Jean Terrell and Motown

**luke** · 12-23-2015, 01:24 AM

I just watched Jean and Smokey sing Someday...and it made me wonder considering Jean's amazing talent if they made any attempt to keep her from leaving. Was she too "headstrong" for Motown? I assume her contract was up in 1973.

**marv2** · 12-23-2015, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by luke

I just watched Jean and Smokey sing Someday...and it made me wonder considering Jean's amazing talent if they made any attempt to keep her from leaving. Was she too "headstrong" for Motown? I assume her contract was up in 1973.

I don't think they made any real attempt and they were crazy to let her go! Jean was one of the best female vocalists to ever record for Motown. Stories over the years have tried to paint her as headstrong, uncooperative etc,etc. but the truth is Motown frustrated her as they did so many others.

Jean and Smokey singing Someday backed by Mary and Cindy is music made in Heaven!

**jaybs** · 12-23-2015, 06:35 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN7BRBuIOuw

**Bluebrock** · 12-23-2015, 07:43 AM

I have heard the stories about Jean being difficult. She certainly gave Mary some sleepless nights but a reliable source told me that Jean was greatly frustrated at always living in Diana's shadow and certain promises made to her were not fulfilled. I don't wish to go into it too deeply but I will say that few tears were shed when Jean quit the group. It is a great pity because Jean was immensely talented and she may have fared better as a solo artist.Her work with the Supremes remains magnificent and I have nothing but total respect for this ladies talent.

**mowest** · 12-23-2015, 12:43 PM

"Jean and Smokey singing Someday backed by Mary and Cindy is music made in Heaven!"

Where can this be heard? Thanks.

**marv2** · 12-23-2015, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by mowest

"Jean and Smokey singing Someday backed by Mary and Cindy is music made in Heaven!"

Where can this be heard? Thanks.

This is the best video available online:

**mowest** · 12-23-2015, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

This is the best video available online:

Thanks, marv2, for posting this. Don't know how I missed it the first time around! Great performances by all.

**luke** · 12-23-2015, 01:47 PM

A lot of people have spoken about missing it when it was broadcast .

**marv2** · 12-23-2015, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by luke

A lot of people have spoken about missing it when it was broadcast .

I was lucky to see it when it aired in December 1970. Motown gave us a lot for Christmas that year! I always wondered why they never released a soundtrack album for this great show.

**luke** · 12-23-2015, 01:56 PM

Makes me wish Mary and Cindy had been on the original recording! Mary wearing the only green.. Did Diana wear it before ? Was this purposely to single Mary out? Or size issue? Where was other Miracle??

**bradsupremes** · 12-23-2015, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Makes me wish Mary and Cindy had been on the original recording! Mary wearing the only green.. Did Diana wear it before ? Was this purposely to single Mary out? Or size issue? Where was other Miracle??

It was a size issue. On a lot of the gowns, Jean wore Cindy's, Cindy wore Mary's and Mary wore Diana's. Now, there were a few instances where Jean did wear Diana's like the yellow bugle bead pantsuit and the silver to bronze sequin/beaded gowns. If that was the case then I would assume Jean could have fit into the green one. I doubt Diana's size changed that much if at all. Maybe the waist was just a bit too uncomfortably tight on Jean? Unfortunately those pantsuits were lost in the fire in Mexico back in 1974 so we don't know the waist size.

When Scherrie and Susaye entered the picture, Mary still wore Diana's while they [[Scherrie and Susaye) wore Mary and Cindy's. Not sure why Mary didn't wear her own gowns as Scherrie and Susaye were much more smaller and petite and probably could have fit into Diana's better. Susaye swam in Cindy's old gowns and those gowns were greatly cut and altered.

**Roberta75** · 12-23-2015, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

It was a size issue. On a lot of the gowns, Jean wore Cindy's, Cindy wore Mary's and Mary wore Diana's. Now, there were a few instances where Jean did wear Diana's like the yellow bugle bead pantsuit and the silver to bronze sequin/beaded gowns. If that was the case then I would assume Jean could have fit into the green one. I doubt Diana's size changed that much if at all. Maybe the waist was just a bit too uncomfortably tight on Jean? Unfortunately those pantsuits were lost in the fire in Mexico back in 1974 so we don't know the waist size.

When Scherrie and Susaye entered the picture, Mary still wore Diana's while they [[Scherrie and Susaye) wore Mary and Cindy's. Not sure why Mary didn't wear her own gowns as Scherrie and Susaye were much more smaller and petite and probably could have fit into Diana's better. Susaye swam in Cindy's old gowns and those gowns were greatly cut and altered.

