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  1. #1
    mpn1jco Guest

    What Is Left In The Vaults For Diana Ross / Supremes ?

    What possible expanded editions can be released at this point ? From reading the threads I know that Take Me Higher, Force Behind The Power, and A Go Go are possible candidates. I would appreciate it if someone would post in response to this post a realistic wish list.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by mpn1jco View Post
    What possible expanded editions can be released at this point ? From reading the threads I know that Take Me Higher, Force Behind The Power, and A Go Go are possible candidates. I would appreciate it if someone would post in response to this post a realistic wish list.
    Literally dozens of live shows were recorded so technically there could be expanded versions of all the DRATS albums along with what few alternate takes are still gathering dust in the vaults. However i don't see that happening. Maybe we shall get the disney album soon , but otherwise not much more than your suggestions.

  3. #3
    mpn1jco Guest

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Literally dozens of live shows were recorded so technically there could be expanded versions of all the DRATS albums along with what few alternate takes are still gathering dust in the vaults. However i don't see that happening. Maybe we shall get the disney album soon , but otherwise not much more than your suggestions.
    Thanks for the response. Here is my wishlist:
    1. Ross 78
    2. A Go A Go
    3. Disney Album
    4. Live At Caesar's Palace
    5. Force Behind The Power
    6. Take Me Higher

    I think the expanded editions have slowed down because the well has almost run dry.
    “I actually know what’s in store, but I can’t share,” Taraborrelli teased. “But I can say this: there’s a lot of stuff! There are Diana Ross & the Supremes songs in the vaults that fans have not heard yet, and the same holds true for pretty much all of the artists at Motown. If the fans continue to demand the material, and be vocal about it, then it will surface.”
    “Some Motown fans are against the notion of digital releases,” Taraborrelli continued. “They demand CD releases, and they’ve made an issue of this by saying that they’re not buying any product that’s not released on CD. That’s not the position to take. By not supporting this album, or any of the other digital releases that have come out of Motown, the message that’s being sent is that nobody wants this stuff.”
    “Those of us of a certain age are going to just have to surrender to the fact that CDs are on the way out, and there’s nothing we can do about that,” Taraborrelli continued, “the same way we had to surrender to the fact that we weren’t going to be able to get our vinyl or our cassette tapes. If we draw a line in the sand and say we’re not buying digital releases, we’re not going to get ANY releases.”

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mpn1jco View Post
    Thanks for the response. Here is my wishlist:
    1. Ross 78
    2. A Go A Go
    3. Disney Album
    4. Live At Caesar's Palace
    5. Force Behind The Power
    6. Take Me Higher

    I think the expanded editions have slowed down because the well has almost run dry.
    “I actually know what’s in store, but I can’t share,” Taraborrelli teased. “But I can say this: there’s a lot of stuff! There are Diana Ross & the Supremes songs in the vaults that fans have not heard yet, and the same holds true for pretty much all of the artists at Motown. If the fans continue to demand the material, and be vocal about it, then it will surface.”
    “Some Motown fans are against the notion of digital releases,” Taraborrelli continued. “They demand CD releases, and they’ve made an issue of this by saying that they’re not buying any product that’s not released on CD. That’s not the position to take. By not supporting this album, or any of the other digital releases that have come out of Motown, the message that’s being sent is that nobody wants this stuff.”
    “Those of us of a certain age are going to just have to surrender to the fact that CDs are on the way out, and there’s nothing we can do about that,” Taraborrelli continued, “the same way we had to surrender to the fact that we weren’t going to be able to get our vinyl or our cassette tapes. If we draw a line in the sand and say we’re not buying digital releases, we’re not going to get ANY releases.”
    Okay then, I'll be vocal and say that I'll support digital releases for any of the Classic Motown acts. One thing I'd like to see is with these would be a 'digital booklet' with notes and info about the songs (like the one that was done the Deluxe Edition of 'Funny Girl').

  5. #5
    mpn1jco Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    Okay then, I'll be vocal and say that I'll support digital releases for any of the Classic Motown acts. One thing I'd like to see is with these would be a 'digital booklet' with notes and info about the songs (like the one that was done the Deluxe Edition of 'Funny Girl').
    The music industry was very different the 10 - 15 years ago when Hip-O Select started. That was still the era of the deluxe box set.

    The problem I have with digital downloads is that the booklets are not available. The audience that is supporting these releases is equally as interested in the booklets as the from the vault tracks. For those of us who missed the original expanded edition releases, access to those booklets is not possible with digital downloads. I think an effort should be made to meet the "niche" audience halfway.

    Bluerock, I have enjoyed your posts. I have read all of the salacious books on Diana Ross, seeking information on her music, not her personal life. You have answered most of the questions I was seeking to be answered about her music.

  6. #6
    It's a shame...I agree with the point made that the music industry has changed so much from a decade ago. I wonder how many original unreleased songs are left in the vault? It seems to be what many fans want the most (ie. Diana Ross' Blue album, which sold very well). As much as I and others love the unreleased alternate tracks and mixes, as well as live recordings...they seem to have even less appeal with many fans unfortunately. I get the sense that's mostly what's left in the vaults in regards to the 60s Supremes, along with some not so good recordings, per Andy's remarks in the Let the Music Play liner notes. Although I also get the sense there isn't much left for Diana's Motown solo output as well, in terms of original material. I would love more Expanded Editions though!

