Has prince died

[soulster]

Perhaps.

SD is a forum for soul music connoisseurs. It is not a place for knee-jerk reaction to the completely unexpected loss of a LEGENDARY

Really. How about a string of endless reports here of people passing, some that have been false reports?

[marv2]

Talking to Martha Reeves the other night made me look this recording up of Mary Wells:

[Jerry Oz]

What a year. It's only April and we've lost Maurice White, Glen Frey, Prince, and David Bowie. I don't think people appreciate what this group represents. White had his fingerprints all over modern soul, pop, funk, and R&B, both in the studio and on stage. Frey influenced rock and country and the Eagles have musical disciples everywhere. David Bowie was a chameleon and his blurring of sexual roles was not just a musical influence but also a cultural one. And Prince? He wasn't the first one-man band but he was the best. He brought Black people into listening to rock and White people into urban sounds. He made Minneapolis a musical hotbed. He produced scores of artists. Hell, he produced the soundtrack of the '80s for many folks.

I'm struggling as I try to figure out what remaining artists have been as impactful on my musical preferences as these four brothers. I'm left with Stevie and I'll be crushed if something bad happens to him. Giants, all of them. I'm jealous because they will all live forever.

[soulster]

I was in my 20s in the 80s and early 90s, and was a huge pop music fan, and bought all of Prince's music. What I never figured out was: other than the musician community, how did the Black community really feel about Prince and his music? What about age? I just don't recall him getting any universal praise. It wasn't until the 90s when he worked with Miles Davis and Mavis Staples that I ever heard Blacks praise his work.

[midnightman]

Prince came out at a time when the R&B music world was in a very conservative phase so he wasn't as embraced then when he crossed over. I think after the '80s, many R&B heads suddenly began waxing poetic of the barrier breakers like Prince... I grew up at a time when he was embraced by the black community.

[soulster]

The funny thing is I have
long held a lot of contempt for the mindset of most of our young people today but
on their crop of music websites, of course Hip Hop orientated, they are remembering
and discussing Prince elaborately. Ain't that some ish?......

You should see how we old guys are doing on the Steve Hoffman Forum. Almost 3500+ posts and still going!

[soulster]

Prince came out at a time when the R&B music world was in a very conservative phase so he wasn't as embraced then when he crossed over. I think after the '80s, many R&B heads suddenly began waxing poetic of the barrier breakers like Prince... I grew up at a time when he was embraced by the black community.

That's interesting because Black people were his first audience in the 70s. That seemed to go away once he released "Dirty Mind", but, even then, Black audiences stuck by him through "Irresistable Bitch". When "Purple Rain came out, "Let's Go Crazy" R&B listeners made it a number one record. I'm kind of at a loss as to why few talk about him here.

[marv2]

Prince came out at a time when the R&B music world was in a very conservative phase so he wasn't as embraced then when he crossed over. I think after the '80s, many R&B heads suddenly began waxing poetic of the barrier breakers like Prince... I grew up at a time when he was embraced by the black community.

Prince actually came out during the Disco Era, but I know what you mean. He did not hit his stride until the early 80s when many R&B acts were wearing double breasted suits with a few exceptions like Cameo , Parliament, etc.

[Guy]

I was in my 20s in the 80s and early 90s, and was a huge pop music fan, and bought all of Prince's music. What I never figured out was: other than the musician community, how did the Black community really feel about Prince and his music? What about age? I just don't recall him getting any universal praise. It wasn't until the 90s when he worked with Miles Davis and Mavis Staples that I ever heard Blacks praise his work.

My late mother was about 45 when "Purple Rain" hit. She and her friends saw the movie in the theater at least a dozen times. She LOVED Prince and continued to follow him for years. He was a cross-generational phenomenon in the black community. He reminded them of James Brown and Jackie Wilson, the charismatic heroes of their youth.

[soulster]

Prince actually came out during the Disco Era, but I know what you mean. He did not hit his stride until the early 80s when many R&B acts were wearing double breasted suits with a few exceptions like Cameo , Parliament, etc.

