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  1. #1

    Step Right Up.....Get Your Trump On!

    In the interest of fairness, I thought I'd start a thread for any Trump supporters or voters to express themselves in a fair and balanced environment. I will do my best to keep it civil.

    I have several friends who voted for Trump.....none of them are really what I would call Trump supporters.....but I know a few of them also.

    One gentleman is a good friend and former colleague. He's a 6 foot five former Army Ranger, long time Repub and is one of the foremost experts on Memorial Day/Decoration Day History in the country....and an SNL fan.

    He basically said he didn't do it for Trump or the Party......but he put that bag over his head, held his nose......and voted for the Supreme Court Implication.

    I've known him long and well enough to believe him.

    His sons are pretty good musicians....especially the banjo player. I gave him a copy of my fave Roots and Blues Boxed Set and we both used to play songs from them at work......Surprisingly this is one of our faves. Anachronistic but catchy.


  2. #2
    .and voted for the Supreme Court Implication
    I truly believe THIS needs an explanation. Obviously he's not happy with a more liberal SCJ but what in hells bells is he looking for in a more conservative appointee?

    The few people I know who openly admitted to voting for the man were never really friends in the true sense of the word so dropping them from my radar was easy. I'm really curious how he explained in more detail his reasoning and why you accepted it.

  3. #3
    Let's start here......How do you argue with Pro-Lifers?

    Plus he's pro gun and anti Hillary.....especially he Foundation.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by destruction View Post
    Let's start here......How do you argue with Pro-Lifers?

    Plus he's pro gun and anti Hillary.....especially he Foundation.
    First of all a few quibbles...what is the opposite of Pro-Life? Most people I know who support a woman's right to choose are also pro-life.

    Whoever said anyone was going to take away his right to own a gun?

    HRC and the Foundation (which has done outstanding work) tells me he watches too much Fox News (minus Shep Smith)

    Bottom line for me, this person can't handle logic and reasoning but all of that pales in comparison with the great music discussions. shrugs Better you, than me!

  5. #5
    I was using shorthand….and you didn’t address the question.

    He did not explain it in detail.....and his point of view is not for my acceptance. We've known each other over 15 years.

    I don't base my friendships on or define people by politics.
    That would be neither reasonable or logical.

    No one told you anything…..you make it up as you go along....based on reason and logic.

    He has above average intelligence.

    I can't speak for him and I'll ask if he'd like to personally respond to you the next time I hear from him.

    One of the biggest problems we have in politics and society in this country is the lost art of compromise and the inability or refusal to value or understand opinions contrary to our own.

  6. #6
    Give me a sec, I'll be back to address this

  7. #7
    I can appreciate people with beliefs and convictions but I absolutely have a problem with someone who would allow those beliefs and convictions to blind him/her to ANYONE who uses hate, intolerance and lies to gain the confidence of those people. By voting for Trump he basically said eff you!

    He said his anti abortion stance, his dislike for HRC and her foundation are MORE important than caring about ALL people in this country. Bravo if you can overlook that....I'm not the one and will not apologize anymore than you will.

    This is one where we will have to agree to disagree!!!!
    Last edited by ms_m; 11-24-2016 at 06:34 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by destruction View Post
    In the interest of fairness, I thought I'd start a thread for any Trump supporters or voters to express themselves in a fair and balanced environment. I will do my best to keep it civil.

    I have several friends who voted for Trump.....none of them are really what I would call Trump supporters.....but I know a few of them also.

    One gentleman is a good friend and former colleague. He's a 6 foot five former Army Ranger, long time Repub and is one of the foremost experts on Memorial Day/Decoration Day History in the country....and an SNL fan.

    He basically said he didn't do it for Trump or the Party......but he put that bag over his head, held his nose......and voted for the Supreme Court Implication.

    I've known him long and well enough to believe him.

    His sons are pretty good musicians....especially the banjo player. I gave him a copy of my fave Roots and Blues Boxed Set and we both used to play songs from them at work......Surprisingly this is one of our faves. Anachronistic but catchy.