  7. #7
    I felt I should add there is still an active, passionate fan base out there for Diana Ross and The Supremes, solo and collectively. I see them and meet them at the concerts and many of them travel far and wide to see our favourite ladies. If only we could find a way to tap that passion and translate it into something that would get the music releases going again. These people exist...but I think part of it is that everyone is tired of fighting. I had a Supremes site for years and tried with various petitions and things and always seemed to get some kind of push back from Universal and other fans. Others have tried doing the same. Life goes on. Wish we could be getting more new music but...

  8. #8
    i think everyone is over reacting a bit here. just last Nov we got the "Diana Ross Sings Songs from the Wiz" unreleased set and then in Deb we got an expanded Xmas set with the Sups which included alt versions of several of the tracks. and earlier in 2015 all of the RCA albums were released and expanded.

    stop bitching and acting like it's been eons since anything was released. cuz it ain't true!

    2001 - Diana Anthology
    2002 - 70s Anthology
    2002 - R&H complete recordings
    2002 - Diana 70 expanded edition
    2003 - #1's
    2003 - Diana 1980 expanded
    2003 - To Love Again expanded
    2004 - There's a Place For Us released
    2004 - Sups & Tempts complete duets
    2004 - Where Did Our Love Go expanded
    2006 - Blue
    2006 - Reflections dvd set
    2006 - Jean Terrell box set
    2007 - Last Time I Saw Him expanded
    2008 - Everything is Everything expanded
    2008 - Surrender expanded
    2008 - Lost & Found Sups
    2009 - Magnificent duets
    2009 - Touch Me in the AM expanded
    2010 - meet Sups expanded set
    2011 - Sups on Ed Sullivan dvd
    2011 - Let Yourself Go set
    2011 - 50th Anniver Singles set
    2011 - More hits expanded
    2012 - I Hear A Symphony expanded
    2012 - Copa expanded
    2012 - Ross expanded
    2014 - rerelease of all Sups and Diana lps
    2014 - Baby It's me expanded
    2014 - Funny Girl
    2015 - Diana RCA albums expanded editions
    2015 - Diana Wiz
    2015 - Sup Merry Xmas

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mpn1jco View Post
    The music industry was very different the 10 - 15 years ago when Hip-O Select started. That was still the era of the deluxe box set.

    The problem I have with digital downloads is that the booklets are not available. The audience that is supporting these releases is equally as interested in the booklets as the from the vault tracks. For those of us who missed the original expanded edition releases, access to those booklets is not possible with digital downloads. I think an effort should be made to meet the "niche" audience halfway.

    Bluerock, I have enjoyed your posts. I have read all of the salacious books on Diana Ross, seeking information on her music, not her personal life. You have answered most of the questions I was seeking to be answered about her music.
    Thank you for your kind comments which are greatly appreciated. I shall attempt to continue answering your questions to the best of my ability. Thank you again.

  10. #10
    Quite an amazing list, thanks Sup_Fan. I didn't really realize how many releases we've been blessed to have, until seeing it all listed out. Years ago, as a young fan, I used to hope I could one day have everything on CD and that dream has almost been fulfilled. When you consider all of these releases, along with the invention of iTunes, Spotify and YouTube, we are truly blessed to have so much accessibility to a wealth of music and media.

  11. #11
    now this isn't to say that i don't want them to continue reissues i'd like to have everything in the vault!

    other than the live stuff and Disney, i wonder how much 60s material is really left. Since they've gone ahead and re-released the various studio albums, i wonder if there's a need for Expanded Editions of Reflections or Cream of the Crop. if there are just a handful of random tracks left, might make more sense to do another L&F. sort of a one and done

  12. #12
    Andy and George have said these gaps between releases have allowed them to mine the vault for more unreleased tracks. They have said they have found several unreleased recordings with vocals on them that originally were believed not to have them. Of course there are alternate vocals, alternate versions, different versions, etc. Those are sometimes more fun to hear.

    Don't forget there are still 70's Supremes unreleased tracks with enough to fill a Lost & Found.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    Andy and George have said these gaps between releases have allowed them to mine the vault for more unreleased tracks. They have said they have found several unreleased recordings with vocals on them that originally were believed not to have them. Of course there are alternate vocals, alternate versions, different versions, etc. Those are sometimes more fun to hear.

    Don't forget there are still 70's Supremes unreleased tracks with enough to fill a Lost & Found.
    Everyone... also keep this in mind to complete the reissue series on the Supremes. We are rapidly coming to the end of the time where there were 2 mixes for every album. One stereo and One monaural. A Go Go had mono and Sing HDH had mono. Not sure if Reflections was true mono or just a fold down as was the promo of Love Child. With that in mind, there probably no need for the 1967 and on onward albums expanded editions to be 2 discs. 1 disc can still hold several alternate mixes and the few unreleased that are left.

    As far as the booklets, yes i too love all the info and the pix, though when the cd's come, it is frustrating to have to get a magnifier out to read them. Andy & George have both expressed a continuing interest in writing about there and maybe the booklets will now have to take book form. I, for one, wouldn't mind shelling out a few bucks for nice several page books on each release, provided that I can buy the music from digital sources and in cd quality.

    Additionally, I do have faith that Andy & George will be able to get some limited edition cd releases through other sources. One of their big obstacles at the moment is getting Universal to allow the studio time for remastering.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mpn1jco View Post
    The music industry was very different the 10 - 15 years ago when Hip-O Select started. That was still the era of the deluxe box set.
    And yet, there are still Deluxe CD (and vinyl) Box Sets coming out (there are box sets coming later this year from Otis Redding, Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones, King Crimson, David Bowie). Also, Led Zeppelin has seen their entire catalog get 'the Deluxe Treatment'. I feel the real changes came when Universal acquired Capitol and they decided to go with either online downloads or vinyl re-releases of the Motown catalog.