By 1981, Parliament was de-activated by George Clinton, and, Cameo never wore breasted suits. Teddy Pendergrass wore his shirt open so the women could fantasize about it. The only group I can think of that did were The Whispers.

Prince had his first record in the fall of 1978, at the height of disco, but if you listen to that first album "For You", you don't hear any disco on it. On 1979's "I Wanna Be Your Lover", you may hear more of a nod to it, but not much. But, Slave, Bar-Kays, Earth Wind & Fire, or any of those bands, did not dress conservatively, and their music wasn't, either. If, by "conservative", he means that they didn't take musical risks like Prince did, he's right. The look may have been a bit wild, but the lyrics? Nooooo!

[soulster]

My late mother was about 45 when "Purple Rain" hit. She and her friends saw the movie in the theater at least a dozen times. She LOVED Prince and continued to follow him for years. He was a cross-generational phenomenon in the black community. He reminded them of James Brown and Jackie Wilson, the charismatic heroes of their youth.

What about you?

[Jerry Oz]

Here is my reflection on this cat:

I wasn't a big Prince fan for years after he came out. I dug his music, but couldn't support an artist who put the Lord's Prayer in "Controversy" and has similar perceived sacrilegious lyrics in songs like "Lady Cab Driver" and other records. I just couldn't go there and I still don't listen to those songs.

There were two monster albums in my senior year of high school: "Off the Wall" and "Prince". Girls went nuts over both of those. Then, "Dirty Mind" came out and dude went to a whole new and scandalous level. "Uptown" remains one of my favorite songs to this day. But it also offended my sensibilities, so I didn't buy the album.

Then, my best friends and cousins jumped on "1999" with both feet. That brother made a double album! I mean, who did that in the 1980s? Was there a better song during that decade than the title track? Probably not.

And then came "Purple Rain". There have been three culturally influential and musically significant musical films in the last 40 years. "Saturday Night Fever" was the first. "Urban Cowboy" was the second. And "Purple Rain" was the third. I remember people who worked with me going to the midnight shows after work. I knew of people who saw it many many times at the theater. The lines between rock and R&B were blurred forever.

I came to admit that I loved a lot of his stuff much later, but I can admit it now without problem. "Kiss" and "When Doves Cry" sometimes play on a loop in my head. My favorite song by him remains "Let's Go Crazy". That is an incredible record just from its energy level.

Nobody talks about how insecure he was in the beginning. It may have been a necessary fault, I don't know. But he created and broke up the Time, which I never forgave. He produced dozens of artists and created the third "M" music scene; Minneapolis fits in nicely behind Motown and Memphis.

This dude lived a good life and found his spiritual path in life, which I admire, regardless of his faith or beliefs. I seriously teared up when my wife told me about his passing. The last artists to get that reaction from me were Gregory Hines and Luther. I am still trying to process it; something about it feels unfair. So, to go from being someone who drew my scorn to being someone who I envied is special. The world lost a good one last week.

[soulster]

Here is my reflection on this cat:

I wasn't a big Prince fan for years after he came out. I dug his music, but couldn't support an artist who put the Lord's Prayer in "Controversy" and has similar perceived sacrilegious lyrics in songs like "Lady Cab Driver" and other records. I just couldn't go there and I still don't listen to those songs.

There were two monster albums in my senior year of high school: "Off the Wall" and "Prince". Girls went nuts over both of those. Then, "Dirty Mind" came out and dude went to a whole new and scandalous level. "Uptown" remains one of my favorite songs to this day. But it also offended my sensibilities, so I didn't buy the album.

Well, the lord's prayer in the song didn't bother me. I thought it was some catholic stuff, so I didn't care.

Sexual themes don't bother me one bit. People have sex. Unfortuanately, incest exists, too.

[Jerry Oz]

Everybody is different. You don't have to care and I choose to. C'est la vie. I support free expression because I embrace my opportunities for it when they arise. Many people would be shocked to learn what I listen to [[hint: Fishbone had been one of my favorite bands for 30 years). But I draw the line at using religion in a disrespectful way in popular music. I don't care about sexual lyrics beyond how they are used as a crutch by some artists who don't have fresh ideas to put into their songs. Prince used sex to provoke on "Dirty Mind" and I can accept his method since it clearly worked.