Maybe Mary felt closer to Diane by wearing her gowns and it kept Diane a part of the group for Mary.

fondlty,

Roberta

**marv2** · 12-23-2015, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Maybe Mary felt closer to Diane by wearing her gowns and it kept Diane a part of the group for Mary.

fondlty,

Roberta

I don't think that was ever a thought.

**rod_rick** · 12-23-2015, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by bradsupremes

It was a size issue. On a lot of the gowns, Jean wore Cindy's, Cindy wore Mary's and Mary wore Diana's. Now, there were a few instances where Jean did wear Diana's like the yellow bugle bead pantsuit and the silver to bronze sequin/beaded gowns. If that was the case then I would assume Jean could have fit into the green one. I doubt Diana's size changed that much if at all. Maybe the waist was just a bit too uncomfortably tight on Jean? Unfortunately those pantsuits were lost in the fire in Mexico back in 1974 so we don't know the waist size.

When Scherrie and Susaye entered the picture, Mary still wore Diana's while they [[Scherrie and Susaye) wore Mary and Cindy's. Not sure why Mary didn't wear her own gowns as Scherrie and Susaye were much more smaller and petite and probably could have fit into Diana's better. Susaye swam in Cindy's old gowns and those gowns were greatly cut and altered.

More than likely Diana;s gowns were already altered to fit Mary so they just altered 2 instead of all 3.

**daviddh** · 12-23-2015, 04:13 PM

I think Jean had 2 more years on her contract with Motown. not sure exactly but when Scherrie joined she couldn't record with them because of a contract issue, not positive but I think she was still under contract with another label and they had to wait it out. as a result no supremes album 1973 or 74. a hits album with Jean called Gold was planned but cancelled after Bad Weather failed. note that BG wanted to manage the supremes twice but MW told him NO but then complained Motown wasn't doing anything for them.

**Roberta75** · 12-23-2015, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by daviddh

I think Jean had 2 more years on her contract with Motown. not sure exactly but when Scherrie joined she couldn't record with them because of a contract issue, not positive but I think she was still under contract with another label and they had to wait it out. as a result no supremes album 1973 or 74. a hits album with Jean called Gold was planned but cancelled after Bad Weather failed. note that BG wanted to manage the supremes twice but MW told him NO but then complained Motown wasn't doing anything for them.

Motown did plenty for them IMO. the 70s Supremes was all over TV as YouTube has now proved. Anyways its 45 years later and all water under the bridge now.

Roberta

**luke** · 12-23-2015, 05:18 PM

Never heard about Gordy wanting to manage the Suoremes then.

**marv2** · 12-23-2015, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Motown did plenty for them IMO. the 70s Supremes was all over TV as YouTube has now proved. Anyways its 45 years later and all water under the bridge now.

Roberta

In YOUR opinion! According to the ladies themselves.......they did not!

**marv2** · 12-23-2015, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Never heard about Gordy wanting to manage the Suoremes then.

He mentioned it once after he saw movement on "Let My Heart Do the Walking". What was Mary going to do? Fire her husband? Get outta dodge! LOL!!!

**Jimi LaLumia** · 12-23-2015, 05:49 PM

according to all accounts, when the boss did not have his wish granted [[Syretta was his wish for whatever reason) he said that he 'washed his hands of the group', nothing sneaky or under handed, he made the statement and he apparently lived up to it.. so the Gordy touch and/or occasional 'intervention' was taken off the table.. they still bought ads in the trades, booked them onto plenty of tv shows [[they were on Soul Train a lot, and the Ed Sullivan Show going off the air certainly hurt them as well as early 70's solo Ross , Sullivan had been the merchandise show room through the 60's..)

**marv2** · 12-23-2015, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

according to all accounts, when the boss did not have his wish granted [[Syretta was his wish for whatever reason) he said that he 'washed his hands of the group', nothing sneaky or under handed, he made the statement and he apparently lived up to it.. so the Gordy touch and/or occasional 'intervention' was taken off the table.. they still bought ads in the trades, booked them onto plenty of tv shows [[they were on Soul Train a lot, and the Ed Sullivan Show going off the air certainly hurt them as well as early 70's solo Ross , Sullivan had been the merchandise show room through the 60's..)

With all that, they still were the most successful female group of the 70s!

**Bluebrock** · 12-23-2015, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

With all that, they still were the most successful female group of the 70s!

They certainly were Marv. At least in the States but the competition wasn't as strong in the 70's for female groups as it was in the 80's and 90's. The Three Degrees stole the Supremes thunder in the UK but for whatever reason didn't last in the USA. Best regards.

