The old becomes the new again right?

**Passett** · 10-17-2016, 07:53 PM

When will real singing groups and bands
Return???

**Passett** · 10-17-2016, 07:57 PM

I miss real singing and bands like from
Back in the day without all the gimmicky
Singers. Will the new Aretha, Gladys
And Supreme Take your places.

**TomatoTom123** · 10-17-2016, 08:28 PM

I sure hope so! Some of today's music I cannot stand [[it is gimmicky, you're right!), most of it is very "average" and the stuff that I do like is overplayed and overplayed until I dislike it, Lol!

**lakeside** · 10-17-2016, 09:12 PM

I agree 100%. To help ease the pain....here's a new group of singers singing the old stuff, and quite well I might add. I recommended this CD a month or so ago [[in case you might not have seen my posting). This is old school singing with a real band. I've barely had this CD out of my player. Yea, I'm old school with the technology, too.
https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Love-Hel...s=mellow+moods

**marv2** · 10-17-2016, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Passett

When will real singing groups and bands
Return???

I don't know,but I can't wait. I feel strongly that cuts to school music programs over the last 25 years or so has led us to where we are now. There are'nt many new bands because there are fewer people that actually know how to play instruments. Singers often came out of the Church. Today, many young people do not attend church, let alone sing in a choir.

**soulster** · 10-17-2016, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Passett

I miss real singing and bands like from
Back in the day without all the gimmicky
Singers. Will the new Aretha, Gladys
And Supreme Take your places.

They are still around in the form of people like Adele, Bruno Mars, Usher, Meghan Trainer, and a few new ones that I can't think of the name of right now. You just have to listen to the stuff the younger generation listens to to find it. Just don't expect old-school crooning that came out of the church and street corners, though.

**midnightman** · 10-18-2016, 02:26 AM

There are still groups but labels push solo acts more frequently right now.

**arr&bee** · 10-18-2016, 06:36 PM

Too much technology,not enough natural singing talent and as someone said,folks don;t play instuments anymore,it's cheaper to just plug in a machine and let someone whale over a music track...sad!!!!

**Jerry Oz** · 10-18-2016, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by soulster

They are still around in the form of people like Adele, Bruno Mars, Usher, Meghan Trainer, and a few new ones that I can't think of the name of right now. You just have to listen to the stuff the younger generation listens to to find it. Just don't expect old-school crooning that came out of the church and street corners, though.

Yep. There are always great vocalists. John Legend and Sam Smith are great singers. And K-Ci and JoJo Hailey have been the best soul singers of the last 25 years although few consider them as such.

**TomatoTom123** · 10-18-2016, 07:43 PM

This guy called Eli "Paperboy" Reed really intrigued me. He is a current singer, but not a major star or household name. His style is definitely soul [[you could say classic or vintage soul, even) but he's actually white.

I listened to some of the stuff on his 2010 album [[I know, ancient!), Come And Get It, and I was surprised to find that it was rather good!!

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/eli-p...d-mn0001550908

This video is both fantastic and confusing in equal measure, LOL

**arr&bee** · 10-18-2016, 07:55 PM

Ok,not bad.

**Jerry Oz** · 10-18-2016, 11:10 PM

I'm a huge fan of an outfit called Postmodern Jukebox. They rework modern pop songs into other musical genres [[jazz, Motown, soul, bluegrass, polka, etc.). One of the artists that sings with them frequently is Morgan James and she is authentic. I'll post some of their videos when I'm not on a tablet, but here's a link to one her best songs with them.
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=8gO_lxThc1M

**Motown Eddie** · 10-19-2016, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Passett

When will real singing groups and bands
Return???

Here's a real singer & a real band for ya; Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings.
https://youtu.be/IlPE1rEdAdI

**thommg** · 10-19-2016, 01:31 PM

I would add Pink to the list of real talents.

**arr&bee** · 10-21-2016, 11:59 AM

One of the problems of today's[stars???]is that most of em sound alike..back in the day you could tell a curtis song from a smokey song or an lead by eddie,but today???good luck with that.

**TomatoTom123** · 10-21-2016, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

One of the problems of today's[stars???]is that most of em sound alike..back in the day you could tell a curtis song from a smokey song or an lead by eddie,but today???good luck with that.