    And your 6feet 5 inch army captain friend will never ever have to make a choice about pregnancy which really bothers me when men claim to be pro life. Every woman I know whos had to make that choice says its the hardest decision a woman ever have to make. Trump and Pence will take that choice away which disgusts me.

    Roberta

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by destruction View Post
    Let's start here......How do you argue with Pro-Lifers?

    Plus he's pro gun and anti Hillary.....especially he Foundation.
    A lot of Drumpf voters sought excuses to vote for him. My brother-in-law, a Black man, said that he might vote for him based on his stance on abortion. He couldn't explain why the Republicans have raised this issue for two generations without fixing it. Nor why he would vote for the most debauched and amoral candidate imaginable to be a Christian standard bearer. He had no answer.

    Then he said that Clinton was a notorious liar, citing the non-criminal e-mail investigation and disproved Benghazi allegations. I told him five actual untruths told by Drumpf and also his record against people of color and he had no answer. Finally, he cited lies told on conservative radio about the deficit "exploding" under President Obama. I reminded him that not only did George Bush blow up the hard-won balanced budget, but he also left his predecessor with a recession and two unfunded wars. He shrugged. He also threw out a few lies about the Clinton Foundation while admitting that he didn't know or care to know about the documented malfeasance of the Trump Foundation.

    In a later conversation with my wife, he told her that Clinton had ordered the deaths of more than 100 political rivals. I am glad he didn't hit me up with that BS. I can't understand why Drumpf's words were accepted without question but people refused to take five minutes to Google search the most outlandish things about her.

    I'm sure that your friend didn't vote because of abortion. I'd suggest that he voted for him because he wanted to and that he felt sufficiently privileged that his threats against Black people, Mexicans, Muslims, Clinton, and literally a country full of others were less a concern for your friend and my brother-in-law than electing a woman to lead the country.

  10. #10
    thomas96 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    And your 6feet 5 inch army captain friend will never ever have to make a choice about pregnancy which really bothers me when men claim to be pro life. Every woman I know whos had to make that choice says its the hardest decision a woman ever have to make. Trump and Pence will take that choice away which disgusts me.

    Roberta
    I absolutely don't agree that if a woman is raped and gets pregnant that they shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion. That's ridiculous. But I don't think a woman who gets pregnant as a result of choices she made should be able to kill the baby to get out of the consequences. It's a terrible situation at that point if the child is unwanted because it's likely the child won't be raised as well as a planned and wanted child would be but the solution isn't to kill the baby. Solution is to teach young people not to put themselves in positions like that, not to keep arguing over it in the political sector. Only two justifications for killing babies in my opinion is the mother's health, and if the pregnancy was the result of a crime and the mother had nothing to do with getting pregnant.


    That being said, I don't think this is nearly a big enough issue that I'd pick a candidate over another based solely on that. I am strongly against one issue voters. Voters need to understand all the issues important to the country, and the candidates' stances on the issues and make an educated decision based on that. People that voted for Trump because they think Hillary is a criminal and people that voted for Hillary because they think Trump is a racist, sexist or whatever are equally bad in my opinion. And people need to look at all the important issues whether they affect them personally or not. For example, a tax system that either raises or lowers taxes for the top 1% has no affect on me, but I look at it and personally believe that the very rich should not be taxed unfairly. I like the flat tax idea, say 15%. Somebody making $10,000,000/year is already paying $1,500,000 in taxes per year at that point while somebody making $10,000 is paying $1,500. No reason at all to make the tax rate for the very rich to be more than for the middle class or anybody else. It makes no sense. Now that issue isn't nearly as big a deal as others to me when voting but I take it into account, as I take all the issues I can understand into account.

  11. #11
    Roberta,

    I agree with everything you said. Everything.
    Do you have any friends who feel differently from you on this issue for religious reasons?

    Thomas,

    I understand and agree with you on the One Issue thing.

