David Ruffin - "On And Off"

[TomatoTom123]

Oh my. This outstanding track by the one-and-only David Ruffin should have been a massive hit, right??



What happened?!

[thanxal]

There are just so many of these tracks that should have been hits. I have the Solo Recordings and each time I listen, I just can't believe my ears. Each one is a #1.

[TomatoTom123]

There are just so many of these tracks that should have been hits. I have the Solo Recordings and each time I listen, I just can't believe my ears. Each one is a #1.

thanxal, I couldn't agree more. "Everything's Coming Up Love", "Heavy Love", "Wild Honey", "You're My Peace Of Mind" [[I could go on, hehe) - and even the unreleased ones like "I Want You Back", "I've Got A Need For You" and "Make My Water Boil" - are just so so good, it's unbelievable. I think "On And Off", however, might be one of my personal favourites!

[thanxal]

thanxal, I couldn't agree more. "Everything's Coming Up Love", "Heavy Love", "Wild Honey", "You're My Peace Of Mind" [[I could go on, hehe) - and even the unreleased ones like "I Want You Back", "I've Got A Need For You" and "Make My Water Boil" - are just so so good, it's unbelievable. I think "On And Off", however, might be one of my personal favourites!

I'm preaching to the choir at this point, but yes, you have more shoulda been #1's. I can't argue with anything on your list.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

David Ruffin's "On And Off" was a perfect example of a beautiful marriage between Motown and Van McCoy, as were the tracks on all three of David's Van McCoy-produced albums.

[TomatoTom123]

I'm preaching to the choir at this point, but yes, you have more shoulda been #1's. I can't argue with anything on your list.

Yes indeed!

Do you think there are any reasons why these weren't massive hits?

[TomatoTom123]

David Ruffin's "On And Off" was a perfect example of a beautiful marriage between Motown and Van McCoy, as were the tracks on all three of David's Van McCoy-produced albums.

Oh yes Gary, the Van McCoy-David Ruffin combination was pure genius! The classic voice of Mr. Ruffin, the slick, stylish production from Mr. McCoy, and that hint of Motown - it's just incredible.

"On And Off" in particular feels like a throwback to classic '60s Motown, with a brilliant '70s Van McCoy touch - and I just love it.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Oh yes Gary, the Van McCoy-David Ruffin combination was pure genius! The classic voice of Mr. Ruffin, the slick, stylish production from Mr. McCoy, and that hint of Motown - it's just incredible.

"On And Off" in particular feels like a throwback to classic '60s Motown, with a brilliant '70s Van McCoy touch - and I just love it.

So true, Tom! And the same applies to Van McCoy's two Motown productions on Thelma Houston -- especially "Don't Pity Me". As always, Faith, Hope & Charity add their back-up vocal genius to Van's amazing production on a song that was originally theirs. What a "pity" an entire album's worth of the McCoy/Motown magic wasn't devoted to Thelma Houston.

THELMA HOUSTON - "Don't Pity Me" [[Thanks to Metropolitan Soul for uploading to YouTube)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksZGT-jnGoo

[TomatoTom123]

So true, Tom! And the same applies to Van McCoy's two Motown productions on Thelma Houston -- especially "Don't Pity Me". As always, Faith, Hope & Charity add their back-up vocal genius to Van's amazing production on a song that was originally theirs. What a "pity" an entire album's worth of the McCoy/Motown magic wasn't devoted to Thelma Houston.

THELMA HOUSTON - "Don't Pity Me" [[Thanks to Metropolitan Soul for uploading to YouTube)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksZGT-jnGoo

Yes indeed Gary!! I just adore Van McCoy's work. I wish he had been allowed to work with other talents at Motown in the mid/late '70s like G.C. Cameron, The Originals, Jerry Butler - I'm sure the results would have been brilliant!

And you're right, just listen to the fantastic "Don't Pity Me". It's just a glimpse of what might have come from a Thelma Houston-Van McCoy collaboration!!