  15. #15
    i'm not aware of ANY musical group that has received over 30 expanded and re-released album sets. Yes Pink Floyd, the Stones, etc have receive the occasional CD set on some of their top and/or historic albums. But remember, those albums might have gone to #1 and been on the charts for weeks. The early Sups albums did very well and we've received those as sets. But later Sup albums and the 70s stuff didn't sell nearly as strongly

    again, i'd love to get more things from the vault. but i'm not so foolish as to insist on a specific format. Frankly i'd rather have the unheard track or the interesting data points regardless of the format.

  16. #16
    If it happens.great.but want to know why the Supremes are such top secret.why not just say A Go Go coming fall 2016.simple

  17. #17
    I can appreciate everyone's sentiments about digital-only releases. I personally am a physical-only kind of girl.

    What I think some are forgetting is, not everyone is digital-only capable. I think of my parents, who were of the Supremes era. My Mom has a computer, and an Android phone. Outside of the ability to check Facebook and email, that's about where her ability lies. My Dad still has a flip-phone.

    I work in an industry that is very "online". The majority of my customers are seniors. I feel safe saying that for every one that has the ability to go online, there's another that does not.

    Now, clearly these "expanded editions" are for the super-fan. Your casual fan might buy a "Greatest Hits" collection, and be satisfied. HOWEVER, having just been at a Diana concert, I can GUARANTEE that if there had been a PHYSICAL copy of "A Go Go" for sale, they would have sold. You wouldn't believe the people standing in line just to buy a $30.00 tee shirt.

    I also think that it hasn't been easy to find information on ANY of these releases; physical or not. The Hip-O Select website started out strong, but then died out. I personally know of LIFELONG Diana Ross/Supremes fans that had NO IDEA that ANY of these Expanded Editions even existed.

    So I think while it's easy for someone like J. Randy (no disrespect) to shake his finger and say "this is the way it's going to be", I also think everyone is only looking at one piece of the pie.

    Everyone talks about how the 70's Supremes got "no promotion". Well, this is an orange to that apple.

  18. #18
    I appreciate that fans of an older generation might be less familiar with digital formats. but the same was true back in the day with vinyl. People had huge collections of 45's and lps, only to have to transition to cd.

    The record business is a business and they're focused on profits. with the advent of the digital, it was a major change for the music industry and it's not been a completely smooth road either. So yes we're now dealing with another format but it is the direction of the future for the music industry. They're focus on where they'll make the most money. That's why the Sups got more re-releases than other groups. There simply was more historic demand and name recognition.

    The music industry isn't going to "go back" to former formats unless there's clear money to be made. sure they'll continue to crank out a handful of Greatest Hits cds just to keep something on the shelves at Walmart. but otherwise, it's digital or nothing.

    What i'm concerned with is that people are going to forego the digital which will then lead to reduced output. if you prefer cd, nearly every computer today can burn a disc for you. If you want to read a physical booklet, pdfs can easily be printed

  19. #19
    "It's a game of give and take".....

    It's all about options. Clearly Universal isn't in the business to lose money. Neither is McDonald's. But how long do you think they'd stay in business if they said "from no on we're only serving hamburgers"?

    The issue lies in two things: they hold all the cards, and WE as a consumer don't have options. We either eat the hamburger, or we go hungry. I'd like to be able to go to Burger King for a chicken sandwich.

    If Universal doesn't want physical format, then lease to a company that does. ACE has found success. There are many others.

    The other things is: once everything is remastered, all of the hard work is done. If it's ready to be sold digitally, how much, truthfully, does it cost to make a physical CD? $2.00? $5.00? Even at $5.00, if they sold it for $39.99, that's a pretty good profit margin.

    If Mary Wilson herself can produce and execute an "Up Close" CD, then there is no reason why Universal can't make these titles available physically. Even if it's a run of 500 limited-edition copies.

    The problem is there is someone at the top that is simply saying NO. Because they can.

  20. #20
    Good point Mary Brewster. I can think of at least two fellow fan friends of mine who I run into at the various shows/travels and they don't know how to use iTunes or burn a CD. I told them both about the latest digital only expanded editions and not only did they not know about these releases, they didn't know how to go about obtaining them. I suppose it is partially their own fault for not changing with the times and learning the about the technologies available to them. However at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that there are many of these types of fans out there. Part of it has to do with the associated demographic. It's hard to tap into this market especially when things transition to an online only and/or digital only format. You're right that having these releases available in physical formats at the shows would be a great method to generate sells but then it introduces a number of issues. For instance, if they want to set up a UMG kiosk at Diana's shows or even the touring production of Motown the Musical (Berry's project), it becomes a matter of how to compensate Miss Ross or Mr. Gordy for generating sales that they deserve a bigger cut from, since they're advertising and selling at their show. Then you factor in paying the salary of a full time merchandise manager, plus travel costs, which further cuts into any potential profit that may come from only selling 100 CD's at a show...and that's a generous estimate in my opinion. It is a bit complicated.