Yeah, I agree. I've always wondered about that though. Does it all sound the same because you don't like it? I mean, I played my younger brother [[who is mostly into today's music) some Motown a while back and he said "it all sounds the same".

[[I know... he is a complete idiot, LOL)

**Jerry Oz** · 10-21-2016, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

One of the problems of today's[stars???]is that most of em sound alike..back in the day you could tell a curtis song from a smokey song or an lead by eddie,but today???good luck with that.

Well, today, the producer is the performer rather than the artist. Some songs are recorded one line at a time with the producer splicing the best take of each line into the best possible version. They are effectually sampling the singer instead of letting him or her sing the whole tune.

Let's not get into how much they use effects to alter the voice so they sing on key and minimize errors. They can literally make anybody sound good

**soulster** · 10-21-2016, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

Well, today, the producer is the performer rather than the artist. Some songs are recorded one line at a time with the producer splicing the best take of each line into the best possible version. They are effectually sampling the singer instead of letting him or her sing the whole tune.

Hmmmm...sounds exactly like what Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers did.

Nothing today's pop producers do is really any different than what they did back in the 60s and 70s. The only thing today's producers have that they didn't have back then is Pro Tools and Autotune.

**marv2** · 10-21-2016, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by soulster

Hmmmm...sounds exactly like what Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers did.

Nothing today's pop producers do is really any different than what they did back in the 60s and 70s. The only thing today's producers have that they didn't have back then is Pro Tools and Autotune.

I hate Autotune. You usually can tell when it is being employed.

**TomatoTom123** · 10-22-2016, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

I hate Autotune. You usually can tell when it is being employed.

Yeah. At least with singers from the '60s and '70s you can know fo sure there is no autotune involved!

**splanky** · 10-22-2016, 06:20 AM

I like Morgan James with Postmodern Jukebox too, their cover of JB's It's Man's World
is on point and actually I'm a bigger fan of their guest jazz harpist Brandee Younger...Anyway,
there are still a number of singers making music I enjoy, India Arie, Somi, Lianne Las Havas,
Liz Wright, the still bringing it Leela James and the often overlooked Alice Smith and I have to
agree with Marv, I mollyfocking HATE autotune!!!!.....Okay, I said it. I also like some of the
stuff Solange Knowles is doing....

**soulster** · 10-22-2016, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

I hate Autotune. You usually can tell when it is being employed.

But, remember, it isn't only used to cover up for a lesser singer, it is also used for a desired effect. For example, Usher and Rihanna, excellent singers, used it for effect because it's the contemporary "sound". And, there are many, including those two, who don't use it at all.

Autotune is used because there are singers who demand 100% perfection. They don't want to have a note that is a bit "off". Today's younger audiences are also used to it.

In our day, when a band played, they might start off a song and then start rushing. It's why, when the technology became available, instruments were sampled so the tempo and pitch would be the same throughout. It also made editing easier. It makes the music boring, IMO, but that's what today's audiences expect.

**Jerry Oz** · 10-22-2016, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by soulster

Hmmmm...sounds exactly like what Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers did.

Nothing today's pop producers do is really any different than what they did back in the 60s and 70s. The only thing today's producers have that they didn't have back then is Pro Tools and Autotune.

I didn't know that about Rodgers and Edwards, but it explains why their productions were/are instantly recognizable, which falls in line with this thread. Or am I the only one here who thinks that "Upside Down" and "I'm Coming Out" were really just Chic songs with Diana Ross singing as a guest vocalist?

To be honest, their heavy reliance on tandem vocals and cadenced singing arrangements covered up for the singers in a lot of their songs, much like producers protect the heavily-effected singers of today. The big thing today that influences what we old heads think is songs that sound alike is that so many skilled producers can do everything. I kind of miss bands who played actual instruments. There was a diversity in their sound as opposed to what one person can make electronically.

In my opinion, Stevie and Prince were the greatest performers who could produce songs by themselves, but their collaborations made for many of their best records.

Oh, and Sia is another remarkable modern artist. Was GaGa mentioned?

**Jerry Oz** · 10-22-2016, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by splanky

I like Morgan James with Postmodern Jukebox too, their cover of JB's It's Man's World
is on point and actually I'm a bigger fan of their guest jazz harpist Brandee Younger...Anyway,
there are still a number of singers making music I enjoy, India Arie, Somi, Lianne Las Havas,
Liz Wright, the still bringing it Leela James and the often overlooked Alice Smith and I have to
agree with Marv, I mollyfocking HATE autotune!!!!.....Okay, I said it. I also like some of the
stuff Solange Knowles is doing....