[TomatoTom123]

Also [[as well as "Don't Pity Me") Van McCoy produced Thelma Houston's "Find A Way" and "You Never Were My Friend", both of which seem to be quite rare, and
neither are available on YouTube!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Also [[as well as "Don't Pity Me") Van McCoy produced Thelma Houston's "Find A Way" and "You Were Never My Friend", both of which seem to be quite rare, and
neither are available on YouTube!

Tom, Thelma Houston's "Don't Pity Me" and "Find A Way" are readily available on Thelma Houston & Jerry Butler's "Two To One" CD [[a two-fer CD containing both of their Motown duet CDs together on one CD.) [[See Amazon.US link below):

https://www.amazon.com/Thelma-Jerry-...+two+to+one+cd

But where did you find a version of Thelma's "You Never Were My Friend"? I've always made it a point to keep up on what's available from Motown AND Van McCoy, yet I never knew that such a track existed by her. [[On my word processor, I've entered each and every track from every CD that I own in what I call my CD Playlist. I searched the chapters for Motown as well as Van McCoy and found nothing for Thelma under that title.) Faith, Hope & Charity recorded a version of "You Never Were My Friend" on their final album "Faith, Hope & Charity" on 20th Century, but that's all that I've ever been aware of. If you know something more about it, please enlighten me.

[johnny_raven]

But where did you find a version of Thelma's "You Never Were My Friend"? I've always made it a point to keep up on what's available from Motown AND Van McCoy, yet I never knew that such a track existed by her. [[On my word processor, I've entered each and every track from every CD that I own in what I call my CD Playlist. I searched the chapters for Motown as well as Van McCoy and found nothing for Thelma under that title.) Faith, Hope & Charity recorded a version of "You Never Were My Friend" on their final album "Faith, Hope & Charity" on 20th Century, but that's all that I've ever been aware of. If you know something more about it, please enlighten me.

It's on her Reachin' All Around album.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

It's on her Reachin' All Around album.

Hey, thanks, Johnny! As a Motown CD collector, I sure don't remember ever having that album in my LP collection back in the day. I wonder how I ever missed it? As a Van McCoy collector, I would have bought it just for Thelma's version of "You Never Were My Friend" alone -- even if it weren't on Motown. Makes ya wonder what else I've missed!

For the benefit of others who may have missed it as well, here is a view of Thelma Houston's "Reachin' All Around" album on Motown.

https://www.discogs.com/Thelma-Houst...elease/3212434

[TomatoTom123]

Tom, Thelma Houston's "Don't Pity Me" and "Find A Way" are readily available on Thelma Houston & Jerry Butler's "Two To One" CD [[a two-fer CD containing both of their Motown duet CDs together on one CD.)

Thanks Gary!

And yes, I had only ever seen Thelma's "You Never Were My Friend" listed on her Reachin' All Around album, I have never actually heard it before! I believe the album was made up of previously unreleased material, so I would guess that it was recorded around the same time as "Don't Pity Me"

[sansradio]

Thanks, guys. Reachin' All Around is an album I'd completely missed, as Gary did. And I fancy myself a Thelma fan.

[robb_k]

David Ruffin's "On And Off" was a perfect example of a beautiful marriage between Motown and Van McCoy, as were the tracks on all three of David's Van McCoy-produced albums.

I thought to myself that this recording didn't sound at all like an L.A. Motown recording. Did Van record it in New York?

[TomatoTom123]

I thought to myself that this recording didn't sound at all like an L.A. Motown recording. Did Van record it in New York?

I believe so Robb. I think all of the David Ruffin-Van McCoy albums were recorded there. That's Who Am I [[1975), Everything's Coming Up Love [[1976, contains "On And Off") and In My Stride [[1977), all recorded in the Big Apple!

[johnny_raven]

Thanks, guys. Reachin' All Around is an album I'd completely missed, as Gary did. And I fancy myself a Thelma fan.

So, I assume you have this?

[sansradio]

I don't own the Pressure Cooker LP yet; I do know about it. Thank goodness it's readily available!

[johnny_raven]

And these as well ...

[johnny_raven]

And these ...

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I thought to myself that this recording didn't sound at all like an L.A. Motown recording. Did Van record it in New York?