    I've also wondered why ACE can't release the physical versions of some of these digital only titles. But then I suppose it again becomes a matter of how to split the profit when UMG has already invested the time and money in assembling this project and ACE is simply printing the CD's and would likely only make a marginal profit from such an arrangement. I also believe UMG is hesitant to outsource reissues for some of its bigger legacy artists like The Supremes because they don't want to relinquish their control of the goodwill and image associated with the brand. They still see huge value in the Supremes name...but perhaps only on a "hits catalogue" basis at this point in time.

  21. #21
    mpn1jco Guest
    Searched the web and found the following:

    From Diana!-
    My Man
    Reach Out
     
    From Live At Ceasers Palace-
    Sesame Street medley
    Happy
     
    From An Evening With-
    One Love In My Lifetime

    3 tracks with Kiss inc alt version of "Fool for Love".

    Vanessa Mitchell of High energy said Ross recorded-
    You Can't Turn me Off
    Love Is all you Need
    Let Me Get close To you

    RCA tracks include-
    Sleep With Me Tonight
    Try a little Tenderness
     
    "Satisfaction" produced by Smokey remains unreleased. I believe it was recorded in 73 or 74.

    There was also-
    Full Moon ('83 Ross LP)

    From around Mar/April '70 live-
    The Nitty Gritty
    Rythmn Of Life
    Is That all There is?

    Love Is All that matters (Duet with Brandy)

    Any chance of elaborating on why Katz dislikes the stuff he did on Ross 83?

    I was delighted to meet him, given how much I love Ross '83 and all things Steely Dan/Donald Fagen. He's a very matter-of-fact person and was quite honest that he considers Ross to be his career nadir. He seemed genuinely surprised that it was my favourite Ross record. Essentially, his memories from the session are coloured by what he recalls as a disinterest and lack of preparation from Diana. She expected him to pick all the songs and musicians and she just turn up to sing. I felt that from his work with Steely, he was used to a much more collaborative process and found having to find the songs rather stressful. He didn't enjoy that model of working at all. He felt that Diana was pretty straight in the studio, and not really wanting to experiment or riff.

    I was specifically interested in Pieces Of Ice, and how that came about, but his memory was sketchy. He thinks he put out requests to publishers for songs for the project and that was one that came back.

    I asked if he'd done more than 5 songs, and he advised no, so that definitely helps put to rest the mystery of the missing Ross tracks to a large degree (Maybe, Full Moon, Sleep With Me Tonight, although I had heard that Maybe was a Tom Dowd production of an old song, so "maybe" that exists).

    The fact that it was a bit of a torturous experience perhaps explains why it was such a short album.

    One other bit of trivia from this album came from Donald Fagen. He was asked by Katz to write a track, and came up with Love Will Make It Right. Apparently he came up with a killer mix on an SSL desk, which then promptly crashed and the mix was lost. The version that was on the album was inferior he felt to the lost version, which wasn't backed up.
    Alan1074, Jun 24, 2015



    Untitled Stevie Wonder Album
    , was a planned 1973 album to be written and produced by Stevie Wonder. Wonder wrote and produced their single "
    Bad Weather" with hopes the song would return the group back to the top of the charts. However, the song failed to crack the Top 40 and peaked at number 87 on Billboard's Hot 100. With the song's poor charting the album was scrapped. Two tracks, "Soft Days" and "I'll Wait A Lifetime," were recorded for the album; however both tracks currently remain unreleased. Other songs rumored to have been planned or recorded for the album included "Superstition" and "Until You Come Back to Me."

    Some Things You Never Get Used To, was a planned 1968 album based around the single "
    Some Things You Never Get Used To." The album consisted of new recordings and outtakes from previous albums. Motown hoped the single would be a smash hit after their previous single "Forever Came Today" failed to crack Billboard Top 20. When the song only made it to number 30, their weakest showing since 1963, the album was scrapped. Several of the newer recordings as well as the single would later be placed on Love Child
    .

    Diana Ross & the Supremes Sing Disney Classics, featuring covers of songs from films produced by
    Walt Disney Productions, began in 1967 and was completed by early 1968. However, the album was never given an assigned catalog number and was shelved after 14 tracks were completed. Songs recorded for the album, including "When You Wish upon a Star", "I've Got No Strings" and "Whistle While You Work
    ", have appeared on several Supremes compilation albums. "Chim Chim Cher-ee", "A Spoonful of Sugar", and "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" still remain unreleased.

    A Tribute to the Girls
    , was an album Motown planned for the group to record featuring songs made famous by girl groups of the time; however it was never completed. Several tracks were featured on the expanded release of There's a Place for Us.

    Last edited by mpn1jco; 08-14-2016 at 11:14 AM. Reason: font

  22. #22
    if you haven't already, grab a copy of Randy's latest Diana bio. in the appendix is a wonderful discography. actually it's more of a reference piece on her works than just a straight discography. lots of info about what went into the recording and development of all the Sup (diana era) records and her solo stuff. by the RCA there seems to be less and less info about unreleased tracks. but it does list out much of what you have above.

    And while there could always be unknown or lost treasures in the vault, based on these various reliable sources, much of the Diana era Sup content is already out there. As stated, there are tons of live shows recorded. but i don't know how much difference there is from one show to another. they had a pretty general catalog of music they used. sure there are random songs here and there. but i think we'll find the much of the what we've already heard and received for live sets pretty well sums things up. it would probably just be more of the same

    andy has also said that there are tracks where there was a mistake, problem or intonation issue. The You Can't Hurry Love one is sort of fun and humorous and so made a cute inclusion on Lost & Found. but they've been very clear that they have 0 intent of releasing anything that might make an artist appear in a poor light. frankly i'd be quite interested in these tracks. not because i want to find fault with Diana or mary or whomever. i find it to be an interesting part of the process. hearing the mistakes makes the finished product shine even more. but odds are these'll never be released.