I'm going to do a PMJ thread. More people should know about them.

**nysister** · 10-22-2016, 06:23 PM

[QUOTE=marv2;353020]I don't know,but I can't wait. I feel strongly that cuts to school music programs over the last 25 years or so has led us to where we are now. There are'nt many new bands because there are fewer people that actually know how to play instruments. Singers often came out of the Church. Today, many young people do not attend church, let alone sing in a choir.[/QU

So true. There was a time in public schools where music class was mandatory but the music and art departments were cut and never reinstated. I was in the school band in 5th grade, playing an instrument in public school in New York City!

**ralpht** · 10-23-2016, 12:30 PM

I detest Autotune. When I produced a singer, "autotune" was "sing the damn song until you get it right."

**marv2** · 10-23-2016, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by splanky

I like Morgan James with Postmodern Jukebox too, their cover of JB's It's Man's World
is on point and actually I'm a bigger fan of their guest jazz harpist Brandee Younger...Anyway,
there are still a number of singers making music I enjoy, India Arie, Somi, Lianne Las Havas,
Liz Wright, the still bringing it Leela James and the often overlooked Alice Smith and I have to
agree with Marv, I mollyfocking HATE autotune!!!!.....Okay, I said it. I also like some of the
stuff Solange Knowles is doing....

Love India Arie!

**marv2** · 10-23-2016, 12:48 PM

[QUOTE=nysister;354044]

Originally Posted by marv2

I don't know,but I can't wait. I feel strongly that cuts to school music programs over the last 25 years or so has led us to where we are now. There are'nt many new bands because there are fewer people that actually know how to play instruments. Singers often came out of the Church. Today, many young people do not attend church, let alone sing in a choir.[/QU

So true. There was a time in public schools where music class was mandatory but the music and art departments were cut and never reinstated. I was in the school band in 5th grade, playing an instrument in public school in New York City!

Yes Sister, I remember when everyone in elementary school learned to play an instrument even if it were the old plastic recorders. We all had music classes too where you sang a variety of music. I even knew how to sing "Ave Maria" by the 3rd Grade! LOL!!!

**marv2** · 10-23-2016, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by ralpht

I detest Autotune. When I produced a singer, "autotune" was "sing the damn song until you get it right."

Exactly! To use "autotune" is to cheat.......everyone! The singer would be incapable of singing live and even coming close to the recording.

**TomatoTom123** · 10-23-2016, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by ralpht

I detest Autotune. When I produced a singer, "autotune" was "sing the damn song until you get it right."

LOL, too right Ralph! Actually, when did autotune come about, when did artists start using it?

**ralpht** · 10-23-2016, 06:00 PM

Maybe ten or fifteen years ago I think, Tom. I remember these young guys getting into Pro Tools and other computer mediums that had the ability. They used to brag about using it. SAD

**Jerry Oz** · 10-23-2016, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Exactly! To use "autotune" is to cheat.......everyone! The singer would be incapable of singing live and even coming close to the recording.

Which might explain why so many elect to lip synch. It kills me when I see artists jumping around on stage with no modulation in their voice levels. You can't even hear it when they are gasping for air while sounding very much like they do on their records.

**soulster** · 10-24-2016, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

Which might explain why so many elect to lip synch. It kills me when I see artists jumping around on stage with no modulation in their voice levels. You can't even hear it when they are gasping for air while sounding very much like they do on their records.

Well, they would sound terrible if they tried to sing while dancing around. Depending on the artist, people come to a concert to SEE the person. They come to SEE a stage performance. They can HEAR the song anytime.

**soulster** · 10-24-2016, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

I didn't know that about Rodgers and Edwards, but it explains why their productions were/are instantly recognizable, which falls in line with this thread.

Sister Sledge revealed that they were fed the lyrics line by line. They would get a line, they would record it. Next line, same thing, and so on. The reason they did that is so the singers wouldn't improvise or over-sing. Nile 'n Nard were exact. They wanted a certain result and that's how they got it.

Or am I the only one here who thinks that "Upside Down" and "I'm Coming Out" were really just Chic songs with Diana Ross singing as a guest vocalist?