[soulster]

Everybody is different. You don't have to care and I choose to. C'est la vie. I support free expression because I embrace my opportunities for it when they arise. Many people would be shocked to learn what I listen to [[hint: Fishbone had been one of my favorite bands for 30 years). But I draw the line at using religion in a disrespectful way in popular music. I don't care about sexual lyrics beyond how they are used as a crutch by some artists who don't have fresh ideas to put into their songs. Prince used sex to provoke on "Dirty Mind" and I can accept his method since it clearly worked.

That wasn't an attack on your sensibilities, that was me expressing just my opinion, just like you.

[Jerry Oz]

That wasn't an attack on your sensibilities, that was me expressing just my opinion, just like you.

LOL. I didn't take it that way. I thought that I was actually supporting what you wrote...

I'm just in a funk today and my words were more tersely written than I meant. My bad, brother.

BTW: David Gilmour threw "Purple Rain" into "Comfortably Numb" on Sunday night.

[soulster]

I deal with this by discussing Prince on the internet, since I don't meet people around here who care enough. Also, a tragic, senseless shooting happened to some people I know in my neck of the woods last week, and a good kid died, and i'm coping with that, too.

[Jerry Oz]

I'm sorry to hear that. Too much bullshit is going on. There are solutions to all of it but nobody who can help fix it cares. Prince actually did shows in Chicago and Baltimore to help with their current levels of unrest. It's a shame that more artists don't even acknowledge social problems, let alone try to do something about them. When I said earlier that he found a sweet spot spiritually, I meant it. This dude tried to help others.

[marv2]

I'm sorry to hear that. Too much bullshit is going on. There are solutions to all of it but nobody who can help fix it cares. Prince actually did shows in Chicago and Baltimore to help with their current levels of unrest. It's a shame that more artists don't even acknowledge social problems, let alone try to do something about them. When I said earlier that he found a sweet spot spiritually, I meant it. This dude tried to help others.

Prince also made a substantial donation to the family of Trayvon Martin, also paying for the funeral.

[Jerry Oz]

Well, they're starting to talk about him on the gossip shows. They're talking about why he didn't have a will, his sister being a recovered druggie, rumored money problems, and little sniggling back biting talk about an addiction to painkillers and coke. It's not even people who are willing to go on camera but unnamed "sources". I knew it would come.

[timmyfunk]

Tried to post yesterday from the phone. So here we go again.

Like most Black folks, I discovered Prince through "I Wanna Be Lover", his first number one R&B hit. The journey in terms of following this dude career has been a series of peaks, valleys and WTF potholes in the road.

After that discovery, I didn't get into Controversy or Dirty Mind. Didn't hit my primal button in the least.

When he dropped 1999, he definitely got my attention. Skipped over Little Red Corvette anytime I played this disc. Irresistible Bitch started my interest in his B-sides.

Next stop, Purple Rain. Coming through the 1970's, I always wanted my Funk uncut. This was camouflaged Funk. Wasn't feeling it at all. Erotic City, however, restored some faith. For obvious reasons.

Around the World in A Day didn't hold much interest for me outside of Pop Life [[12" mix). Raspberry Beret? Next.....

Parade was a definite improvement. Kiss [[12") wraps JB, Sly and P-Funk in one glorious purple gift box. I also started exploring Madhouse [[Prince's answer to the JB's?). They grooved me far more than Prince himself.

And then the decline set in....

Lovesexy provided me with my first embarrassing record buying experience. The cover was bad enough, but to get home and find out that the record was worse than the cover was a double shot in the gut. What made me more pissed was the fact that he put that album out as a replacement for a project he called the Black Album. I purchased a bootleg vinyl version and then later in 1994 purchased the legitimate version. Right up until today, that album stands as his greatest achievement in my eyes. Raw, Funky and free of any kind of "pop weasel dust" that mars so many of his recordings.

Batdance [[Vicki Vale mix) and Partyman [[video mix) are the bright spots in an otherwise uninteresting Batman soundtrack.