    I understand and disagree with you on the flat tax thing....and I'll explain my view on that at another time.

    You other two other to mugs.....Really?
    You both have above average intelligence.....at least one of you knows I have an aversion to BS....but will not let that stop you.

    Jerry I understand your story and if that's all you wanted to say. Ok.

    To the the rest of you. Let's try again.

    Here is what I said in my INITIAL POST:

    "He basically said he didn't do it for Trump or the Party......but he put that bag over his head, held his nose......and voted for the Supreme Court Implication."

    Let's address that issue.....shall we?

    I'll start. Here is an except that I found on the net. Took me all of 30 seconds. This is an EXAMPLE of what I was referring to. Perhaps they are being sincere. Let's go the clip:

    ‘I want conservative laws’


    I cried when I left the polling location because I don’t like Trump at all. I was deeply saddened to vote for him. His personality, his mannerisms and his inexperience repulse me. I wish there had been another conservative choice without simply throwing away my vote. I know if I travel outside of the US I will be deeply disliked because of him.

    However, he is only a four-year investment and I am trusting in the checks and balances of our country to prevent him and his poor-judgment from damaging the country too much. Hopefully Trump will not affect my daily life.

    I personally do not have a gun but I strongly support the right to bear arms recognising it as a right that ensures protection from government tyranny. I am also against abortions.

    Trump has the opportunity to elect a supreme court member, maybe even two or three members considering the current health and age of some justices. Justices serve for a lifetime and I do not want the justices to be liberal. I want conservative laws therefore conservative justices.
    I can deal with a somewhat low four years, but I couldn’t deal with a supreme court that swings liberal and I couldn’t deal with losing gun rights. I hope the years fly by and that he will do as little damage as possible. I am deeply saddened by these options and I am not proud of our president in the least.


    Well?

  12. #12
    So he voted for Trump because Trump was the Republican candidate, and he wants a Republican government in charge. He didn't vote Trump because of Trump. He was just the way of getting a conservative government in charge, is that it?

    I mean, I disagree with him completely but I think I get it. Maybe. Lol
    Last edited by TomatoTom123; 11-26-2016 at 06:17 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas96 View Post
    I absolutely don't agree that if a woman is raped and gets pregnant that they shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion. That's ridiculous. But I don't think a woman who gets pregnant as a result of choices she made should be able to kill the baby to get out of the consequences. It's a terrible situation at that point if the child is unwanted because it's likely the child won't be raised as well as a planned and wanted child would be but the solution isn't to kill the baby. Solution is to teach young people not to put themselves in positions like that, not to keep arguing over it in the political sector. Only two justifications for killing babies in my opinion is the mother's health, and if the pregnancy was the result of a crime and the mother had nothing to do with getting pregnant.
    I get that thomas96, but where do you draw the line on this? How do you prove that a rape has definitely occurred? What if the woman says she was raped but the man denies it? If women can only get abortions when they have been raped will they start making up things, claiming they have been raped? Will there be court cases deciding if a rape had occurred and therefore if an abortion should be allowed? I don't know...

    Similarly, where do you draw the line on health? (These are not realistic) If the mother was going to lose the sight in one eye is it OK for her to abort? What if she would lose her left leg? What if she would become paralysed from the waist down? What if her and her baby would suffer significant brain damage? Or is it only OK to abort when the mother and/or baby would suffer life-threatening injuries? Again, I don't know...
    Last edited by TomatoTom123; 11-26-2016 at 06:18 AM.

  14. #14
    Des, I got it from the very first post but no matter how you slice it, he helped put a man in office that has been the BIGGEST liar and most divisive candidate I've ever seen in my life time and it's not like anyone didn't see the consequences of his actions prior to his being elected. Everyone has their own way of looking at religion but using it as an excuse to prop up hate doesn't do it for me.