**daviddh** · 12-23-2015, 08:22 PM

i still think they did well in the 70s. I think the loss of Frank Wilson as producer hurt them, who decided this??? Jean did a great job with them and Lynda was a good addition. Motown closing Detroit location was also a blow not only to the Supremes but to everyone. the only thing BG cared about was making movies. one by one they all left year after year until only the big three were left, then DR left.

**luke** · 12-23-2015, 08:24 PM

I thought the 70s Supremes did quite well in UK. Didn't Soned Love go to 3 and Nathan Jones top 10?

**marv2** · 12-23-2015, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Makes me wish Mary and Cindy had been on the original recording! Mary wearing the only green.. Did Diana wear it before ? Was this purposely to single Mary out? Or size issue? Where was other Miracle??

Smokey states that Pete Moore was injured playing basketball as the reason he does not appear on this special.

**REDHOT** · 12-23-2015, 10:17 PM

Me and Marv disagree on this,and we're still cool,Jean Terrell was a pain in the you know what,she didn't get alone with anyone,sure she was a great talent,with a great voice,but a very moody person,no one was gonna put up with Jean's different moods,not Berry Gordy,the promoters,and not Mary Wilson and the other Supremes,Jean could have been great,after she left The Supremes,but she didn't want it,she was done with Show Business,wanted nothing to do with it,i'v said this many times,what a great body of work,Jean had with The Supremes.

**luke** · 12-23-2015, 10:35 PM

Thanks Marv for Miracle info

**marv2** · 12-24-2015, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Thanks Marv for Miracle info

You're welcome Luke. Merry Christmas!

**luke** · 12-24-2015, 02:09 PM

Thx. Same to you Marv!

**Bluebrock** · 12-24-2015, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by luke

I thought the 70s Supremes did quite well in UK. Didn't Soned Love go to 3 and Nathan Jones top 10?

Yes they did do well in the UK for a while, Stoned Love went top 3. Nathan Jones top 5. Up the ladder no.6, whilst Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine both went top 10, but the Three Degrees did even better than that, but its all immaterial now.

**Bluebrock** · 12-24-2015, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

Me and Marv disagree on this,and we're still cool,Jean Terrell was a pain in the you know what,she didn't get alone with anyone,sure she was a great talent,with a great voice,but a very moody person,no one was gonna put up with Jean's different moods,not Berry Gordy,the promoters,and not Mary Wilson and the other Supremes,Jean could have been great,after she left The Supremes,but she didn't want it,she was done with Show Business,wanted nothing to do with it,i'v said this many times,what a great body of work,Jean had with The Supremes.

Jean was indeed difficult, but she was not on her own. It was not all entirely her fault but i do not wish to start WW3 by dredging up stories that are over 40 years old. She could, and should have behaved in a more professional manner , but she was let down badly by certain people and as such basically lost the will to continue. Sad but true.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 12-24-2015, 05:28 PM

Three Degrees had more charted singles in the UK than the 70's Supremes, but in terms of BIG hits, Top 20 hits, both groups had 7 each, so in that regard, Top 20 chart placings, it's a tie..

**Bluebrock** · 12-24-2015, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

Three Degrees had more charted singles in the UK than the 70's Supremes, but in terms of BIG hits, Top 20 hits, both groups had 7 each, so in that regard, Top 20 chart placings, it's a tie..

Fair point, but i think The Three Degrees enjoyed 1 x no.1 and 1 x no.2 as well as more smaller hits so technically i believe i am correct in my original summing up.

**Bluebrock** · 12-24-2015, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

Three Degrees had more charted singles in the UK than the 70's Supremes, but in terms of BIG hits, Top 20 hits, both groups had 7 each, so in that regard, Top 20 chart placings, it's a tie..

Jimi - just double checked. The Supremes had 6 top 20 UK hits whilst The Three Degrees had 7, but i was incorrect when i said claimed they reached no,2 with Woman in love. It only reached no.3, but "when will i see you again" was of course a UK no.1.

**daviddh** · 12-24-2015, 06:22 PM

i suppose Jean and Flo had something in common. they both felt let down by Motown . one day the truth will come out but for now I will just enjoy the music they made. just wish we had more supremes 70s stuff with Jean. maybe the 70's Lost and Found will tidy up whats left. I know they did some more work with Frank Wilson in early 73[[Love Train) and a few other tracks. a left over from Floy Joy is in the vaults as well plus all the other out takes.keep our fingers crossed for this

**Bluebrock** · 12-24-2015, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by daviddh

i suppose Jean and Flo had something in common. they both felt let down by Motown . one day the truth will come out but for now I will just enjoy the music they made. just wish we had more supremes 70s stuff with Jean. maybe the 70's Lost and Found will tidy up whats left. I know they did some more work with Frank Wilson in early 73[[Love Train) and a few other tracks. a left over from Floy Joy is in the vaults as well plus all the other out takes.keep our fingers crossed for this

I have heard there is enough material to make a 2cd lost and found. It's very frustrating knowing there is so much unheard material gathering dust in the vaults, Universal don't seem to think there is a market for these songs. How wrong they are on so many counts.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 12-24-2015, 09:43 PM

ok.. but from a technical point, the Supremes name, minus Jean, had a 7th UK Top 10 in the 1970's, when the original "Baby Love" was re issued as a single,to promote a "Greatest Hits" album, and the re issued single peaked at #12 in August of 1974..Merry Christmas!!