Graffiti Bridge was promising. Thieves In The Temple and We Can Funk were decent tracks.

Diamonds and Pearls is, as far as I'm concerned, the Swan Song. Gett Off was the crowning jewel.

From this point on, numerous factors [[musically and otherwise) made me distance myself from this cat permanently. Still, he did more than enough to get into and remain in the history books.

[marv2]

Tried to post yesterday from the phone. So here we go again.

Like most Black folks, I discovered Prince through "I Wanna Be Lover", his first number one R&B hit. The journey in terms of following this dude career has been a series of peaks, valleys and WTF potholes in the road.

After that discovery, I didn't get into Controversy or Dirty Mind. Didn't hit my primal button in the least.

When he dropped 1999, he definitely got my attention. Skipped over Little Red Corvette anytime I played this disc. Irresistible Bitch started my interest in his B-sides.

Next stop, Purple Rain. Coming through the 1970's, I always wanted my Funk uncut. This was camouflaged Funk. Wasn't feeling it at all. Erotic City, however, restored some faith. For obvious reasons.

Around the World in A Day didn't hold much interest for me outside of Pop Life [[12" mix). Raspberry Beret? Next.....

Parade was a definite improvement. Kiss [[12") wraps JB, Sly and P-Funk in one glorious purple gift box. I also started exploring Madhouse [[Prince's answer to the JB's?). They grooved me far more than Prince himself.

And then the decline set in....

Lovesexy provided me with my first embarrassing record buying experience. The cover was bad enough, but to get home and find out that the record was worse than the cover was a double shot in the gut. What made me more pissed was the fact that he put that album out as a replacement for a project he called the Black Album. I purchased a bootleg vinyl version and then later in 1994 purchased the legitimate version. Right up until today, that album stands as his greatest achievement in my eyes. Raw, Funky and free of any kind of "pop weasel dust" that mars so many of his recordings.

Batdance [[Vicki Vale mix) and Partyman [[video mix) are the bright spots in an otherwise uninteresting Batman soundtrack.

Graffiti Bridge was promising. Thieves In The Temple and We Can Funk were decent tracks.

Diamonds and Pearls is, as far as I'm concerned, the Swan Song. Gett Off was the crowning jewel.

From this point on, numerous factors [[musically and otherwise) made me distance myself from this cat permanently. Still, he did more than enough to get into and remain in the history books.

Great synopsis Timmy.

[soulster]

You skipped over "Sign O the Times".

Here's where I was

Like most Black folks, I also discovered Prince by the second album with I Wanna Be Your Lover. I didn't care about the slow jams at all. I think I liked the pop/rock songs more.

Dirty Mind. I loved this album. I liked that he got freaky.

"Controversy": I was all over it. My favorite cut is "Let's Work". The 12" was even better. Timmy, as a fan of the funk, i'm surprised you don't care for that song.

1999: Like you, I skip over "Little Red Corvette". No rhythm. No groove. I liked DMSR. Other than that, I have no use for the album. I favored "Irresistable Bitch".

"Purple Rain" was in my wheelhouse.

I dug the "Around The World In A Day" album. That whole album is fantastic, except the song "America".

"Parade". Funky-ass album. Beautiful melodies.

After that, my interest gradually declined. I liked parts of Sign O The Times. "Hot Thing" was a bright spot. And I dig "The Gold Experience".

[Jerry Oz]

To be sure, I respect him more for his personal evolution than his entire discography. He appeared to be a bit of a douchebag and control freak back in the day but proved himself as a good man by the end. To me, that's better than the impact of his career.

I didn't buy most of his albums, so I didn't have to sift through the filler material. But I liked what I bought and that's good enough for me. I think that he had a problem later in his career because most casual fans held him to the standard that he set in the '80s, perhaps unfairly. What was his last true hit? It doesn't matter; I held him in high regard and remain hurt by his passing.

[timmyfunk]

Sign O' Times was one of his better efforts. HouseQuake [[12" instrumental) sounds like it could have been on the Black Album.

