name. That's a fair point. But what good did the name Supremes do the group after Jean and Lynda left? There are no guarantees in music, only gambles, and I would have liked to see Mary, Jean and Lynda take that gamble joining another label with a different group name. There's no reason why they couldn't have enjoyed additional hits being as talented as they were. The consolation is that we did get some great stuff with Scherrie and Susaye as the Supremes continued at Motown.

[Ozmo]

I did think about the fact that pretty much all of the other acts that left Motown and still had success were able to keep their name. That's a fair point. But what good did the name Supremes do the group after Jean and Lynda left? There are no guarantees in music, only gambles, and I would have liked to see Mary, Jean and Lynda take that gamble joining another label with a different group name. There's no reason why they couldn't have enjoyed additional hits being as talented as they were. The consolation is that we did get some great stuff with Scherrie and Susaye as the Supremes continued at Motown.

I think that ultimately Mary made the right decision not to leave Motown and forfeit the Supremes group name. Mary had observed firsthand the obstacles Florence Ballard had faced in attempting to re-establish her career without the use of the Supremes name. Also I think that it would have been very confusing for the public to have the lineup of Mary, Jean and Lynda suddenly presented as something different. What songs would they have performed in concert? How would a record company promote them? I think that there would have been constant references to the Supremes by the media and pressure from the fans to perform Supremes material. Jean and Lynda ultimately realised the value of the Supremes name and recording legacy when they formed the FLOS.

[rod_rick]

I did think about the fact that pretty much all of the other acts that left Motown and still had success were able to keep their name. That's a fair point. But what good did the name Supremes do the group after Jean and Lynda left? There are no guarantees in music, only gambles, and I would have liked to see Mary, Jean and Lynda take that gamble joining another label with a different group name. There's no reason why they couldn't have enjoyed additional hits being as talented as they were. The consolation is that we did get some great stuff with Scherrie and Susaye as the Supremes continued at Motown.

Not only do I think the group name was an issue but Mary would have lost total control over the group she help created.
Although the Supremes didn't have any major hits late into the 70's the group name kept the group on the tour circuit for a good while which without the group name would have been difficult with the talent but no track record. The Supremes is an established that all the ladies are using to this very day.

[RanRan79]

I think that ultimately Mary made the right decision not to leave Motown and forfeit the Supremes group name. Mary had observed firsthand the obstacles Florence Ballard had faced in attempting to re-establish her career without the use of the Supremes name. Also I think that it would have been very confusing for the public to have the lineup of Mary, Jean and Lynda suddenly presented as something different. What songs would they have performed in concert? How would a record company promote them? I think that there would have been constant references to the Supremes by the media and pressure from the fans to perform Supremes material. Jean and Lynda ultimately realised the value of the Supremes name and recording legacy when they formed the FLOS.

I don't think the public would have been confused. It's not like we're talking about the original group here. This version with Lynda, with all due respect to them, it's not like they were still a household name. [[Technically they were, but as the original group, not this grouping.) And just because they weren't the Supremes anymore doesn't mean they couldn't perform Supremes songs. Everyone else who has left Motown has included their Motown music in their performances. [[Except Florence. I've never heard Flo doing Supremes music during her solo period, excluding her performance of "Come See About Me" in 1975.) In the end, financially speaking, I probably agree with you that it was the right decision. Musically I just think they were dead when Jean and Lynda left. I wonder why Jean and Lynda didn't think to get a third girl and get their own thing going at another label?

[RanRan79]

Not only do I think the group name was an issue but Mary would have lost total control over the group she help created.
Although the Supremes didn't have any major hits late into the 70's the group name kept the group on the tour circuit for a good while which without the group name would have been difficult with the talent but no track record. The Supremes is an established that all the ladies are using to this very day.

You make good points Rod Rick.

[johnny_raven]

I wonder why Jean and Lynda didn't think to get a third girl and get their own thing going at another label?

From October, 1975 ...