    Thomas96, no one, and I do mean no one has a right to tell a woman what she can or can not do with her body. If having an abortion is wrong in the eyes of God, that is between her and her God, not her and any mortal man (or woman)!
    Last edited by ms_m; 11-26-2016 at 11:46 AM.

  15. #15
    thomas96 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    Thomas96, no one, and I do mean no one has a right to tell a woman what she can or can not do with her body. If having an abortion is wrong in the eyes of God, that is between her and her God, not her and any mortal man (or woman)!
    I'm not a strong religious person. I just believe if murdering someone in our society is illegal and wrong, then murdering a baby in the womb isn't much different. If a woman, or shall I say girl, makes poor decisions which result in life coming into this world, why should she have the right to take that life out of the world again? Once she's pregnant, it is no longer just her body.

    TomatoTom, yes it is a very complicated issue, and the best solution is really to teach young people so that unwanted pregnancies are prevented as much as possible.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas96 View Post
    I'm not a strong religious person. I just believe if murdering someone in our society is illegal and wrong, then murdering a baby in the womb isn't much different. If a woman, or shall I say girl, makes poor decisions which result in life coming into this world, why should she have the right to take that life out of the world again? Once she's pregnant, it is no longer just her body.

    TomatoTom, yes it is a very complicated issue, and the best solution is really to teach young people so that unwanted pregnancies are prevented as much as possible.
    To call it murder say's YOU have already decided when a fetus is considered sentient. I've seen scientist on both sides of the divide debate that point so at the end of the day, I still say it's between a woman and her God (if she believes in one) and if not, still her call and on her conscious. Not yours or anyone else.

    I agree with teaching against unwanted pregnancy as well as unwanted disease but sometime sh@# happens no matter what you teach.
    Last edited by ms_m; 11-26-2016 at 02:40 PM.

  17. #17
    thomas96 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    To call it murder say's YOU have already decided when a fetus is considered sentient.
    It's my opinion that the life begins at conception, and taking a human life away is murder. I haven't "decided" anything it's just one man's opinion.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas96 View Post
    I'm not a strong religious person. I just believe if murdering someone in our society is illegal and wrong, then murdering a baby in the womb isn't much different. If a woman, or shall I say girl, makes poor decisions which result in life coming into this world, why should she have the right to take that life out of the world again? Once she's pregnant, it is no longer just her body.

    TomatoTom, yes it is a very complicated issue, and the best solution is really to teach young people so that unwanted pregnancies are prevented as much as possible.
    So, consensual unprotected sex is the only way to get pregnant? Should victims of rape or incest be required to give birth? What if the pregnancy is a risk to the life of the mother? Or do those fetuses not count? Who will care for the babies? There is a very short line of volunteers to do it, certainly shorter than the line of people who believe it is a black and white moral issue.

    If you believe that there are conditions when it should be allowed, you lost your argument that it is murder. And what else do you, in a higher moral elevation, determine to be acceptable for those who feel differently? Do you believe in the death penalty? I think it's murder, but that's just me. You are entitled to your opinion, but to suggest that yours is more right than anyone else's is arrogance, not righteousness. SMH.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas96 View Post
    It's my opinion that the life begins at conception, and taking a human life away is murder. I haven't "decided" anything it's just one man's opinion.
    The day it is proven that a "child" (please note quotation marks) can survive at the point of conception, I'm all ears until then, I'll respect your opinion and you should give women the courtesy of respecting their right to choose!

  20. #20
    Phew... this is a deep issue

    I think it is probably natural to think that abortion is murder and I don't blame people for thinking that it is. But it isn't in my opinion. And if you believe that it is and that it shouldn't happen, what do you do next? Ban abortion? Allow abortion in a select few circumstances? Punish people who then try and have abortions?

    I wish it were as simple as teaching people to be careful and so forth, but it isn't. I wish that abortions didn't have to happen, but they do. When it comes down to it, it is the woman who has to give birth and then raise the child, so she should be able to choose.
    Last edited by TomatoTom123; 11-27-2016 at 04:09 PM.