[daddyacey]

​I think that some of his best tracks are on Emancipation ,The Gold Experience, Crystal Ball ,Diamonds and Pearls, New Power Soul, The Symbol Album ,One Nite Alone ,21 nites in London and The Indigo Live sessions. It ain't all about hits.

[soulster]

To be sure, I respect him more for his personal evolution than his entire discography. He appeared to be a bit of a douchebag and control freak back in the day but proved himself as a good man by the end. To me, that's better than the impact of his career.

I didn't buy most of his albums, so I didn't have to sift through the filler material. But I liked what I bought and that's good enough for me. I think that he had a problem later in his career because most casual fans held him to the standard that he set in the '80s, perhaps unfairly. What was his last true hit? It doesn't matter; I held him in high regard and remain hurt by his passing.

The more I read about how a total dick he was as far as his religious directives are concerned regarding gays, I have less respect for him as a person. But I totally respect his musical output. Gett Off!

[soulster]

​I think that some of his best tracks are on Emancipation ,The Gold Experience, Crystal Ball ,Diamonds and Pearls, New Power Soul, The Symbol Album ,One Nite Alone ,21 nites in London and The Indigo Live sessions. It ain't all about hits.

"Diamonds And Pearls", and "The Gold Experience" have a lot of hits on them.

[splanky]

...And so the living get to sum up the life and legacy of the dead...from each's own perspective
no less. It's very difficult to not confuse our own opinions with facts or alternative ideas. But
it happens...
Anyway, glad to see your reply to this thread, Tim, but I know your view is shaped by your
own biases,ie your dislike of ballads...On the Batman soundtrack there was a cut,
Scandalous , that I remember my boy Leroy Burgess [[ of Black Ivory) playing over and over
and over again one summer night. And fans of the songs Purple Rain and Little Red Corvette
are literaly legion. To each it's reach, I guess...
As far as Prince's expressed ideas towards gays I suspect that may have been an external
reaction to his own internal battle with his own bisexuality. Shaped by religious tinted feelings of guilt, even. But that's all irrelevant to his legacy at this point...It lives on....

[Jerry Oz]

The more I read about how a total dick he was as far as his religious directives are concerned regarding gays, I have less respect for him as a person. But I totally respect his musical output. Gett Off!

I haven't come across his remarks about gay people. But I am intolerant toward intolerance. For somebody who drew celebrity from his open flogging of sexual mores, it's hard to understand how he could reconcile his opinion on the LGBTQ community. Especially from a man who identified with being sexually ambiguous to the point that he wore panties and assless pants during his performances earlier in his career.

[soulster]

As far as Prince's expressed ideas towards gays I suspect that may have been an external
reaction to his own internal battle with his own bisexuality.....

Woah! Woah! Woah! Woah!...Stop! Prince was never a bisexual, homosexual, or anything close! Where on earth did you dig that up from? It's nowhere near true!

[soulster]

I haven't come across his remarks about gay people. But I am intolerant toward intolerance. For somebody who drew celebrity from his open flogging of sexual mores, it's hard to understand how he could reconcile his opinion on the LGBTQ community. Especially from a man who identified with being sexually ambiguous to the point that he wore panties and assless pants during his performances earlier in his career.

Oral history: Prince's life, as told by the people who knew him best » [[link)

WENDY MELVOIN: We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in 2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I’m half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you’re converting to Jehovah. I was like: I guess we’ll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him. It was devastating to think we’ve kind of lost him.

[Jerry Oz]

I see. Many times, when people come to God, they try to make up for what they see to be their own shameful past by holding others to a much more rigid standard than they once ascribed toward themselves. He was clearly a freak in his early career. He penned some of the most overly sexual songs of the decade of the '80s. Not just for himself, but with songs like "Sugar Walls" by Sheena Easton and pretty much everything by Vanity/Appolonia 6. But he turned prudish later in life I guess. It sounds like Tipper Gore finally made him see the light.

[soulster]

I see. Many times, when people come to God, they try to make up for what they see to be their own shameful past by holding others to a much more rigid standard than they once ascribed toward themselves. He was clearly a freak in his early career. He penned some of the most overly sexual songs of the decade of the '80s. Not just for himself, but with songs like "Sugar Walls" by Sheena Easton and pretty much everything by Vanity/Appolonia 6. But he turned prudish later in life I guess. It sounds like Tipper Gore finally made him see the light.