[luke]

Totally agree 'rod rick. And it wasn't just the vocal blend. Cindy represented some continuity and the fans had come to love her. And her upbeat personality came thru

[Ozmo]

I don't think the public would have been confused. It's not like we're talking about the original group here. This version with Lynda, with all due respect to them, it's not like they were still a household name. [[Technically they were, but as the original group, not this grouping.) And just because they weren't the Supremes anymore doesn't mean they couldn't perform Supremes songs. Everyone else who has left Motown has included their Motown music in their performances. [[Except Florence. I've never heard Flo doing Supremes music during her solo period, excluding her performance of "Come See About Me" in 1975.) In the end, financially speaking, I probably agree with you that it was the right decision. Musically I just think they were dead when Jean and Lynda left. I wonder why Jean and Lynda didn't think to get a third girl and get their own thing going at another label?

Hi RanRan79 you have raised some interesting points and I'll respond purely from my perspective. I have read reports that Jean eventually grew weary of constant comparisons between Diana Ross and herself and grew increasingly reluctant to perform the' Diana era' songs in concert. I can only speculate that if the group took another name and left Motown she would be even less inclined to so. However, I'm sure that concert promoters and the group's management would have been keen to play up the connection between the group and the 'Supremes' name to maximise financial gain. This would in all kiklihood have met with opposition [[and legal action) from Motown.

Regarding Jean and Lynda getting a third girl, I recall an interview with Jean where she stated that prior to securing her solo deal and release of 'I Had To Fall In Love' album there was some talk of Cindy [[following her second exit from the Supremes), Lynda and herself forming a group. For whatever reason this did not eventuate but Jean was offered her solo deal.
while I wouldn't agree that the group was musically dead by the time of the Mary,Scherrie and Cindy lineup, I do concede that the continual comings and goings of members had taken it's toll as well as the fact that there was a long gap of approximately 2 years before any recordings from the MSC grouping was released.

[marv2]

Yet there were enough Temptations to fill out 3 basketball teams!

http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread...rry+McGilberry

[marv2]

There were far more replacements for the Temptations than there were for the Supremes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_band_members

[luke]

Very true Marv. And Mary was very wise to bring Cindy back for continuity sake at the minimum. Cindy Mary and Scherrie certainly had sparks as a group e.g. Their first album together and that Star Soangles Banner performance.

[detmotownguy]

Very true Marv. And Mary was very wise to bring Cindy back for continuity sake at the minimum. Cindy Mary and Scherrie certainly had sparks as a group e.g. Their first album together and that Star Soangles Banner performance.

I forgot abt the Star performance! Talk abt rising to the occasion. They sure sounded great wo the music.

[marv2]

Very true Marv. And Mary was very wise to bring Cindy back for continuity sake at the minimum. Cindy Mary and Scherrie certainly had sparks as a group e.g. Their first album together and that Star Soangles Banner performance.

Mary, along with Cindy Birdsong and Scherrie Payne were a great group. I enjoyed their work.

[marv2]

Here Mary is on American Bandstand with Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene in 1976:

[RanRan79]

Thanks for that Johnny Raven! I wonder what happened? Jean and Lynda being produced by Richard Perry would have been interesting.

[RanRan79]

Hi RanRan79 you have raised some interesting points and I'll respond purely from my perspective. I have read reports that Jean eventually grew weary of constant comparisons between Diana Ross and herself and grew increasingly reluctant to perform the' Diana era' songs in concert. I can only speculate that if the group took another name and left Motown she would be even less inclined to so. However, I'm sure that concert promoters and the group's management would have been keen to play up the connection between the group and the 'Supremes' name to maximise financial gain. This would in all kiklihood have met with opposition [[and legal action) from Motown.

Regarding Jean and Lynda getting a third girl, I recall an interview with Jean where she stated that prior to securing her solo deal and release of 'I Had To Fall In Love' album there was some talk of Cindy [[following her second exit from the Supremes), Lynda and herself forming a group. For whatever reason this did not eventuate but Jean was offered her solo deal.
while I wouldn't agree that the group was musically dead by the time of the Mary,Scherrie and Cindy lineup, I do concede that the continual comings and goings of members had taken it's toll as well as the fact that there was a long gap of approximately 2 years before any recordings from the MSC grouping was released.