  23. #23
    I don't think anyone's mentioned Diana's Harold Arlen set in this thread. Also, there's possibly a track from the mid-to-late '70s called "The Most Important Person," which I mentioned in this thread from yesteryear: http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread...SED-songs-left

  24. #24
    I'm afraid I do think that demanding physical media is fighting technical progress. releasing digitally cuts the costs to the record company massively for one thing. I speak as someone who has a vast stack of soul LPs I can't bear to get rid of even though I don't own a record deck!!!! Memories of times hunting through secondhand record shops in London and feeling the thrill of finding something rare and usually unobtainable here. I suppose younger people can't understand that...want to hear a tune these days and its on YouTube!!!

  25. #25
    I certainly want all that we can get from the vaults and reissues but I think a lot of folks don't understand why a huge corporation like Universal (not Andy, Harry, George, and Kevin) has little interest in niche product that seemingly moves only a few thousand copies at best. This isn't a case of walking into the vault, pulling a tape, slapping it onto disc and walking away. Here is what is typically involved in most reissue projects for any label...

    These sets require hundreds of hour of care. Not even taking into consideration all the hours I'm sure are spent on listening to every tape searching for unreleased tracks or the many alternate takes of the songs involved in each album to find hidden gems worthy of release. Once that list is compiled, clearances for the unreleased material in a lot of cases have to be sought out which can be a pill to sort out. Then there's the hurdle of getting the blessings of the label itself, who may say no or not yet to some of it (even at the last possible moment). Once that path clears, we get to the mastering process which can take days just to finish one song. The producers and engineer also get to hear a song so many times to get it remastered perfectly that I'm sure by the time they finish its probably one of the last tunes they want to hear for months to come afterwards. Multiply this by 30 tracks and you get the typical expanded edition sold to us at a bargain for the hours and effort even when they are $30-$50 bucks. Oh, and let's not forget the hours spent writing booklet essays and pouring over photographs to give us bonus and unseen shots. It really is a labor of love for very little profit when all this results in a max of 5,000 copies to a company that would rather put its marketing and money behind their big current sellers like Drake who move a million downloads.

    I'm happy to get it via download, disc, or vinyl at this point. How many years did everyone spend not buying CD's when their vinyl originally disappeared? One has to move with the times and not get caught up in semantics about format. Computer and smart phone penetration is so large now that if these "friends" don't know how to download - help them out by setting it up on these devices for them! I agree that being vocal but respectful about getting them on CD's is okay but crossing your arms and thinking you are punishing the label by not buying isn't as effective as one thinks its actually is. All you are doing is showing there is no demand for these releases by not participating in some way and it becomes an even longer wait for the next reissue....

  26. #26
    3 tracks with Kiss inc alt version of "Fool for Love".
    Are you saying Diana recorded songs with KISS or Gene Simmons?

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ejluther View Post
    Are you saying Diana recorded songs with KISS or Gene Simmons?
    Wasn't she dating Gene Simmons around the time of the Silk Electric recordings? I did temp work in the mid-late 1980s and was working in an accounting office that handled Paul Stanley (of Kiss). I had to bring a bunch of boxes of paperwork over to RTC Management Co. Evidently, they also handled her for a short period of time. No Diana sighting when I got there, though. I was brought in and immediately taken down to the lower level where I stacked the boxes and then was escorted out. Oh, well!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ejluther View Post
    Are you saying Diana recorded songs with KISS or Gene Simmons?
    Yes she did, for a proposed "rock" album which thankfully never materialized. When this splendid idea fell through Diana was forced to use some of the many canned tracks from the WDFFIL sessions, but there are at least 1 further version of FFL lying in the vault which Diana will thankfully never allow anyone to hear. I did even hear the master tapes had been destroyed but my very well placed source tells me otherwise. This source tells me this version is even worse than the released version so we must hope and pray that the master tape is destroyed before anyone can release it in the sad event of Diana's passing.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Yes she did, for a proposed "rock" album which thankfully never materialized. When this splendid idea fell through Diana was forced to use some of the many canned tracks from the WDFFIL sessions, but there are at least 1 further version of FFL lying in the vault which Diana will thankfully never allow anyone to hear. I did even hear the master tapes had been destroyed but my very well placed source tells me otherwise. This source tells me this version is even worse than the released version so we must hope and pray that the master tape is destroyed before anyone can release it in the sad event of Diana's passing.
    How funny Bluebrock. I thought Diana did a really good job on FFL. It really wasn't one of my favorites but she rocked it live. I will never forget when she did it at the Oakland Coliseum Arena. It was one of the many highlights of the concert!

  30. #30
    i don't think FFYL is the worse thing Diana ever committed to vinyl. it's not stellar but not hideous.

    and i'm not quite as negative as some about her RCA content. i do agree that there are a lot of "what ifs" in regards to this time. what if she'd stayed with motown? what if she's allowed other producers or people at RCA to have more input and collaboration with material? etc.

    in my mind - WDFFIL is a pretty solid album. not her best but certainly more compelling that some of her motown sets. it sounded contemporary and strong.