Nothing. I repeat: NOTHING supports even the idea that he was ever gay or bi. Everything written, spoken, shown, or otherwise points to his always having been 100% straight.

Non-musicians and non-artists tend to interpret things they see and hear literally, based on their cultural biases. Just because an ARTIST writes certain lyrics does not mean they are writing about themselves. What the hell makes you think he was a freak, ever? Like a movie or TV actor, it was all an act. It's show biz!

This is probably why I don't get along too well with regular people, or the regular world, and eschew regular conventions and social rules. Y'all think to narrow. I am able to bend and twist my thinking in many ways.

[Jerry Oz]

I didn't say that he was gay. I called him a freak, which he was without apologies. A freak is kinky and/or promiscuous, which he either was or did a great job of pretending to be. They typically aren't the best ones to sit in a judgment seat regarding the sexuality of others. He even brought up the perception by asking "is he straight or is he gay" in the lyrics of "Controversy".

[marv2]

Nothing. I repeat: NOTHING supports even the idea that he was ever gay or bi. Everything written, spoken, shown, or otherwise points to his always having been 100% straight.

Non-musicians and non-artists tend to interpret things they see and hear literally, based on their cultural biases. Just because an ARTIST writes certain lyrics does not mean they are writing about themselves. What the hell makes you think he was a freak, ever? Like a movie or TV actor, it was all an act. It's show biz!

This is probably why I don't get along too well with regular people, or the regular world, and eschew regular conventions and social rules. Y'all think to narrow. I am able to bend and twist my thinking in many ways.

Prince wasn't gay, although my Dad and I thought he was the first time we saw him on American Bandstand one Saturday morning wearing panties, long boots and permed out hair LOL!!!!

[Guy]

Nothing. I repeat: NOTHING supports even the idea that he was ever gay or bi. Everything written, spoken, shown, or otherwise points to his always having been 100% straight.

When I first saw and heard him I thought he was gay. I have always loved groove-oriented, disco music and when I saw this flaming creature with Farrah Fawcett hair, scarves and jewelry wailing "I Wanna Be Your Lover" like Sylvester imitating Diana Ross, I thought for sure he was gay. He was certainly what was then called a 'sissy.' It was not lost on me that he played with the idea of his sexual orientation --"Am I black or white /am I straight or gay" -- with no resolution or direct answer. I got into him because of his flamboyance and sexual ambiguity. So I respectfully but firmly disagree that "nothing" about him supports the idea that he was gay or bi. Visual and aural evidence supports the mere idea that he was gay. Of course, I will never know for sure what he did behind closed doors.

[soulster]

When I first saw and heard him I thought he was gay. I have always loved groove-oriented, disco music and when I saw this flaming creature with Farrah Fawcett hair, scarves and jewelry wailing "I Wanna Be Your Lover" like Sylvester imitating Diana Ross, I thought for sure he was gay. He was certainly what was then called a 'sissy.' It was not lost on me that he played with the idea of his sexual orientation --"Am I black or white /am I straight or gay" -- with no resolution or direct answer. I got into him because of his flamboyance and sexual ambiguity. So I respectfully but firmly disagree that "nothing" about him supports the idea that he was gay or bi. Visual and aural evidence supports the mere idea that he was gay. Of course, I will never know for sure what he did behind closed doors.

I never for a minute thought he was gay. Never crossed my mind. It was so obvious he was straight and just trying to push people's buttons. It worked.

[soulster]

I didn't say that he was gay. I called him a freak, which he was without apologies. A freak is kinky and/or promiscuous, which he either was or did a great job of pretending to be. They typically aren't the best ones to sit in a judgment seat regarding the sexuality of others. He even brought up the perception by asking "is he straight or is he gay" in the lyrics of "Controversy".

He looked so ridiculous there was no way he was gay. I think a gay guy would have looked serious. But I understand. People judge others by the way they look and don't go any deeper.