Great points about Jean. Yes, I've heard the same thing, that Jean was tired of being compared to Diana. I think Mary wrote about this and the reluctance to perform the 60s hits. So yeah, chances are that if they had left Motown and formed under another name, Jean wouldn't have wanted to do the music of the 60s lineup.

I would like to think that by 1973 Mary was smart enough not to sign a release that would bar her from using her connection to the Supremes, especially after seeing what happened to Florence. The J5 weren't allowed to keep their name after leaving, but does anyone know if they were barred from capitalizing on their Motown years in promotion?

How I wish the Jean, Lynda, Cindy grouping had materialized. I bet that would have been fantastic, especially if they were being produced by Richard Perry, as the article Johnny posted suggests. But when I say "musically dead" once Jean and Lynda left, I want to clarify that I'm not referencing the quality of the music they did. I still maintain they should not have been a disco act, but they did make a lot of great music. I think publicly they were dead, with "Heart Do the Walking" somehow managing to be the one track that resonated at all with the public. My assertion about them re-grouping somewhere other than Motown is in speculation that they may have continued as a consistent hit making group with access to new producers and a label that may have believed in them.

[RanRan79]

There were far more replacements for the Temptations than there were for the Supremes

True Marv, which is why I don't think what happened had as much to do with who was in the group as it did with what the group was putting out. The Tempts were consistently making r&b hits well into the 70s with each replacement, even if people didn't really know the names of the replacements [[or care to know). Scherrie joined the group and the group became a disco act. I wonder if things would have been different if the Supremes had been singing the stuff the Three Degrees were doing. I never thought of the Degrees' music being quite as disco [[save a cut or two) as what the Supremes were doing.

[Bluebrock]

Hi RanRan79 you have raised some interesting points and I'll respond purely from my perspective. I have read reports that Jean eventually grew weary of constant comparisons between Diana Ross and herself and grew increasingly reluctant to perform the' Diana era' songs in concert. I can only speculate that if the group took another name and left Motown she would be even less inclined to so. However, I'm sure that concert promoters and the group's management would have been keen to play up the connection between the group and the 'Supremes' name to maximise financial gain. This would in all kiklihood have met with opposition [[and legal action) from Motown.

Regarding Jean and Lynda getting a third girl, I recall an interview with Jean where she stated that prior to securing her solo deal and release of 'I Had To Fall In Love' album there was some talk of Cindy [[following her second exit from the Supremes), Lynda and herself forming a group. For whatever reason this did not eventuate but Jean was offered her solo deal.
while I wouldn't agree that the group was musically dead by the time of the Mary,Scherrie and Cindy lineup, I do concede that the continual comings and goings of members had taken it's toll as well as the fact that there was a long gap of approximately 2 years before any recordings from the MSC grouping was released.

I so wish this line up could have secured a record deal. Having just returned from a fascinating and thought provoking interview with a certain former Supreme i can confirm that Jean, Lynda and Cindy were interested in forming a new trio but were basically warned off from doing so. Cindy dropped out and Jean and Lynda talked of recruiting a 3rd member before deciding on becoming a duo. These two magnificent ladies got on like a house on fire and stay in touch to this very day. Eventually this idea fizzled out and Jean eventually signed her solo deal. Jean was tired of touring and this led to her retirement for many years. It could all have been so different but certain outside forces proved too strong. I could write a book about this, and indeed that is what i intend to do!!!

[imakicola]

I don't think the public would have been confused. It's not like we're talking about the original group here. This version with Lynda, with all due respect to them, it's not like they were still a household name. [[Technically they were, but as the original group, not this grouping.) And just because they weren't the Supremes anymore doesn't mean they couldn't perform Supremes songs. Everyone else who has left Motown has included their Motown music in their performances. [[Except Florence. I've never heard Flo doing Supremes music during her solo period, excluding her performance of "Come See About Me" in 1975.) In the end, financially speaking, I probably agree with you that it was the right decision. Musically I just think they were dead when Jean and Lynda left. I wonder why Jean and Lynda didn't think to get a third girl and get their own thing going at another label?