  21. #21
    I'm not pro abortion, I'm pro choice and I say that as a woman who 30 plus years ago chose to have an abortion. If it's natural for people to see that as murder then it's natural to think of me as a murderer. People can think what they will I really don't care. I answer to my God on this issue and God is and will be my only judge and jury.

    Punish people who then try and have abortions?
    Left to Pence and the Republicans that's EXACTLY what will happen, be it a complete reversal of Roe vs Wade or throwing the issue back to the States which would still place undue pressure and hardship on many women.

  22. #22
    thomas96 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    So, consensual unprotected sex is the only way to get pregnant? Should victims of rape or incest be required to give birth? What if the pregnancy is a risk to the life of the mother? Or do those fetuses not count? Who will care for the babies? There is a very short line of volunteers to do it, certainly shorter than the line of people who believe it is a black and white moral issue.

    If you believe that there are conditions when it should be allowed, you lost your argument that it is murder. And what else do you, in a higher moral elevation, determine to be acceptable for those who feel differently? Do you believe in the death penalty? I think it's murder, but that's just me. You are entitled to your opinion, but to suggest that yours is more right than anyone else's is arrogance, not righteousness. SMH.
    Please read my previous posts instead of looking at this one in a bubble, because I don't want to repeat myself.

  23. #23
    thomas96 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    I wish it were as simple as teaching people to be careful and so forth, but it isn't. I wish that abortions didn't have to happen, but they do. When it comes down to it, it is the woman who has to give birth and then raise the child, so she should be able to choose.
    Well it is that simple, but of course it's not easy to do as young people are often difficult to influence positively. A woman who chose to make decisions that resulted in a pregnancy already made their choice then. In that respect I am both pro-choice and pro-life. Make the right choices before trouble arises and you've got no problems.

    This all being said I don't think this is such a major issue that it should have a large effect on elections or the direction of the country. I don't lose my mind when I hear about an abortion, I just have my opinions on it and that's what I'd like to see happen, but of course it's not that easy and I understand that.

  24. #24
    thomas96 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    If you believe that there are conditions when it should be allowed, you lost your argument that it is murder. And what else do you, in a higher moral elevation, determine to be acceptable for those who feel differently? Do you believe in the death penalty? I think it's murder, but that's just me. You are entitled to your opinion, but to suggest that yours is more right than anyone else's is arrogance, not righteousness. SMH.
    Not really. There are conditions where I believe killing someone is allowed. If my life or my children's lives were in danger I believe I should be able to do whatever is necessary to protect myself and my family. I do believe the death penalty is murder, but absolutely justified in certain situations.

    I welcome you, Jerry Oz, to point out where exactly I suggested that my opinion is more right than someone else's or to point out an instance in which I showed "higher moral elevation." I'm simply sharing my opinions. Choose to do with them what you will. I gladly read others opinions here and take them into consideration.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas96 View Post
    Well it is that simple, but of course it's not easy to do as young people are often difficult to influence positively. A woman who chose to make decisions that resulted in a pregnancy already made their choice then. In that respect I am both pro-choice and pro-life. Make the right choices before trouble arises and you've got no problems.
    Ugh, I don't know. I don't think it can be that simple. To me, the very fact that we're having this debate is proof that it isn't that simple. Abortions happen. Even with the correct teaching and positive influence, abortions will still happen.

    And, again, this just raises more questions. If a 16-year-old girl gets pregnant, should she be allowed to have an abortion? What if she's been properly and correctly warned of what could happen? What about a 14-year-old, if she's been taught about being careful? (They start sex ed that early) And how should people be taught to be careful? With threats that if they aren't, they will have to give birth to a child they don't want?

  26. #26
    To Des:

    Trump wants to take us back to the dark ages and that's more than just an opinion on my part. Picking out one or two issues to throw your lot in with this man defies all logic and reason which is exactly what people did by supporting this fool. The freedoms of people, no matter their race, color creed etc. should not be based on emotion.