    Silk Electric, IMO, was a decent job at making something work. it's a potpourri album but i think a bit better than others. Ross 78 is worthless and the mixing of a few decent disco track, some crap disco tracks, some lush ballads and an Ain't No Mountain High Enough knock-off is worse. With SE it's more like "i'm doing 1 song of 6 or 7 difference genres." and because there's 0 attempt to unify them, it kinda worse. there's pop, reggae, hard rock, disco, ballad, 50's. I even sort of thought Turn Me Over was a cute play on the title and being the last track

    I find the Eaten Alive set more annoying to the ears. i think Berry's falsetto and Diana's naturally nasal voice to be an ear-piercing combination. and the excess reverb and echo to diana vocals make it all the more exasperating. but again, these are all just opinions

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Yes she did, for a proposed "rock" album which thankfully never materialized. When this splendid idea fell through Diana was forced to use some of the many canned tracks from the WDFFIL sessions, but there are at least 1 further version of FFL lying in the vault which Diana will thankfully never allow anyone to hear. I did even hear the master tapes had been destroyed but my very well placed source tells me otherwise. This source tells me this version is even worse than the released version so we must hope and pray that the master tape is destroyed before anyone can release it in the sad event of Diana's passing.
    I really like FFYL so I would love to hear those "rock" tracks and will be hoping and praying for the opposite result!

  32. #32
    http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/ Quite a few upcoming CDs and vinyl releases including Monkees, Steve Hackett, Aretha etc

  33. #33
    In his book Kiss and Sell, Chris Lendt devotes a chapter to the few years that Kiss's management also managed Ross, including the switch from Motown to RCA. Tellingly, in the liner notes of Why Do Fools, Ross first thanks Berry Gordy "for believing in me, and refusing to let me settle for mediocrity. And giving me the opportunity to 'sing and shine'." to be followed by "Also deserving my special gratitude is Gene for his his love and encouragement."

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ejluther View Post
    I really like FFYL so I would love to hear those "rock" tracks and will be hoping and praying for the opposite result!
    You will only hear it in the event of Diana's death so be careful what you wish for!

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i don't think FFYL is the worse thing Diana ever committed to vinyl. it's not stellar but not hideous.

    and i'm not quite as negative as some about her RCA content. i do agree that there are a lot of "what ifs" in regards to this time. what if she'd stayed with motown? what if she's allowed other producers or people at RCA to have more input and collaboration with material? etc.

    in my mind - WDFFIL is a pretty solid album. not her best but certainly more compelling that some of her motown sets. it sounded contemporary and strong.

    Silk Electric, IMO, was a decent job at making something work. it's a potpourri album but i think a bit better than others. Ross 78 is worthless and the mixing of a few decent disco track, some crap disco tracks, some lush ballads and an Ain't No Mountain High Enough knock-off is worse. With SE it's more like "i'm doing 1 song of 6 or 7 difference genres." and because there's 0 attempt to unify them, it kinda worse. there's pop, reggae, hard rock, disco, ballad, 50's. I even sort of thought Turn Me Over was a cute play on the title and being the last track

    I find the Eaten Alive set more annoying to the ears. i think Berry's falsetto and Diana's naturally nasal voice to be an ear-piercing combination. and the excess reverb and echo to diana vocals make it all the more exasperating. but again, these are all just opinions
    It's all about personal preferences and it is interesting to hear your views on Diana's RCA career. No-one is right and no-one is wrong. It's all good.

  36. #36
    Exactly Bluebrock - for the most part, this has been a great forum for sharing stories, theories, ideas and facts. it's fun to hear other's take on things and learn more.

    I sort of like Ross 83 too. I think the tracks are great but am not overwhelmed with Diana's vocals. sometimes she's just not delivering like she really could have. I think Pieces of Ice could have been stronger if the lyrics weren't so odd. And I actually like Girls lolol. I realize I might be in the minority here lolol. But it's fun and kitschy. would have made an exciting video too.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    You will only hear it in the event of Diana's death so be careful what you wish for!
    She hates them herself that much? I've always admired her willingness to try on different styles of music, almost like clothes...

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    i'm not aware of ANY musical group that has received over 30 expanded and re-released album sets. Yes Pink Floyd, the Stones, etc have receive the occasional CD set on some of their top and/or historic albums. But remember, those albums might have gone to #1 and been on the charts for weeks. The early Sups albums did very well and we've received those as sets. But later Sup albums and the 70s stuff didn't sell nearly as well.
    If the sales figures that have circulated for years are accurate, all of The Supremes (60s)/Diana Ross & The Supremes' albums were either Gold (500k +) or Platinum (1 mil +) save for:

    "Country, Western & Pop"
    "We Remember Sam Cooke"
    "sing and perform "Funny Girl"
    "Live at London's Talk of the Town"
    "Greatest Hits Vol. 3"
    "Farewell"

    Considering the number of times those albums were reissued, were those sales updated? How were the CD 2 fers counted?