[Roberta75]

And what if he was gay or bisexual. Who cares. He put out great music and put on great shows and thats all that matters. Unless someone here was in his bedroom weve no idea who Prince slept with and at the end of the day its his business IMO.Rod Stewart had pranced around in pink pants and acted real camp but has slept with many ladies. Has he ever slept with men? Ive no idea and its none of my business.Roberta

[Jerry Oz]

He looked so ridiculous there was no way he was gay. I think a gay guy would have looked serious. But I understand. People judge others by the way they look and don't go any deeper.

Look, it doesn't even matter. I can accept that he wasn't gay. But, his songs had ambiguous lyrics about it and he wore panties and high heels on stage. He never gave me the vibe that he was gay but he clearly was cool with androgyny, which is something that many ascribe to gay and/or bisexual culture. The point is that he was less of a prude when he started his career and even used the "danger" of man dressed in an effeminate manner to push boundaries and brand himself. It's therefore not unreasonable for that brand to be taken by many to mean that he was [[as someone stated earlier) a "sissy", if not gay.

[phil]

And what if he was gay or bisexual. Who cares. He put out great music and put on great shows and thats all that matters.

Wise words Roberta !

[soulster]

Look, it doesn't even matter. I can accept that he wasn't gay. But, his songs had ambiguous lyrics about it and he wore panties and high heels on stage. He never gave me the vibe that he was gay but he clearly was cool with androgyny, which is something that many ascribe to gay and/or bisexual culture. The point is that he was less of a prude when he started his career and even used the "danger" of man dressed in an effeminate manner to push boundaries and brand himself. It's therefore not unreasonable for that brand to be taken by many to mean that he was [[as someone stated earlier) a "sissy", if not gay.

You all are forgetting one thing: it's all "show biz"! An artist's lyrics aren't always autobiographical or in the first person. So, why do you guys assume Prince's lyrics are? The man was not gay. He was not bi. Straight men sometimes like to look effeminate.

It's pretty obvious that Prince was a fairly conservative kind of guy, and a religious one at that. There are published personal accounts from Wendy Melvoin about his intolerance of gays/lesbians, even though he worked with them and encouraged it for sales.

One thing's for sure: Prince was playing you all!

[Jerry Oz]

I never said that he was. I said he was a freak and that his lyrics and attire were ambiguous regarding his sexuality. Whether he was playing a role or not, he was a freak on stage and he portrayed himself as a freak. He sang about sex. He dressed women in nothing but camisoles and high heels and had them sing about sex. He stood defiantly before the PMRC and asserted his freakiness. He changed pop culture by the overt and bold nature of his lyrics and stage shows. He became conservative later in his life, but that doesn't mean that he was always that way. And I don't know how I was played when it didn't matter because I honestly don't and have never cared about it.

[soulster]

I never said that he was. I said he was a freak and that his lyrics and attire were ambiguous regarding his sexuality. Whether he was playing a role or not, he was a freak on stage and he portrayed himself as a freak. He sang about sex. He dressed women in nothing but camisoles and high heels and had them sing about sex. He stood defiantly before the PMRC and asserted his freakiness. He changed pop culture by the overt and bold nature of his lyrics and stage shows. He became conservative later in his life, but that doesn't mean that he was always that way. And I don't know how I was played when it didn't matter because I honestly don't and have never cared about it.

Show me where he ever testified in front of the PMRC and said he was a freak. Show me the transcripts. Frank Zappa was at that hearing. Dee Snyder was at that hearing. Prince never was.

Prince was always conservative. His intolerance for gays happened long before he became a Jehovah's Witness. he grew up as a Seventh-Day Adventist.

What is a freak, anyway? Is a freak obsessed with sex? Does a freak have indiscriminate sex? Does a freak have public sex? Or, is a "freak" just someone with a healthy libido?

I know you see things from a somewhat religious POV, but you have to be specific with your assertions. Otherwise, your allegations also come off as...ambiguous.

[Jerry Oz]

"Freak" is a subjective phrase and I already told you what my definition was. I'll avoid getting into a discussion about semantics. But performing with your ass cheeks exposed probably leads 99% of rational adults to believe it to be an apt description for him.