    Hate me for whatever reason or don't hate me, your choice but when you allow hate to impede on my inalienable rights, you and I are going to have a serious problem, 15 year friendship or naught!

    To Err body else:

    Trump’s impending presidency sparks surge in calls to Planned Parenthood
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/trum...ed-parenthood/

    Pope Francis jumped into the abortion debate this week, too.
    On Monday, he said he would grant Roman Catholic priests the right to forgive abortion, even though he called it "a grave sin, since it puts an end to an innocent life."
    "However, I can and must state that there is no sin that God's mercy cannot reach and wipe away when it finds a repentant heart seeking to be reconciled with the Father," said the pope.
    Whether I agree it is a sin or not, I'm not even Catholic and can RESPECT this response.

    Just found a repeat of my Boyz win on Thanksgiving so you GUYS continue to debate what women can and cannot do with their bodies. I'm out!
    Last edited by ms_m; 11-26-2016 at 05:43 PM.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    So you GUYS continue to debate what women can and cannot do with their bodies. I'm out!
    OK, you win! Lol

  28. #28
    thomas96 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    Ugh, I don't know. I don't think it can be that simple. To me, the very fact that we're having this debate is proof that it isn't that simple. Abortions happen. Even with the correct teaching and positive influence, abortions will still happen.

    And, again, this just raises more questions. If a 16-year-old girl gets pregnant, should she be allowed to have an abortion? What if she's been properly and correctly warned of what could happen? What about a 14-year-old, if she's been taught about being careful? (They start sex ed that early) And how should people be taught to be careful? With threats that if they aren't, they will have to give birth to a child they don't want?
    I think we're getting caught up in semantics here with simple and easy. I think it's extremely difficult to make happen but it's a simple concept.

    Even children need to learn that there are consequences for their decisions. Lets say a 14 year old gets pregnant and then gets an abortion. There would then be a punishment, though obviously not as severe as if an adult got an abortion. Just like with a kid committing murder. Though I don't think the punishment should be very severe at all. More as something that will make it so people think through their decisions before they make them. Say a woman is thinking about having an unprotected one night stand and thinks "oh if I get pregnant I'll just get an abortion." If abortions were illegal and carried a punishment she may think instead "if I get pregnant I have to either have the child or get an abortion and take x punishment." This may make her think more about what she can do to protect herself against getting pregnant if it's unwanted by going on birth control AND using proper protection and inspecting it, etc.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas96 View Post
    I think we're getting caught up in semantics here with simple and easy. I think it's extremely difficult to make happen but it's a simple concept.

    Even children need to learn that there are consequences for their decisions. Lets say a 14 year old gets pregnant and then gets an abortion. There would then be a punishment, though obviously not as severe as if an adult got an abortion. Just like with a kid committing murder. Though I don't think the punishment should be very severe at all. More as something that will make it so people think through their decisions before they make them. Say a woman is thinking about having an unprotected one night stand and thinks "oh if I get pregnant I'll just get an abortion." If abortions were illegal and carried a punishment she may think instead "if I get pregnant I have to either have the child or get an abortion and take x punishment." This may make her think more about what she can do to protect herself against getting pregnant if it's unwanted by going on birth control AND using proper protection and inspecting it, etc.
    Yeah, I don't know. At the end of the day, it isn't murder, there shouldn't be a punishment for it, and it's a woman's choice. That's about it for me.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by destruction View Post
    In the interest of fairness, I thought I'd start a thread for any Trump supporters or voters to express themselves in a fair and balanced environment. I will do my best to keep it civil.

    I have several friends who voted for Trump.....none of them are really what I would call Trump supporters.....but I know a few of them also.

    One gentleman is a good friend and former colleague. He's a 6 foot five former Army Ranger, long time Repub and is one of the foremost experts on Memorial Day/Decoration Day History in the country....and an SNL fan.

    He basically said he didn't do it for Trump or the Party......but he put that bag over his head, held his nose......and voted for the Supreme Court Implication.

