Supremes-Beyond Myself

[smark21]

Is it possible that there may be confusion between the Bones Howe sessions in which Diana recorded Time and Love, Stoney End, Love's Angles, and The Interim that were shelved and vaulted [[and a couple of songs then went to the 5th Dimension, and the Time and Love track was given for Jean to sing on) and the Jimmy Webb project?

[pj1]

[QUOTE=Tossin and Turnin was not released in the states as a single. I Guess I'll Miss The Man was released as a single about the same time that PIPPIN premiered on Broadway. In fact, I think it was the first 45 that Motown released in stereo. It seemed out of place on the Jimmy Webb album]
Although Tossin' and Turnin' was not released as a single here in the U.S., I remember hearing it played several times on the radio [[at least in Pittsburgh) after the album was released. Perhaps one of the local dj's really liked the song or had connections to someone across the pond

[milven]

And didn't they also sing it on Merv Griffen? Maybe it was to be a single, but I'm glad it wasn't.

[luke]

I Keep It Hid is Mary's best performance on record IMO. An intelligent, very moving song sung beautifully. Webb sure knew how to produce her. 530 Plane could have bee a hit. Another extremely well written song with great crescendos. I find these songs much more interesting than Automatically Sunshine. Tossin, Cheap Lovin--ugh.

[topdiva1]

Milven - my sources are never fans - but those in high places.

[topdiva1]

Mary Wilson gave them hell on I Keep It Hide!!!!

[marv2]

It's so funny that near the end of the old forum, there was a discussion regarding the Supremes becoming stale and losing popularity because of the changing times. When they tried new things, they were criticized because they strayed from their "Supremes bag".

[jillfoster]

Ok.... miss know it all is going to chime in on this. What in the world makes you all think that the Jimmy Webb album is not commercial? In the 1970-74 time period, lush, choral arrangements were very popular in modern music, why not try it on the Supremes? A few examples:

[topdiva1]

Milven - trust and believe I have a great sources 0 thanks!!

[sup_fan]

i don't know if jean's "attitude" was a problem for the Webb recording sessions. but jean and mary were not kissin' cousin close. mary even states this in her book - that she increasingly had to reply on Cindy and their wardrobe mistress to help communicate with her. jean was NOT of the motown mindset - being a glamour girl in a pop confection entitled the supremes and towing the company line. that was more mary, diana and cindy. jean was outspoken, opinionated and definite ideas of who she was as a singer and how she wanted to be presented. those ideas did not sit well with motown which is why gordy wanted to replace her. so by 72, there was tension between mary and jean. this isn't to say they were hurling high heels at each other every minute but there were definite issues within the framework of the group.

Cindy left right when floy joy was released. although the album and lead single did well, auto sunshine and YWSSL were not huge hits. I'm guessing here but i think the management was like "ok - we tried the frank wilson approach and that worked ok for a couple years but trailed off. then we tried smokey and that worked at first but it too trailed off. let's try something else" I believe Wayne Weisbert, their current manager, was responsible for hooking them up with Jimmy. I too agree with many of the comments on here and feel that the end product, though a valiant effort, just didn't work as well. plus the group and the members had started to drift from the mainstream public eye and so a random shot in the dark is even less likely to work then. you can try something that radical when you're white hot but it's very hard when you're on the slide down

And topdiva, sorry, i have to disagree with u regarding Diana and Jimmy. this was done during mid 72, a time when she was buried in Billie Holiday and the movie. she was doing very little outside of that

[gordy_hunk]

Tossin and Turnin was not released in the states as a single. I Guess I'll Miss The Man was released as a single about the same time that PIPPIN premiered on Broadway. In fact, I think it was the first 45 that Motown released in stereo. It seemed out of place on the Jimmy Webb album

Not everyone lives in the US. I stand by my comments - 'Tossin and turnin' was released as a single here, and it failed to make an entry in the Top 75.

[milven]

Milven - my sources are never fans - but those in high places.

And who are those in high places? Curious minds want to know

Milven - trust and believe I have a great sources 0 thanks!!

Trust but verify. I have great sources too. Mary's book, Berry's book, Diana's book, Tony's book, Soul Magazine, Jet Magazine, Ebony and of course, the little old lady who lived in the shoe. She, like you, had so many sources, she did not know what to do.

[milven]

Not everyone lives in the US. I stand by my comments - 'Tossin and turnin' was released as a single here, and it failed to make an entry in the Top 75.

That's why I went out of my way to specify that it was "not released in the states as a single". I was not sure if it was released elsewhere as a single. Thanks for clarifying. Nevertheless, I think that it was a poor choice as a single here, there, or anywhere.

[sup_fan]

i thought tossin was kinda a fun track. their live version really was good. Lynda did some kickass backgrounds on the live at japan set. again, would have preferred no blossoms but oh well.

[jobeterob]

I'm often on the top of a mountain. Would I be a friend in high places?

I have friends that live in very low places that have a reasonable opinion of themselves, but not high - and they are friends, as in personal friends, with Diana Ross. They have a very low opinion of some of what is allowed on SD and a lower opinion of the character of some of the posters. One of them recently privately asked me if I thought any of our posters were doing so from a jail cell! I said I didn't think so other than the limited "cell" of their heads.

This is a post that will not get me many friend requests, right?

[Glenpwood]

Most of the stuff on the forum [[or almost any music forum on the internet) falls into three categories.

1) Positive comments and thoughts coming from fans.

2) Negative comments from people feeding off misinformation from other sources and sensationalized gossip that cannot be confirmed and usually just posted to get a rise out of other board members.

3) Lastly, members being too sensitive of people having an critical opinion of an artists work [[particulary one they are a die hard fan of) or a posters sense of humor being misconstrued as mean spirited.

Folks who read these boards just have to remember they can take the good they find here and leave the rest. We are blessed to have people like Ralph, Deke, George, Andy, and Susaye to come around and contribute and can understand why a lot of other Motowners wouldn't. I imagine it'd be like getting a daily job review and having to justify their actions during events from decades ago to hundreds of people and never pleasing them all. As for the folks posting from jail, I bet peoples opinions of them would change fast if they knew where some unreleased material from the Temps/Tops/Supremes/Vandellas were stashed....

[marybrewster]

I'm often on the top of a mountain. Would I be a friend in high places?

I have friends that live in very low places that have a reasonable opinion of themselves, but not high - and they are friends, as in personal friends, with Diana Ross. They have a very low opinion of some of what is allowed on SD and a lower opinion of the character of some of the posters. One of them recently privately asked me if I thought any of our posters were doing so from a jail cell! I said I didn't think so other than the limited "cell" of their heads.

This is a post that will not get me many friend requests, right?

Do they ever question your posts, rob?

[milven]

I Keep It Hid is Mary's best performance on record IMO.....

Has Mary ever included this song in any of her solo shows?

[topdiva1]

Just gave this a revisit - it remains - interesting and yet hard to listen too - a real mixed bag of conflict - which most likely was well suited to The Supremes at this latter stage.

[robbert]

I honestly never heard that the Jimmy Webb songs were intended for Diana. I don't know everything...But all the original tape boxes have The Supremes written on them. There are other tape boxes that have Diana's name on them like "Don't Leave Me This Way" and several tracks from Martha's Black Magic LP.

Thanks for your always invaluable comments, George.
I'll give Black Magic another spin to try and figure out which ones of the tracks could've been meant for Diana... or do you know them by heart?
So Black Magic after all was a sort of 'left over', a 'crumb off the table' for Martha? That would explain why it is such an unbalanced album. Poor Martha must have felt terrible to be put in Diana's shadow so bluntly.