    Unfortunately, despite the quality, The Supremes 70s album sales were disappointing. Their album sales were on the level of The Marvellettes and Martha Reeves and The Vandellas. Their single sales from 1970-72 were commendable. Even in the UK where they had several Top 10 singles (Jean Terrell era), only "The Magnificent 7" hit the Top 10 (#6) probably due to the popularity of The Four Tops in the UK and the success of "River Deep, Mountain High" that coupling was irresistible.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    now this isn't to say that i don't want them to continue reissues i'd like to have everything in the vault!

    other than the live stuff and Disney, i wonder how much 60s material is really left. Since they've gone ahead and re-released the various studio albums, i wonder if there's a need for Expanded Editions of Reflections or Cream of the Crop. if there are just a handful of random tracks left, might make more sense to do another L&F. sort of a one and done
    My biggest curiosity is the once proposed "Love Child" album with all songs having a social theme. Were the songs ever recorded? Was a song like "Shadows of Society" deemed for that album? Though "I'm Living in Shame" would have a perfect addition, that song was written in November 1968 after the album was relesed. If that indeed was the direction the album was headed, I would have delayed releasing it though it would miss the holiday selling season. It had the most positive reviews. It could have been an even bigger critical and commercial success than it was...surpassing lots of expectations.
    Last edited by Bokiluis; 08-18-2016 at 08:43 PM.

  40. #40
    unlike the unreleased Somethings You Never Get Used To lp, i'm not sure that there was a complete line up for the "original" Love Child lp. For all of the DRATS albums, i made up my own iTunes playlists. looking over their recording dates and the lp release dates, i've compiled and shuffled songs around to make, IMO, more compelling lp sets. i ended up using a lot of the actual released tracks but did also include more of the unreleased ones we've received over the years

    here's my Love Child lp. The only track on here that wasn't recorded in time was Everyday People. but i needed a 12th song and so i added. Frankly if they used the full intro from the released version of Love Child and then the third verse recently discovered and the longer outtro, you might be able to complete the album with 11 tracks. 5 on side one and 6 on the flip

    Side A
    Love Child
    Keep an Eye
    How Long has That Evening Train Been Gone
    Does your Mama Know About Me
    Blowin' in the Wind
    Beginning of the End of Love

    Side B
    Everyday People
    In the Evening of our Love
    If you Should Walk Away
    Wish I Knew
    Ain't No Sun Since You've Been Gone
    MacArthur Park

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Exactly Bluebrock - for the most part, this has been a great forum for sharing stories, theories, ideas and facts. it's fun to hear other's take on things and learn more.

    I sort of like Ross 83 too. I think the tracks are great but am not overwhelmed with Diana's vocals. sometimes she's just not delivering like she really could have. I think Pieces of Ice could have been stronger if the lyrics weren't so odd. And I actually like Girls lolol. I realize I might be in the minority here lolol. But it's fun and kitschy. would have made an exciting video too.
    Ross83 could have been a good album, but Diana was never on board with this project. She was a a pain in the butt during the recording of it, and she was annoyed that a couple of strong tracks recorded for the project were taken off the tracklisting literally at the last minute but a couple of turkeys were left on there. The project was disjointed, Diana had little faith in it and this was the real start of the downward spiral with RCA. Musically it is probably a little stronger than the previous two efforts but without that killer track it had no real chance of being a monster hit. LETS GO UP should have been the first single. That is what Diana wanted but she was overruled , and that was basically the end of that.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ejluther View Post
    She hates them herself that much? I've always admired her willingness to try on different styles of music, almost like clothes...
    Yes she does, but i am treading on egg shells here so i cannot say anymore.

  43. #43
    Bluebrock - i'm surprised that she struggled so much with Ross. wasn't the whole point of leaving motown and going to RCA that she be in control of her career? she'd said that her approval was required for everything so how was she 'overruled'

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Ross83 could have been a good album, but Diana was never on board with this project. She was a a pain in the butt during the recording of it, and she was annoyed that a couple of strong tracks recorded for the project were taken off the tracklisting literally at the last minute but a couple of turkeys were left on there. The project was disjointed, Diana had little faith in it and this was the real start of the downward spiral with RCA. Musically it is probably a little stronger than the previous two efforts but without that killer track it had no real chance of being a monster hit. LETS GO UP should have been the first single. That is what Diana wanted but she was overruled , and that was basically the end of that.
    I liked ROSS (1983) much better than the album that preceded it, SILK ELECTRIC. But I thought ROSS might have been a bit rushed because she was trying to have new product out in time for the Central Park concert and subsequent tour. It was released not even a full year after SILK ELECTRIC.

    I thought LET'S GO UP would have been a better choice for an initial single, even though I think it is a bit too slow. But Diana obviously liked it. It's the only song from the album that I've ever heard her sing in concert. It was still in the act when she did the SWEPT AWAY tour.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Bluebrock - i'm surprised that she struggled so much with Ross. wasn't the whole point of leaving motown and going to RCA that she be in control of her career? she'd said that her approval was required for everything so how was she 'overruled'
    The album was originally meant to have 10 tracks on it. 12 were recorded. 2 were canned, and then at the last minute 2 more were canned. Diana had creative control over what she recorded and whom she recorded it, but she could not compete with the executives at RCA who were growing tired of her by this point.

  46. #46
    mpn1jco Guest
    I purchased Silk Electric on leave from boarding school. I was initially disappointed with the album. However, my best friend said the album was 'slick'. He went to her concert around the time and was not pleased with her performance. He had seen her when she was promoting 'The Boss" and 'An Evening With' and described these concerts as life altering events. This time around he said the set was threadbare and it seemed like she was not interested in what she doing and really wanted to get home. The crowd response, he said,was off, possibly fueled by her apparent indifference. The real highlights of the show, were "So Close" and "Fool For Your Love". which seemed to get the crowd going. He said these songs worked well live. People say 'Silk Electric' went gold because of 'Muscles'. Maybe, maybe not. It should be taken into consideration her live promotion of the album live. If you strip away all the guitars from "Fool For Your Love", it has the same basic beat of "Where Did Our Love Go".