Come see About Me? Was that the song Flo shook the tambourine to at magic mountain???

[RanRan79]

I so wish this line up could have secured a record deal. Having just returned from a fascinating and thought provoking interview with a certain former Supreme i can confirm that Jean, Lynda and Cindy were interested in forming a new trio but were basically warned off from doing so. Cindy dropped out and Jean and Lynda talked of recruiting a 3rd member before deciding on becoming a duo. These two magnificent ladies got on like a house on fire and stay in touch to this very day. Eventually this idea fizzled out and Jean eventually signed her solo deal. Jean was tired of touring and this led to her retirement for many years. It could all have been so different but certain outside forces proved too strong. I could write a book about this, and indeed that is what i intend to do!!!

I hate that the new group never materialized. I wonder why and who would put a stop to such a thing? I also hate that Jean didn't stick with the solo career. I actually love her solo album as a first effort. It bugs me that as solo artists [[aside from Diana) we just didn't get enough music from the solo Supremes. There always seems to be large gaps in their recordings and releases.

[RanRan79]

Come see About Me? Was that the song Flo shook the tambourine to at magic mountain???

No, she performed "Come See About Me" during her last solo performance in 1975 during a benefit concert. She did that as an encore to "I Am Woman".

[imakicola]

Gotcha. Did anyone know what the magic mountain song was? !!!

[RanRan79]

Gotcha. Did anyone know what the magic mountain song was? !!!

I believe Mary says it was "Love Train".

[imakicola]

I so wish this line up could have secured a record deal. Having just returned from a fascinating and thought provoking interview with a certain former Supreme i can confirm that Jean, Lynda and Cindy were interested in forming a new trio but were basically warned off from doing so. Cindy dropped out and Jean and Lynda talked of recruiting a 3rd member before deciding on becoming a duo. These two magnificent ladies got on like a house on fire and stay in touch to this very day. Eventually this idea fizzled out and Jean eventually signed her solo deal. Jean was tired of touring and this led to her retirement for many years. It could all have been so different but certain outside forces proved too strong. I could write a book about this, and indeed that is what i intend to do!!!

Got on till this. Sunday? I thought there was some drama regarding FLOS

[marv2]

Got on till this. Sunday? I thought there was some drama regarding FLOS

There was and it is probably best not to discuss it because people have clearly shown me that they cannot take the truth without a chaser LOL!

[midnightman]

[marv2]

This was just so hot! Mary on the Arsenio Hall Show:

[detmotownguy]

This was just so hot! Mary on the Arsenio Hall Show:

Made my day. This is another example Mary's ability! Damn she looks good.

[luke]

Every inch the star!

[marv2]

Every inch the star!

Arsenio tried to get her to give in a kiss......she wouldn't do it! She's kissed me though! LOL!!!

[luke]

Lucky guy!!

[marv2]

Lucky guy!!

Most definitely Luke!

[RanRan79]

I never knew Mary was on Arsenio! I don't care for the song but she sounds fantastic and looks beautiful. The audience loves her!

[Weslley Francisco]

I found a video on YouTube called "Mary Wilson CAN'T Sing," which is actually a video compilation of some of her strongest vocal moments intended to prove that yes, Mary actually CAN sing and very well.

https://youtu.be/UN48C0_2e0w

[marv2]

I love how this video starts off with one of my favorites, "We Should Be Closer Together". Mary is great singer and one of the most beautiful. The most beautiful in my opinion.

[marv2]

[captainjames]

I believe Stevie Wonder and Florence Ballard gave their approval with this lineup. Its a shame we never got enough recordings with them. Mary felt comfortable with the safety net of Motown but, Motown was not catching them anymore. The name Supreme was associated with what they were not about anymore so I would have made that move.