On the other hand, Diana Ross wanted to try new things when they recorded that album. They let her loose on the vocals, as evidenced on the original Bob Clearmountain or "Chic" mix of the album [[you do have it, don't you?). The reason Motown/Ross decided to go in and change it was precisely because it sounded like a Chic record with her as a guest singer. That Clearmountain version has been out for over a decade. You can easily buy it. Listening to it also gives you an interesting insight of how records are made, and how the producer and mix can make or break a recording. Same thing with the "Detroit" mix of Marvin gaye's "What's Going On" album.

To be honest, their heavy reliance on tandem vocals and cadenced singing arrangements covered up for the singers in a lot of their songs, much like producers protect the heavily-effected singers of today. The big thing today that influences what we old heads think is songs that sound alike is that so many skilled producers can do everything. I kind of miss bands who played actual instruments. There was a diversity in their sound as opposed to what one person can make electronically.

Don't kid yourself. There was a lot of copy-cak, cookie-cutter music back in our day, too.

In my opinion, Stevie and Prince were the greatest performers who could produce songs by themselves, but their collaborations made for many of their best records.

There are many of them, not just those two.

**ralpht** · 10-24-2016, 11:54 AM

In case you guys missed this video, you may find it interesting.

https://youtu.be/A9uiouUw2PY

**thommg** · 10-24-2016, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by soulster

Autotune is used because there are singers who demand 100% perfection. They don't want to have a note that is a bit "off". Today's younger audiences are also used to it.

Using Autotune and creating a "perfect" recording is what robs the songs of emotion and and underlying connection with the singer. There are many "blemishes" on original Motown recordings that we accept as part of the excitement of the recording.

**jsmith** · 10-24-2016, 02:47 PM

Eli 'Paperboy' Reed is quite well known. His records / CD's sell well & he tours all over.
When he does gigs in the UK & Europe, he usually sells out but then he's not at the big arena show stage yet.
If a decent record company got behind him, he'd do great.

**Guy** · 10-24-2016, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by splanky

I like Morgan James with Postmodern Jukebox too, their cover of JB's It's Man's World
is on point and actually I'm a bigger fan of their guest jazz harpist Brandee Younger...Anyway,
there are still a number of singers making music I enjoy, India Arie, Somi, Lianne Las Havas,
Liz Wright, the still bringing it Leela James and the often overlooked Alice Smith and I have to
agree with Marv, I mollyfocking HATE autotune!!!!.....Okay, I said it. I also like some of the
stuff Solange Knowles is doing....

I love Alice Smith! Her voice is spine-tingling. I've only recently discovered Lianne La Havas and she's great. As is Lizz Wright. I'd add Gregory Porter, Bilal and Corinne Bailey Rae to the list of contemporary artists with genuine talent.

**marv2** · 10-26-2016, 01:48 AM

I do like Ledisi. Janelle Monae is a good singer as well.

**arr&bee** · 10-27-2016, 04:27 PM

We have to be fair though,there's talent in every generation,now having said that i'm gonna say this and i may not be the only one here who feels this way...from the years...[1946-the inkspots with bill kenney]to the[80's with m.j.]and i'm not gonna list all the great ones because it's already known but in those five decades more great singing talent came about then at any other time since!!

**ms_m** · 11-05-2016, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

We have to be fair though,there's talent in every generation,now having said that i'm gonna say this and i may not be the only one here who feels this way...from the years...[1946-the inkspots with bill kenney]to the[80's with m.j.]and i'm not gonna list all the great ones because it's already known but in those five decades more great singing talent came about then at any other time since!!

but name me one modern day song that you will be able to remember in 5-10 years....the vocal talent is there but....

I'm sorry folks but super greed ruin the game. Yes it was always about the money but not to the extent it is today and Marv is correct in that the de-funding of music programs in schools didn't help the situation. Kids today [[for the most part) would not know an off key note if it slapped them across the head. Our day is gone...if it ever comes back we'll be dead. Not saying there isn't good music to be found but you really have to look for it. Back in the day it was just there!