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    I liked ROSS (1983) much better than the album that preceded it, SILK ELECTRIC. But I thought ROSS might have been a bit rushed because she was trying to have new product out in time for the Central Park concert and subsequent tour. It was released not even a full year after SILK ELECTRIC.

    I thought LET'S GO UP would have been a better choice for an initial single, even though I think it is a bit too slow. But Diana obviously liked it. It's the only song from the album that I've ever heard her sing in concert. It was still in the act when she did the SWEPT AWAY tour.
    Yes she loved that song. The problem with Diana was that she would have all these great ideas about what to record. She would record them but by the time it came to the mixing stage she would have fallen out with them and wanted to can them and record another batch of songs. This she duly did for the WDFFIL project, but RCA quickly tired of her behaviour. They had deadlines to adhere to, and did not take kindly to these sudden change of heart, pardon the pun! It all began to turn mighty sour. Diana lacked a strong person such as Berry who would stand up to her and guide her gently the way i attempted to do in the late 80's and 90's. The 80's could have been a glorious period for her with every man and his dog lining up to work with her. Instead she turned them away, went with her own instincts and look what happened there. She quickly disowned Ross83 the way she quickly disowned SE and of course WO later in the decade. If only, if only..........
    Last edited by Bluebrock; 08-19-2016 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Not finished my post

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Yes she loved that song. The problem with Diana was that she would have all these great ideas about what to record. She would record them but by the time it came to the mixing stage she would have fallen out with them and wanted to can them and record another batch of songs. This she duly did for the WDFFIL project, but RCA quickly tired of her behaviour. They had deadlines to adhere to, and did not take kindly to these sudden change of heart, pardon the pun! It all began to turn mighty sour. Diana lacked a strong person such as Berry who would stand up to her and guide her gently the way i attempted to do in the late 80's and 90's. The 80's could have been a glorious period for her with every man and his dog lining up to work with her. Instead she turned them away, went with her own instincts and look what happened there. She quickly disowned Ross83 the way she quickly disowned SE and of course WO later in the decade. If only, if only..........
    Do you have any feedback Bluebrock of Diana's feelings as regards the "Eaten Alive" album. For me it was at least a return to some form after some real dodgy albums. This and RHR&B are the only two rca albums i ever listen to. I am sad to admit that i really do find most of her rca output glossy pap.

  49. #49
    “What if” are interesting games to play, and yes, with different choices, the RCA years of Ross could have been (even) more successful. Yet, the post-disco 1980s were tough for all African American female "pop" singers of the same generation as Ross. Aretha and Donna both had some hits but many misses, like Ross struggling to find the right niche in a changing pop market. Tina Turner is one exception, but her success was partially based on her comeback narrative and the surprise hit of “What’s Love Got To Do With It.” And then there was of course Janet with Control and Whitney. Just imagine if Ross would have made those records (which would have fitted her image), but they wouldn’t have had the extra narrative that made these records successful: Janet’s Control had the same surprise factor as the “diana” album six years earlier and the album also reinforced Janet’s personal story of wanting to get control over her own life away from her famous family, father, and brother. For Whitney, the big difference was her voice. The material on her debut album is actually rather formulaic (as was recognized at the time) – her voice and her youth made the difference. Just imagine that Ross would have made the exact same album (4 of the 10 songs were Michael Masser ballads); it would have been a nice album, but would not have had the same impact, as it probably wouldn’t have been a “surprise” record that stood out in the way “Whitney Houston” did. One of the biggest missed opportunities and “what if’s” of the 1980s is the fall-out that Michael Jackson had with Ross. She would have been perfect for the “I Just Can’t Stop Loving You” duet of 1987. I’m not a big fan of the song, but it would have been a match made in heaven. And of course, a full Luther Vandross produced album… that would have been nice.
    Last edited by Jaap; 08-19-2016 at 12:45 PM.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by mpn1jco View Post
    I purchased Silk Electric on leave from boarding school. I was initially disappointed with the album. However, my best friend said the album was 'slick'. He went to her concert around the time and was not pleased with her performance. He had seen her when she was promoting 'The Boss" and 'An Evening With' and described these concerts as life altering events. This time around he said the set was threadbare and it seemed like she was not interested in what she doing and really wanted to get home. The crowd response, he said,was off, possibly fueled by her apparent indifference. The real highlights of the show, were "So Close" and "Fool For Your Love". which seemed to get the crowd going. He said these songs worked well live. People say 'Silk Electric' went gold because of 'Muscles'. Maybe, maybe not. It should be taken into consideration her live promotion of the album live. If you strip away all the guitars from "Fool For Your Love", it has the same basic beat of "Where Did Our Love Go".
    I remember when tickets went on sale for the SILK ELECTRIC concert in my state. The response was so strong that it actually made the evening news.

    I missed that concert, but she came around again about five months later with the FOR ONE AND FOR ALL tour. I caught the second show of the tour, about two weeks after Central Park. Diana was good, but seemed to be working on low voltage. The set listwasn't quite together yet, and she didn't even sing PIECES OF ICE, which was her current single at the time. Plus the audience was rowdy. At one point, one female fan socked another fan who was blocking her view. Finally during ENDLESS LOVE, Diana left the stage and did not come back. I was so disappointed. But I saw her again the next year during the SWEPT AWAY tour, and she was great.

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