Gee, I really don't know the answer to that, Robb. I've been able to keep track of and obtain an awfully lot of Van McCoy's productions -- especially those from the 1970s, including some super-rare ones -- but as far as where they were recorded, I have no idea. I'm sorry I can't help you there.

[soulwally]

Sorry guys... Loved walk away from love, but everything by ruffin/mccoy sounded too samey to me

[TomatoTom123]

Sorry guys... Loved walk away from love, but everything by ruffin/mccoy sounded too samey to me

WHAT!!? How dare you even suggest such a thing?!!
Lol, jokin'

Yes, Van McCoy's style is quite distinctive, and you can hear it on all his songs with David Ruffin. I personally love it, especially combined with David's classic voice.

For me it just means lots of similar, similarly brilliant songs

[TomatoTom123]

Found this picture recently and just HAD to post it here!!



I just love it... two absolute legends in one photo...

[TomatoTom123]

Also [[as well as "Don't Pity Me") Van McCoy produced Thelma Houston's "Find A Way" and "You Never Were My Friend", both of which seem to be quite rare, and neither are available on YouTube!

Where did you find a version of Thelma's "You Never Were My Friend"? I've always made it a point to keep up on what's available from Motown AND Van McCoy, yet I never knew that such a track existed by her. [[On my word processor, I've entered each and every track from every CD that I own in what I call my CD Playlist. I searched the chapters for Motown as well as Van McCoy and found nothing for Thelma under that title.) Faith, Hope & Charity recorded a version of "You Never Were My Friend" on their final album "Faith, Hope & Charity" on 20th Century, but that's all that I've ever been aware of. If you know something more about it, please enlighten me.

As it turns out a video of Thelma Houston's "You Never Were My Friend" has now been uploaded to YouTube!!!!!! I'm so glad I revisited this thread [[hehe) because the song is so brilliant...

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Found this picture recently and just HAD to post it here!!I just love it... two absolute legends in one photo...

Great photo, Tom! It's obvious you've been doing your homework! HaHa! There also exists a neat photo of Van with his co-producer, Charlie Kipps, and Aretha. Good stuff! I think I've also seen a shot of Van with Melba Moore. Wouldn't you just love to have access to the Van McCoy family scrapbook?!!! It would be chock full of behind-the-scenes photos and memories throughout Van's illustrious career.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

As it turns out a video of Thelma Houston's "You Never Were My Friend" has now been uploaded to YouTube!!!!!! I'm so glad I revisited this thread [[hehe) because the song is so brilliant...

Thanks, Tom! This is the first time I've ever heard Thelma's version of this former Faith, Hope & Charity track. Now, in Thelma's version, we get the best of both worlds -- Thelma AND Faith, Hope & Charity all in one! [[BTW, after you and Johnny Raven made me aware of Thelma's "Reaching All Around" Motown album, which had somehow slipped right past me, I was able to purchase a like-new American Motown copy. It's sitting in the pile with my other vinyl discs waiting to be burned to CD. Thanks again to both of you for making me aware of what I should have known all along. Better late than never!)

[TomatoTom123]

Great photo, Tom! It's obvious you've been doing your homework! HaHa! There also exists a neat photo of Van with his co-producer, Charlie Kipps, and Aretha. Good stuff! I think I've also seen a shot of Van with Melba Moore. Wouldn't you just love to have access to the Van McCoy family scrapbook?!!! It would be chock full of behind-the-scenes photos and memories throughout Van's illustrious career.

Hehe
I think I might be going through a Van McCoy obsession phase... I had a similar thing with Norman Whitfield recently... LOL

And YES I would love more of such photos... I can't even explain how much that one of Van and David makes me smile!!!

Just looked up the other photo you described Gary and I found it! Great one. Of course Charlie wrote David Ruffin's brilliant "Walk Away From Love" among others!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Hehe
I think I might be going through a Van McCoy obsession phase... I had a similar thing with Norman Whitfield recently... LOL

And YES I would love more of such photos... I can't even explain how much that one of Van and David makes me smile!!!