**marv2** · 12-24-2015, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

Yes they did do well in the UK for a while, Stoned Love went top 3. Nathan Jones top 5. Up the ladder no.6, whilst Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine both went top 10, but the Three Degrees did even better than that, but its all immaterial now.

Exactly what songs by the Three Degrees charted higher in the U.K. than those mentioned by the Supremes?

**Jimi LaLumia** · 12-25-2015, 06:42 AM

In the UK When Will I See You Again went to #1, the Degrees also went to #13 "Year Of Decision",#9 "Take Good Care Of Yourself",#12 Givin Up Givin In",#3 "Woman In Love",#10 The Runner, and #9 My Simple Heart in the 1970's, so yeah, UK loved them..but they kept recording through 1979 so they had that advantage, there was no period of studio inactivity

**Bluebrock** · 12-25-2015, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Exactly what songs by the Three Degrees charted higher in the U.K. than those mentioned by the Supremes?

The Three Degrees had 10 top 40 UK hits as well as several other minor hits. The biggest being "when will i see you again" which was a UK no.1. The 2nd biggest being "woman in love" [[not the Streisand song) which reached no.3 tying with the 70's Supremes biggest UK hit "stoned love" which also hit no.3. Merry Christmas!!

**Jimi LaLumia** · 12-25-2015, 06:44 AM

apparently "Let My Heart Do The Walking" did nothing over there on the main singles chart

**Bluebrock** · 12-25-2015, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

ok.. but from a technical point, the Supremes name, minus Jean, had a 7th UK Top 10 in the 1970's, when the original "Baby Love" was re issued as a single,to promote a "Greatest Hits" album, and the re issued single peaked at #12 in August of 1974..Merry Christmas!!

Good point Jimi but the 1976 reissue of "baby love" was billed as Diana Ross and the Supremes!! Merry Christmas to you too my friend!!!

**Bluebrock** · 12-25-2015, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

apparently "Let My Heart Do The Walking" did nothing over there on the main singles chart

No it didn't but i think the main reason was because Mary had fallen out with the BBC the year before whilst promoting "he's my man". As a result the BBC did not put the follow up single "early morning love" on the radio 1 playlist. They had heavily played "he's my man". Indeed Tony Blackburn had it as his record of the week, but after the disagreement the BBC stopped supporting the Supremes and all subsequent singles were not playlisted and they were not invited back on to "top of the pops" or other variety shows to promote their singles.

**marv2** · 12-25-2015, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

The Three Degrees had 10 top 40 UK hits as well as several other minor hits. The biggest being "when will i see you again" which was a UK no.1. The 2nd biggest being "woman in love" [[not the Streisand song) which reached no.3 tying with the 70's Supremes biggest UK hit "stoned love" which also hit no.3. Merry Christmas!!

They came no where close to the Supremes accomplishments here in the U.S. I believe they had only 1 number one record here and most have never heard of the group.

**luke** · 12-25-2015, 10:43 AM

What was this falling out about??

**daviddh** · 12-25-2015, 01:42 PM

Let My Heart Do The Walking was a tremendous return to form for them. great track. it should have been bigger but it did hang in there on Billboard for 13 weeks, kind of a slow burner.

**luke** · 12-25-2015, 02:13 PM

I'm sure Mary's friendships with Dick Clark, Don Cornelius etc helped get them booked on TV. She was highly regarded by many in the industry.

**Bluebrock** · 12-25-2015, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

They came no where close to the Supremes accomplishments here in the U.S. I believe they had only 1 number one record here and most have never heard of the group.

I know that. After leaving Philly they had a couple of stagnant years before returning with great success in the late 70's. Their career kind of died in the States due in no small way to the ladies basing themselves in Europe, They made some great songs and were excellent on the live circuit but they could never replace the Supremes in my heart.

**Bluebrock** · 12-25-2015, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by luke

What was this falling out about??

It's perhaps best not to go into too much detail , especially at this time of year but lets just say that during this particular tour the Supremes were not at their best and Mary knew it but did not approve of being told by certain people. Let' s remain positive. Merry Christmas!