I use to like Bruno Mars until I heard something he did recently....very disappointed. It is what it is. shrugs

**splanky** · 11-05-2016, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by ms_m

but name me one modern day song that you will be able to remember in 5-10 years....the vocal talent is there but....
[/I]

Of the singers I currently listen to I can think of quite a few songs I'll enjoy until my ticket
is punched...

https://youtu.be/WOvqbACRKsM

but I guess that's just me. I agree with much of what's being said here but I think the notion
that there is no more real music being made is ridiculous. I'm constantly finding new stuff to
listen to as well as older stuff I may have missed but although I like everyone, like to visit
the past sometimes, I don't want to live there...

**ms_m** · 11-05-2016, 09:00 AM

What's up Splank?

Give me a few examples. That's not me being snarky but curious to check some things out I may and probably missed. I love the music from the past but I'm old enough to KNOW...the good old days was not what's it's currently being cracked up to be so, no living in the past for me...but enjoying the music from back in my day....ahhhh...now that's like drinking a fine wine. Just keeps getting better with age!

**ms_m** · 11-05-2016, 09:33 AM

Your girl Alice has a nice voice but sorry, the song isn't going to be stuck in my head the rest of the day....LOL
Again, I agree there is decent music to be found if you really look for it but some things will never be duplicated....that's just the way it is. I was listening to Nate King Cole recently and dayum...are you really going to be able to get that kind of feeling with Alice a year from now?

**ms_m** · 11-05-2016, 09:51 AM

Oh and BTW, I've never bought any Lady GaGa and probably never will but even I can admit she can sing and knows how to deliver a song. But nothing I've heard [[except the duets she did with Tony Bennett) will stick with me past the first listen. The only contemporary artist I can think of whose music will stick with me is Amy Winehouse...and she's gone. shrugs

**splanky** · 11-05-2016, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by ms_m

Your girl Alice has a nice voice but sorry, the song isn't going to be stuck in my head the rest of the day....LOL
Again, I agree there is decent music to be found if you really look for it but some things will never be duplicated....that's just the way it is. I was listening to Nate King Cole recently and dayum...are you really going to be able to get that kind of feeling with Alice a year from now?

I can only tell you what I like of the newer music, M. I loved Nat King Cole too, have much of his stuff but the thing is he died. Like so many of my favorites so I can only enjoy them in
retrospect. I don't care if say,...Somi or Leela James or Latasha Lee or Andra Day are not the
giants Aretha, Patti or even Diana became, I can enjoy them now, watch how they develop
their careers and see and hear them now. As far as Alice Smith is concerned, I wasn't crazy
about the instrumentation on her first release, this being the second, but for me personally,
her voice, her singing, her phrasing and range...yea, I'd say I'm permanently smitten...I know
you're partial to the guys, tho. It might be a bit outside of your range but have you heard
Gregory Porter?...

Oh, and definitely check out Latasha Lee....

**ms_m** · 11-05-2016, 10:33 AM

I've GOT to go but yeah I am partial to the guys.

Gregory Porter sounds familiar and I'm not sure about Latasha Lee but that's kinda my point....even if I've heard these artists and liked them, they just don't stick with me...more to come when I get back.

**Jerry Oz** · 11-05-2016, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by ms_m

but name me one modern day song that you will be able to remember in 5-10 years....the vocal talent is there but....

I'm sorry folks but super greed ruin the game. Yes it was always about the money but not to the extent it is today and Marv is correct in that the de-funding of music programs in schools didn't help the situation. Kids today [[for the most part) would not know an off key note if it slapped them across the head. Our day is gone...if it ever comes back we'll be dead. Not saying there isn't good music to be found but you really have to look for it. Back in the day it was just there!

I use to like Bruno Mars until I heard something he did recently....very disappointed. It is what it is. shrugs

I'm not a big fan of today's music but "All Of Me" by John Legend immediately came to mind when you asked for one song. There are many more, but I get your point.

**TomatoTom123** · 11-05-2016, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Oz

I'm not a big fan of today's music but "All Of Me" by John Legend immediately came to mind when you asked for one song. There are many more, but I get your point.

Hmm [[this probably because it's overplayed) I don't like that one. Bit too depressing for me, LOL. I like "Love On Top" by Beyoncé...?

**Jerry Oz** · 11-05-2016, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by TomatoTom123

Hmm [[this probably because it's overplayed) I don't like that one. Bit too depressing for me, LOL. I like "Love On Top" by Beyoncé...?

I don't like it a lot either. My wife hates it. But it's playing on a loop in my head for the next few hours [[from hearing it too many times), so I suspect it will be a future oldie but goodie.