And when I said that he stood defiantly before Tipper and her crew, I meant more that he didn't stop making his music or marketing it the way that he wanted. If you took that to mean he testified, I apologize for using my words poorly. But he was at the forefront of their concerns. I'll look to see if he was conservative from the beginning but in the words of Rachel Dawes in "Batman Begins": "It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you."

[soulster]

"Freak" is a subjective phrase and I already told you what my definition was. I'll avoid getting into a discussion about semantics. But performing with your ass cheeks exposed probably leads 99% of rational adults to believe it to be an apt description for him.

Turns out that those ass-less chaps he wore were really a flesh-colored. So, no, his ass didn't flash. And, it still doesn't make you a "freak" to wear something like that.m BTW, David lee Roth was wearing real ass-less chaps long before Prince ever wore the fake ones.

Also, you did not survey all adults, and you would be hard-pressed to find 99% who would agree with your personal assessment.

And when I said that he stood defiantly before Tipper and her crew, I meant more that he didn't stop making his music or marketing it the way that he wanted. If you took that to mean he testified, I apologize for using my words poorly. But he was at the forefront of their concerns. I'll look to see if he was conservative from the beginning but in the words of Rachel Dawes in "Batman Begins": "It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you.

yeah, only if all you do is look at the superficial things.

I take it that you are not a longtime fan, but I am, and I follow facts enough to not make uninformed subjective judgements.

[splanky]

Prince was always conservative. His intolerance for gays happened long before he became a Jehovah's Witness. he grew up as a Seventh-Day Adventist.

The word I have a problem with here is "always"...I don't care about his beginnings or is final
days but what I've seen as factual is that at one time and I mean a very long one time Prince
was wild, nasty, freaky, flagrant and quite willing to flirt with ideas and portrayals far outside
of what most would consider average straight male behavoir. Can you imagine any two ballers today meeting up at a bar or club and one saying I decided to wear my lace panties
tonight?...And you know what? I really didn't care what Prince did because I was enjoying
his music too much. I figured he was handling his own personal life. So, in hindsight maybe
something happened, hell, maybe the death of his son played a part in him going back to
the beliefs he accepted in earlier days...BTW, "Freak" was a complement when I was young.
It didn't necessarily refer to sexuality all the time either. More so what is called swagger now.
It was lifestyle, as in the song The Freaks Come Out At Night...At 25 I was a freak and had a lot of fun doing it too....

[soulster]

The word I have a problem with here is "always"...I don't care about his beginnings or is final
days but what I've seen as factual is that at one time and I mean a very long one time Prince
was wild, nasty, freaky, flagrant and quite willing to flirt with ideas and portrayals far outside
of what most would consider average straight male behavoir. Can you imagine any two ballers today meeting up at a bar or club and one saying I decided to wear my lace panties
tonight?...And you know what? I really didn't care what Prince did because I was enjoying
his music too much. I figured he was handling his own personal life. So, in hindsight maybe
something happened, hell, maybe the death of his son played a part in him going back to
the beliefs he accepted in earlier days...BTW, "Freak" was a complement when I was young.
It didn't necessarily refer to sexuality all the time either. More so what is called swagger now.
It was lifestyle, as in the song The Freaks Come Out At Night...At 25 I was a freak and had a lot of fun doing it too....

It was all an act. Why do people assume that artists actually live their stage persona?

[splanky]

It was all an act. Why do people assume that artists actually live their stage persona?

I never believed all artists actually lived as their stage persona, in fact most don't. That said
most try to present something that they want you to believe they either represent, aspire
to or are capable of. Whether that be Maurice White's compassion and humanity[[ Phillip
Bailey said he fell short), George Clinton's alternating characters of Thinker and Party Animal
[[He was actually fairly good at the first til cocaine came along; as for the second , he couldn't
dance), or James Brown's Righteousness Super Bad Soul Brother [[He was/is and icon but face
it sometimes being seen as was more important than the being itself...) All I'm saying
is Prince's "act" if you want to call it that, came from SOMEWHERE~......To each it's reach...