Just looked up the other photo you described Gary and I found it! Great one. Of course Charlie wrote David Ruffin's brilliant "Walk Away From Love" among others!

Yep, that's the photo. Good work, Sherlock! HeHe! Listen, Tom, if you're really obsessed and serious about learning all you can about Van's 1970's productions, I'll be glad to help you in any way I can. Of the ones I know about, I have them all in my CD collection -- many of which are on CD from the master tapes, and many which were, unfortunately, dubbed to CD from vinyl, albeit like-new vinyl. Trust me when I say there are a ton of them. The man was nothing short of prolific!

[TomatoTom123]

Yep, that's the photo. Good work, Sherlock! HeHe!

Lol
Some say "genius", some say "obsessed"

Listen, Tom, if you're really obsessed and serious about learning all you can about Van's 1970's productions, I'll be glad to help you in any way I can. Of the ones I know about, I have them all in my CD collection -- many of which are on CD from the master tapes, and many which were, unfortunately, dubbed to CD from vinyl, albeit like-new vinyl. Trust me when I say there are a ton of them. The man was nothing short of prolific!

Oh thank you Gary! And I see you must be quite a fan!!!! I don't blame you, Van's work really is amazing, and there is so much of it, you're right

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Lol
Some say "genius", some say "obsessed"

Oh thank you Gary! And I see you must be quite a fan!!!! I don't blame you, Van's work really is amazing, and there is so much of it, you're right

You're welcome, Tom. Yep! I'm a fan of Van alright. As a collector, he's one of my specialties, as is Motown, Phil Spector [[Philles), '60s Girl Groups, Classic '70s Disco, 1980's Country, and classical Choral Music and Opera. When I have a passion for something, I go all out for it and get everything I can find on it. Van McCoy's music is no exception!

One day soon, I'll make you a list of every Van McCoy-produced artist that I have in my collection. The extent of his work is staggering! You'll flip!

[Laserdk]

Thanks, Tom! This is the first time I've ever heard Thelma's version of this former Faith, Hope & Charity track. Now, in Thelma's version, we get the best of both worlds -- Thelma AND Faith, Hope & Charity all in one! [[BTW, after you and Johnny Raven made me aware of Thelma's "Reaching All Around" Motown album, which had somehow slipped right past me, I was able to purchase a like-new American Motown copy. It's sitting in the pile with my other vinyl discs waiting to be burned to CD. Thanks again to both of you for making me aware of what I should have known all along. Better late than never!)

Thelma's version is the actual original recording of this song as it was recorded in 1976, Still some other Van McCoy produced tracks awaiting release from that old Motown vault.

Ivor

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Thelma's version is the actual original recording of this song as it was recorded in 1976, Still some other Van McCoy produced tracks awaiting release from that old Motown vault.

Ivor

That's wonderful news, Ivor! Thanks! Makes ya wonder why Motown scrapped the project, especially after the rousing success they had with David Ruffin's "Walk Away From Love". With any luck at all, we may one day reap an album's worth of Van McCoy-produced Thelma Houston material -- even if it's in bits and pieces. Do you know if vault material exists for any other Motown artists produced by Van?

[honest man]

You're welcome, Tom. Yep! I'm a fan of Van alright. As a collector, he's one of my specialties, as is Motown, Phil Spector [[Philles), '60s Girl Groups, Classic '70s Disco, 1980's Country, and classical Choral Music and Opera. When I have a passion for something, I go all out for it and get everything I can find on it. Van McCoy's music is no exception!

One day soon, I'll make you a list of every Van McCoy-produced artist that I have in my collection. The extent of his work is staggering! You'll flip!

PMGary a few years ago one of the posters on here sent loads of links foe Van's productions etc [westgrand]or someone with a long moniker,i reckon you should go through archives some beauts on the thread,Iloved them and Vmc 60s 70s input,really a great man left us to soon.oh yeah also reading a book at moment Always Magic in the air,right up your street though i reckon you have read it,cheers.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

PMGary a few years ago one of the posters on here sent loads of links foe Van's productions etc [westgrand]or someone with a long moniker,i reckon you should go through archives some beauts on the thread,Iloved them and Vmc 60s 70s input,really a great man left us to soon.oh yeah also reading a book at moment Always Magic in the air,right up your street though i reckon you have read it,cheers.