    I've known him long and well enough to believe him.

    His sons are pretty good musicians....especially the banjo player. I gave him a copy of my fave Roots and Blues Boxed Set and we both used to play songs from them at work......Surprisingly this is one of our faves. Anachronistic but catchy.

    Trump’s finger soon will hover over the nuclear button; will he be ready?
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/trum...mments/#disqus


    ...and I love this comment, wish I had written it:
    The not sworn in temporary occupier of the office will never be ready...He hasn't the strength of character or intellectual capacity to find out what is required..He is shirking the intelligence briefings already...Cowardly fat, lazy, stupid fraudulent basta!
    The Nation and the World are in dire danger...
    Trump's appointments are widely diversified. As a nation, we have never
    seen a more diversified group of White Supremacists, Dominionists, War
    Hawks and general loose cannons. I guess this is what is called
    draining the swamp so all that sludge is visible.
    Letters To California Mosques Praise Donald Trump, Promise Genocide
    “You Muslims are a vile and filthy people.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b000af95ee61bd

    Donald Trump’s Cabinet Is On Track To Be The Least Experienced In Modern History
    The president-elect may believe that’s a good thing. But governance experts are alarmed.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b000af95edf18c

    The articles above don't even scratch the surface of the numerous things this country and it's people should have concerns over.

    This isn't some joke, or form of entertainment and I HAVE NOT perfected the ability of turning the other cheek to anyone who didn't see a vote for Trump would cause serious harm to anyone who is not a 1 per center or at the very least wealthy enough to ride this madness out fairly unscathed, whatever their political affiliation.

    Trump and his inability to have the slightest idea or understanding of what he has gotten us all into is REAL and the people he's surrounding himself are not only scary but for the most part, full blown nutso!

    Would I love to be proven wrong about Trump? Hell to the yeah but even if that's the case, the evil he has unleashed will NOT go quietly back into the night and under the rocks.

    The decision to drop kick a friend who supported Trump and the evil he brought to the forefront would not be a political decision but a moral and ethical decision. More importantly, a decision based on self preservation because if a friend cares more about his personal wedge issues than he does for the country and it's people at large, having my back would be in very serious jeopardy.
    Last edited by ms_m; 11-27-2016 at 07:23 AM.

  31. #31
    So you have no republican friends.

    What did you think of the last Bush presidency?

    Do you have those same feelings of animosity towards people you know who did not vote for Clinton? If all of the Clinton supporters had voted we would not be having this conversation. Why blame the Republicans for voting their party and not blame the Clinton SUPPORTERS who did not vote for their candidate. Maybe I'm dense....but I don't understand the logic.

    Self Preservation is the most basic of the needs.

    So what is there to preserve? We only need look at our life to see/find the answer. We need to protect and maintain all the things that we have achieved in life. And how do we do that? By protecting ourselves. By preserving ourselves. By caring for ourselves. And protect what? Preserve what? Care for what?
    The following list is a good start

    our esteem and thereby our confidence and image
    our values that are the cornerstone of our life
    our motivation that gets us to do the things that we do
    our talents which help us to achieve our goals
    our growth that has made us the person we are today
    our development that enhances and boosts our efforts at improvement
    how we manage ourselves - maintain our efforts that we not only keep what we have but accomplish more and meet new challenges
    our discipline that helps keep us on the path we walk
    our control that helps keep the elements of our life (and this list is an important part of that) in balance and helping us move forward
    our personality that we are able to live, able to give, able to share, able to contribute
    our behavior so that it moves along with our growth and development
    our life that it be fresh, renewed and bright, and us in harmony with it
    our attitude that it be good and wholesome, free yet flexible, strong and determined, giving and resolute

  32. #32
    I said in previous post I had issues with people that not only voted for Trump but that voted third party, or chose not to vote at all. However, this thread was about making a safe space for Trump voters and considering the lies, hate and over the top divisive tactics he used, I have a serious problem with that. A vote for Trump whatever your reason was a vote for racism, a vote for misogyny a vote against gays, Muslims, Latino's...OTHERS.