Thanks for the tip, honest man. I'll check out those Van McCoy posts from the past when I get a chance.

And thanks for the heads up regarding the "Always Magic In The Air" book. I wasn't aware of it. I already have books on the Brill Building, but, hey, given the magic that came out of those walls, what's one more!!! I've ordered my copy! It'll be here Friday! Thanks again, Buddy!

[TomatoTom123]

[[Hehe... yep, I've gone and brought this ol' thread back again... what am I like, eh? )

I found this brilliant picture a while back and thought it would be a good idea to post it here:



Van McCoy with Faith, Hope & Charity!

[marv2]

Oh my. This outstanding track by the one-and-only David Ruffin should have been a massive hit, right??



What happened?!

Yes this was a great recording. It did receive airplay in Detroit/Toledo in '76. Did someone else also record this song?

[TomatoTom123]

I was just going over this old thread and I know I'm four months late in replying but I'm gonna reply anyway...

You're welcome, Tom. Yep! I'm a fan of Van alright. As a collector, he's one of my specialties, as is Motown, Phil Spector [[Philles), '60s Girl Groups, Classic '70s Disco, 1980's Country, and classical Choral Music and Opera. When I have a passion for something, I go all out for it and get everything I can find on it. Van McCoy's music is no exception!

Wow, Gary, 1980s country music? That's quite different from Van McCoy!!! I love the diversity. Why do you like '80s country music so much?

[TomatoTom123]

Yes this was a great recording. It did receive airplay in Detroit/Toledo in '76. Did someone else also record this song?

It certainly is great isn't it!? It's also good to hear it got some airplay too. And, yes Marv, they did!!! The original version of this song was actually by a group called Anacostia, in 1972. The group were previously known as The Presidents and had a hit with "5-10-15-20 [[25-30 Years Of Love)" in 1970. It's slower and less upbeat but still nice.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

[[Hehe... yep, I've gone and brought this ol' thread back again... what am I like, eh? )

I found this brilliant picture a while back and thought it would be a good idea to post it here:



Van McCoy with Faith, Hope & Charity!

What an uplifting photo of Van McCoy with Faith, Hope & Charity, Tom! Leave it to you to freshen up a past post! You're a guy from my own heart!

[TomatoTom123]

What an uplifting photo of Van McCoy with Faith, Hope & Charity, Tom! Leave it to you to freshen up a past post! You're a guy from my own heart!

Yes, isn't it just a fantastic photo!!!? And, Gary, you're welcome. [[And, yes, I am!)

[marv2]

I knew I heard it before by another artist.

[TomatoTom123]

I knew I heard it before by another artist.

Yes indeed, Marv, you were right! Which version do you prefer?

[Encyclopedia Mack]

I personally liked the "In My Stride" album the best out of the Ruffin/McCoy albums. To me their chemistry got even better on this album. Especially with the unreleased "You Oughta know me."

[TomatoTom123]

I personally liked the "In My Stride" album the best out of the Ruffin/McCoy albums. To me their chemistry got even better on this album. Especially with the unreleased "You Oughta know me."

Yes indeed, Mack, In My Stride is particularly excellent! From the non-stop-pounding-floorfiller-Disco of "You're My Peace Of Mind" and "There's More To Love" to the beautiful slowies "Just Let Me Hold You For A Night" and "You Oughta Know Me" to the mid-tempo groovers "Questions" and "I Can't Stop The Rain"... oh, and then there's the modern soul mini masterpiece "Rode By The Place [[Where We Used To Stay)" courtesy of Marv Johnson!

[marv2]

The version by Anacostia is the one I remember most. I like David's best however.

[TomatoTom123]

The version by Anacostia is the one I remember most. I like David's best however.

Yea, me too. I like the upbeat, disco style of David's version. And it's from 1975 when Van McCoy was in his Disco prime! And David Ruffin also happens to my all-time favourite singer, so that might help