    If you honestly don't see that, I love you madly bro but yeah, you're DENSE!

  33. #33
    Questions Trump voters didn't think were important to ask:
    How much will that wall cost and how will he compel Mexico to pay for it?

    How will he fund his plan to put 25,000 troops on the ground to fight ISIL and will he have a supportive coalition when most countries are more set to defend their homeland than fight a foreign war?

    Why would he make it more expensive to manufacture his products in other countries in order to force himself to make them here instead? Why wouldn't he just pay the difference to make America great again?

    What countries are on his list of hostile nations? France? England? Germany? They each have a high immigrant population from the Middle East. Will they be extremely vetted? How will you know if they're lying on that stupid questionnaire?

    Why exactly isn't America great?

    What facts support the crime rate to be at a record level that undocumented Mexicans are murderers and rapists at some high level?

    Why if they feel they are economically disadvantaged, should they support a man whose plan (at best) will take 5-10 years to come to fruition over a woman who pledged to raise their income at their current jobs and ease the burden of sending their children to school?

    What are you really mad about?

    Let's be honest. People said they didn't trust her but he's the most shady and untrustworthy public figure - let alone politician - in our lifetime, so trust wasn't truly an issue. People said that her foundation was shady in spite of being highly praised for both its mission and its handling of money, but he used his to pay off litigants in court cases and to make state investigations "go away". People said that they were anti-abortion, but I guess that means they're pro-greed, pro-graft, pro-sexual assault, pro-tying up the court system in baseless litigation, and pro-hate. They also suggest that as a business man, he has a better idea on how to run the economy even though his primary means of keeping afloat is to have controlled obsolescence of his business so they they go out of business in a timely basis, giving him profits but leaving tax payers to pay for their loss.

    And one final thing, there are no factories in rural Pennsylvania (for example), there have never been any, and there will never be any. If a high number of Trump voters were from rural areas, why is the media painting their complaints to be economic? Nobody had a well-reasoned excuse to vote for him, just excuses. It wasn't about any of the talking points and whether they admit it or not, women and peoples of color have just forgotten their place in the world.

    But that's my opinion. With that said, if the shoe fits, then wear it.
    Last edited by Jerry Oz; 11-28-2016 at 06:00 AM.

  34. #34
    Obama reduced the deficit. He picked a Supreme Court nominee who was respected by Republicans and Democrats and for his integrity but the childish politicians decided to not bring it to a vote because Obama, a Democrat nominated him. George Bush deleted 22 million emails and nobody said anything. HRC NEVER said she wanted take anyone's guns but maybe some more background checks would be nice and less assault weapons. I think the parents of the Newtown children murdered deserve that at least. Obamacare gave healthcare to 20 million people. Most of the developed nations of world had healthcare ages ago and a minimal number of gun deaths. When will we really look at ourselves and our values??

  35. #35
    Don't know any Blacks who voted for Trump, but I know an awful lot of Whites and a couple of Mexicans who did.

    Most of these people told me that they voted for Trump because they didn't trust Hillary, and one really believes Trump will improve our lives. But, the overall reason is that they didn't trust Clinton.

    I was a Sanders supporter but voted for Clinton because there was no way I would ever vote for Trump for all the suspected reasons.

  36. #36
    My brother-in-law wanted to vote for Trump but was keeping his options open. His excuse was Clinton's stance on abortion and the fact that he couldn't trust her. I ran down a dozen reasons why Trump proved himself to be a racist, a liar, and the last person that a Christian Black man should support but it all came back to "yeah, but..." I never knew him to be that stupid and unsophisticated in his political leanings and now, after 27 years, I'm seeing him in a wholly different light.

    People who voted for him were willing to use any excuse to vote against her. She never really had a chance with the media, FBI, progressives, and Russians forming the most unholy political alliance ever.

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